As I was watching clips from a recent hearing on this (like a month ago), the first thing I noticed about all of those who were speaking out against repealing this law, were how old they were. Yes, it was in the senate, so most of the people were shriveled up old white dudes, but I just got me thinking how much of a generational issues this is.
I'm 36, and I don't think I personally know one person around my age who is against repealing this law (or even gay marriage). A couple generations from now when the old, anti-gay crowd is pretty much gone, it will be names like John McCain, which will be shown as the example of people who were behind the times, like Strom Thurmond and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
I've never served in the military, but seeing what we ask these young men and women to endure - the stress, the danger, the heat, the unsanitary conditions, the time away form families, etc... If they can handle most of that, I'm pretty damn certain that they can handle knowing that they have a gay guy in their tent... chances are they knew the guy was gay anyhow.
I like what you say here BlackRedYellow, and I was begining to think you made a great point, but then I read some of the comments that even people in here (who I assume are younger than McCain) said... they say its a disgrace that some people should be treated equally, and all I can imagine is that their great grandparents are alive inside of them and that some will just never break out of the rut of narrowmindedness.
Yeah, I guess I blame my narrow-minded great grandparents..... and Bush.
WTF ever....
why is it that when bigots talk about gay sex, they bring in beastiality and sex with children into the argument? It really says quite a lot about your ignorance when you think that two consenting adults having sex is tantamount to raping a defenseless creature or human.
It's immoral. Ask a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, fucking Druids, etc.
When I was growing up, my only role models were Liberace and Boy Fucking George.
If I'd seen that as a gay man I could also be a marine, a soldier, a policeman, a fireman, a hero... maybe I wouldn't have felt as inferior.
Godfather, I do understand your... confusion. You say you don't understand why anyone's sexuality has to be knwon in the military... and really, it doesn't. It doesn't matter at all what someone does in their off-hours.
The problem is that the military has been spending millions of dollars to do secret investigations to find the fags and dykes and kick them out.. even if they've never once mentioned their sexual orientation. If it doesn't matter, that has to be a two-way street... you can't tell someone that it doesn't matter that they're gay and then fire them for it.
I'm just as capable of being in the military as my straight friends are. I shouldn't have to hide and live in fear that someone is going to find my post about wanting to shag Jeff Ament.
When I was growing up, my only role models were Liberace and Boy Fucking George.
If I'd seen that as a gay man I could also be a marine, a soldier, a policeman, a fireman, a hero... maybe I wouldn't have felt as inferior.
Godfather, I do understand your... confusion. You say you don't understand why anyone's sexuality has to be knwon in the military... and really, it doesn't. It doesn't matter at all what someone does in their off-hours.
The problem is that the military has been spending millions of dollars to do secret investigations to find the fags and dykes and kick them out.. even if they've never once mentioned their sexual orientation. If it doesn't matter, that has to be a two-way street... you can't tell someone that it doesn't matter that they're gay and then fire them for it.
I'm just as capable of being in the military as my straight friends are. I shouldn't have to hide and live in fear that someone is going to find my post about wanting to shag Jeff Ament.
I agree with the talk and get fired deal, it's wrong.
and if I have offended you I apoligize and wish you well.
When I was growing up, my only role models were Liberace and Boy Fucking George.
If I'd seen that as a gay man I could also be a marine, a soldier, a policeman, a fireman, a hero... maybe I wouldn't have felt as inferior.
Godfather, I do understand your... confusion. You say you don't understand why anyone's sexuality has to be knwon in the military... and really, it doesn't. It doesn't matter at all what someone does in their off-hours.
The problem is that the military has been spending millions of dollars to do secret investigations to find the fags and dykes and kick them out.. even if they've never once mentioned their sexual orientation. If it doesn't matter, that has to be a two-way street... you can't tell someone that it doesn't matter that they're gay and then fire them for it.
I'm just as capable of being in the military as my straight friends are. I shouldn't have to hide and live in fear that someone is going to find my post about wanting to shag Jeff Ament.
With respect, I'll tell you it DOES matter what you do in your off-hours. Military members are told that they wear the uniform 24hrs/day. You break rules off-duty, and its the same as if you were on-duty.
The military never said it didn't matter if you were gay, they always said it's immoral behavior, and the punishment well-defined. They only said they wouldn't ask about it. Adultery is also a punishable offense in the military. Where else can you lose your job for cheating on your spouse? That's what makes the military different, and draws people to serve: Integrity. It's either something you believe in and live by or you don't.
and shagging Jeff? Dude.... that's revolting.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Why is it gay people can use these terms and blacks can call each other n*****s but if I say them I'm some sort of racist or hater?
Is it some special club?
assuming you're a white guy ... you can say honky without consequence ...
Or cracker. One of my faves. However, Unsung, he was using those words to show the kind of intolerance people have for homosexuals. I suspect he doesn't run around in his every day life speaking that way. Of course, I could be wrong.
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I like what you say here BlackRedYellow, and I was begining to think you made a great point, but then I read some of the comments that even people in here (who I assume are younger than McCain) said... they say its a disgrace that some people should be treated equally, and all I can imagine is that their great grandparents are alive inside of them and that some will just never break out of the rut of narrowmindedness.
Yeah, I guess I blame my narrow-minded great grandparents..... and Bush.
WTF ever....
Nah, I suggested that is the case for some people, not all. But there's also fear, lack of knowledge, stereotypes, religion, fear of straying from tradition, and many other factors the lead to peoples opinions that gay people shouldnt be treated equally. But overall, I think the majority of people who are extremely adamant about their stance against homosexuals having the same rights as heterosexuals, are older people like Blackredyellow stated. Oh yeah, and bush too.
why is it that when bigots talk about gay sex, they bring in beastiality and sex with children into the argument? It really says quite a lot about your ignorance when you think that two consenting adults having sex is tantamount to raping a defenseless creature or human.
It's immoral. Ask a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, fucking Druids, etc.
My one and only issue isnt a gay one, its more of an emotional one.
it would be just as relevant with male / female in the same fighting units.
If 2 people in a unit are in a relationship what is the priorities of those 2 individuals. Is it to protect each other or the unit as a whole.
I know if my wife was fighting beside me I would be more focused on her than on my role in the unit.
When I was growing up, my only role models were Liberace and Boy Fucking George.
If I'd seen that as a gay man I could also be a marine, a soldier, a policeman, a fireman, a hero... maybe I wouldn't have felt as inferior.
Godfather, I do understand your... confusion. You say you don't understand why anyone's sexuality has to be knwon in the military... and really, it doesn't. It doesn't matter at all what someone does in their off-hours.
The problem is that the military has been spending millions of dollars to do secret investigations to find the fags and dykes and kick them out.. even if they've never once mentioned their sexual orientation. If it doesn't matter, that has to be a two-way street... you can't tell someone that it doesn't matter that they're gay and then fire them for it.
I'm just as capable of being in the military as my straight friends are. I shouldn't have to hide and live in fear that someone is going to find my post about wanting to shag Jeff Ament.
With respect, I'll tell you it DOES matter what you do in your off-hours. Military members are told that they wear the uniform 24hrs/day. You break rules off-duty, and its the same as if you were on-duty.
The military never said it didn't matter if you were gay, they always said it's immoral behavior, and the punishment well-defined. They only said they wouldn't ask about it. Adultery is also a punishable offense in the military. Where else can you lose your job for cheating on your spouse? That's what makes the military different, and draws people to serve: Integrity. It's either something you believe in and live by or you don't.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make, except that you are saying that gay people can't have integrity?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I was being facetious. I was saying that THAT is what THEY are calling US.
Because... they do.
Point taken.
However if you, and by you I mean the gay community, ever want those terms to go away you need to stop using them altogether. Otherwise it is a bit hypocritical, in my opinion.
Here is my argument I served in the Army for 4+ years and I knew a few gay soldiers. We did not care. The thing is and I know I am going to get flamed, no pun intended, is that the segregation between men and women. For instance showers. Now I know that not all gay men want to look at all men and not all men want to look at all women and vice versa. But it would be a little uncomfortable if there was a guy/girl who had a crush on another guy/girl and had to shower with them. Just my opinion. That is just one issue. There is going to have to be a lot of look into EO policies. It will be interesting.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Here is my argument I served in the Army for 4+ years and I knew a few gay soldiers. We did not care. The thing is and I know I am going to get flamed, no pun intended, is that the segregation between men and women. For instance showers. Now I know that not all gay men want to look at all men and not all men want to look at all women and vice versa. But it would be a little uncomfortable if there was a guy/girl who had a crush on another guy/girl and had to shower with them. Just my opinion. That is just one issue. There is going to have to be a lot of look into EO policies. It will be interesting.
Meh. I'm gay. I go to a gym with a high amount of gay people. Some of them are really ugly. I'm hot. I may as well own that.
I don't necessarily like it when creepy gay men are showering next to me.. even if they're minding their own business.
But I deal.
I figure if just having some guy take a sideways glance at your junk is going to upset you that much, you're probably not man enough to be a marine anyway.
When I was growing up, my only role models were Liberace and Boy Fucking George.
If I'd seen that as a gay man I could also be a marine, a soldier, a policeman, a fireman, a hero... maybe I wouldn't have felt as inferior.
Godfather, I do understand your... confusion. You say you don't understand why anyone's sexuality has to be knwon in the military... and really, it doesn't. It doesn't matter at all what someone does in their off-hours.
The problem is that the military has been spending millions of dollars to do secret investigations to find the fags and dykes and kick them out.. even if they've never once mentioned their sexual orientation. If it doesn't matter, that has to be a two-way street... you can't tell someone that it doesn't matter that they're gay and then fire them for it.
I'm just as capable of being in the military as my straight friends are. I shouldn't have to hide and live in fear that someone is going to find my post about wanting to shag Jeff Ament.
With respect, I'll tell you it DOES matter what you do in your off-hours. Military members are told that they wear the uniform 24hrs/day. You break rules off-duty, and its the same as if you were on-duty.
The military never said it didn't matter if you were gay, they always said it's immoral behavior, and the punishment well-defined. They only said they wouldn't ask about it. Adultery is also a punishable offense in the military. Where else can you lose your job for cheating on your spouse? That's what makes the military different, and draws people to serve: Integrity. It's either something you believe in and live by or you don't.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make, except that you are saying that gay people can't have integrity?
Here is my argument I served in the Army for 4+ years and I knew a few gay soldiers. We did not care. The thing is and I know I am going to get flamed, no pun intended, is that the segregation between men and women. For instance showers. Now I know that not all gay men want to look at all men and not all men want to look at all women and vice versa. But it would be a little uncomfortable if there was a guy/girl who had a crush on another guy/girl and had to shower with them. Just my opinion. That is just one issue. There is going to have to be a lot of look into EO policies. It will be interesting.
Meh. I'm gay. I go to a gym with a high amount of gay people. Some of them are really ugly. I'm hot. I may as well own that.
I don't necessarily like it when creepy gay men are showering next to me.. even if they're minding their own business.
But I deal.
I figure if just having some guy take a sideways glance at your junk is going to upset you that much, you're probably not man enough to be a marine anyway.
I hear what you are saying, but one, this is supposed to be you battle buddy, not some stranger, Second while I understand your position you are probably more mature then them age wise, some 18-21 year old kid might not be so willing to brush it off. Are they correct? Not in my eyes but it is just food for thought.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I hear what you are saying, but one, this is supposed to be you battle buddy, not some stranger, Second while I understand your position you are probably more mature then them age wise, some 18-21 year old kid might not be so willing to brush it off. Are they correct? Not in my eyes but it is just food for thought.
Right... the whole "battle buddy" thing is a thing I've never personally experienced. Although most of the 18-21 year old military guys I know (in my line of work, I know a lot), all say it's just not that much of a deal to them.
I guess being gay... I don't like to think that I can't have the same opportunities or chances because some straight guy thinks I'm ikky.
I hear what you are saying, but one, this is supposed to be you battle buddy, not some stranger, Second while I understand your position you are probably more mature then them age wise, some 18-21 year old kid might not be so willing to brush it off. Are they correct? Not in my eyes but it is just food for thought.
Right... the whole "battle buddy" thing is a thing I've never personally experienced. Although most of the 18-21 year old military guys I know (in my line of work, I know a lot), all say it's just not that much of a deal to them.
I guess being gay... I don't like to think that I can't have the same opportunities or chances because some straight guy thinks I'm ikky.
Ya, I guess once an active-duty military member decides to be a porn actor, its safe to say that the core value integrity has alread been marginalized...
Enuf of bullshit. Lets call it what it is. Gays, like minorities, always say "fair treatment", but thats never good enough. What they really want is "special treatment." And everyone walks on egg-shells b/c of lawsuits.
And to the gay-porn George Lucas on here, a "real man" shouldn't have to put up w/ anyone "taking a sideways glance at their junk" as you so tastelessly put it. Why should you get to sexuall harass other men in the shower and shrug it off like, "If you're man enough to be a Marine, you should tolerate my sexuall observing of your genitals." I submit that as an example of the "special treatment" that you think you deserve.
Enuf of bullshit. Lets call it what it is. Gays, like minorities, always say "fair treatment", but thats never good enough. What they really want is "special treatment." And everyone walks on egg-shells b/c of lawsuits.
Who exactly is asking for special treatment?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Ya, I guess once an active-duty military member decides to be a porn actor, its safe to say that the core value integrity has alread been marginalized...
Gimme a break dude. What are you so afraid of?
I'd love to know what kinds of jobs or things were done extracurricularly by the soldiers who were relieved from duty and charged with all sorts of terrible crimes at Abu Ghraib, or the shitfucks who were exposed by wikileaks that massacred those innocent people on a street in Iraq from a helicopter (including severely injuring two children), or the many many other cases that we hear about of soldiers doing horrible things to the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan. I'll bet those folks had a lot of integrity, huh?
I think before they start saying NO to gay pepole in the military, they should find a new way to test some of these peoples abilites to reason that they are letting decide who lives and who dies in another country...
Serious question...So I take it you've NEVER watched porn ? yes/no?
Enuf of bullshit. Lets call it what it is. Gays, like minorities, always say "fair treatment", but thats never good enough. What they really want is "special treatment." And everyone walks on egg-shells b/c of lawsuits.
Wow. What a little crybaby you are.
Funny, but I must have missed the "lawsuits" where gay people sued for "special treatment."
Unless "not being fired for being gay" is what you call "special treatment." In which case then yes... that's what I want.
(oh, and for the record, the George Lucas of porn is actually Michael Lucas. My unofficial title is "The Steven Speilberg of Handicam Porn." A very hard-earned status that I'm quite proud of.
Why should you get to sexuall harass other men in the shower and shrug it off like, "If you're man enough to be a Marine, you should tolerate my sexuall observing of your genitals."
You shouldn't. Nor would anyone suggest that you should.
Sexual harassment shouldn't be tolerated in any way and if there's a gay guy who leers at the other men he's with... yes.. he's not fit for service. Just like the Neo-Nazi who attacks the Jewish soldiers. But not all white men are Neo-Nazis and not all gay men are creepy perverts. Most, in fact, are not.
Comments
Yeah, I guess I blame my narrow-minded great grandparents..... and Bush.
WTF ever....
It's immoral. Ask a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, fucking Druids, etc.
If I'd seen that as a gay man I could also be a marine, a soldier, a policeman, a fireman, a hero... maybe I wouldn't have felt as inferior.
Godfather, I do understand your... confusion. You say you don't understand why anyone's sexuality has to be knwon in the military... and really, it doesn't. It doesn't matter at all what someone does in their off-hours.
The problem is that the military has been spending millions of dollars to do secret investigations to find the fags and dykes and kick them out.. even if they've never once mentioned their sexual orientation. If it doesn't matter, that has to be a two-way street... you can't tell someone that it doesn't matter that they're gay and then fire them for it.
I'm just as capable of being in the military as my straight friends are. I shouldn't have to hide and live in fear that someone is going to find my post about wanting to shag Jeff Ament.
I agree with the talk and get fired deal, it's wrong.
and if I have offended you I apoligize and wish you well.
Godfather.
you didn't at all. There's a lot of confusion about what the end of DADT "means" exactly. I think it's good that we're all talking about it.
With respect, I'll tell you it DOES matter what you do in your off-hours. Military members are told that they wear the uniform 24hrs/day. You break rules off-duty, and its the same as if you were on-duty.
The military never said it didn't matter if you were gay, they always said it's immoral behavior, and the punishment well-defined. They only said they wouldn't ask about it. Adultery is also a punishable offense in the military. Where else can you lose your job for cheating on your spouse? That's what makes the military different, and draws people to serve: Integrity. It's either something you believe in and live by or you don't.
and shagging Jeff? Dude.... that's revolting.
Why is it gay people can use these terms and blacks can call each other n*****s but if I say them I'm some sort of racist or hater?
Is it some special club?
assuming you're a white guy ... you can say honky without consequence ...
Or cracker. One of my faves. However, Unsung, he was using those words to show the kind of intolerance people have for homosexuals. I suspect he doesn't run around in his every day life speaking that way. Of course, I could be wrong.
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Nah, I suggested that is the case for some people, not all. But there's also fear, lack of knowledge, stereotypes, religion, fear of straying from tradition, and many other factors the lead to peoples opinions that gay people shouldnt be treated equally. But overall, I think the majority of people who are extremely adamant about their stance against homosexuals having the same rights as heterosexuals, are older people like Blackredyellow stated. Oh yeah, and bush too.
And being gay, I'm just as capable of living with integrity as my straight friends. That's my point.
So that's a "no" to the pile-on, eh?
Oh well. Your loss.
In polite conversation, we can't, either.
I was being facetious. I was saying that THAT is what THEY are calling US.
Because... they do.
You would be correct. For a guy who makes his living directing porn movies, I've got a rather clean mouth.
well, I don't really know what to say here, so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw71vLazQEM
....A gay man that directs porn movies, I need an Advil.
Godfather.
Trust me... when we go in for the close-ups... It's like a biology lesson for me.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=91525
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=67751
it would be just as relevant with male / female in the same fighting units.
If 2 people in a unit are in a relationship what is the priorities of those 2 individuals. Is it to protect each other or the unit as a whole.
I know if my wife was fighting beside me I would be more focused on her than on my role in the unit.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Point taken.
However if you, and by you I mean the gay community, ever want those terms to go away you need to stop using them altogether. Otherwise it is a bit hypocritical, in my opinion.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Meh. I'm gay. I go to a gym with a high amount of gay people. Some of them are really ugly. I'm hot. I may as well own that.
I don't necessarily like it when creepy gay men are showering next to me.. even if they're minding their own business.
But I deal.
I figure if just having some guy take a sideways glance at your junk is going to upset you that much, you're probably not man enough to be a marine anyway.
read it again w/ an open brain.
I hear what you are saying, but one, this is supposed to be you battle buddy, not some stranger, Second while I understand your position you are probably more mature then them age wise, some 18-21 year old kid might not be so willing to brush it off. Are they correct? Not in my eyes but it is just food for thought.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Right... the whole "battle buddy" thing is a thing I've never personally experienced. Although most of the 18-21 year old military guys I know (in my line of work, I know a lot), all say it's just not that much of a deal to them.
I guess being gay... I don't like to think that I can't have the same opportunities or chances because some straight guy thinks I'm ikky.
Ya, I guess once an active-duty military member decides to be a porn actor, its safe to say that the core value integrity has alread been marginalized...
Enuf of bullshit. Lets call it what it is. Gays, like minorities, always say "fair treatment", but thats never good enough. What they really want is "special treatment." And everyone walks on egg-shells b/c of lawsuits.
And to the gay-porn George Lucas on here, a "real man" shouldn't have to put up w/ anyone "taking a sideways glance at their junk" as you so tastelessly put it. Why should you get to sexuall harass other men in the shower and shrug it off like, "If you're man enough to be a Marine, you should tolerate my sexuall observing of your genitals." I submit that as an example of the "special treatment" that you think you deserve.
Ikky? Not the first word that leaps to mind.....
Who exactly is asking for special treatment?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Gimme a break dude. What are you so afraid of?
I'd love to know what kinds of jobs or things were done extracurricularly by the soldiers who were relieved from duty and charged with all sorts of terrible crimes at Abu Ghraib, or the shitfucks who were exposed by wikileaks that massacred those innocent people on a street in Iraq from a helicopter (including severely injuring two children), or the many many other cases that we hear about of soldiers doing horrible things to the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan. I'll bet those folks had a lot of integrity, huh?
I think before they start saying NO to gay pepole in the military, they should find a new way to test some of these peoples abilites to reason that they are letting decide who lives and who dies in another country...
Serious question...So I take it you've NEVER watched porn ? yes/no?
Wow. What a little crybaby you are.
Funny, but I must have missed the "lawsuits" where gay people sued for "special treatment."
Unless "not being fired for being gay" is what you call "special treatment." In which case then yes... that's what I want.
(oh, and for the record, the George Lucas of porn is actually Michael Lucas. My unofficial title is "The Steven Speilberg of Handicam Porn." A very hard-earned status that I'm quite proud of.
You shouldn't. Nor would anyone suggest that you should.
Sexual harassment shouldn't be tolerated in any way and if there's a gay guy who leers at the other men he's with... yes.. he's not fit for service. Just like the Neo-Nazi who attacks the Jewish soldiers. But not all white men are Neo-Nazis and not all gay men are creepy perverts. Most, in fact, are not.