everybody sucks

pandora

catefrances wrote:

yeah taking away my right to smoke myself to death and inconvenience others would be a total bummer.

yes it would. we have a right to find our own sense, that is what we are doing here, living our own lessons on this journey.
funny how the right to die is ok but then is also not ok I guess ???

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

yeah taking away my right to smoke myself to death and inconvenience others would be a total bummer.

yes it would. we have a right to find our own sense, that is what we are doing here, living our own lessons on this journey.
funny how the right to die is ok but then is also not ok I guess ???

who said its not ok?

would an emoticon have helped to define the sarcasm in my post?

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

yeah taking away my right to smoke myself to death and inconvenience others would be a total bummer.

yes it would. we have a right to find our own sense, that is what we are doing here, living our own lessons on this journey.
funny how the right to die is ok but then is also not ok I guess ???

who said its not ok?

would an emoticon have helped to define the sarcasm in my post?

perhaps sarcasim is the greatest insult... never use it on a child.. it is literal abuse

Smellyman

Do you mind if I smoke?

No, do you mind if I fart?

--Steve Martin

ONCE DEVIDED

Had non smoking venues for a while in Oz
love going to the pub and not comin home smelling like a ashtray. outsides a different story.
feel for those who smoke. they wont ban it as they make too much money in tax so all they do is make it harder on the poor punter.

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

who said its not ok?

would an emoticon have helped to define the sarcasm in my post?

perhaps sarcasim is the greatest insult... never use it on a child.. it is literal abuse

perhaps.. to someone who doesnt get it.


as far as im concerned the greatest insult is assuming someone is stupid and illinformed.

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

Had non smoking venues for a while in Oz
love going to the pub and not comin home smelling like a ashtray. outsides a different story.
feel for those who smoke. they wont ban it as they make too much money in tax so all they do is make it harder on the poor punter.

i love me a smoke free venue. 8-)

mysticweed

"Do you mind if I smoke while you eat?"
a line in deep throat
classic
8-)

TriumphantAngel

Paul David wrote:

see, the thing about it is, all of the other arguments made by people about "why bitch about smoking in bars when you are poisoning your own liver" and "if they ban smoking outside, how long until fat people and people with illnesses". Gimme a fargin' break. Apples and oranges my friends. First of all, my liver has nothing to do with you, and I'm not breathing in anyone else's fat or cancer.

One infringes on my personal space and my right to clean air, the others have no infringement on me whatsoever.

I used to be a smoker. I still do occasionally (when really loaded!). But never, EVER, would I argue that it's my RIGHT to pollute everyone else's air. It's fucking disgusting, and if it bothers someone, I'd move. Inside OR out.

i don't think it's as black and white are you are saying here. i disagree the others have no infringment on you whatsoever.

if someone drinks and jumps in their car and drives they can kill you. it happens every single day. even though you have a right to not be killed by an idiot, it can still happen.

if a morbidly obese person wants to eat macdonalds and other crap till they burst well that's ok too. that's their right. but don't forget those people are taking up hospital beds, visiting doctors, calling on emergency services etc and that puts you next in line. you have to wait your turn and if the macca loving person gets seen to before you and you are in need of emergency treatment then you just need to wait and there is nothing you can do. what those people do in their lives can impact on you one way or another.

catefrances

TriumphantAngel wrote:

Paul David wrote:

see, the thing about it is, all of the other arguments made by people about "why bitch about smoking in bars when you are poisoning your own liver" and "if they ban smoking outside, how long until fat people and people with illnesses". Gimme a fargin' break. Apples and oranges my friends. First of all, my liver has nothing to do with you, and I'm not breathing in anyone else's fat or cancer.

One infringes on my personal space and my right to clean air, the others have no infringement on me whatsoever.

I used to be a smoker. I still do occasionally (when really loaded!). But never, EVER, would I argue that it's my RIGHT to pollute everyone else's air. It's fucking disgusting, and if it bothers someone, I'd move. Inside OR out.

i don't think it's as black and white are you are saying here. i disagree the others have no infringment on you whatsoever.

if someone drinks and jumps in their car and drives they can kill you. it happens every single day. even though you have a right to not be killed by an idiot, it can still happen.

if a morbidly obese person wants to eat macdonalds and other crap till they burst well that's ok too. that's their right. but don't forget those people are taking up hospital beds, visiting doctors, calling on emergency services etc and that puts you next in line. you have to wait your turn and if the macca loving person gets seen to before you and you are in need of emergency treatment then you just need to wait and there is nothing you can do. what those people do in their lives can impact on you one way or another.

well hopefully theyll just explode monty python style and free up an emergency berth.

TriumphantAngel

catefrances wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

Paul David wrote:

see, the thing about it is, all of the other arguments made by people about "why bitch about smoking in bars when you are poisoning your own liver" and "if they ban smoking outside, how long until fat people and people with illnesses". Gimme a fargin' break. Apples and oranges my friends. First of all, my liver has nothing to do with you, and I'm not breathing in anyone else's fat or cancer.

One infringes on my personal space and my right to clean air, the others have no infringement on me whatsoever.

I used to be a smoker. I still do occasionally (when really loaded!). But never, EVER, would I argue that it's my RIGHT to pollute everyone else's air. It's fucking disgusting, and if it bothers someone, I'd move. Inside OR out.

i don't think it's as black and white are you are saying here. i disagree the others have no infringment on you whatsoever.

if someone drinks and jumps in their car and drives they can kill you. it happens every single day. even though you have a right to not be killed by an idiot, it can still happen.

if a morbidly obese person wants to eat macdonalds and other crap till they burst well that's ok too. that's their right. but don't forget those people are taking up hospital beds, visiting doctors, calling on emergency services etc and that puts you next in line. you have to wait your turn and if the macca loving person gets seen to before you and you are in need of emergency treatment then you just need to wait and there is nothing you can do. what those people do in their lives can impact on you one way or another.

well hopefully theyll just explode monty python style and free up an emergency berth.

and disappear in a puff of smoke.

oh the irony.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I was waiting for someone to take it farther than the immediacy of the actual issue. I'm not talking about anything like "eventual ramifications". I'm talking about "here and now". If we want to go into eventuals, we can talk about the taxing of the health care system, the second hand smoke of the parent to the child, etc. I'm talking about the topic of the OP; the person who is subjected to the stranger's second hand smoke. You cannot claim under any circumstances that any person has the right to infringe on that person's right to free breath. It actually IS that black and white.

Not everyone who drinks in the bar I'm in drives home and kills me. Everyone who smokes near me has an immediate effect.

TriumphantAngel wrote:

Paul David wrote:

see, the thing about it is, all of the other arguments made by people about "why bitch about smoking in bars when you are poisoning your own liver" and "if they ban smoking outside, how long until fat people and people with illnesses". Gimme a fargin' break. Apples and oranges my friends. First of all, my liver has nothing to do with you, and I'm not breathing in anyone else's fat or cancer.

One infringes on my personal space and my right to clean air, the others have no infringement on me whatsoever.

I used to be a smoker. I still do occasionally (when really loaded!). But never, EVER, would I argue that it's my RIGHT to pollute everyone else's air. It's fucking disgusting, and if it bothers someone, I'd move. Inside OR out.

i don't think it's as black and white are you are saying here. i disagree the others have no infringment on you whatsoever.

if someone drinks and jumps in their car and drives they can kill you. it happens every single day. even though you have a right to not be killed by an idiot, it can still happen.

if a morbidly obese person wants to eat macdonalds and other crap till they burst well that's ok too. that's their right. but don't forget those people are taking up hospital beds, visiting doctors, calling on emergency services etc and that puts you next in line. you have to wait your turn and if the macca loving person gets seen to before you and you are in need of emergency treatment then you just need to wait and there is nothing you can do. what those people do in their lives can impact on you one way or another.

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

who said its not ok?

would an emoticon have helped to define the sarcasm in my post?

perhaps sarcasim is the greatest insult... never use it on a child.. it is literal abuse

perhaps.. to someone who doesnt get it.


as far as im concerned the greatest insult is assuming someone is stupid and illinformed.

that would be the risk.. a risk that is if you care

catefrances

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

perhaps.. to someone who doesnt get it.


as far as im concerned the greatest insult is assuming someone is stupid and illinformed.

that would be the risk.. a risk that is if you care

i dont. 8-)

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

catefrances wrote:

perhaps.. to someone who doesnt get it.


as far as im concerned the greatest insult is assuming someone is stupid and illinformed.

that would be the risk.. a risk that is if you care

i dont. 8-)

I can tell!

MG79478

pandora wrote:

MG79478 wrote:

This is great; the freedom of the non-smoker prevails!

hmmmm.... what until they take away your rights....never applaud moves like this by our government.
I am a nonsmoker but understand peoples rights to basic freedoms. Smoking outside on the street should be one of them!

Normally I am all for smaller government, less control, etc. (November 2nd can't get here soon enough!) But why are you so concerned with the basic freedoms of the smoker and why are they more important than the basic freedom of the non-smoker? In this case the government hasn't taken anything from me, in fact they are trying to give me something for once! I give so much in to this government and take nothing in return, I'm just glad for once that things might go my way.

I'm surprised the Democrats haven't cashed in on the smoking thing yet. Putting people in to groups, telling them they are oppressed and offering them something for votes is their thing. Plus Obama is a smoker.

pandora

MG79478 wrote:

pandora wrote:

MG79478 wrote:

This is great; the freedom of the non-smoker prevails!

hmmmm.... what until they take away your rights....never applaud moves like this by our government.
I am a nonsmoker but understand peoples rights to basic freedoms. Smoking outside on the street should be one of them!

Normally I am all for smaller government, less control, etc. (November 2nd can't get here soon enough!) But why are you so concerned with the basic freedoms of the smoker and why are they more important than the basic freedom of the non-smoker? In this case the government hasn't taken anything from me, in fact they are trying to give me something for once! I give so much in to this government and take nothing in return, I'm just glad for once that things might go my way.

I'm surprised the Democrats haven't cashed in on the smoking thing yet. Putting people in to groups, telling them they are oppressed and offering them something for votes is their thing. Plus Obama is a smoker.

Becasue the smoker has basic rights... that should be recognized. Hysteria over second hand smoke has taken the laws too far...no shock there... to include open air on the street ???? Smokers pay taxes, are the same human beings as non smokers, yet they are being made to feel something is wrong with them if they choose to smoke, that they have no rights even when they are not endangering others.
In the future this will carry to the overweight, to weed smokers, to people who drink. Its a slow process but just another way to judge and control people for not living their lives the way someone thinks they should.

TriumphantAngel

lol @ the waiting for someone to take it farther than the immediacy of the actual issues. i fell for it, you baited me!

in all seriousness tho, i agree that not everyone who drives after drinking in a bar will kill you, but one person is killed every 39 minutes in the US by a drunk driver. something like 18,000 people a year.

if i had a choice of sitting with a smoker while they had a smoke or jumping into a car with a drunk driver, i know what i would choose.

i'm not a smoker and i'm definitely not defending peoples right to smoke wherever they like as i do think that people who are smokers should be considerate to others when they are smoking. (don't smoke in confined areas or at bus stops etc to use Catefrances example, where you know there is a good chance there will be non smokers because that's just ignorant and selfish). the thing is, smokings pretty much banned from most enclosed areas these days. don't you ever hear people bitching and moaning about smokers just because they can? even when they are not affecting them? i have. that's what i have a problem with.

i've heard people complain at work because they have to walk past the smoking area outside that has been designated for the smokers. even though their workmates are already standing outside, some of them still have to bitch and moan about it. it's simple. don't walk out that door, you don't have to walk past them, take another exit and walk around. it might take a few minutes more but so what. think about how much better it will be for your heart to get that few minutes extra excercise. cause if they are so worried about their health it shouldn't be such a big deal for them.

Paul David wrote:

I was waiting for someone to take it farther than the immediacy of the actual issue. I'm not talking about anything like "eventual ramifications". I'm talking about "here and now". If we want to go into eventuals, we can talk about the taxing of the health care system, the second hand smoke of the parent to the child, etc. I'm talking about the topic of the OP; the person who is subjected to the stranger's second hand smoke. You cannot claim under any circumstances that any person has the right to infringe on that person's right to free breath. It actually IS that black and white.

Not everyone who drinks in the bar I'm in drives home and kills me. Everyone who smokes near me has an immediate effect.

TriumphantAngel wrote:

Paul David wrote:

see, the thing about it is, all of the other arguments made by people about "why bitch about smoking in bars when you are poisoning your own liver" and "if they ban smoking outside, how long until fat people and people with illnesses". Gimme a fargin' break. Apples and oranges my friends. First of all, my liver has nothing to do with you, and I'm not breathing in anyone else's fat or cancer.

One infringes on my personal space and my right to clean air, the others have no infringement on me whatsoever.

I used to be a smoker. I still do occasionally (when really loaded!). But never, EVER, would I argue that it's my RIGHT to pollute everyone else's air. It's fucking disgusting, and if it bothers someone, I'd move. Inside OR out.

i don't think it's as black and white are you are saying here. i disagree the others have no infringment on you whatsoever.

if someone drinks and jumps in their car and drives they can kill you. it happens every single day. even though you have a right to not be killed by an idiot, it can still happen.

if a morbidly obese person wants to eat macdonalds and other crap till they burst well that's ok too. that's their right. but don't forget those people are taking up hospital beds, visiting doctors, calling on emergency services etc and that puts you next in line. you have to wait your turn and if the macca loving person gets seen to before you and you are in need of emergency treatment then you just need to wait and there is nothing you can do. what those people do in their lives can impact on you one way or another.

Godfather.

I tried it once but I diden't inhale. -Bill Clinton
I'm trying to quit so I brought my E-cig to work and with in 2 weeks EH&S banned those also..not that I care
but they said it dosen't look good.......what ?????

Godfather.

Pepe Silvia

pandora wrote:

cippociappo wrote:

pandora wrote:

hmmmm.... what until they take away your rights....never applaud moves like this by our government.
I am a nonsmoker but understand peoples rights to basic freedoms. Smoking outside on the street should be one of them!

Mmm... what about drinking outside on the streets?

signed - an european that lives in the USA

Are you for or against that and how does that relate to smoking? I'm missing the correlation.

sheesh, who took the jam out of your donught?

i think their point was in europe you can walk around with an open container but in the states you can only do it in certain placed like new orleans or certain events and usually you have to buy a wristband or something to allow you to drink.

although, i think a bigger difference is europe has better public transit systems or at least i don't think as many europeans drive home drunk, some countries in europe have pretty stiff drunk driving laws