Don't Ask, Don't Tell repealed
whygohome
Posts: 2,305
Congratulations to all those who want to serve their country and who are now able to do so. Now, all we have to do is grant these individuals - those that love their fellow man or woman - the basic human right to be happy and to marry whomever they like.
http://www.npr.org/2010/12/18/132164172 ... tal-hurdle
Senate Votes To Repeal 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'
by The Associated Press
December 18, 2010
In a landmark for gay rights, the U.S. Senate on Saturday voted to let gays serve openly in the military, giving President Barack Obama the chance to fulfill a campaign promise and repeal the 17-year policy known as "don't ask, don't tell.''
Obama was expected to sign it next week, although the change wouldn't take immediate effect. The legislation says the president and his top military advisers must certify that lifting the ban won't hurt troops' fighting ability. After that, there's a 60-day waiting period for the military.
"It is time to close this chapter in our history,'' Obama said in a statement after a test vote cleared the way for final action. "It is time to recognize that sacrifice, valor and integrity are no more defined by sexual orientation than they are by race or gender, religion or creed.''
The Senate vote was 65-31. The House had passed an identical version of the bill, 250-175, on Wednesday.
Repeal would mean that, for the first time in American history, gays would be openly accepted by the military and could acknowledge their sexual orientation without fear of being kicked out.
More than 13,500 service members have been dismissed under the 1993 law that forced gay men and women in the military to hide their sexual identity.
Rounding up a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate was a historic victory for Obama, who made repeal a campaign promise in 2008. It also was a political triumph for congressional Democrats who struggled in the final hours of the postelection session to overcome Republican objections on several legislative priorities before Republicans regain control of the House in January.
It is time to recognize that sacrifice, valor and integrity are no more defined by sexual orientation than they are by race or gender, religion or creed.- President Obama
"As Barry Goldwater said, 'You don't have to be straight to shoot straight,''' said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, referring to the late Republican senator from Arizona.
Sen. John McCain, Obama's Republican rival in 2008, led the opposition. The Arizona Republican acknowledged he didn't have the votes to stop the bill and he blamed elite liberals with no military experience for pushing their social agenda on troops during wartime.
"They will do what is asked of them,'' McCain said of service members. "But don't think there won't be a great cost.''
In the end, six Republican senators broke with their party on the procedural vote to let the bill move ahead and swung behind repeal after a recent Pentagon study concluded the ban could be lifted without hurting the ability of troops to fight.
Advocacy groups who lobbied hard for repeal hailed the vote as a significant step forward in gay rights. The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network called the issue the "defining civil rights initiative of this decade.''
Supporters of repeal filled the visitor seats overlooking the Senate floor, ready to protest had the bill failed.
"This has been a long fought battle, but this failed and discriminatory law will now be history,'' said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign.
The Pentagon study found that two-thirds of service members didn't think changing the law would have much of an effect. But of those who did predict negative consequences, a majority were assigned to combat arms units. Nearly 60 percent of the Marine Corps and Army combat units, such as infantry and special operations, said in the survey they thought repealing the law would hurt their units' ability to fight.
The Pentagon's uniformed chiefs are divided on whether this resistance might pose serious problems.
Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos has said he thinks lifting the ban during wartime could cost lives.
"I don't want to lose any Marines to the distraction,'' he told reporters this week. "I don't want to have any Marines that I'm visiting at Bethesda [Naval Medical Center] with no legs be the result of any type of distraction.''
Adm. Mike Mullen and Marine Gen. James Cartwright, the chairman and vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, respectively, have said the fear of disruption is overblown. They note the Pentagon's finding that 92 percent of troops who believe they have served with a gay person saw no effect on their units' morale or effectiveness. Among Marines in combat roles who said they have served alongside a gay person, 84 percent said there was no impact.
http://www.npr.org/2010/12/18/132164172 ... tal-hurdle
Senate Votes To Repeal 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'
by The Associated Press
December 18, 2010
In a landmark for gay rights, the U.S. Senate on Saturday voted to let gays serve openly in the military, giving President Barack Obama the chance to fulfill a campaign promise and repeal the 17-year policy known as "don't ask, don't tell.''
Obama was expected to sign it next week, although the change wouldn't take immediate effect. The legislation says the president and his top military advisers must certify that lifting the ban won't hurt troops' fighting ability. After that, there's a 60-day waiting period for the military.
"It is time to close this chapter in our history,'' Obama said in a statement after a test vote cleared the way for final action. "It is time to recognize that sacrifice, valor and integrity are no more defined by sexual orientation than they are by race or gender, religion or creed.''
The Senate vote was 65-31. The House had passed an identical version of the bill, 250-175, on Wednesday.
Repeal would mean that, for the first time in American history, gays would be openly accepted by the military and could acknowledge their sexual orientation without fear of being kicked out.
More than 13,500 service members have been dismissed under the 1993 law that forced gay men and women in the military to hide their sexual identity.
Rounding up a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate was a historic victory for Obama, who made repeal a campaign promise in 2008. It also was a political triumph for congressional Democrats who struggled in the final hours of the postelection session to overcome Republican objections on several legislative priorities before Republicans regain control of the House in January.
It is time to recognize that sacrifice, valor and integrity are no more defined by sexual orientation than they are by race or gender, religion or creed.- President Obama
"As Barry Goldwater said, 'You don't have to be straight to shoot straight,''' said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, referring to the late Republican senator from Arizona.
Sen. John McCain, Obama's Republican rival in 2008, led the opposition. The Arizona Republican acknowledged he didn't have the votes to stop the bill and he blamed elite liberals with no military experience for pushing their social agenda on troops during wartime.
"They will do what is asked of them,'' McCain said of service members. "But don't think there won't be a great cost.''
In the end, six Republican senators broke with their party on the procedural vote to let the bill move ahead and swung behind repeal after a recent Pentagon study concluded the ban could be lifted without hurting the ability of troops to fight.
Advocacy groups who lobbied hard for repeal hailed the vote as a significant step forward in gay rights. The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network called the issue the "defining civil rights initiative of this decade.''
Supporters of repeal filled the visitor seats overlooking the Senate floor, ready to protest had the bill failed.
"This has been a long fought battle, but this failed and discriminatory law will now be history,'' said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign.
The Pentagon study found that two-thirds of service members didn't think changing the law would have much of an effect. But of those who did predict negative consequences, a majority were assigned to combat arms units. Nearly 60 percent of the Marine Corps and Army combat units, such as infantry and special operations, said in the survey they thought repealing the law would hurt their units' ability to fight.
The Pentagon's uniformed chiefs are divided on whether this resistance might pose serious problems.
Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos has said he thinks lifting the ban during wartime could cost lives.
"I don't want to lose any Marines to the distraction,'' he told reporters this week. "I don't want to have any Marines that I'm visiting at Bethesda [Naval Medical Center] with no legs be the result of any type of distraction.''
Adm. Mike Mullen and Marine Gen. James Cartwright, the chairman and vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, respectively, have said the fear of disruption is overblown. They note the Pentagon's finding that 92 percent of troops who believe they have served with a gay person saw no effect on their units' morale or effectiveness. Among Marines in combat roles who said they have served alongside a gay person, 84 percent said there was no impact.
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Comments
This is very good news. See, things CAN get done in washington when you threaten the senators that they will stay in session and miss their vacation...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Yes, but now I am curious to see how Brown, Snowe, Murkowski and the others who voted for repeal will be treated by their Republican colleagues.
When Brown and a few others supported the President's Jobs Bill, Brown was bombarded with criticism and death threats.
All in all, I think the "hoopla" will fade, and the backlash against those that I've mentioned will not be significant. But, we will have to wait and see.
Here you go:
http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/vo ... f=politics
8 Republicans voted in favor of repeal. Burr's vote of 'Aye' surprises me.
John McCain is a shriveled old prick.
was he violated as a pow?
was one of his fellow airmen not so secretly fond of him?
even if he was, if he was as patriotic as he claims to be he should be the first one in line to stand up for equal rights for all people serving this country...
talk about pandering to your alleged base....it makes me absolutely sick...
imagine how if the mccain of today had won in 2008 and this senate was exactly the same pulling for this repeal. would mccain have come forward as president and opposed it? and perhaps vetoed it? and if so, what would his reasoning be????
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
John McCain DADT Repeal Reaction: 'Today Is A Very Sad Day'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/1 ... 98726.html
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), once a voice of optimism for repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, reportedly called Saturday "a very sad day" before the Senate voted to lift the military ban.
"I hope that when we pass this legislation that we will understand that we are doing great damage," said the four-term incumbent before the vote, according to ABC News. "Today is a very sad day."
Back in 2006, the longtime senator communicated a distinctly different view on the issue. "The day that the leadership of the military comes to me and says, 'Senator, we ought to change the policy,' then I think we ought to consider seriously changing it," he said at the time.
Both Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen released statements on Saturday welcoming the Senate's landmark vote to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell as positive news.
A Pentagon study released earlier this month suggested that repealing the military ban would not adversely affect the troops. Nevertheless, McCain dismissed the report as flawed.
HuffPost's Mark Blumenthal reported on the Republican senator's criticism at the time:
Speaking at a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, McCain complained about the survey's sample size and response and coverage rates: ... Does this criticism have merit? Not according to the standards of modern survey research and the detailed description of the methodology included in the Defense Department's survey report.
According to Politifact, a non-partisan organization, the perceived position-shift made by McCain on the issue of repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell can be considered a "full flop":
Three years ago, McCain said that he would "consider seriously changing " should the administration's top brass say it was a good idea. On Feb. 2, 2010, those officials showed up in McCain's committee room and said just that. Yet McCain's statements -- reiterated by Buchanan -- make it clear he hasn't budged. So we rate this a Full Flop.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I'm 36, and I don't think I personally know one person around my age who is against repealing this law (or even gay marriage). A couple generations from now when the old, anti-gay crowd is pretty much gone, it will be names like John McCain, which will be shown as the example of people who were behind the times, like Strom Thurmond and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
I've never served in the military, but seeing what we ask these young men and women to endure - the stress, the danger, the heat, the unsanitary conditions, the time away form families, etc... If they can handle most of that, I'm pretty damn certain that they can handle knowing that they have a gay guy in their tent... chances are they knew the guy was gay anyhow.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Fags in the military.....PVT is that a gun your pocket or did you just get out of the showers.
shriveled up old white dude.
Godfather.
oh and can someone please inform the biggots that it's not only men who are gay.
all of the negativity i have read regarding this seems to be directed at gay men joining the military.
the other thing i find completely amusing is that they seem to feel threatened by this. what actually makes them think a gay man would be interested in them anyway? chances are they aren't that awesome.
Yes, but it still cannot marry the one it loves.
i am pretty sure she is hetero tho..i read that she dumped her long time boyfriend a couple of months ago in rolling stone...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
then why are homosexuals always referred to as the gay and lesbian community? a bit redundant, isn't it?
as far as the original topic...i've always had a hard time understanding why someones sexual preference needs to be known in the military. personally, sex doesn't need to be discussed in those situations. so i guess you can say i'm a fan of don't ask, don't tell.......but have it apply to everyone. if you're joining the military, or are already enlisted, there's no need to say whether or not you're gay or straight. just do the job.
But it's (was) a double standard... sex doesn't need to be discussed in any situation, but straight guys can put a picture of their girlfriend above their bunk... straight guys can tell their buddies that they are going to visit their girlfriend when the get leave... straight guys can brag (like young guys are bound to do) about past "conquests", etc etc etc... with don't ask don't tell in place a gay guy pretty much had to avoid all of these conversations or just lie to appear straight... that is just plain stupid.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Godfather.
next thing ya know the gay's will want pink silk camo's
but the lsebians will be good with the tradional mens clothing....they're probably more man then the gays anyway
.....we're still joking right ?????
Godfather.
Godfather.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I can see trouble coming with this one, beatings , harassment or worse.
Godfather.
For what it's worth, one of my close friends at work is gay and she complains that she can never figure out what she's supposed to call herself because someone's always changing the terms (she gave up on the LGBT groups when the Q, I, and S got thrown in there because she could never remember what anything stood for).
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
That would be grotesque;but hey, we're dealing with humans, so nothing would shock me.
I just want the damn kids to come home - black, white, asian, gay, straight - just bring them home!
I would hope so ,but with all the young new recruits and the ol' salty dogs already in place the human element is not always what we would hope for especially in a war situation where tempers and rational thought might not be so understanding, I still stand by the "don't ask don't tell" policy and come to think of it why is it so important for gays to have this ruling knowing full well that it could be a disaster for some of them ?
Godfather.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I hope you are right, and in my posts I was being sarcastic I don't think that the military would allow such things as cross dressers and Richard Simmons types to dance around in a swishy manor, in the end it is what it is and hopefully people will respect each other.
Godfather.
Godfather.
I never really understood what people were afraid of. Are hetero soldiers afraid that a gay soldier is going to assualt them in the barracks, or in the washroom at the officers club? If that is the case logically you shoud completely segrate the military so that people aren't afraid of men assualting women or vice versa. Or are people afraid that a gay soldier might be checking out a straight soldier in the shower and make him feel uncomfortable. If that is the case changing and showering at a local gym would be a way bigger risk. And really why would most people assume that someone would want to check them out in the shower, I am a straight guy and probably the majority of women out there I wouldn't be interested in seeing in the shower.
Plus I wonder what is going to happen to the members of the military who were kicked out during DADT? If you were an officer who was kicked out can you come back in and do you get to keep your old rank?