I smoke and people bitch about secondhand smoke. I dont drive a car yet i have to inhale gas fumes from your car. i walk to work yet i have to inhale fumes from cabs and buses. I will make a deal with everyone that bitches about smokers. I will only smoke in my house if u stop driving and we do away with public transportation. All these people claim they have the right to breathe clean air but there is nothing in the bill of rights about about the right to breathe clean air.
I don't smoke and it gives me a headache but once your outside fk it...your free to do what you want. Barring smoking outdoors is definetely a violation of your rights.
Being able to smoke on the street I think is what we were talking about. I have no problem with smoker sections/ areas, banning in enclosed areas like the workplace/ bars.
I'm a non smoker and feel smokers get trampled on even when they are causing no harm. Its the politically correct thing to do nowadays which is crap.
I don't feel the non smoker wins walking down a public street, sorry that is taking the laws way too far.
If my child had asthma I would not think it was the smoker who should be making concessions in outdoor public areas such as the street. I think that would be up to me to protect my child as I would from ozone, pollutants, and questionable environments.
It's not the PC thing to do, the PC thing to do would be to cater to the much smaller smoking crowd. Political correctness is never associated with the majority.
Maybe I should stand outside of where you work and just as you exit, spray something that smells really terrible. Let say something that smells like skunk. Why would I do such a thing? Doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do, yet neither does smoking. Sure it may really suck for you to have to walk through that terrible odor every day, but I like spraying it. I know it's not the norm, but it's a choice I made and you HAVE to cater to me. That's a bit of an extreme example, but it proves a point. The rights of one person should not infringe upon the rights of another.
just their not spraying it. If someones smoking and you walk by you barely smell it. If you stop and hang out then too freakin bad for you. Think the thought of people smoking is what tees them off not the actual smoke.
Before they banned outdoor smoking where I work, it DID infringe upon the rights of nonsmokers. You can't always get away from it or choose a different path. Inebitably, there are crowds of smokers around every door & on every major walkway. People really are forced to walk through people's smoke all the time, even outdoors. I don't get how some of you are trying to deny that. :?
A private citizen can buy a building and rent out apartments. And he has the right to only rent to non-smokers. Yet a private citizen cant own a bar in new york and choose to have it as a smoking or non-smoking establishment. What is the difference?
I never said anything about smoking on the street.
I said I'm getting sick of people lighting up under no smoking signs, like the ones outside my storefront, where non-smokers have no choice but to walk through a wall of it to get in the door. These are the coffee shop's patrons, not ours, that sit outside and literally smoke all day, it comes in to my store, I have to smell it all day, and I have to hear customers' complaints about it. If you take offense, I'm sorry, but... I don't think i'm being harsh in saying the right for me to not want to smell that shit while i work shouldn't lose to the "right" of the people who want to ignore the no smoking signs they're sitting under...
I'm not sure if that's what the OP is referring to, everyone is assuming its about smoking on the street so I'll go with that... Just my 2 cents.
Hey btw, is the thread title a play on words? Very good one haha
the smokers were forced into that situation, the smokers have as much right as the joggers to use that sidewalk and I agree it's not very polite but there is no where else for the smokers to go at break.
The smokers were forced to smoke? Seems that if they quit, they wouldn't have a problem.
ah ha there you go...knew that was coming.
You see the control here over anothers choice's, correct? that is what it comes down to...you don't like it so don't do it.
This is the basis of the problem and of a ridiculous law to keep people from smoking on the street.
I still believe it is falling under the politically correct, that doesn't have to be a minority or majority it is just lets jump on THE band wagon.
Yes your skunk spray was over the top... Have you ever had the pleasure?
you'd be wishing it was just cig smoke
Unfortunately, our dog did get sprayed by a skunk recently, it was a horrible experience!
I don't see it as a way to control people's choices (if that is what your are trying to say). Anyone over 18 is free to smoke, if they choose to smoke, it should be done in a manner that doesn't affect others. The non-smoker has no choice. They just have to deal with the choices of the smoker. So by not controling the choices of the smoker, you control the choices of the non-smoker. So the minority, who choses to be in that minority, controls the majority?
The only thing that drives me crazy is when people toss their butts out of the window while driving. I cannot stand it. it would be like me throwing a can of soda out the window when I was done. Why is that not considered littering?
I agree 100%, there should be a HUGE fine for doing this, and it should be enforced. Smokers don't mind forcing their smoke on to others; they shouldn't mind leaving the stinky butts in their car.
but second hand smoke is not that bad for other people, especially outside, it's not like smokers blow it in the face of non smokers. its not really impacting other people its just a myth
There is nothing in the constitution about the government providing healthcare, yet they rammed that down our throats.
except the government is not providing anyone with healthcare, they are forcing us to BUY health INSURANCE or be fined, just like with car insurance.
states force car insurance because they have police powers, not the feds.
I hate cigarette smoke more than anything, but if I am following someone on a side walk with a cigarette I can either speed up or slow down to get away from the smoke. Public places are just that, public, you can choose to go there or not, it isn't up to the Government to legislate personal health choices like this...wanna smoke, go ahead, want to eat yourself to diabetes, go ahead, wanna jump off a building with a parachute...who gives a shit what someone else does...
The only thing that drives me crazy is when people toss their butts out of the window while driving. I cannot stand it. it would be like me throwing a can of soda out the window when I was done. Why is that not considered littering?
hay Mike, let me tell you brother in California you don't want to get caught flicking a butt out the car window..
I did twice in less than 3 years, first time was $150 and the second time was $1600 and 3 days of stabbing trash on the highway and was told the next one in less than three would be $3500 and maybe jail time...so I quit smoking in my car 6 years ago ..california don't mess around when it comes to littering fines and yes is considered littering and if the cop wants to bust your balls he can get you for throwing an ignited object out the window and that would be real baaaad :shock:
ah ha there you go...knew that was coming.
You see the control here over anothers choice's, correct? that is what it comes down to...you don't like it so don't do it.
This is the basis of the problem and of a ridiculous law to keep people from smoking on the street.
I still believe it is falling under the politically correct, that doesn't have to be a minority or majority it is just lets jump on THE band wagon.
Yes your skunk spray was over the top... Have you ever had the pleasure?
you'd be wishing it was just cig smoke
Unfortunately, our dog did get sprayed by a skunk recently, it was a horrible experience!
I don't see it as a way to control people's choices (if that is what your are trying to say). Anyone over 18 is free to smoke, if they choose to smoke, it should be done in a manner that doesn't affect others. The non-smoker has no choice. They just have to deal with the choices of the smoker. So by not controling the choices of the smoker, you control the choices of the non-smoker. So the minority, who choses to be in that minority, controls the majority?
The only thing that drives me crazy is when people toss their butts out of the window while driving. I cannot stand it. it would be like me throwing a can of soda out the window when I was done. Why is that not considered littering?
I agree 100%, there should be a HUGE fine for doing this, and it should be enforced. Smokers don't mind forcing their smoke on to others; they shouldn't mind leaving the stinky butts in their car.
Here's a shocker, health is not the top concern for many people, you may not like that nor understand that but its reality for many.
And yes your statement was attempting to control the smoker, this by saying they should just quit if they don't like unreasonable restraints.
Smoking for many controls a nervousness. It is calming, it is enjoyable, a simple pleasure in life.
True it can be an unhealthy option
but for many smokers they live long lives and the stress relieving properties should not be dismissed.
Stress is detrimental not only to the body but the mind and to our relationships.
Smoking, like all vices would do best in moderation,this contolled by the individual.
Some do not want to quit, others struggle, others succeed but this is a right of choice and a right without shame.
Personally I believe the key here is understanding. A dose of acceptance for others.
Perhaps if people don't view smoking as a filthy obscene habit and attempt not to judge those who choose to smoke it would not bother them so.
Again no one here is talking about removing smoking bans for enclosed areas, the workplace or restaurants, entertainment venues. We are talking about outside public areas. Although I believe strictly adult bar atmospheres should be able to retain smoking privileges if the owner chooses to after considering his patrons.
As far as littering, I am a product of the 60's 'Don't be a litterbug' campaign...don't throw anything anywhere!
This campaign worked for my generation. Too bad not the generations to come.
hay Mike, let me tell you brother in California you don't want to get caught flicking a butt out the car window..
I did twice in less than 3 years, first time was $150 and the second time was $1600 and 3 days of stabbing trash on the highway and was told the next one in less than three would be $3500 and maybe jail time...so I quit smoking in my car 6 years ago ..california don't mess around when it comes to littering fines and yes is considered littering and if the cop wants to bust your balls he can get you for throwing an ignited object out the window and that would be real baaaad :shock:
Godfather.
That is awesome for California! I wish they did that here in FL -- so many nasty butts on every corner at a stoplight. Sorry you had to pay out so much, but I guess it worked since you dont smoke in your car anymore.
btw, I was just wondering does anyone live in a place where it is legal to walk around outside with an alcoholic beverage?
Sorry, Pandora, but I think you're really stretching.
First of all, this is not about controlling other people. I'm all about choice - but that includes my choice to not have to walk through a wall of smoke every time I want to enter or leave my workplace. How can you say you support choice by taking ours away?
Secondly, I have compassion for people smoke. Being fortunate to have never made the choice to start, I know I can't really know what it's like to try to quit. I see my friends & loved ones struggle with this every day and I truly feel for them, which is why I support any efforts designed to support people through this. And I don't even think people who don't want to quit are bad people - I just think I should not have to be adversely affected by their decision. Where's the compassion for those of us who have to be accosted by clouds of smoke throughout our day when we're just minding our own business?
If you were a vegetarian, you wouldn't want to be forced to eat meat in order to get into your office every day. Why should we be forced to breathe smoke?
Third, the fact that smoking is relaxing is not relevant to this conversation. You know what else is relaxing? Fucking. But I don't get to go around fucking in public. And that would be even easier for innocent bystanders to avoid.
Also, it's not like anyone is trying to outlaw smoking, though some people are reacting as if this is the case. If they were regulating it because of some moral high ground, they would be trying to prohibit it entirely, like marijuana. All they're trying to do is keep it from infringing upon the rights of others.
You know what else is relaxing? Fucking. But I don't get to go around fucking in public. And that would be even easier for innocent bystanders to avoid.
:shock: Actually, you have a point there...
I aprreciate smokers rights, but you are correct, many smokers could use some discretion as to how it affects non-smokers.
Also, it's not like anyone is trying to outlaw smoking, though some people are reacting as if this is the case. If they were regulating it because of some moral high ground, they would be trying to prohibit it entirely, like marijuana. All they're trying to do is keep it from infringing upon the rights of others.
I agree here, and I'm pretty adamant about not being exposed to second hand smoke because I am highly allergic and my parents were unaware of this until I was about 6yrs old. needless to say, I was sick for a better part of the ages 4-6 because many of may family members smoked. it was the late 70's though and we werent as educated as we are today about it. I can honestly say that there arent many days that go by where I don't smell smoeone elses smoke, and I find it very infringing.
hay Mike, let me tell you brother in California you don't want to get caught flicking a butt out the car window..
I did twice in less than 3 years, first time was $150 and the second time was $1600 and 3 days of stabbing trash on the highway and was told the next one in less than three would be $3500 and maybe jail time...so I quit smoking in my car 6 years ago ..california don't mess around when it comes to littering fines and yes is considered littering and if the cop wants to bust your balls he can get you for throwing an ignited object out the window and that would be real baaaad :shock:
Godfather.
That is awesome for California! I wish they did that here in FL -- so many nasty butts on every corner at a stoplight. Sorry you had to pay out so much, but I guess it worked since you dont smoke in your car anymore.
btw, I was just wondering does anyone live in a place where it is legal to walk around outside with an alcoholic beverage?
yea when I was in court this gal got a $270 (about that) fine and 3 days of stabbing trash for throwing a gum wrapper out the window.
Sorry, Pandora, but I think you're really stretching.
First of all, this is not about controlling other people. I'm all about choice - but that includes my choice to not have to walk through a wall of smoke every time I want to enter or leave my workplace. How can you say you support choice by taking ours away?
Secondly, I have compassion for people smoke. Being fortunate to have never made the choice to start, I know I can't really know what it's like to try to quit. I see my friends & loved ones struggle with this every day and I truly feel for them, which is why I support any efforts designed to support people through this. And I don't even think people who don't want to quit are bad people - I just think I should not have to be adversely affected by their decision. Where's the compassion for those of us who have to be accosted by clouds of smoke throughout our day when we're just minding our own business?
If you were a vegetarian, you wouldn't want to be forced to eat meat in order to get into your office every day. Why should we be forced to breathe smoke?
Third, the fact that smoking is relaxing is not relevant to this conversation. You know what else is relaxing? Fucking. But I don't get to go around fucking in public. And that would be even easier for innocent bystanders to avoid.
Well perhaps we will need plastic walls separating each other soon, little bubbles to move about in
Because you get a whiff of smoke occasionally in open air is that not something you can do for someone else?
If smokers are banned from smoking inside at work, and you say outside too, where do you propose they smoke for the half or more of waking hours of their day that they are away from home? Your answer... who cares let them go without?
I say just give a little it feels good!
No stretch here except the stretch some nonsmokers are proposing to take. It is a stretch from common sense.
I would think a proposal to your office manager to have an additional entrance provided for you and anyone that can't stand a whiff of smoke might be a wonderful compromise.
And to the vegetarian, what if there is no option for veggies? Forced to eat meat because the meat eaters took the veggies away..no place for a vegetarian, no food choices. Same thing just different perspective as to who is in control of another.
I could speak to the sex thing but I think I'll leave that one lie You would have a lot of supporters here for that I think
yea when I was in court this gal got a $270 (about that) fine and 3 days of stabbing trash for throwing a gum wrapper out the window.
Godfather.
I lived in San Diego for almost four years and the one thing I noticed about the SoCal police is that they are extremely effective in going after taxpayers for almost any conceivable fine (especially in Orange County). Be it litter, talking on a cell-phone, click-it or ticket, parking, jay-walking, no front plates, etc.
Yet as effective as they are in accessing fines, they seemed to be rather ineffective in one other key area: fighting actual crime.
I never went to Compton for fear of being a victim of violent crime and I never went to Burbank for fear of having the local police force rape my pocketbook. Luckily for me, I lived in a surfing community that didn't have money or crime, thus no need for the police.
but second hand smoke is not that bad for other people, especially outside, it's not like smokers blow it in the face of non smokers. its not really impacting other people its just a myth
You are only considering the impact of smoke to a "normal" person. Don't forget those who are allergic to it, or have asthma. Lastly, it just plain stinks.
And yes your statement was attempting to control the smoker, this by saying they should just quit if they don't like unreasonable restraints.
For every burden you want to remove from ~20% of the population, you add burden for the other 80%. Again, a 20% that chooses to be a part of that 20%. If they don't like the control that their choices forces upon them, then they can quit smoking.
Also, it's not like anyone is trying to outlaw smoking, though some people are reacting as if this is the case. If they were regulating it because of some moral high ground, they would be trying to prohibit it entirely, like marijuana. All they're trying to do is keep it from infringing upon the rights of others.
I pretty much agree with everything you say in all your posts!
If smokers are banned from smoking inside at work, and you say outside too, where do you propose they smoke for the half or more of waking hours of their day that they are away from home? Your answer... who cares let them go without?
I say just give a little it feels good!
No stretch here except the stretch some nonsmokers are proposing to take. It is a stretch from common sense.
I would think a proposal to your office manager to have an additional entrance provided for you and anyone that can't stand a whiff of smoke might be a wonderful compromise.
They could smoke in their car, or if the employer wanted to cater to that special small subset of people, then they could have a designated smoking area. Let the smokers give a little!
This brings up a whole other point about smoking in the workplace. You see some smokers taking a smoke break upwards of once an hour! What a drag on productivity, especially in an office environment! I could definitly understand if a company would not want to hire a smoker. Let alone the cost of adding another entrance to accomodate smokers!
kinda odd that this group of weirdos from that(self proclaimed) church can disrespect the family's of the passed solders and sling crap like God hates fags but I can't smoke in a bar. life is wonderfully strange sometimes.
If smokers are banned from smoking inside at work, and you say outside too, where do you propose they smoke for the half or more of waking hours of their day that they are away from home? Your answer... who cares let them go without?
I say just give a little it feels good!
No stretch here except the stretch some nonsmokers are proposing to take. It is a stretch from common sense.
I would think a proposal to your office manager to have an additional entrance provided for you and anyone that can't stand a whiff of smoke might be a wonderful compromise.
They could smoke in their car, or if the employer wanted to cater to that special small subset of people, then they could have a designated smoking area. Let the smokers give a little!
This brings up a whole other point about smoking in the workplace. You see some smokers taking a smoke break upwards of once an hour! What a drag on productivity, especially in an office environment! I could definitly understand if a company would not want to hire a smoker. Let alone the cost of adding another entrance to accomodate smokers!
The smokers are giving up as they should, its the non smokers trying to take it to the point of being ridiculous.
Can't smoke in your car if you use pubic transit and yes of course designated areas to smoke, none of us are saying otherwise but smoking on the street also...a ok!
If an employer has a problem with too many breaks for whatever reason ( and I am an employer) then they just designate break times, no brainer.
And productivity, I want my employees focused not stressed out cause they can't have a cig. We want people happy if possible. Accepting of others would be nice too.
I don't discriminate against people for how they live their lives or what they choose to do on their personal time. And I do not hire based on what these choices are.
If it were my employees fusing about having to walk through a little smoke outside the building I would try to work a compromise out, yes with an extra entrance.
But I would probably lean towards the fact that the nonsmokers should get over a 5 second whiff because they work in a smoke free environment 8 hours a day and can concede to a little smoke outside the building.
The smokers already are conceding, they are going without for hours on the job and then taking it outside whatever the weather.
A few years ago I had a terrible experience with a co-worker. I worked in a room with him that was about 250 square feet.. kinda large room. He took so many breaks it drove me crazy though.
But after a few weeks after he was hired, he started wearing sandals and smoking more. These sandals and the combination of his sweaty, stinky feet made my stomach turn. In addition, his clothes were immersed in smoke. As I said before, I am allergic, and found myself mith a headache before lunch everyday. This kid was one day away from getting fired after many, many warnings about his smells and tardiness. He quit the day he was supposed to be fired. I think he sensed it coming.
My point is, even though there are smoking areas, with so many breaks in the day, some people still carry the smoke with them everywhere they go. I know this is getting picky, but it still affects people with allergies. If I were a business owner, I would be forced to think hard about hiring someone with a smoking habit that required a daily/hourly fix.
A few years ago I had a terrible experience with a co-worker. I worked in a room with him that was about 250 square feet.. kinda large room. He took so many breaks it drove me crazy though.
But after a few weeks after he was hired, he started wearing sandals and smoking more. These sandals and the combination of his sweaty, stinky feet made my stomach turn. In addition, his clothes were immersed in smoke. As I said before, I am allergic, and found myself mith a headache before lunch everyday. This kid was one day away from getting fired after many, many warnings about his smells and tardiness. He quit the day he was supposed to be fired. I think he sensed it coming.
My point is, even though there are smoking areas, with so many breaks in the day, some people still carry the smoke with them everywhere they go. I know this is getting picky, but it still affects people with allergies. If I were a business owner, I would be forced to think hard about hiring someone with a smoking habit that required a daily/hourly fix.
I would be more concerned with hiring people that are team players, those that work well with others even though thats challenging at times.
If the fellow you mentioned had good work ethic, presented himself well, which you are saying he didn't, but if he did, if the only problem was he smelled of smoke, I would think it would be on you to control your allergy problem.
Sorry, Pandora, but I think you're really stretching.
First of all, this is not about controlling other people. I'm all about choice - but that includes my choice to not have to walk through a wall of smoke every time I want to enter or leave my workplace. How can you say you support choice by taking ours away?
Secondly, I have compassion for people smoke. Being fortunate to have never made the choice to start, I know I can't really know what it's like to try to quit. I see my friends & loved ones struggle with this every day and I truly feel for them, which is why I support any efforts designed to support people through this. And I don't even think people who don't want to quit are bad people - I just think I should not have to be adversely affected by their decision. Where's the compassion for those of us who have to be accosted by clouds of smoke throughout our day when we're just minding our own business?
If you were a vegetarian, you wouldn't want to be forced to eat meat in order to get into your office every day. Why should we be forced to breathe smoke?
Third, the fact that smoking is relaxing is not relevant to this conversation. You know what else is relaxing? Fucking. But I don't get to go around fucking in public. And that would be even easier for innocent bystanders to avoid.
Well perhaps we will need plastic walls separating each other soon, little bubbles to move about in
Because you get a whiff of smoke occasionally in open air is that not something you can do for someone else?
If smokers are banned from smoking inside at work, and you say outside too, where do you propose they smoke for the half or more of waking hours of their day that they are away from home? Your answer... who cares let them go without?
I say just give a little it feels good!
No stretch here except the stretch some nonsmokers are proposing to take. It is a stretch from common sense.
I would think a proposal to your office manager to have an additional entrance provided for you and anyone that can't stand a whiff of smoke might be a wonderful compromise.
And to the vegetarian, what if there is no option for veggies? Forced to eat meat because the meat eaters took the veggies away..no place for a vegetarian, no food choices. Same thing just different perspective as to who is in control of another.
I could speak to the sex thing but I think I'll leave that one lie You would have a lot of supporters here for that I think
But I think you make it seem more benign than it is. If I have to frequently walk through other people's smoke, I smell like smoke. It's not a temporary event that is quickly over. The smoke continues to follow me on my clothes and hair. The only way to get it out is to wash my hair and clothes. It costs me about $40 & about 4 hours a month to wash my hair twice a week. If I had to wash it every day that would cost me, what?, an extra $80 & 8 hours a month? So I would lose about $1000 & 12 work-day equivalents every year so others can have the privilege of smoking around me?? How is that benign? How does that infringe on my rights? Why should I be subjected to that? And that's not even considering the extra cost & time of washing my laundry, paying more taxes for people's medical care, feeling nauseated from the smoke, etc. The bottom line is, when people smoke around non-smokers, the non-smokers have to pay for it in many ways. And, no, that's not something I'm willing to do for other people who didn't have the courtesy to not smoke around me to begin with.
And don't even get me started about all the thousands of acres of forest and people's homes that are lost every year where I live due to people flicking cigarettes out of their cars. People actually die fighting these fires. People lose their homes and their lifetime's worth of possessions. I'd love to see someone walk up to the families of the dead firefighters and the people who have lost their homes and the animals who have been displaced and tell them about smokers' rights. :evil:
As for your question about where people smoke - they go to their cars or off the university property. But, truly, it's true that I don't care. We don't have any more obligation to provide smoking areas for people than we have to provide drinking areas, heroin shooting areas, or - yes, I'll say it again - fucking areas. If I have to go without a drink and a lay for 8 hours a day, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to go without a smoke. (I know, I know... it's addictive. But so are other things people aren't allowed to do at work. And, like I said, I do everything within my power to help people beat the addiction.)
And do you really think it's a compromise for the taxpayers of my state to pay the millions - probably billions - of dollars it would take to construct entirely new entrances to the hundreds of buildings on this campus? Really?? When we can't afford to provide healthcare to children? We should use the money instead to provide separate entrances for smokers?
Vegetables are required to live. Smoking in my face is not.
But I think you make it seem more benign than it is. If I have to frequently walk through other people's smoke, I smell like smoke. It's not a temporary event that is quickly over. The smoke continues to follow me on my clothes and hair. The only way to get it out is to wash my hair and clothes. It costs me about $40 & about 4 hours a month to wash my hair twice a week. If I had to wash it every day that would cost me, what?, an extra $80 & 8 hours a month? So I would lose about $1000 & 12 work-day equivalents every year so others can have the privilege of smoking around me?? How is that benign? How does that infringe on my rights? Why should I be subjected to that? And that's not even considering the extra cost & time of washing my laundry, paying more taxes for people's medical care, feeling nauseated from the smoke, etc. The bottom line is, when people smoke around non-smokers, the non-smokers have to pay for it in many ways. And, no, that's not something I'm willing to do for other people who didn't have the courtesy to not smoke around me to begin with.
And don't even get me started about all the thousands of acres of forest and people's homes that are lost every year where I live due to people flicking cigarettes out of their cars. People actually die fighting these fires. People lose their homes and their lifetime's worth of possessions. I'd love to see someone walk up to the families of the dead firefighters and the people who have lost their homes and the animals who have been displaced and tell them about smokers' rights. :evil:
As for your question about where people smoke - they go to their cars or off the university property. But, truly, it's true that I don't care. We don't have any more obligation to provide smoking areas for people than we have to provide drinking areas, heroin shooting areas, or - yes, I'll say it again - fucking areas. If I have to go without a drink and a lay for 8 hours a day, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to go without a smoke. (I know, I know... it's addictive. But so are other things people aren't allowed to do at work. And, like I said, I do everything within my power to help people beat the addiction.)
And do you really think it's a compromise for the taxpayers of my state to pay the millions - probably billions - of dollars it would take to construct entirely new entrances to the hundreds of buildings on this campus? Really?? When we can't afford to provide healthcare to children? We should use the money instead to provide separate entrances for smokers?
Vegetables are required to live. Smoking in my face is not.
So the smokers you come in contact with are allowed to smoke outside near entrances of the University you work at I take it....?
This a compromise, good,
but now a little better one could be provided where as perhaps a few entrances or
an area a few feet from certain entrances so perhaps you get that 5 second whiff say 1/4 or even 1/8th as much as now. I'm sure a 5 second whiff isn't going to leave you smelling like anything.
That would be a good compromise. You would think that would be cool correct?
You could compromise and have a little bit of smoke come your way?
Please tell me you are willing to compromise.
That all common sense is not lost, that you understand the rights and needs of the smokers too.
Because this the true issue at hand.
If an employer has a problem with too many breaks for whatever reason ( and I am an employer) then they just designate break times, no brainer.
It's not so easy if you manage professionals. You can go for days or weeks without actually talking to your direct reports. You can manage people across the country and across the world that you rarely ever see. But because they are professionals, they don't need to be babysat. They are salaried and don't have much oversight. So a designated break time is not a "no brainer". Heaven forbid you have to sit next to one of those ashtrays!
That all common sense is not lost, that you understand the rights and needs of the smokers too. Because this the true issue at hand.
Smokers have all the same rights as non-smokers. Smokers should not have any special rights that infringe on the rights of the non smoker. If you choose to smoke, or drink, or whatever, do it so it doesn’t impact others, and follow the laws, or quit.
A few years ago I had a terrible experience with a co-worker. I worked in a room with him that was about 250 square feet.. kinda large room. He took so many breaks it drove me crazy though.
But after a few weeks after he was hired, he started wearing sandals and smoking more. These sandals and the combination of his sweaty, stinky feet made my stomach turn. In addition, his clothes were immersed in smoke. As I said before, I am allergic, and found myself mith a headache before lunch everyday. This kid was one day away from getting fired after many, many warnings about his smells and tardiness. He quit the day he was supposed to be fired. I think he sensed it coming.
My point is, even though there are smoking areas, with so many breaks in the day, some people still carry the smoke with them everywhere they go. I know this is getting picky, but it still affects people with allergies. If I were a business owner, I would be forced to think hard about hiring someone with a smoking habit that required a daily/hourly fix.
I would be more concerned with hiring people that are team players, those that work well with others even though thats challenging at times.
If the fellow you mentioned had good work ethic, presented himself well, which you are saying he didn't, but if he did, if the only problem was he smelled of smoke, I would think it would be on you to control your allergy problem.
Well, he wasnt a good emplyee.
But if he was a good employee, he would have had to go. The office wasnt big enough to move him, and he was infringing on my ability to work. You honestly think that if he was a good emplyee that it would be MY RESPONSIBILITY to control my allergies?! :shock:
If an employer has a problem with too many breaks for whatever reason ( and I am an employer) then they just designate break times, no brainer.
It's not so easy if you manage professionals. You can go for days or weeks without actually talking to your direct reports. You can manage people across the country and across the world that you rarely ever see. But because they are professionals, they don't need to be babysat. They are salaried and don't have much oversight. So a designated break time is not a "no brainer". Heaven forbid you have to sit next to one of those ashtrays!
That all common sense is not lost, that you understand the rights and needs of the smokers too. Because this the true issue at hand.
Smokers have all the same rights as non-smokers. Smokers should not have any special rights that infringe on the rights of the non smoker. If you choose to smoke, or drink, or whatever, do it so it doesn’t impact others, and follow the laws, or quit.
The smokers are smoking in designated areas. They have been banned from smoking in the workplace and in restaurants, bars etc. and yet some will not be satisfied until all right to smoke has been taken from people.
We are talking about people who complain about smokers smoking in their own designated areas. This is wrong and without reason.
What is happening is.... common sense and reason is gone and it is being replaced with hate.
A mind closes to compromise and the heart follows.
As far as the "ashtray" comment ... you didn't just call a person that right?
Hopefully you meant sitting next to someones ashtray, in which case just move it.
Thats what I do if I'm out and about, whats the deal?
I think someone here or somewhere mentioned about complaining.
Complaining becomes a habit, it is the way in which you look at things negatively.
I say try to see things positively.
Next time you see a smoker, give him a tic tac and tell you love em...but mean it!
Or how about just look the other way?
The smokers are smoking in designated areas. They have been banned from smoking in the workplace and in restaurants, bars etc. and yet some will not be satisfied until all right to smoke has been taken from people.
We are talking about people who complain about smokers smoking in their own designated areas. This is wrong and without reason.
What is happening is.... common sense and reason is gone and it is being replaced with hate.
A mind closes to compromise and the heart follows.
As far as the "ashtray" comment ... you didn't just call a person that right?
Hopefully you meant sitting next to someones ashtray, in which case just move it.
Thats what I do if I'm out and about, whats the deal?
I think someone here or somewhere mentioned about complaining.
Complaining becomes a habit, it is the way in which you look at things negatively.
I say try to see things positively.
Next time you see a smoker, give him a tic tac and tell you love em...but mean it!
Or how about just look the other way?
P, you've basically echoed this throughout, but it seems that no one is picking up. What happened to just dealing with people's vices and making our own choices rather than have this need to try and control other people's behavior? And I don't smoke! Live and let live.
A few years ago I had a terrible experience with a co-worker. I worked in a room with him that was about 250 square feet.. kinda large room. He took so many breaks it drove me crazy though.
But after a few weeks after he was hired, he started wearing sandals and smoking more. These sandals and the combination of his sweaty, stinky feet made my stomach turn. In addition, his clothes were immersed in smoke. As I said before, I am allergic, and found myself mith a headache before lunch everyday. This kid was one day away from getting fired after many, many warnings about his smells and tardiness. He quit the day he was supposed to be fired. I think he sensed it coming.
My point is, even though there are smoking areas, with so many breaks in the day, some people still carry the smoke with them everywhere they go. I know this is getting picky, but it still affects people with allergies. If I were a business owner, I would be forced to think hard about hiring someone with a smoking habit that required a daily/hourly fix.
I would be more concerned with hiring people that are team players, those that work well with others even though thats challenging at times.
If the fellow you mentioned had good work ethic, presented himself well, which you are saying he didn't, but if he did, if the only problem was he smelled of smoke, I would think it would be on you to control your allergy problem.
Well, he wasnt a good emplyee.
But if he was a good employee, he would have had to go. The office wasnt big enough to move him, and he was infringing on my ability to work. You honestly think that if he was a good emplyee that it would be MY RESPONSIBILITY to control my allergies?! :shock:
Of course, it is you with the health problem, why would it be up to others to keep you well?
Let me ask you..when you say you would not hire an employee who smokes...how about an employer who says no I'm not hiring someone with allergies? No way. Geez that drives me crazy.. coughing, hacking, whatever.
You didn't get this person " gone "cause it was his work performance but you would have been comfortable having him lose his job because you had allergies? because you didn't like the way he smelled? Give me a break.
Thats just wrong. Do you not see the hypocrisy and the total disregard for another?
Comments
just their not spraying it. If someones smoking and you walk by you barely smell it. If you stop and hang out then too freakin bad for you. Think the thought of people smoking is what tees them off not the actual smoke.
I never said anything about smoking on the street.
I said I'm getting sick of people lighting up under no smoking signs, like the ones outside my storefront, where non-smokers have no choice but to walk through a wall of it to get in the door. These are the coffee shop's patrons, not ours, that sit outside and literally smoke all day, it comes in to my store, I have to smell it all day, and I have to hear customers' complaints about it. If you take offense, I'm sorry, but... I don't think i'm being harsh in saying the right for me to not want to smell that shit while i work shouldn't lose to the "right" of the people who want to ignore the no smoking signs they're sitting under...
I'm not sure if that's what the OP is referring to, everyone is assuming its about smoking on the street so I'll go with that... Just my 2 cents.
Hey btw, is the thread title a play on words? Very good one haha
LOL!!!
Godfather.
I don't see it as a way to control people's choices (if that is what your are trying to say). Anyone over 18 is free to smoke, if they choose to smoke, it should be done in a manner that doesn't affect others. The non-smoker has no choice. They just have to deal with the choices of the smoker. So by not controling the choices of the smoker, you control the choices of the non-smoker. So the minority, who choses to be in that minority, controls the majority? I agree 100%, there should be a HUGE fine for doing this, and it should be enforced. Smokers don't mind forcing their smoke on to others; they shouldn't mind leaving the stinky butts in their car.
hay Mike, let me tell you brother in California you don't want to get caught flicking a butt out the car window..
I did twice in less than 3 years, first time was $150 and the second time was $1600 and 3 days of stabbing trash on the highway and was told the next one in less than three would be $3500 and maybe jail time...so I quit smoking in my car 6 years ago
Godfather.
Here's a shocker, health is not the top concern for many people, you may not like that nor understand that but its reality for many.
And yes your statement was attempting to control the smoker, this by saying they should just quit if they don't like unreasonable restraints.
Smoking for many controls a nervousness. It is calming, it is enjoyable, a simple pleasure in life.
True it can be an unhealthy option
but for many smokers they live long lives and the stress relieving properties should not be dismissed.
Stress is detrimental not only to the body but the mind and to our relationships.
Smoking, like all vices would do best in moderation,this contolled by the individual.
Some do not want to quit, others struggle, others succeed but this is a right of choice and a right without shame.
Personally I believe the key here is understanding. A dose of acceptance for others.
Perhaps if people don't view smoking as a filthy obscene habit and attempt not to judge those who choose to smoke it would not bother them so.
Again no one here is talking about removing smoking bans for enclosed areas, the workplace or restaurants, entertainment venues. We are talking about outside public areas. Although I believe strictly adult bar atmospheres should be able to retain smoking privileges if the owner chooses to after considering his patrons.
As far as littering, I am a product of the 60's 'Don't be a litterbug' campaign...don't throw anything anywhere!
This campaign worked for my generation. Too bad not the generations to come.
That is awesome for California! I wish they did that here in FL -- so many nasty butts on every corner at a stoplight. Sorry you had to pay out so much, but I guess it worked since you dont smoke in your car anymore.
btw, I was just wondering does anyone live in a place where it is legal to walk around outside with an alcoholic beverage?
First of all, this is not about controlling other people. I'm all about choice - but that includes my choice to not have to walk through a wall of smoke every time I want to enter or leave my workplace. How can you say you support choice by taking ours away?
Secondly, I have compassion for people smoke. Being fortunate to have never made the choice to start, I know I can't really know what it's like to try to quit. I see my friends & loved ones struggle with this every day and I truly feel for them, which is why I support any efforts designed to support people through this. And I don't even think people who don't want to quit are bad people - I just think I should not have to be adversely affected by their decision. Where's the compassion for those of us who have to be accosted by clouds of smoke throughout our day when we're just minding our own business?
If you were a vegetarian, you wouldn't want to be forced to eat meat in order to get into your office every day. Why should we be forced to breathe smoke?
Third, the fact that smoking is relaxing is not relevant to this conversation. You know what else is relaxing? Fucking. But I don't get to go around fucking in public. And that would be even easier for innocent bystanders to avoid.
:shock:
I aprreciate smokers rights, but you are correct, many smokers could use some discretion as to how it affects non-smokers.
I agree here, and I'm pretty adamant about not being exposed to second hand smoke because I am highly allergic and my parents were unaware of this until I was about 6yrs old. needless to say, I was sick for a better part of the ages 4-6 because many of may family members smoked. it was the late 70's though and we werent as educated as we are today about it. I can honestly say that there arent many days that go by where I don't smell smoeone elses smoke, and I find it very infringing.
yea when I was in court this gal got a $270 (about that) fine and 3 days of stabbing trash for throwing a gum wrapper out the window.
Godfather.
Because you get a whiff of smoke occasionally in open air is that not something you can do for someone else?
If smokers are banned from smoking inside at work, and you say outside too, where do you propose they smoke for the half or more of waking hours of their day that they are away from home? Your answer... who cares let them go without?
I say just give a little it feels good!
No stretch here except the stretch some nonsmokers are proposing to take. It is a stretch from common sense.
I would think a proposal to your office manager to have an additional entrance provided for you and anyone that can't stand a whiff of smoke might be a wonderful compromise.
And to the vegetarian, what if there is no option for veggies? Forced to eat meat because the meat eaters took the veggies away..no place for a vegetarian, no food choices. Same thing just different perspective as to who is in control of another.
I could speak to the sex thing but I think I'll leave that one lie
Yet as effective as they are in accessing fines, they seemed to be rather ineffective in one other key area: fighting actual crime.
I never went to Compton for fear of being a victim of violent crime and I never went to Burbank for fear of having the local police force rape my pocketbook. Luckily for me, I lived in a surfing community that didn't have money or crime, thus no need for the police.
For every burden you want to remove from ~20% of the population, you add burden for the other 80%. Again, a 20% that chooses to be a part of that 20%. If they don't like the control that their choices forces upon them, then they can quit smoking.
I pretty much agree with everything you say in all your posts!
They could smoke in their car, or if the employer wanted to cater to that special small subset of people, then they could have a designated smoking area. Let the smokers give a little!
This brings up a whole other point about smoking in the workplace. You see some smokers taking a smoke break upwards of once an hour! What a drag on productivity, especially in an office environment! I could definitly understand if a company would not want to hire a smoker. Let alone the cost of adding another entrance to accomodate smokers!
Godfather.
Can't smoke in your car if you use pubic transit and yes of course designated areas to smoke, none of us are saying otherwise but smoking on the street also...a ok!
If an employer has a problem with too many breaks for whatever reason ( and I am an employer) then they just designate break times, no brainer.
And productivity, I want my employees focused not stressed out cause they can't have a cig. We want people happy if possible. Accepting of others would be nice too.
I don't discriminate against people for how they live their lives or what they choose to do on their personal time. And I do not hire based on what these choices are.
If it were my employees fusing about having to walk through a little smoke outside the building I would try to work a compromise out, yes with an extra entrance.
But I would probably lean towards the fact that the nonsmokers should get over a 5 second whiff because they work in a smoke free environment 8 hours a day and can concede to a little smoke outside the building.
The smokers already are conceding, they are going without for hours on the job and then taking it outside whatever the weather.
But after a few weeks after he was hired, he started wearing sandals and smoking more. These sandals and the combination of his sweaty, stinky feet made my stomach turn. In addition, his clothes were immersed in smoke. As I said before, I am allergic, and found myself mith a headache before lunch everyday. This kid was one day away from getting fired after many, many warnings about his smells and tardiness. He quit the day he was supposed to be fired. I think he sensed it coming.
My point is, even though there are smoking areas, with so many breaks in the day, some people still carry the smoke with them everywhere they go. I know this is getting picky, but it still affects people with allergies. If I were a business owner, I would be forced to think hard about hiring someone with a smoking habit that required a daily/hourly fix.
If the fellow you mentioned had good work ethic, presented himself well, which you are saying he didn't, but if he did, if the only problem was he smelled of smoke, I would think it would be on you to control your allergy problem.
But I think you make it seem more benign than it is. If I have to frequently walk through other people's smoke, I smell like smoke. It's not a temporary event that is quickly over. The smoke continues to follow me on my clothes and hair. The only way to get it out is to wash my hair and clothes. It costs me about $40 & about 4 hours a month to wash my hair twice a week. If I had to wash it every day that would cost me, what?, an extra $80 & 8 hours a month? So I would lose about $1000 & 12 work-day equivalents every year so others can have the privilege of smoking around me?? How is that benign? How does that infringe on my rights? Why should I be subjected to that? And that's not even considering the extra cost & time of washing my laundry, paying more taxes for people's medical care, feeling nauseated from the smoke, etc. The bottom line is, when people smoke around non-smokers, the non-smokers have to pay for it in many ways. And, no, that's not something I'm willing to do for other people who didn't have the courtesy to not smoke around me to begin with.
And don't even get me started about all the thousands of acres of forest and people's homes that are lost every year where I live due to people flicking cigarettes out of their cars. People actually die fighting these fires. People lose their homes and their lifetime's worth of possessions. I'd love to see someone walk up to the families of the dead firefighters and the people who have lost their homes and the animals who have been displaced and tell them about smokers' rights. :evil:
As for your question about where people smoke - they go to their cars or off the university property. But, truly, it's true that I don't care. We don't have any more obligation to provide smoking areas for people than we have to provide drinking areas, heroin shooting areas, or - yes, I'll say it again - fucking areas. If I have to go without a drink and a lay for 8 hours a day, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to go without a smoke. (I know, I know... it's addictive. But so are other things people aren't allowed to do at work. And, like I said, I do everything within my power to help people beat the addiction.)
And do you really think it's a compromise for the taxpayers of my state to pay the millions - probably billions - of dollars it would take to construct entirely new entrances to the hundreds of buildings on this campus? Really?? When we can't afford to provide healthcare to children? We should use the money instead to provide separate entrances for smokers?
Vegetables are required to live. Smoking in my face is not.
So the smokers you come in contact with are allowed to smoke outside near entrances of the University you work at I take it....?
This a compromise, good,
but now a little better one could be provided where as perhaps a few entrances or
an area a few feet from certain entrances so perhaps you get that 5 second whiff say 1/4 or even 1/8th as much as now. I'm sure a 5 second whiff isn't going to leave you smelling like anything.
That would be a good compromise. You would think that would be cool correct?
You could compromise and have a little bit of smoke come your way?
Please tell me you are willing to compromise.
That all common sense is not lost, that you understand the rights and needs of the smokers too.
Because this the true issue at hand.
Well, he wasnt a good emplyee.
But if he was a good employee, he would have had to go. The office wasnt big enough to move him, and he was infringing on my ability to work. You honestly think that if he was a good emplyee that it would be MY RESPONSIBILITY to control my allergies?! :shock:
We are talking about people who complain about smokers smoking in their own designated areas. This is wrong and without reason.
What is happening is.... common sense and reason is gone and it is being replaced with hate.
A mind closes to compromise and the heart follows.
As far as the "ashtray" comment ... you didn't just call a person that right?
Hopefully you meant sitting next to someones ashtray, in which case just move it.
Thats what I do if I'm out and about, whats the deal?
I think someone here or somewhere mentioned about complaining.
Complaining becomes a habit, it is the way in which you look at things negatively.
I say try to see things positively.
Next time you see a smoker, give him a tic tac and tell you love em...but mean it!
Or how about just look the other way?
P, you've basically echoed this throughout, but it seems that no one is picking up. What happened to just dealing with people's vices and making our own choices rather than have this need to try and control other people's behavior? And I don't smoke! Live and let live.
Let me ask you..when you say you would not hire an employee who smokes...how about an employer who says no I'm not hiring someone with allergies? No way. Geez that drives me crazy.. coughing, hacking, whatever.
You didn't get this person " gone "cause it was his work performance but you would have been comfortable having him lose his job because you had allergies? because you didn't like the way he smelled? Give me a break.
Thats just wrong. Do you not see the hypocrisy and the total disregard for another?