You don't understand cigarettes or you wouldn't expect a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking and please don't liken it to not being able to take a crap for 12 hours cause you can! And you can also get a drink away from home and probably make it in the back seat of a car or other creative places. We can do all these things you name away from home and smoking within their designated places should be ok with you but you are unable to compromise. And life is full of compromise.
whats to understand? what you really mean is we dont understand the weak will of mankind. but we do. we understand mankind cant possibly be expected to go for x number of hours without lighting up. why cant they? if you can stave off hunger for hours you surely can wait til your lunchbreak or teabreak to have a cigarette. you are inconveniencing your fellow workmates by insisting on a smoke break. and thats not very considerate. wheres their comparable break?
you know i sure could do with a wine break during the day... perhaps i should test that. but of course im sure theres ban on drinking in the workplace or outside of designated areas. guess ill just have to suck it up and wait til my lunchbreak or hometime.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Pandora: there is a girl at my work that shared a workspace with a man who ate fucking sardines every single day at lunch right out of the can. He would then toss the can, and subsequently the smell, into their communal trash. Do you think he had a right to do that, and she should compromise because he enjoyed the taste of sardines, no matter how nauseous it made her for the rest of the afternoon?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
You don't understand cigarettes or you wouldn't expect a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking and please don't liken it to not being able to take a crap for 12 hours cause you can! And you can also get a drink away from home and probably make it in the back seat of a car or other creative places. We can do all these things you name away from home and smoking within their designated places should be ok with you but you are unable to compromise. And life is full of compromise.
...
Yes... yes, life IS full of compromises... one of them being having to go without a cigarette for 12 hours. Not, having one ain't going to kill you... compromise.
When my workplace banned smoking inside AND outside their buildings (years and years ago and I was a smoker then), they offered smokers counselling, 'stop smoking' clinics, patches, etc. They banned smoking outside their building as it was a negative reflection on the company (a group of people huddled together, having a smoke) and gave a very bad impression to clients entering. Also, they were fed up with some smokers taking breaks for smokes - 10/15 minutes every hour or two.
You don't understand cigarettes or you wouldn't expect a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking and please don't liken it to not being able to take a crap for 12 hours cause you can! And you can also get a drink away from home and probably make it in the back seat of a car or other creative places. We can do all these things you name away from home and smoking within their designated places should be ok with you but you are unable to compromise. And life is full of compromise.
...
Yes... yes, life IS full of compromises... one of them being having to go without a cigarette for 12 hours. Not, having one ain't going to kill you... compromise.
When my workplace banned smoking inside AND outside their buildings (years and years ago and I was a smoker then), they offered smokers counselling, 'stop smoking' clinics, patches, etc. They banned smoking outside their building as it was a negative reflection on the company (a group of people huddled together, having a smoke) and gave a very bad impression to clients entering. Also, they were fed up with some smokers taking breaks for smokes - 10/15 minutes every hour or two.
Smoking and second hand smoke is a health hazard.
So you're saying you were a smoker who was banned from smoking even outside and you lived to tell the horrid tale?! :shock: How were you able to live a happy and rewarding life after your freedoms had been trampled on and you were the object of mean discrimination at the hands of such selfish and judgmental people?!? :?
Complaining becomes a habit, it is the way in which you look at things negatively.
I say try to see things positively.
Next time you see a smoker, give him a tic tac and tell you love em...but mean it!
Or how about just look the other way?
you DO realize this thread was started by a smoker who thinks everybody sucks, right?
And by the way, if I gave a smoker a tic tac, I'd probably get a punch in the mouth. Try it, I dare you!
Its all in the feel behind it... your heart must be in the right place,
which doesn't seem to be happening here much There is a lot of hate towards the smokers.
Kudos to our OP, with the other smoke hating threads and his title very inventive because each one of us is as imperfect as the next. Although some who posted give the feel that they are better than others.
He makes a valid point about all the obnoxious things to get on, like car fumes.
The non smoking peeps could put some concerns there also instead of exclusively trampling on others who are, by the way, getting with the program.
But I sense, as the smokers probably do, that nothing will be good enough for those obsessed with second hand cigarette smoke.
Thank you for getting the true nature of why I named the thread everybody sucks.
First of all, I would like to thank everybody who got why I called this thread everybody sucks. And I am sure what I am about to say is going to open up another can of worms. But lets be real here, there is not one person in the world that does not do something that other people dont like. And a lot of people brought up good points. Its just this smoking thing is a hot button subject these days. I do my best to be a considerate smoker. I myself understand smoking sucks. And I try all the time to stop but its fucking hard. I take about 4 smoke breaks a day at work for a total of about 20 minutes. And this guy I work with complains that I am always leaving to smoke. Yet he leaves to make personal phone calls about 3 times a day for a total of about an hour. So to me he sucks about 40 minutes more a day than I do. And the whole "your right to breathe clean air." Sorry people, your governments said they dont care about that about the time of the industrial revolution. And we can all go on and on about this and we probably will. But here is a funny and true story that involves pearl jam to kind of put a little perspective on the whole issue. I was at the 5-21 pearl jam show at madison square garden. These 5 dudes in the row in front of me were lighting up joint after joint. Smoking is not permitted in madison square garden. Do i Give a fuck that these dudes are smokin weed in front of me. NO I DONT. AND I DONT SMOKE WEED. I dont like being high(anymore, I used to love it). So, I get a contact high from these dudes in front of me. So I am like fuck it "I am going to smoke a cigarette." So, I light a cigarette and one of the dudes that was smokin weed the entire show turns around and says "yo dude can you put that out cigarette
So, I get a contact high from these dudes in front of me.
Now consider those of us who are subject to randome D/A screening as a condition of employment to maintain clearance. We like going to concerts too! Theoretically we could lose our job because someone had to use drugs near us.
We are talking about people who complain about smokers smoking in their own designated areas. This is wrong and without reason.
What is happening is.... common sense and reason is gone and it is being replaced with hate.
A mind closes to compromise and the heart follows.
As far as the "ashtray" comment ... you didn't just call a person that right?
We've never been discussing "smokers in their designated areas", it's been public areas. I have no problem if someone does it somewhere out of the way that doesn't impact others. (Home or car) An employer doesn't NEED to give them a place to smoke any more than he needs to provide a place for his alcoholic employees to drink. I've actually worked at customer sites that did not allow smoking on site, only in your car while arriving and leaving. You couldn't even go sit in your car at lunch and smoke!
The funny thing is, there is no such thing as common sense! The concept of common sense is a long-standing term, based on human experience and people's individual perceptions. Thus, common sense is different from person to person – common sense is not common.
Not saying that I intended to, but what is wrong with calling someone an "ashtray"? If someone came to work drenched in perfume, would it be offensive to say you didn't want to sit next to the perfume counter?
I know what my loved ones know and don't know and do and don't want to hear. I'm not obnoxious about it or anything. But we watched our great-grandmother care for our great-grandfather who was horribly sick with emphysema for over 10 years, so every time my loved one lights up in front of me knowing I'll be the one tied to her bedside for 10 years should she experience a similar consequence, I think I have a right to be at least a little upset that she is making that decision about both of our futures. I only wish I had been harder on her when she started smoking when we were kids - maybe she wouldn't have become addicted - but I didn't want it to get tiresome or anything. :roll:
Free will thats it and we don't have to agree. Lessons come hard for all of us but thats why we are here. Be glad you have the opportunity to be tied to a bed with someone...tough stuff but it will build your character and your heart and may turn out to be what matters the most to you at the end of your life.
...
Out of all of this... do you smoke?
Because I do... not much... but still... yeah, I do. I ain't easy to quit them fuckers... I know, I quit every time I get to the last one in the pack. Is that free will... wanting to quit, but, some how cannot? Those are addicting little sonsovbitches... ask anyone who smokes. This is my burden to bear.. i don't think others should have to suffer through my weakness and inability to quit.
As for this character that you speak of... character only comes from suffering through tough times?
And finally... yeah, us smokers need a place to smoke... so, I smoke in the car or my home... away from others because I care about others. I don't want to be the source of their discomfort, so guess what? I move away... far enough away as to not bother them will my failure to summon my free will to quit these fucking things.
I know you think those crapping in pools things have no validity... but think about masturbating.... which I do at home... just like everyone else, here. I mean, I guess, I could rub one out here in my cubicle and flick the spunk over the wall to my co-worker's side... what the hell... why should i care? I need to do it... there's nastier shit in the world than my man-seed, right? Maybe it'll give him character he'll appreciate on his death bed, yeah?
No I am a non smoker. I smoked from the ages of 19 to 23 then quit when I met JB who had quit after being a teen smoker.
My son smokes, my daughter does not. JB smokes cigars, all my sisters smoke or did. My father did not and my Mama did very lightly.
One thing that seems to be dismissed is that the analogies of not being able
to do certain things while away from home...
this incorrect and for some reason being used as an analogy
of what the nonsmokers have given up, I guess?? :?
All the things stated people can and they do, away from home, crap, drink have sex....etc.
The naked and sing off tune might actually work soon...naked karaoke theres an idea, I bet people sound a lot better when naked
I'm not touching the 'the gettin jiggy with it" stuff as you knew I wouldn't...hey were you being a jag?
This for scb....
I was speaking of the free will of scb loved ones and the right to choose what they enjoy or need.
And yes scb... I was not being condescending that was coming from the heart, from my life experience.
I believe, as I have said before, what we do for others is pretty much all we will take with us from this world when we go.
'The love you receive is the love that is saved'
That was my point to you, that it is an opportunity for great love to be there with someone in their time of need. If that is dying from smoking so be it.
The spin you put on being with your loved one in that capacity didn't seem to approach the challenge in a positive way. Perhaps I took that wrong. I apologize if so, it seemed a little high horse ish.
Would you rather a loved one not suffer, of course. Would you rather they lived their life in a perfect way so as to remain healthy as long as possible? Sure, but that is not in our control nor should it be.
My sister passed from throat cancer 5 years ago. She was the ripe old age of 58, that's 3 short years older than I am now.
Would I like her to still be walking the earth? yes,
was it her choice to smoke and drink? yes and to not quit when advised? yes.
Was it a lesson learned for her on the other side? yes.
Did she know how very much I loved and accepted her and her choices? yes.
This life lesson has also taught me much.
We must think for ourselves in this life and learn from our mistakes.
To all those that jumped on the 12 hour thingy.....
yes I feel it is extremely hard for a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking, not impossible but very stressful and why should they?... where is the compromise there?
The non smokers are saying they should go 12 hours because they don't want to compromise.
It doesn't matter that the smokers have designated areas or are not able to smoke in restaurants bars or the workplace.
They want it their way no no way.They want to do away with it.
They do not want to see a cigarette, basically that's what it comes down to.
Abolish the right to smoke in public.
Fast forward a few years and then perhaps one step further, the insurances costs to take care of ill smokers is a burden...a very good reason to abolish it and make it illegal all together.
One right gone.
This of course worries an open minded person because what will be the next right taken away?
Who will be targeted next in a society of the perfect?
Perhaps those that listen to loud music... perhaps tougher laws on weed :shock:
The non smokers will not agree with me,
my stance.... let the smokers have their areas to smoke and keep the right to smoke in public,
the non smokers are on the road to remove choice.
Without compromise there is no reason.... what follows is a mind that is closed to the subject
and as we see here, the heart soon loses it's compassion.
and then everybody sucks
[Out of all of this... do you smoke?
Because I do... not much... but still... yeah, I do. I ain't easy to quit them fuckers... I know, I quit every time I get to the last one in the pack. Is that free will... wanting to quit, but, some how cannot? Those are addicting little sonsovbitches... ask anyone who smokes. This is my burden to bear.. i don't think others should have to suffer through my weakness and inability to quit.As for this character that you speak of... character only comes from suffering through tough times?
And finally... yeah, us smokers need a place to smoke... so, I smoke in the car or my home... away from others because I care about others. I don't want to be the source of their discomfort, so guess what? I move away... far enough away as to not bother them will my failure to summon my free will to quit these fucking things.
I know you think those crapping in pools things have no validity... but think about masturbating.... which I do at home... just like everyone else, here. I mean, I guess, I could rub one out here in my cubicle and flick the spunk over the wall to my co-worker's side... what the hell... why should i care? I need to do it... there's nastier shit in the world than my man-seed, right? Maybe it'll give him character he'll appreciate on his death bed, yeah?
Thank you Cosmo. I wish everyone was like you. I feel that if I was a smoker, this is how I would act too.
haha , and you're analogy is quite funny...man-seed!!
The smokers do have a choice, to smoke or not to smoke.
And they choose to smoke (or simply don't have the will power to do otherwise). Let 'em, as it's still legal. Jumping on the bandwagon to crucify public smoking has no ground as long as cigarettes are still legal. Not to mention, it just divides us even further. Is that really what we all want?
so then who do we afford these rights to ? where I work we had a smoking area but then the company turned the whole plant into a smoke free facility and told the smokers that they have to smoke outside by the street well this a busy street with joggers just a bout all day and now they run around us going into the street and thats not right but the smokers were forced into that situation, the smokers have as much right as the joggers to use that sidewalk and I agree it's not very polite but there is no where else for the smokers to go at break.
Godfather.
Let me ask you a question...let's say a company allows their employees to smoke in their facility. When an employee comes down with cancer that didn't smoke, what do you think happens?
Now, let's say the company only allows smoking in a designated area. Now an employee that doesn't smoke ends up getting some form of cancer related to smoke...what do you think happens?
The first priority needs to be on the health and safety of all employees not their convenience. In addition, the company must also protect itself from the ridiculous lawsuits that pop up everywhere.
The smokers do have a choice, to smoke or not to smoke.
right now they do..if you read the post you took my quote from you will see I am speaking down the road,
'give an inch take a mile' is the name of the game.
actually if I read your post right you and I agree :shock: as long as the smokers stay in the
designated smoker areas you are ok with it...
you are not looking for a public ban on the public streets
if I got that right,
not that smokers can only smoke in their homes, as some are proposing.
No I am a non smoker. I smoked from the ages of 19 to 23 then quit when I met JB who had quit after being a teen smoker.
My son smokes, my daughter does not. JB smokes cigars, all my sisters smoke or did. My father did not and my Mama did very lightly.
One thing that seems to be dismissed is that the analogies of not being able
to do certain things while away from home...
this incorrect and for some reason being used as an analogy
of what the nonsmokers have given up, I guess?? :?
All the things stated people can and they do, away from home, crap, drink have sex....etc.
The naked and sing off tune might actually work soon...naked karaoke theres an idea, I bet people sound a lot better when naked
I'm not touching the 'the gettin jiggy with it" stuff as you knew I wouldn't...hey were you being a jag?
But you are ignoring the fact that people CAN smoke away from home - JUST NOT IN PUBLIC PLACES WHERE IT BOTHERS OTHER PEOPLE, which is the point of the analogies. There are MANY, many freedoms we have that are regulated so as not to infringe upon the rights of others. Why should smoking be any exception?? Why should smokers get special treatment? And how the hell is that a compromise? :?
This for scb....
I was speaking of the free will of scb loved ones and the right to choose what they enjoy or need.
And yes scb... I was not being condescending that was coming from the heart, from my life experience.
I believe, as I have said before, what we do for others is pretty much all we will take with us from this world when we go.
'The love you receive is the love that is saved'
That was my point to you, that it is an opportunity for great love to be there with someone in their time of need. If that is dying from smoking so be it.
The spin you put on being with your loved one in that capacity didn't seem to approach the challenge in a positive way. Perhaps I took that wrong. I apologize if so, it seemed a little high horse ish.
Would you rather a loved one not suffer, of course. Would you rather they lived their life in a perfect way so as to remain healthy as long as possible? Sure, but that is not in our control nor should it be.
My sister passed from throat cancer 5 years ago. She was the ripe old age of 58, that's 3 short years older than I am now.
Would I like her to still be walking the earth? yes,
was it her choice to smoke and drink? yes and to not quit when advised? yes.
Was it a lesson learned for her on the other side? yes.
Did she know how very much I loved and accepted her and her choices? yes.
This life lesson has also taught me much.
We must think for ourselves in this life and learn from our mistakes.
Just because condescension comes from your heart does not make it any less condescending. And since you are continuing to do it, I'll go ahead and respond:
How dare you presume to have the knowledge or the right to judge the relationship I have with my own twin sister?!?! - or anyone else, for that matter? She tells me how to live my life and I tell her how to live hers and it's none of your fucking business. You don't know the first thing about us or our love for each other or what we do for each other, and yet you're going to sit up on your high horse and lecture me about what I'm going to take from this world and opportunities for great love to be with her in her time of need?? I have been with her in her time of need from fucking CONCEPTION and I will be with her in her time of need until she is dead and buried, whether from smoking or anything else - and she knows this and chooses to possibly put me and my future family in a situation that would cause us years of suffering, as our (unknowing) great-grandfather inadvertently did to our great-grandmother. I have every right to be unhappy about her decision to smoke for this and many other reasons.
But one thing you don't seem to understand - regarding my sister or smoking in general - is that disapproving of a person's decision to smoke does not in any way preclude feeling compassion for them and their addiction. (I think I'm gong to put that in bold, because it seems to be an important missing link in this conversation.) So your presumption that people who disapprove of others' decisions to subject them to second-hand smoke - and note that here we're not even talking about people's decisions to smoke in general - lack understanding and empathy is misguided at best and, some might say, even offensive.
To all those that jumped on the 12 hour thingy.....
yes I feel it is extremely hard for a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking, not impossible but very stressful and why should they?... where is the compromise there?
The non smokers are saying they should go 12 hours because they don't want to compromise.
It doesn't matter that the smokers have designated areas or are not able to smoke in restaurants bars or the workplace.
They want it their way no no way.They want to do away with it.
They do not want to see a cigarette, basically that's what it comes down to.
Abolish the right to smoke in public.
Fast forward a few years and then perhaps one step further, the insurances costs to take care of ill smokers is a burden...a very good reason to abolish it and make it illegal all together.
One right gone.
This of course worries an open minded person because what will be the next right taken away?
Who will be targeted next in a society of the perfect?
Perhaps those that listen to loud music... perhaps tougher laws on weed :shock:
The non smokers will not agree with me,
my stance.... let the smokers have their areas to smoke and keep the right to smoke in public,
the non smokers are on the road to remove choice.
Without compromise there is no reason.... what follows is a mind that is closed to the subject
and as we see here, the heart soon loses it's compassion.
and then everybody sucks
I think your steadfast judgment of people who believe everyone has a right to not be subjected to secondhand smoke against their will precludes any understanding of what they are actually saying.
For one thing, no one is refusing to compromise here (that I have seen). We are paying an extra $10 BILLION in taxes so people exercise their so-called right to smoke. We are having to move into apartments and buy cars previously inhabited/owned by smokers and deal with the residual stink for years. (I lived in my last apartment for 3 years and could never get the smell out of the drapes.) We are made to close our home and car windows so others can smoke in their homes and cars with their windows open. We are putting up with the tobacco industry to preying on us and our children (yes, I know they're not supposed to, but they do). We have to sit next to crazy-stinky people in offices, at school, on planes, etc. Many of us still pick up the slack for smokers taking extra breaks at work. (They can still do this even if they have to smoke in their cars, so I don't know what you're going on about.) I could go on... My point is that we compromise PLENTY already without having to also sacrifice the air in public places. You asked where's the compromise... there it is.
Let me ask you this: Do you think people should be able to smoke outside the doors of hospitals? Outdoors at children's amusement parks? Do you think there should be some line drawn for the protection of others, or is looking out for the well-being of patients and children still too uncompromising for you?
Secondly, no one has said smokers should be "forced" to go 12 hours without smoking or that we are trying to do away with it altogether. (And I'm surprised by your blatant misrepresentation of the truth. "They don't want to SEE a cigarette"?? Are you fucking kidding with that?) We have just said that they should do it in a way that doesn't subject others to it. They can have all the designated smoking areas they want as long as it doesn't affect others. Or let them smoke in their cars. Let them invent self-cleaning bubbles that go around their head when they smoke. Again, people can smoke all they want to - I don't give a damn, as long as they leave me out of it.
Third, "Who will be targeted next in this society of the perfect?" "The non-smokers are on the road to remove choice"?? That's not a sensational misrepresentation at all! :roll: Are you fucking kidding?? :? You seem to be saying that if people aren't conspiracy theorists they're not open-minded people. Really?? NO ONE is calling for the abolition of smoking; it's sad that people can't understand the difference. Don't forget that many, many non-smokers support the legalization of weed, by the way.
And again with saying we lack compassion?? That's getting pretty old and, not that you care, but it's causing me to lose all respect I used to have for you. I think it's your mind that it closed on the subject.
The smokers do have a choice, to smoke or not to smoke.
right now they do..if you read the post you took my quote from you will see I am speaking down the road,
'give an inch take a mile' is the name of the game.
actually if I read your post right you and I agree :shock: as long as the smokers stay in the
designated smoker areas you are ok with it...
you are not looking for a public ban on the public streets
if I got that right,
not that smokers can only smoke in their homes, as some are proposing.
I don't understand why you think a certain amount of regulation is appropriate but a different amount is suddenly an infringement on the rights of smokers by people who seek to crucify them. Someone could just as easily say the same thing about you and your recommended restrictions. I think when it's such a fine and fuzzy line between what you find acceptable and what others find acceptable, you shouldn't be so quick to judge the others. People who live is glass houses and all that...
I just want to point out that as bad as cigarettes are for people in general, no one can make another person quit. It's got to come from within the smoker to decide what they want to do. Think about that with your sister. I know that if someone hated my bad habits, it would not make me stop them. I've got to want to quit for me for anything to happen. Give up that need to decide for your sister and she may just make the right decision.
I just want to point out that as bad as cigarettes are for people in general, no one can make another person quit. It's got to come from within the smoker to decide what they want to do. Think about that with your sister. I know that if someone hated my bad habits, it would not make me stop them. I've got to want to quit for me for anything to happen. Give up that need to decide for your sister and she may just make the right decision.
I am angry - not about smoking but about Pandora's (and now your) condescending, self-righteous, making presumptions about stuff you can't possibly understand and that's none of your fucking business lectures. I am unhappy that my sister smokes; I do not have a need to control her and I am aware that no one can make another person quit - and I shouldn't have to explain or justify it to you or anyone else. Please don't talk to me like I'm a child.
I just want to point out that as bad as cigarettes are for people in general, no one can make another person quit. It's got to come from within the smoker to decide what they want to do. Think about that with your sister. I know that if someone hated my bad habits, it would not make me stop them. I've got to want to quit for me for anything to happen. Give up that need to decide for your sister and she may just make the right decision.
I am angry - not about smoking but about Pandora's (and now your) condescending, self-righteous, making presumptions about stuff you can't possibly understand and that's none of your fucking business lectures. I am unhappy that my sister smokes; I do not have a need to control her - and I shouldn't have to explain or justify it to you or anyone else. Please don't talk to me like I'm a child.
If you want to take it as condescending, that's your problem. I was trying to be helpful, and I didn't feel that Pandora's post was condescending either. I've been where you are. I'm just trying to give you some advice. But never mind now.
I just want to point out that as bad as cigarettes are for people in general, no one can make another person quit. It's got to come from within the smoker to decide what they want to do. Think about that with your sister. I know that if someone hated my bad habits, it would not make me stop them. I've got to want to quit for me for anything to happen. Give up that need to decide for your sister and she may just make the right decision.
I am angry - not about smoking but about Pandora's (and now your) condescending, self-righteous, making presumptions about stuff you can't possibly understand and that's none of your fucking business lectures. I am unhappy that my sister smokes; I do not have a need to control her - and I shouldn't have to explain or justify it to you or anyone else. Please don't talk to me like I'm a child.
If you want to take it as condescending, that's your problem. I was trying to be helpful, and I didn't feel that Pandora's post was condescending either. I've been where you are. I'm just trying to give you some advice. But never mind now.
Well thanks for your good intentions. Presuming that someone needs your advice about how to interact with their own family members when you have absolutely no understanding of the nature of their relationship is pretty fucking condescending though. So is talking to them like they have no experience with or understanding of addiction.
Well thanks for your good intentions. Presuming that someone needs your advice about how to interact with their own family members when you have absolutely no understanding of the nature of their relationship is pretty fucking condescending though. So is talking to them like they have no experience with or understanding of addiction.
Then don't talk about your family problems if you want us all out of your business. Try to have a good day, ok?
give an inch take a mile' is the name of the game.
The same goes for smokers. Tell them it's OK to smoke 50 ft outside the entrance, it's not long before they a huddled right outside the door, throwing their butts everywhere. The easiest thing to do is ban outdoor public smoking.
actually if I read your post right you and I agree :shock: as long as the smokers stay in the
designated smoker areas you are ok with it...
you are not looking for a public ban on the public streets
if I got that right,
not that smokers can only smoke in their homes, as some are proposing.
I'm fine with designated areas, i.e. an out of the way smoking lounge. I'm also fine with an employer or proprietor who doesn't want to offer such an area. I'm fine if they do it in their car or in their home as long as they don't expose other (such as children) to it. I don't think smoking should be allowed anywhere in public, where it might bother the mass majority of the population who are non-smokers.
I'm fine with designated areas, i.e. an out of the way smoking lounge. I'm also fine with an employer or proprietor who doesn't want to offer such an area. I'm fine if they do it in their car or in their home as long as they don't expose other (such as children) to it. I don't think smoking should be allowed anywhere in public, where it might bother the mass majority of the population who are non-smokers.
Yet, the mass majority of the population were the smokers up until the last ten or so years. Everyone smoked (except me, I actually tried to like smoking, didn't work). And the popular thing to do was smoke in the 40s through the 70s. Where was the uproar then? Oh,yeah...they were the ones smoking.
so then who do we afford these rights to ? where I work we had a smoking area but then the company turned the whole plant into a smoke free facility and told the smokers that they have to smoke outside by the street well this a busy street with joggers just a bout all day and now they run around us going into the street and thats not right but the smokers were forced into that situation, the smokers have as much right as the joggers to use that sidewalk and I agree it's not very polite but there is no where else for the smokers to go at break.
Godfather.
Let me ask you a question...let's say a company allows their employees to smoke in their facility. When an employee comes down with cancer that didn't smoke, what do you think happens?
Now, let's say the company only allows smoking in a designated area. Now an employee that doesn't smoke ends up getting some form of cancer related to smoke...what do you think happens?
The first priority needs to be on the health and safety of all employees not their convenience. In addition, the company must also protect itself from the ridiculous lawsuits that pop up everywhere.
we had a out-door smoking area out near the back of the plant so for the most part nobody else needed to go there.
let me ask you something...lets say I am far away from anybody and having a cig, along comes joe blow and wants to talk to me should I A. put out my cig to see what he want's..or B. joe blow can wait till I'm finished smoking to talk me. ? guess what happens..I choose plan B. if joe blow sees me smoking and don't want second hand smoke he should do his best to wait for me or stay away from me..pretty simple right ?
you guys are blowing this stuff way out of proportion,you make sound like smokers are out to kill the world
with 2nd hand smoke and we have no rights at all, just stay away from smokers it's simple.
I'm fine with designated areas, i.e. an out of the way smoking lounge. I'm also fine with an employer or proprietor who doesn't want to offer such an area. I'm fine if they do it in their car or in their home as long as they don't expose other (such as children) to it. I don't think smoking should be allowed anywhere in public, where it might bother the mass majority of the population who are non-smokers.
Yet, the mass majority of the population were the smokers up until the last ten or so years. Everyone smoked (except me, I actually tried to like smoking, didn't work). And the popular thing to do was smoke in the 40s through the 70s. Where was the uproar then? Oh,yeah...they were the ones smoking.
The bottom line is that many smokers are going to continue to complain because there is a huge change in education and what a typical non-smoker is willing to put up with.
And non-smokers will continue to complain and tighten the noose on smokers rights because it is a huge health concern. I wouldnt be so adamant about not wanting to inhale someone elses smoke if it wasnt a health concern. I don't think it is close-mindedness either, its just being smart.
I enjoy seeing everyones perspectives in here, and the best thing i've learned is that maybe I should approach someone who is smoking an ask nicely for them to stop or move. Unfortunatley, I think many times this wont end well, but who knows? And the most personal situation I've had to deal with was a co-worker in close quarters. Had that guy never been fired, I really can't even imagine what would've/could've happened.
But one other thing I really have been considering is that man ypeople herre throw around terms like "close-mindedness" and "control others"... my answer to this is exactly what I read by Cosmo (who is an ocasional smoker). He is very conscious of his surroundings and how his actions might affect others. This forced me to think like a smoker and realize that I would want to act like him (if I were a smoker) so that I do not have to force my (health detrimental)choices onto another human. Of course, many smokers might not have been a non-smoker since they were teens or very young, so they often don't think like a non-smoker and/or realize how they are negatively affecting people around them.
Comments
whats to understand? what you really mean is we dont understand the weak will of mankind. but we do. we understand mankind cant possibly be expected to go for x number of hours without lighting up. why cant they? if you can stave off hunger for hours you surely can wait til your lunchbreak or teabreak to have a cigarette. you are inconveniencing your fellow workmates by insisting on a smoke break. and thats not very considerate. wheres their comparable break?
you know i sure could do with a wine break during the day... perhaps i should test that. but of course im sure theres ban on drinking in the workplace or outside of designated areas. guess ill just have to suck it up and wait til my lunchbreak or hometime.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
not if you shoot someone in the eye with it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
When my workplace banned smoking inside AND outside their buildings (years and years ago and I was a smoker then), they offered smokers counselling, 'stop smoking' clinics, patches, etc. They banned smoking outside their building as it was a negative reflection on the company (a group of people huddled together, having a smoke) and gave a very bad impression to clients entering. Also, they were fed up with some smokers taking breaks for smokes - 10/15 minutes every hour or two.
Smoking and second hand smoke is a health hazard.
So you're saying you were a smoker who was banned from smoking even outside and you lived to tell the horrid tale?! :shock: How were you able to live a happy and rewarding life after your freedoms had been trampled on and you were the object of mean discrimination at the hands of such selfish and judgmental people?!? :?
Now consider those of us who are subject to randome D/A screening as a condition of employment to maintain clearance. We like going to concerts too! Theoretically we could lose our job because someone had to use drugs near us.
We've never been discussing "smokers in their designated areas", it's been public areas. I have no problem if someone does it somewhere out of the way that doesn't impact others. (Home or car) An employer doesn't NEED to give them a place to smoke any more than he needs to provide a place for his alcoholic employees to drink. I've actually worked at customer sites that did not allow smoking on site, only in your car while arriving and leaving. You couldn't even go sit in your car at lunch and smoke!
The funny thing is, there is no such thing as common sense! The concept of common sense is a long-standing term, based on human experience and people's individual perceptions. Thus, common sense is different from person to person – common sense is not common.
Not saying that I intended to, but what is wrong with calling someone an "ashtray"? If someone came to work drenched in perfume, would it be offensive to say you didn't want to sit next to the perfume counter?
My son smokes, my daughter does not. JB smokes cigars, all my sisters smoke or did. My father did not and my Mama did very lightly.
One thing that seems to be dismissed is that the analogies of not being able
to do certain things while away from home...
this incorrect and for some reason being used as an analogy
of what the nonsmokers have given up, I guess?? :?
All the things stated people can and they do, away from home, crap, drink have sex....etc.
The naked and sing off tune might actually work soon...naked karaoke theres an idea, I bet people sound a lot better when naked
I'm not touching the 'the gettin jiggy with it" stuff as you knew I wouldn't...hey were you being a jag?
This for scb....
I was speaking of the free will of scb loved ones and the right to choose what they enjoy or need.
And yes scb... I was not being condescending that was coming from the heart, from my life experience.
I believe, as I have said before, what we do for others is pretty much all we will take with us from this world when we go.
'The love you receive is the love that is saved'
That was my point to you, that it is an opportunity for great love to be there with someone in their time of need. If that is dying from smoking so be it.
The spin you put on being with your loved one in that capacity didn't seem to approach the challenge in a positive way. Perhaps I took that wrong. I apologize if so, it seemed a little high horse ish.
Would you rather a loved one not suffer, of course. Would you rather they lived their life in a perfect way so as to remain healthy as long as possible? Sure, but that is not in our control nor should it be.
My sister passed from throat cancer 5 years ago. She was the ripe old age of 58, that's 3 short years older than I am now.
Would I like her to still be walking the earth? yes,
was it her choice to smoke and drink? yes and to not quit when advised? yes.
Was it a lesson learned for her on the other side? yes.
Did she know how very much I loved and accepted her and her choices? yes.
This life lesson has also taught me much.
We must think for ourselves in this life and learn from our mistakes.
To all those that jumped on the 12 hour thingy.....
yes I feel it is extremely hard for a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking, not impossible but very stressful and why should they?... where is the compromise there?
The non smokers are saying they should go 12 hours because they don't want to compromise.
It doesn't matter that the smokers have designated areas or are not able to smoke in restaurants bars or the workplace.
They want it their way no no way.They want to do away with it.
They do not want to see a cigarette, basically that's what it comes down to.
Abolish the right to smoke in public.
Fast forward a few years and then perhaps one step further, the insurances costs to take care of ill smokers is a burden...a very good reason to abolish it and make it illegal all together.
One right gone.
This of course worries an open minded person because what will be the next right taken away?
Who will be targeted next in a society of the perfect?
Perhaps those that listen to loud music...
The non smokers will not agree with me,
my stance.... let the smokers have their areas to smoke and keep the right to smoke in public,
the non smokers are on the road to remove choice.
Without compromise there is no reason.... what follows is a mind that is closed to the subject
and as we see here, the heart soon loses it's compassion.
and then everybody sucks
Thank you Cosmo. I wish everyone was like you. I feel that if I was a smoker, this is how I would act too.
haha
great attitude!!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The smokers do have a choice, to smoke or not to smoke.
And they choose to smoke (or simply don't have the will power to do otherwise). Let 'em, as it's still legal. Jumping on the bandwagon to crucify public smoking has no ground as long as cigarettes are still legal. Not to mention, it just divides us even further. Is that really what we all want?
Let me ask you a question...let's say a company allows their employees to smoke in their facility. When an employee comes down with cancer that didn't smoke, what do you think happens?
Now, let's say the company only allows smoking in a designated area. Now an employee that doesn't smoke ends up getting some form of cancer related to smoke...what do you think happens?
The first priority needs to be on the health and safety of all employees not their convenience. In addition, the company must also protect itself from the ridiculous lawsuits that pop up everywhere.
'give an inch take a mile' is the name of the game.
actually if I read your post right you and I agree :shock: as long as the smokers stay in the
designated smoker areas you are ok with it...
you are not looking for a public ban on the public streets
if I got that right,
not that smokers can only smoke in their homes, as some are proposing.
But you are ignoring the fact that people CAN smoke away from home - JUST NOT IN PUBLIC PLACES WHERE IT BOTHERS OTHER PEOPLE, which is the point of the analogies. There are MANY, many freedoms we have that are regulated so as not to infringe upon the rights of others. Why should smoking be any exception?? Why should smokers get special treatment? And how the hell is that a compromise? :?
Just because condescension comes from your heart does not make it any less condescending. And since you are continuing to do it, I'll go ahead and respond:
How dare you presume to have the knowledge or the right to judge the relationship I have with my own twin sister?!?! - or anyone else, for that matter? She tells me how to live my life and I tell her how to live hers and it's none of your fucking business. You don't know the first thing about us or our love for each other or what we do for each other, and yet you're going to sit up on your high horse and lecture me about what I'm going to take from this world and opportunities for great love to be with her in her time of need?? I have been with her in her time of need from fucking CONCEPTION and I will be with her in her time of need until she is dead and buried, whether from smoking or anything else - and she knows this and chooses to possibly put me and my future family in a situation that would cause us years of suffering, as our (unknowing) great-grandfather inadvertently did to our great-grandmother. I have every right to be unhappy about her decision to smoke for this and many other reasons.
But one thing you don't seem to understand - regarding my sister or smoking in general - is that disapproving of a person's decision to smoke does not in any way preclude feeling compassion for them and their addiction. (I think I'm gong to put that in bold, because it seems to be an important missing link in this conversation.) So your presumption that people who disapprove of others' decisions to subject them to second-hand smoke - and note that here we're not even talking about people's decisions to smoke in general - lack understanding and empathy is misguided at best and, some might say, even offensive.
I think your steadfast judgment of people who believe everyone has a right to not be subjected to secondhand smoke against their will precludes any understanding of what they are actually saying.
For one thing, no one is refusing to compromise here (that I have seen). We are paying an extra $10 BILLION in taxes so people exercise their so-called right to smoke. We are having to move into apartments and buy cars previously inhabited/owned by smokers and deal with the residual stink for years. (I lived in my last apartment for 3 years and could never get the smell out of the drapes.) We are made to close our home and car windows so others can smoke in their homes and cars with their windows open. We are putting up with the tobacco industry to preying on us and our children (yes, I know they're not supposed to, but they do). We have to sit next to crazy-stinky people in offices, at school, on planes, etc. Many of us still pick up the slack for smokers taking extra breaks at work. (They can still do this even if they have to smoke in their cars, so I don't know what you're going on about.) I could go on... My point is that we compromise PLENTY already without having to also sacrifice the air in public places. You asked where's the compromise... there it is.
Let me ask you this: Do you think people should be able to smoke outside the doors of hospitals? Outdoors at children's amusement parks? Do you think there should be some line drawn for the protection of others, or is looking out for the well-being of patients and children still too uncompromising for you?
Secondly, no one has said smokers should be "forced" to go 12 hours without smoking or that we are trying to do away with it altogether. (And I'm surprised by your blatant misrepresentation of the truth. "They don't want to SEE a cigarette"?? Are you fucking kidding with that?) We have just said that they should do it in a way that doesn't subject others to it. They can have all the designated smoking areas they want as long as it doesn't affect others. Or let them smoke in their cars. Let them invent self-cleaning bubbles that go around their head when they smoke. Again, people can smoke all they want to - I don't give a damn, as long as they leave me out of it.
Third, "Who will be targeted next in this society of the perfect?" "The non-smokers are on the road to remove choice"?? That's not a sensational misrepresentation at all! :roll: Are you fucking kidding?? :? You seem to be saying that if people aren't conspiracy theorists they're not open-minded people. Really?? NO ONE is calling for the abolition of smoking; it's sad that people can't understand the difference. Don't forget that many, many non-smokers support the legalization of weed, by the way.
And again with saying we lack compassion?? That's getting pretty old and, not that you care, but it's causing me to lose all respect I used to have for you. I think it's your mind that it closed on the subject.
I don't understand why you think a certain amount of regulation is appropriate but a different amount is suddenly an infringement on the rights of smokers by people who seek to crucify them. Someone could just as easily say the same thing about you and your recommended restrictions. I think when it's such a fine and fuzzy line between what you find acceptable and what others find acceptable, you shouldn't be so quick to judge the others. People who live is glass houses and all that...
I just want to point out that as bad as cigarettes are for people in general, no one can make another person quit. It's got to come from within the smoker to decide what they want to do. Think about that with your sister. I know that if someone hated my bad habits, it would not make me stop them. I've got to want to quit for me for anything to happen. Give up that need to decide for your sister and she may just make the right decision.
I am angry - not about smoking but about Pandora's (and now your) condescending, self-righteous, making presumptions about stuff you can't possibly understand and that's none of your fucking business lectures. I am unhappy that my sister smokes; I do not have a need to control her and I am aware that no one can make another person quit - and I shouldn't have to explain or justify it to you or anyone else. Please don't talk to me like I'm a child.
If you want to take it as condescending, that's your problem. I was trying to be helpful, and I didn't feel that Pandora's post was condescending either. I've been where you are. I'm just trying to give you some advice. But never mind now.
Well thanks for your good intentions. Presuming that someone needs your advice about how to interact with their own family members when you have absolutely no understanding of the nature of their relationship is pretty fucking condescending though. So is talking to them like they have no experience with or understanding of addiction.
Then don't talk about your family problems if you want us all out of your business. Try to have a good day, ok?
The same goes for smokers. Tell them it's OK to smoke 50 ft outside the entrance, it's not long before they a huddled right outside the door, throwing their butts everywhere. The easiest thing to do is ban outdoor public smoking.
I'm fine with designated areas, i.e. an out of the way smoking lounge. I'm also fine with an employer or proprietor who doesn't want to offer such an area. I'm fine if they do it in their car or in their home as long as they don't expose other (such as children) to it. I don't think smoking should be allowed anywhere in public, where it might bother the mass majority of the population who are non-smokers.
Yet, the mass majority of the population were the smokers up until the last ten or so years. Everyone smoked (except me, I actually tried to like smoking, didn't work). And the popular thing to do was smoke in the 40s through the 70s. Where was the uproar then? Oh,yeah...they were the ones smoking.
we had a out-door smoking area out near the back of the plant so for the most part nobody else needed to go there.
let me ask you something...lets say I am far away from anybody and having a cig, along comes joe blow and wants to talk to me should I A. put out my cig to see what he want's..or B. joe blow can wait till I'm finished smoking to talk me. ? guess what happens..I choose plan B. if joe blow sees me smoking and don't want second hand smoke he should do his best to wait for me or stay away from me..pretty simple right ?
you guys are blowing this stuff way out of proportion,you make sound like smokers are out to kill the world
with 2nd hand smoke and we have no rights at all, just stay away from smokers it's simple.
Godfather.
The bottom line is that many smokers are going to continue to complain because there is a huge change in education and what a typical non-smoker is willing to put up with.
And non-smokers will continue to complain and tighten the noose on smokers rights because it is a huge health concern. I wouldnt be so adamant about not wanting to inhale someone elses smoke if it wasnt a health concern. I don't think it is close-mindedness either, its just being smart.
I enjoy seeing everyones perspectives in here, and the best thing i've learned is that maybe I should approach someone who is smoking an ask nicely for them to stop or move. Unfortunatley, I think many times this wont end well, but who knows? And the most personal situation I've had to deal with was a co-worker in close quarters. Had that guy never been fired, I really can't even imagine what would've/could've happened.
But one other thing I really have been considering is that man ypeople herre throw around terms like "close-mindedness" and "control others"... my answer to this is exactly what I read by Cosmo (who is an ocasional smoker). He is very conscious of his surroundings and how his actions might affect others. This forced me to think like a smoker and realize that I would want to act like him (if I were a smoker) so that I do not have to force my (health detrimental)choices onto another human. Of course, many smokers might not have been a non-smoker since they were teens or very young, so they often don't think like a non-smoker and/or realize how they are negatively affecting people around them.