The smokers are smoking in designated areas. They have been banned from smoking in the workplace and in restaurants, bars etc. and yet some will not be satisfied until all right to smoke has been taken from people.
We are talking about people who complain about smokers smoking in their own designated areas. This is wrong and without reason.
What is happening is.... common sense and reason is gone and it is being replaced with hate.
A mind closes to compromise and the heart follows.
As far as the "ashtray" comment ... you didn't just call a person that right?
Hopefully you meant sitting next to someones ashtray, in which case just move it.
Thats what I do if I'm out and about, whats the deal?
I think someone here or somewhere mentioned about complaining.
Complaining becomes a habit, it is the way in which you look at things negatively.
I say try to see things positively.
Next time you see a smoker, give him a tic tac and tell you love em...but mean it!
Or how about just look the other way?
P, you've basically echoed this throughout, but it seems that no one is picking up. What happened to just dealing with people's vices and making our own choices rather than have this need to try and control other people's behavior? And I don't smoke! Live and let live.
Thank you for your short precise perfectly stated words of wisdom, I needed that.. I don't think I'm alone
But I think you make it seem more benign than it is. If I have to frequently walk through other people's smoke, I smell like smoke. It's not a temporary event that is quickly over. The smoke continues to follow me on my clothes and hair. The only way to get it out is to wash my hair and clothes. It costs me about $40 & about 4 hours a month to wash my hair twice a week. If I had to wash it every day that would cost me, what?, an extra $80 & 8 hours a month? So I would lose about $1000 & 12 work-day equivalents every year so others can have the privilege of smoking around me?? How is that benign? How does that infringe on my rights? Why should I be subjected to that? And that's not even considering the extra cost & time of washing my laundry, paying more taxes for people's medical care, feeling nauseated from the smoke, etc. The bottom line is, when people smoke around non-smokers, the non-smokers have to pay for it in many ways. And, no, that's not something I'm willing to do for other people who didn't have the courtesy to not smoke around me to begin with.
And don't even get me started about all the thousands of acres of forest and people's homes that are lost every year where I live due to people flicking cigarettes out of their cars. People actually die fighting these fires. People lose their homes and their lifetime's worth of possessions. I'd love to see someone walk up to the families of the dead firefighters and the people who have lost their homes and the animals who have been displaced and tell them about smokers' rights. :evil:
As for your question about where people smoke - they go to their cars or off the university property. But, truly, it's true that I don't care. We don't have any more obligation to provide smoking areas for people than we have to provide drinking areas, heroin shooting areas, or - yes, I'll say it again - fucking areas. If I have to go without a drink and a lay for 8 hours a day, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to go without a smoke. (I know, I know... it's addictive. But so are other things people aren't allowed to do at work. And, like I said, I do everything within my power to help people beat the addiction.)
And do you really think it's a compromise for the taxpayers of my state to pay the millions - probably billions - of dollars it would take to construct entirely new entrances to the hundreds of buildings on this campus? Really?? When we can't afford to provide healthcare to children? We should use the money instead to provide separate entrances for smokers?
Vegetables are required to live. Smoking in my face is not.
So the smokers you come in contact with are allowed to smoke outside near entrances of the University you work at I take it....?
This a compromise, good,
but now a little better one could be provided where as perhaps a few entrances or
an area a few feet from certain entrances so perhaps you get that 5 second whiff say 1/4 or even 1/8th as much as now. I'm sure a 5 second whiff isn't going to leave you smelling like anything.
That would be a good compromise. You would think that would be cool correct?
You could compromise and have a little bit of smoke come your way?
Please tell me you are willing to compromise.
That all common sense is not lost, that you understand the rights and needs of the smokers too.
Because this the true issue at hand.
If smokers can do so in a way that doesn't bother other people - whether it be the lasting smell of smoke on the clothes of innocent bystanders, the nausea that some people (myself included) feel when inhaling smoke for even 5 seconds (try inhaling something else horrible for 5 seconds & I think you'll find that 5 seconds isn't as short a time as you seem to think it is), or the exacerbation of illness that occurs when our sick and vulnerable patients have to deal with the secondhand smoke of people who seem to not give a damn - then I don't care what the hell they do. Live and let live, I say. But sometimes "live" for one person interferes with "let live" for others.
But, see, the problem is that these ordinances about staying x number of feet away from entrances has not worked. When we allowed smoking on campus, we had such ordinances - and people still experienced all the things I listed above. Now smoking is banned inside and outside on all of the health sciences campus and all but designated areas on the main campus. (But people still don't have the respect to follow the rules.)
Yes, I am willing to compromise. The compromise is that that I do whatever I want to do in private and smokers can do whatever they want to do in private. I don't want to take away the right of any smoker to smoke. Everyone is still free to smoke 'til their lungs collapse. But, as with many, many other things, they don't have the "right" to do it in a shared public space any more than I have the "right" to shit in a public pool - and shitting is a real biological need. If I want to shit, I have to inconvenience myself to get up into the cold air, go somewhere else, and do it in a private place. And when there is no such private place available - or if I want to be considerate of the other people in the restroom - I have to wait until I get home. Do you think it would be a good compromise for people to be able to shit in a public pool as long as they were x number of feet away from non-shitters?
[Of course, it is you with the health problem, why would it be up to others to keep you well?
Let me ask you..when you say you would not hire an employee who smokes...how about an employer who says no I'm not hiring someone with allergies? No way. Geez that drives me crazy.. coughing, hacking, whatever.
You didn't get this person " gone "cause it was his work performance but you would have been comfortable having him lose his job because you had allergies? because you didn't like the way he smelled? Give me a break.
Thats just wrong. Do you not see the hypocrisy and the total disregard for another?
It isnt about others keeping me well, not even close -- its about others making me sick. My allergy to smoke got inflammed because of a choice this other guy made. In the course of 11 years working at the job, that was a miserable two months for me (the other 10 yres and 10 months were great), and it had nothing to do with MY choice, but EVERYTHING to do with his CHOICE. He could chose not to do it during work hours and things would've been a lot better. I asked him nicely to fix it too (many times), to no avail.
If I was in his position, I would not want to infringe on a co-worker who had problems with me. In fact, I used to eat lunch in the same room with the previous employee and he didnt like the smell of some of my food, so I stopped eating lunch there because I didnt want to infringe on him. thats no different -- see, I don't want to offend others around me.
And I would have absolutely no problem with that guy losing his job because of his habit and the smells that are associated with it. It would ultimatley be his choice though. What else would have fixed the problem? should I have worn a doctors mask? maybe a giant bubble? I could shove cotton swabs in my nostrils. Even if I wasnt allergic It would still be a problem.
I do not see any hypocrisy when you are comparing smoking (choice) to allergies (not a choice).. no way.
Yes, I am willing to compromise. The compromise is that that I do whatever I want to do in private and smokers can do whatever they want to do in private. I don't want to take away the right of any smoker to smoke. Everyone is still free to smoke 'til their lungs collapse. But, as with many, many other things, they don't have the "right" to do it in a shared public space any more than I have the "right" to shit in a public pool - and shitting is a real biological need. If I want to shit, I have to inconvenience myself to get up into the cold air, go somewhere else, and do it in a private place. And when there is no such private place available - or if I want to be considerate of the other people in the restroom - I have to wait until I get home. Do you think it would be a good compromise for people to be able to shit in a public pool as long as they were x number of feet away from non-shitters?
best ever.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
If I was in his position, I would not want to infringe on a co-worker who had problems with me. In fact, I used to eat lunch in the same room with the previous employee and he didnt like the smell of some of my food, so I stopped eating lunch there because I didnt want to infringe on him. thats no different -- see, I don't want to offend others around me.
I do not see any hypocrisy when you are comparing smoking (choice) to allergies (not a choice).. no way.
that's an excellent point. About two years ago this chick that sat in the next cube said she was reacting to (what she thought) my cologne. I stopped wearing it. Did I tell her to "piss up a rope"? Nope, I stopped wearing cologne to work and then altogether (even though most people complemented me on it) because it (supposedly) bothered her allergies. Even after she got fired I still don't wear it, just to make sure it doesn't come up again. She still had reactions weeks after I stopped wearing it, so it wasn't me (she even accused me of wearing it when I wasn't), but the point is I conformed to her needs.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Complaining becomes a habit, it is the way in which you look at things negatively.
I say try to see things positively.
Next time you see a smoker, give him a tic tac and tell you love em...but mean it!
Or how about just look the other way?
you DO realize this thread was started by a smoker who thinks everybody sucks, right?
And by the way, if I gave a smoker a tic tac, I'd probably get a punch in the mouth. Try it, I dare you!
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Complaining becomes a habit, it is the way in which you look at things negatively.
I say try to see things positively.
Next time you see a smoker, give him a tic tac and tell you love em...but mean it!
Or how about just look the other way?
you DO realize this thread was started by a smoker who thinks everybody sucks, right?
And by the way, if I gave a smoker a tic tac, I'd probably get a punch in the mouth. Try it, I dare you!
Its all in the feel behind it... your heart must be in the right place,
which doesn't seem to be happening here much There is a lot of hate towards the smokers.
Kudos to our OP, with the other smoke hating threads and his title very inventive because each one of us is as imperfect as the next. Although some who posted give the feel that they are better than others.
He makes a valid point about all the obnoxious things to get on, like car fumes.
The non smoking peeps could put some concerns there also instead of exclusively trampling on others who are, by the way, getting with the program.
But I sense, as the smokers probably do, that nothing will be good enough for those obsessed with second hand cigarette smoke.
[Of course, it is you with the health problem, why would it be up to others to keep you well?
Let me ask you..when you say you would not hire an employee who smokes...how about an employer who says no I'm not hiring someone with allergies? No way. Geez that drives me crazy.. coughing, hacking, whatever.
You didn't get this person " gone "cause it was his work performance but you would have been comfortable having him lose his job because you had allergies? because you didn't like the way he smelled? Give me a break.
Thats just wrong. Do you not see the hypocrisy and the total disregard for another?
It isnt about others keeping me well, not even close -- its about others making me sick. My allergy to smoke got inflammed because of a choice this other guy made. In the course of 11 years working at the job, that was a miserable two months for me (the other 10 yres and 10 months were great), and it had nothing to do with MY choice, but EVERYTHING to do with his CHOICE. He could chose not to do it during work hours and things would've been a lot better. I asked him nicely to fix it too (many times), to no avail.
If I was in his position, I would not want to infringe on a co-worker who had problems with me. In fact, I used to eat lunch in the same room with the previous employee and he didnt like the smell of some of my food, so I stopped eating lunch there because I didnt want to infringe on him. thats no different -- see, I don't want to offend others around me.
And I would have absolutely no problem with that guy losing his job because of his habit and the smells that are associated with it. It would ultimatley be his choice though. What else would have fixed the problem? should I have worn a doctors mask? maybe a giant bubble? I could shove cotton swabs in my nostrils. Even if I wasnt allergic It would still be a problem.
I do not see any hypocrisy when you are comparing smoking (choice) to allergies (not a choice).. no way.
The hypocrisy comes when you yourself would not want to be discriminated against yet you do the same to others. Your life experience has brought you to a point of prejudice.
But I think you make it seem more benign than it is. If I have to frequently walk through other people's smoke, I smell like smoke. It's not a temporary event that is quickly over. The smoke continues to follow me on my clothes and hair. The only way to get it out is to wash my hair and clothes. It costs me about $40 & about 4 hours a month to wash my hair twice a week. If I had to wash it every day that would cost me, what?, an extra $80 & 8 hours a month? So I would lose about $1000 & 12 work-day equivalents every year so others can have the privilege of smoking around me?? How is that benign? How does that infringe on my rights? Why should I be subjected to that? And that's not even considering the extra cost & time of washing my laundry, paying more taxes for people's medical care, feeling nauseated from the smoke, etc. The bottom line is, when people smoke around non-smokers, the non-smokers have to pay for it in many ways. And, no, that's not something I'm willing to do for other people who didn't have the courtesy to not smoke around me to begin with.
And don't even get me started about all the thousands of acres of forest and people's homes that are lost every year where I live due to people flicking cigarettes out of their cars. People actually die fighting these fires. People lose their homes and their lifetime's worth of possessions. I'd love to see someone walk up to the families of the dead firefighters and the people who have lost their homes and the animals who have been displaced and tell them about smokers' rights. :evil:
As for your question about where people smoke - they go to their cars or off the university property. But, truly, it's true that I don't care. We don't have any more obligation to provide smoking areas for people than we have to provide drinking areas, heroin shooting areas, or - yes, I'll say it again - fucking areas. If I have to go without a drink and a lay for 8 hours a day, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to go without a smoke. (I know, I know... it's addictive. But so are other things people aren't allowed to do at work. And, like I said, I do everything within my power to help people beat the addiction.)
And do you really think it's a compromise for the taxpayers of my state to pay the millions - probably billions - of dollars it would take to construct entirely new entrances to the hundreds of buildings on this campus? Really?? When we can't afford to provide healthcare to children? We should use the money instead to provide separate entrances for smokers?
Vegetables are required to live. Smoking in my face is not.
So the smokers you come in contact with are allowed to smoke outside near entrances of the University you work at I take it....?
This a compromise, good,
but now a little better one could be provided where as perhaps a few entrances or
an area a few feet from certain entrances so perhaps you get that 5 second whiff say 1/4 or even 1/8th as much as now. I'm sure a 5 second whiff isn't going to leave you smelling like anything.
That would be a good compromise. You would think that would be cool correct?
You could compromise and have a little bit of smoke come your way?
Please tell me you are willing to compromise.
That all common sense is not lost, that you understand the rights and needs of the smokers too.
Because this the true issue at hand.
If smokers can do so in a way that doesn't bother other people - whether it be the lasting smell of smoke on the clothes of innocent bystanders, the nausea that some people (myself included) feel when inhaling smoke for even 5 seconds (try inhaling something else horrible for 5 seconds & I think you'll find that 5 seconds isn't as short a time as you seem to think it is), or the exacerbation of illness that occurs when our sick and vulnerable patients have to deal with the secondhand smoke of people who seem to not give a damn - then I don't care what the hell they do. Live and let live, I say. But sometimes "live" for one person interferes with "let live" for others.
But, see, the problem is that these ordinances about staying x number of feet away from entrances has not worked. When we allowed smoking on campus, we had such ordinances - and people still experienced all the things I listed above. Now smoking is banned inside and outside on all of the health sciences campus and all but designated areas on the main campus. (But people still don't have the respect to follow the rules.)
Yes, I am willing to compromise. The compromise is that that I do whatever I want to do in private and smokers can do whatever they want to do in private. I don't want to take away the right of any smoker to smoke. Everyone is still free to smoke 'til their lungs collapse. But, as with many, many other things, they don't have the "right" to do it in a shared public space any more than I have the "right" to shit in a public pool - and shitting is a real biological need. If I want to shit, I have to inconvenience myself to get up into the cold air, go somewhere else, and do it in a private place. And when there is no such private place available - or if I want to be considerate of the other people in the restroom - I have to wait until I get home. Do you think it would be a good compromise for people to be able to shit in a public pool as long as they were x number of feet away from non-shitters?
I think perhaps you have allowed yourself to become too sensitive to the issue of cigarette smoke.
There are so many things in life that are going to be upsetting, like people not following the rules.
But it seems the school is trying to make a good environment for everyone and you may have to concede a bit.
There may always be cigarette smoke around you. I'm assuming because your loved ones smoke as mine do.
Because you love them I'm sure you tolerate it.
You may have to do the same for a stranger at least for now.
Complaining becomes a habit, it is the way in which you look at things negatively.
I say try to see things positively.
Next time you see a smoker, give him a tic tac and tell you love em...but mean it!
Or how about just look the other way?
you DO realize this thread was started by a smoker who thinks everybody sucks, right?
And by the way, if I gave a smoker a tic tac, I'd probably get a punch in the mouth. Try it, I dare you!
Its all in the feel behind it... your heart must be in the right place,
which doesn't seem to be happening here much There is a lot of hate towards the smokers.
Kudos to our OP, with the other smoke hating threads and his title very inventive because each one of us is as imperfect as the next. Although some who posted give the feel that they are better than others.
He makes a valid point about all the obnoxious things to get on, like car fumes.
The non smoking peeps could put some concerns there also instead of exclusively trampling on others who are, by the way, getting with the program.
But I sense, as the smokers probably do, that nothing will be good enough for those obsessed with second hand cigarette smoke.
I have a father who smoked around me for a long time and I deal with smoking a lot. I have no problem with smokers who are conscious of others and respectful. There is no hate here.
I am also in a band and go to many concerts, so I expect it at those places. I don't like it, but I deal with it. However, its these extreme examples (ie - exposed to it at my place of work for 8-9 hours), that I cannot tolerate. And you might have missed that if I have a problem with it, I usually ask the person nicely or let them know that it is troublesome. So, personally, I think I have a good balance on the subject and quite a bit of understanding and respect for smokers rights.
[Of course, it is you with the health problem, why would it be up to others to keep you well?
Let me ask you..when you say you would not hire an employee who smokes...how about an employer who says no I'm not hiring someone with allergies? No way. Geez that drives me crazy.. coughing, hacking, whatever.
You didn't get this person " gone "cause it was his work performance but you would have been comfortable having him lose his job because you had allergies? because you didn't like the way he smelled? Give me a break.
Thats just wrong. Do you not see the hypocrisy and the total disregard for another?
It isnt about others keeping me well, not even close -- its about others making me sick. My allergy to smoke got inflammed because of a choice this other guy made. In the course of 11 years working at the job, that was a miserable two months for me (the other 10 yres and 10 months were great), and it had nothing to do with MY choice, but EVERYTHING to do with his CHOICE. He could chose not to do it during work hours and things would've been a lot better. I asked him nicely to fix it too (many times), to no avail.
If I was in his position, I would not want to infringe on a co-worker who had problems with me. In fact, I used to eat lunch in the same room with the previous employee and he didnt like the smell of some of my food, so I stopped eating lunch there because I didnt want to infringe on him. thats no different -- see, I don't want to offend others around me.
And I would have absolutely no problem with that guy losing his job because of his habit and the smells that are associated with it. It would ultimatley be his choice though. What else would have fixed the problem? should I have worn a doctors mask? maybe a giant bubble? I could shove cotton swabs in my nostrils. Even if I wasnt allergic It would still be a problem.
I do not see any hypocrisy when you are comparing smoking (choice) to allergies (not a choice).. no way.
The hypocrisy comes when you yourself would not want to be discriminated against yet you do the same to others. Your life experience has brought you to a point of prejudice.
You call it prejudice, I call it being repectful of your surroundings. Its not hypocrisy if I was a smoker myself and would be willing to change for someone else. Or Paul Davids example was excellent about the cologne, we all have to compromise a little for others to live nicely as neigbors. Like I said, I've compromised a lot for second hand smoke, but I have to draw the line somewhere. And your analogy of me being discriminated against for having allergies is ludicrous and makes no sense, lets stick to real world applicable stuff here..
You call it prejudice, I call it being repectful of your surroundings. Its not hypocrisy if I was a smoker myself and would be willing to change for someone else. Or Paul Davis example was excellent about the cologne, we all have to compromise a little for others to live nicely as neigbors. Like I said, I've compromised a lot for second hand smoke, but I have to draw the line somewhere. And your analogy of me being discriminated against for having allergies is ludicrous and makes no sense, lets stick to real world applicable stuff here..
It makes perfect sense, people just don't see themselves always in a clear light. It is no more ludicrous then other analogies here like crapping in pool and sex on the street!
My point is you could be discriminated against for your allergies as sure as someone who smokes could be for smoking and please don't be so naive to think thats not possible.
I think you can be honest and say that your opinion of smokers is biased
because of your life experience with second hand smoke.
You call it prejudice, I call it being repectful of your surroundings. Its not hypocrisy if I was a smoker myself and would be willing to change for someone else. Or Paul Davis example was excellent about the cologne, we all have to compromise a little for others to live nicely as neigbors. Like I said, I've compromised a lot for second hand smoke, but I have to draw the line somewhere. And your analogy of me being discriminated against for having allergies is ludicrous and makes no sense, lets stick to real world applicable stuff here..
It makes perfect sense, people just don't see themselves always in a clear light. It is no more ludicrous then other analogies here like crapping in pool and sex on the street!
My point is you could be discriminated against for your allergies as sure as someone who smokes could be for smoking and please don't be so naive to think thats not possible.
I think you can be honest and say that your opinion of smokers is biased
because of your life experience with second hand smoke.
I'd be more than willing to admit that my opinion is biased because of my experiences, but I think that the fact that I am aware of that makes me that much more able to see the entire picture. The difference you are not seeing is that if I am discriminated agaist for my allergies, well then so be it -- I will have to live with that. I'd be upset, but there is no changing that. But if I'm discriminated against for smoking (which is a choice) -- well, I can react to it and improve the situation -- I am able to change it, compromise it, and tailor it to my basic survival and to respect others. HUGE difference.
The crapping in the pool and sex on the street are more applicable to this discussion because they are choices that are made that could affect others. Allergies are not choices.
Naive? Well, I've never been discriminated against because of my allergies, or seen ANYONE else discriminated against for allergies (that i'm aware of), but I have seen many people discriminate against smokers (and most of the time I feel that they are deserving of it beacuse it is negatively affecting someones life)
You call it prejudice, I call it being repectful of your surroundings. Its not hypocrisy if I was a smoker myself and would be willing to change for someone else. Or Paul Davis example was excellent about the cologne, we all have to compromise a little for others to live nicely as neigbors. Like I said, I've compromised a lot for second hand smoke, but I have to draw the line somewhere. And your analogy of me being discriminated against for having allergies is ludicrous and makes no sense, lets stick to real world applicable stuff here..
It makes perfect sense, people just don't see themselves always in a clear light. It is no more ludicrous then other analogies here like crapping in pool and sex on the street!
My point is you could be discriminated against for your allergies as sure as someone who smokes could be for smoking and please don't be so naive to think thats not possible.
I think you can be honest and say that your opinion of smokers is biased
because of your life experience with second hand smoke.
I'd be more than willing to admit that my opinion is biased because of my experiences, but I think that the fact that I am aware of that makes me that much more able to see the entire picture. The difference you are not seeing is that if I am discriminated agaist for my allergies, well then so be it -- I will have to live with that. I'd be upset, but there is no changing that. But if I'm discriminated against for smoking (which is a choice) -- well, I can react to it and improve the situation -- I am able to change it, compromise it, and tailor it to my basic survival and to respect others. HUGE difference.
The crapping in the pool and sex on the street are more applicable to this discussion because they are choices that are made that could affect others. Allergies are not choices.
Naive? Well, I've never been discriminated against because of my allergies, or seen ANYONE else discriminated against for allergies (that i'm aware of), but I have seen many people discriminate against smokers (and most of the time I feel that they are deserving of it beacuse it is negatively affecting someones life)
Well I'm glad you admitted you are biased from your experience and I too am.
I do not give smokers a hard time because I know they are enjoying themselves.
My Mama rarely smoked only one with a cup of coffee in the morning and then if she had cocktails in the evening. This a lovely time for she and I, fond memories of closeness I carry in my heart.
JB, he smokes cigars, and I associate that with his finally winding down. Relaxing letting the worries of the biz go. It means happiness to me. I adore the smell.
So you see our life experience brings understanding or it can bring a negative response.
I don't feel anyone should be discriminated against. It is a terrible feeling to be judged even for those things that appear to be under our control. Appearances are deceiving.
I think perhaps you have allowed yourself to become too sensitive to the issue of cigarette smoke.
There are so many things in life that are going to be upsetting, like people not following the rules.
But it seems the school is trying to make a good environment for everyone and you may have to concede a bit.
There may always be cigarette smoke around you. I'm assuming because your loved ones smoke as mine do.
Because you love them I'm sure you tolerate it.
You may have to do the same for a stranger at least for now.
I don't think I'm too sensitive to the issue of cigarette smoke. I don't even think about it at all unless it's a topic of conversation or I'm confronted with it (at which point it's hard not to think about it since I can hardly breathe and feel like puking). But I still never say anything, except to my loved ones. I want them to quit smoking because I love them, not just because their smoke pollutes the air I'm breathing. (And they're considerate enough to rarely smoke around me anyway.) So actually you have it backwards - I tolerate strangers smoking more than I tolerate my loved ones smoking. But just because I'm not going to cause a scene with a stranger on the street doesn't mean I shouldn't support laws that are trying to make a good environment for everyone.
I don't know what you mean about me conceding with my school. They have a complete ban on smoking inside and outside (except for a few designated areas on another campus). So, yes, they are trying to make a good environment for everyone and I couldn't be happier to work in such a place, but there's nothing much for me to concede to. :?
Well I'm glad you admitted you are biased from your experience and I too am.
I do not give smokers a hard time because I know they are enjoying themselves.
My Mama rarely smoked only one with a cup of coffee in the morning and then if she had cocktails in the evening. This a lovely time for she and I, fond memories of closeness I carry in my heart.
JB, he smokes cigars, and I associate that with his finally winding down. Relaxing letting the worries of the biz go. It means happiness to me. I adore the smell.
So you see our life experience brings understanding or it can bring a negative response.
I don't feel anyone should be discriminated against. It is a terrible feeling to be judged even for those things that appear to be under our control. Appearances are deceiving.
Pandora, I'm frustrated that you keep suggesting that people who want to breathe clean air don't want smokers to enjoy themselves, relax, or be happy and that we are not understanding and are discriminating against and judging smokers. That's simply not true and I wish you would try to be a little more understanding before judging us.
I don't discriminate against people for their vices or lack empathy for their addiction. I buy drinks for homeless people for God's sake. I believe in giving heroin addicts free needles. I am not judging anyone (and I haven't seen anyone else judging either). People can do whatever the hell they want to do to relax and enjoy themselves - I just don't want to be made to participate in those activities against my will, and more than they would want to be forced to participate in my activities against their will. This is not in any way unkind or unreasonable. There is nothing judgmental or discriminatory about it.
I think perhaps you have allowed yourself to become too sensitive to the issue of cigarette smoke.
There are so many things in life that are going to be upsetting, like people not following the rules.
But it seems the school is trying to make a good environment for everyone and you may have to concede a bit.
There may always be cigarette smoke around you. I'm assuming because your loved ones smoke as mine do.
Because you love them I'm sure you tolerate it.
You may have to do the same for a stranger at least for now.
I don't think I'm too sensitive to the issue of cigarette smoke. I don't even think about it at all unless it's a topic of conversation or I'm confronted with it (at which point it's hard not to think about it since I can hardly breathe and feel like puking). But I still never say anything, except to my loved ones. I want them to quit smoking because I love them, not just because their smoke pollutes the air I'm breathing. (And they're considerate enough to rarely smoke around me anyway.) So actually you have it backwards - I tolerate strangers smoking more than I tolerate my loved ones smoking. But just because I'm not going to cause a scene with a stranger on the street doesn't mean I shouldn't support laws that are trying to make a good environment for everyone.
I don't know what you mean about me conceding with my school. They have a complete ban on smoking inside and outside (except for a few designated areas on another campus). So, yes, they are trying to make a good environment for everyone and I couldn't be happier to work in such a place, but there's nothing much for me to concede to. :?
It gets tiresome for people to hear you want them to quit smoking cause you love them, they already know that, they choose to exercise their right to do something they enjoy.
Well you said you had to deal with a lot of smoke so I assumed the campus hadn't corrected the problem... my mistake.
im with pandora on this. :shock: not totally though but for the most part. yeah yeah i know, im shocked too.
smelling and breathing in cigarette smoke is not enjoyable for me and as ive said before it makes me nauseous and gives me headaches i can surely do without. and yes it annoys me when smokers feel the need to gather around entrance doors so youve no choice but to move through their toxic cloud in order to get where you want to be. do i care if they smoke. nope. do i care if they smoke around me. yes. but you know what? ill just move. its not worth the righteous indignation that some smokers feel when you confront them. unless theyre totally stupid theyll realise im moving because of their smoking and perhaps next time they decide to light up theyll take stock of whats around them and smoke away from others. all i can do is control my personal environment and so there is no smoking in my house, near me or my children. if someone asks if i mind if they smoke, ill say yes. and i thank them for asking. non smokers should be thankful theyre not jonesing all the time for that hit. cigarettes are expensive people... buy a book.
oh and about tne tictac thing... ive been quietly addicted to them for 2 and a half years now.
Post edited by catefrances on
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Well I'm glad you admitted you are biased from your experience and I too am.
I do not give smokers a hard time because I know they are enjoying themselves.
My Mama rarely smoked only one with a cup of coffee in the morning and then if she had cocktails in the evening. This a lovely time for she and I, fond memories of closeness I carry in my heart.
JB, he smokes cigars, and I associate that with his finally winding down. Relaxing letting the worries of the biz go. It means happiness to me. I adore the smell.
So you see our life experience brings understanding or it can bring a negative response.
I don't feel anyone should be discriminated against. It is a terrible feeling to be judged even for those things that appear to be under our control. Appearances are deceiving.
Pandora, I'm frustrated that you keep suggesting that people who want to breathe clean air don't want smokers to enjoy themselves, relax, or be happy and that we are not understanding and are discriminating against and judging smokers. That's simply not true and I wish you would try to be a little more understanding before judging us.
I don't discriminate against people for their vices or lack empathy for their addiction. I buy drinks for homeless people for God's sake. I believe in giving heroin addicts free needles. I am not judging anyone (and I haven't seen anyone else judging either). People can do whatever the hell they want to do to relax and enjoy themselves - I just don't want to be made to participate in those activities against my will, and more than they would want to be forced to participate in my activities against their will. This is not in any way unkind or unreasonable. There is nothing judgmental or discriminatory about it.
I am not judging you but in turn you are also not attempting to be understanding of the smokers.
It comes down to this...
There needs to be a place for them to smoke, if by chance you must go through that space then such is life.
You should be able to be understanding enough to concede to that when the smokers have conceded to being put in there space to smoke. We so far have free air space on the public streets.
God help us when that is gone!
It gets tiresome for people to hear you want them to quit smoking cause you love them, they already know that, they choose to exercise their right to do something they enjoy.
Well you said you had to deal with a lot of smoke so I assumed the campus hadn't corrected the problem... my mistake.
Sorry - I meant we had to deal with it until they banned smoking. (Now there are still people who violate the ban, but it's a whole lot better.)
I know what my loved ones know and don't know and do and don't want to hear. I'm not obnoxious about it or anything. But we watched our great-grandmother care for our great-grandfather who was horribly sick with emphysema for over 10 years, so every time my loved one lights up in front of me knowing I'll be the one tied to her bedside for 10 years should she experience a similar consequence, I think I have a right to be at least a little upset that she is making that decision about both of our futures. I only wish I had been harder on her when she started smoking when we were kids - maybe she wouldn't have become addicted - but I didn't want it to get tiresome or anything. :roll:
Well I'm glad you admitted you are biased from your experience and I too am.
I do not give smokers a hard time because I know they are enjoying themselves.
My Mama rarely smoked only one with a cup of coffee in the morning and then if she had cocktails in the evening. This a lovely time for she and I, fond memories of closeness I carry in my heart.
JB, he smokes cigars, and I associate that with his finally winding down. Relaxing letting the worries of the biz go. It means happiness to me. I adore the smell.
So you see our life experience brings understanding or it can bring a negative response.
I don't feel anyone should be discriminated against. It is a terrible feeling to be judged even for those things that appear to be under our control. Appearances are deceiving.
Pandora, I'm frustrated that you keep suggesting that people who want to breathe clean air don't want smokers to enjoy themselves, relax, or be happy and that we are not understanding and are discriminating against and judging smokers. That's simply not true and I wish you would try to be a little more understanding before judging us.
I don't discriminate against people for their vices or lack empathy for their addiction. I buy drinks for homeless people for God's sake. I believe in giving heroin addicts free needles. I am not judging anyone (and I haven't seen anyone else judging either). People can do whatever the hell they want to do to relax and enjoy themselves - I just don't want to be made to participate in those activities against my will, and more than they would want to be forced to participate in my activities against their will. This is not in any way unkind or unreasonable. There is nothing judgmental or discriminatory about it.
I am not judging you but in turn you are also not attempting to be understanding of the smokers.
It comes down to this...
There needs to be a place for them to smoke, if by chance you must go through that space then such is life.
You should be able to be understanding enough to concede to that when the smokers have conceded to being put in there space to smoke. We so far have free air space on the public streets.
God help us when that is gone!
I should probably end this conversation because I'm getting increasingly frustrated by your assumptions about how I feel and what I'm attempting to understand.
It comes down to this... There IS a place for people to smoke - at home. Same place I fuck, shit, drink excessively, walk around naked, and sing loudly out of tune. My freedom to do these things has not been compromised by me being considerate enough (or made by law) to limit these activities to the privacy of my own home. You're acting like people are coming into the homes of smokers and forbidding them from smoking.
Just because our rights are being violated less now than they were 50 years ago does not mean smokers have conceded or compromised. Violating people's rights just a little is not a neutral ground.
I should probably end this conversation because I'm getting increasingly frustrated by your assumptions about how I feel and what I'm attempting to understand.
It comes down to this... There IS a place for people to smoke - at home. Same place I fuck, shit, drink excessively, walk around naked, and sing loudly out of tune. My freedom to do these things has not been compromised by me being considerate enough (or made by law) to limit these activities to the privacy of my own home. You're acting like people are coming into the homes of smokers and forbidding them from smoking.
Just because our rights are being violated less now than they were 50 years ago does not mean smokers have conceded or compromised. Violating people's rights just a little is not a neutral ground.
You don't understand cigarettes or you wouldn't expect a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking and please don't liken it to not being able to take a crap for 12 hours cause you can! And you can also get a drink away from home and probably make it in the back seat of a car or other creative places. We can do all these things you name away from home and smoking within their designated places should be ok with you but you are unable to compromise. And life is full of compromise.
It gets tiresome for people to hear you want them to quit smoking cause you love them, they already know that, they choose to exercise their right to do something they enjoy.
Well you said you had to deal with a lot of smoke so I assumed the campus hadn't corrected the problem... my mistake.
Sorry - I meant we had to deal with it until they banned smoking. (Now there are still people who violate the ban, but it's a whole lot better.)
I know what my loved ones know and don't know and do and don't want to hear. I'm not obnoxious about it or anything. But we watched our great-grandmother care for our great-grandfather who was horribly sick with emphysema for over 10 years, so every time my loved one lights up in front of me knowing I'll be the one tied to her bedside for 10 years should she experience a similar consequence, I think I have a right to be at least a little upset that she is making that decision about both of our futures. I only wish I had been harder on her when she started smoking when we were kids - maybe she wouldn't have become addicted - but I didn't want it to get tiresome or anything. :roll:
Free will thats it and we don't have to agree. Lessons come hard for all of us but thats why we are here. Be glad you have the opportunity to be tied to a bed with someone...tough stuff but it will build your character and your heart and may turn out to be what matters the most to you at the end of your life.
Free will thats it and we don't have to agree. Lessons come hard for all of us but thats why we are here. Be glad you have the opportunity to be tied to a bed with someone...tough stuff but it will build your character and your heart and may turn out to be what matters the most to you at the end of your life.
I feel like you're being really condescending. But since I tend to like you and not think of you as a condescending person I'm going to choose to believe it's just a misunderstanding.
It gets tiresome for people to hear you want them to quit smoking cause you love them, they already know that, they choose to exercise their right to do something they enjoy.
Well you said you had to deal with a lot of smoke so I assumed the campus hadn't corrected the problem... my mistake.
Sorry - I meant we had to deal with it until they banned smoking. (Now there are still people who violate the ban, but it's a whole lot better.)
I know what my loved ones know and don't know and do and don't want to hear. I'm not obnoxious about it or anything. But we watched our great-grandmother care for our great-grandfather who was horribly sick with emphysema for over 10 years, so every time my loved one lights up in front of me knowing I'll be the one tied to her bedside for 10 years should she experience a similar consequence, I think I have a right to be at least a little upset that she is making that decision about both of our futures. I only wish I had been harder on her when she started smoking when we were kids - maybe she wouldn't have become addicted - but I didn't want it to get tiresome or anything. :roll:
Free will thats it and we don't have to agree. Lessons come hard for all of us but thats why we are here. Be glad you have the opportunity to be tied to a bed with someone...tough stuff but it will build your character and your heart and may turn out to be what matters the most to you at the end of your life.
...
Out of all of this... do you smoke?
Because I do... not much... but still... yeah, I do. I ain't easy to quit them fuckers... I know, I quit every time I get to the last one in the pack. Is that free will... wanting to quit, but, some how cannot? Those are addicting little sonsovbitches... ask anyone who smokes. This is my burden to bear.. i don't think others should have to suffer through my weakness and inability to quit.
As for this character that you speak of... character only comes from suffering through tough times?
And finally... yeah, us smokers need a place to smoke... so, I smoke in the car or my home... away from others because I care about others. I don't want to be the source of their discomfort, so guess what? I move away... far enough away as to not bother them will my failure to summon my free will to quit these fucking things.
I know you think those crapping in pools things have no validity... but think about masturbating.... which I do at home... just like everyone else, here. I mean, I guess, I could rub one out here in my cubicle and flick the spunk over the wall to my co-worker's side... what the hell... why should i care? I need to do it... there's nastier shit in the world than my man-seed, right? Maybe it'll give him character he'll appreciate on his death bed, yeah?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You don't understand cigarettes or you wouldn't expect a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking and please don't liken it to not being able to take a crap for 12 hours cause you can! And you can also get a drink away from home and probably make it in the back seat of a car or other creative places. We can do all these things you name away from home and smoking within their designated places should be ok with you but you are unable to compromise. And life is full of compromise.
...
Yes... yes, life IS full of compromises... one of them being having to go without a cigarette for 12 hours. Not, having one ain't going to kill you... compromise.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You don't understand cigarettes or you wouldn't expect a smoker to go 12 hours without smoking and please don't liken it to not being able to take a crap for 12 hours cause you can! And you can also get a drink away from home and probably make it in the back seat of a car or other creative places. We can do all these things you name away from home and smoking within their designated places should be ok with you but you are unable to compromise. And life is full of compromise.
...
Yes... yes, life IS full of compromises... one of them being having to go without a cigarette for 12 hours. Not, having one ain't going to kill you... compromise.
Plus, as you mentioned, people can smoke in their cars too. Or at friends' houses. Or in cigar bars. And I know plenty of smokers who go 12 hours without smoking; it's not a biological function. Most people don't work 12-hour days anyway. And the people who do work 12-hour days have to go 12 hours without drinking, which is a bad addiction as well, but no one seems to have a problem with banning drinking at work.
I just don't see how saying, "You can do whatever you want as long as you don't force it onto me" is not seen as the neutral position. :?
I know you think those crapping in pools things have no validity... but think about masturbating.... which I do at home... just like everyone else, here. I mean, I guess, I could rub one out here in my cubicle and flick the spunk over the wall to my co-worker's side... what the hell... why should i care? I need to do it... there's nastier shit in the world than my man-seed, right? Maybe it'll give him character he'll appreciate on his death bed, yeah?
I love a good analogy.
You know, I think you should be able to do that. As long as you're not making your co-worker swallow it, it's a compromise, right? He'd have limited contact with it anyway - just briefly, as it shot past his desk - so it shouldn't hurt him any. And if he doesn't like it, it's just because he wants to take away your right to relax and be happy. Discriminating, judgmental fucker! :evil:
Comments
If smokers can do so in a way that doesn't bother other people - whether it be the lasting smell of smoke on the clothes of innocent bystanders, the nausea that some people (myself included) feel when inhaling smoke for even 5 seconds (try inhaling something else horrible for 5 seconds & I think you'll find that 5 seconds isn't as short a time as you seem to think it is), or the exacerbation of illness that occurs when our sick and vulnerable patients have to deal with the secondhand smoke of people who seem to not give a damn - then I don't care what the hell they do. Live and let live, I say. But sometimes "live" for one person interferes with "let live" for others.
But, see, the problem is that these ordinances about staying x number of feet away from entrances has not worked. When we allowed smoking on campus, we had such ordinances - and people still experienced all the things I listed above. Now smoking is banned inside and outside on all of the health sciences campus and all but designated areas on the main campus. (But people still don't have the respect to follow the rules.)
Yes, I am willing to compromise. The compromise is that that I do whatever I want to do in private and smokers can do whatever they want to do in private. I don't want to take away the right of any smoker to smoke. Everyone is still free to smoke 'til their lungs collapse. But, as with many, many other things, they don't have the "right" to do it in a shared public space any more than I have the "right" to shit in a public pool - and shitting is a real biological need. If I want to shit, I have to inconvenience myself to get up into the cold air, go somewhere else, and do it in a private place. And when there is no such private place available - or if I want to be considerate of the other people in the restroom - I have to wait until I get home. Do you think it would be a good compromise for people to be able to shit in a public pool as long as they were x number of feet away from non-shitters?
It isnt about others keeping me well, not even close -- its about others making me sick. My allergy to smoke got inflammed because of a choice this other guy made. In the course of 11 years working at the job, that was a miserable two months for me (the other 10 yres and 10 months were great), and it had nothing to do with MY choice, but EVERYTHING to do with his CHOICE. He could chose not to do it during work hours and things would've been a lot better. I asked him nicely to fix it too (many times), to no avail.
If I was in his position, I would not want to infringe on a co-worker who had problems with me. In fact, I used to eat lunch in the same room with the previous employee and he didnt like the smell of some of my food, so I stopped eating lunch there because I didnt want to infringe on him. thats no different -- see, I don't want to offend others around me.
And I would have absolutely no problem with that guy losing his job because of his habit and the smells that are associated with it. It would ultimatley be his choice though. What else would have fixed the problem? should I have worn a doctors mask? maybe a giant bubble? I could shove cotton swabs in my nostrils. Even if I wasnt allergic It would still be a problem.
I do not see any hypocrisy when you are comparing smoking (choice) to allergies (not a choice).. no way.
best ever.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
that's an excellent point. About two years ago this chick that sat in the next cube said she was reacting to (what she thought) my cologne. I stopped wearing it. Did I tell her to "piss up a rope"? Nope, I stopped wearing cologne to work and then altogether (even though most people complemented me on it) because it (supposedly) bothered her allergies. Even after she got fired I still don't wear it, just to make sure it doesn't come up again. She still had reactions weeks after I stopped wearing it, so it wasn't me (she even accused me of wearing it when I wasn't), but the point is I conformed to her needs.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
you DO realize this thread was started by a smoker who thinks everybody sucks, right?
And by the way, if I gave a smoker a tic tac, I'd probably get a punch in the mouth. Try it, I dare you!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
which doesn't seem to be happening here much
Kudos to our OP, with the other smoke hating threads and his title very inventive because each one of us is as imperfect as the next. Although some who posted give the feel that they are better than others.
He makes a valid point about all the obnoxious things to get on, like car fumes.
The non smoking peeps could put some concerns there also instead of exclusively trampling on others who are, by the way, getting with the program.
But I sense, as the smokers probably do, that nothing will be good enough for those obsessed with second hand cigarette smoke.
There are so many things in life that are going to be upsetting, like people not following the rules.
But it seems the school is trying to make a good environment for everyone and you may have to concede a bit.
There may always be cigarette smoke around you. I'm assuming because your loved ones smoke as mine do.
Because you love them I'm sure you tolerate it.
You may have to do the same for a stranger at least for now.
I have a father who smoked around me for a long time and I deal with smoking a lot. I have no problem with smokers who are conscious of others and respectful. There is no hate here.
I am also in a band and go to many concerts, so I expect it at those places. I don't like it, but I deal with it. However, its these extreme examples (ie - exposed to it at my place of work for 8-9 hours), that I cannot tolerate. And you might have missed that if I have a problem with it, I usually ask the person nicely or let them know that it is troublesome. So, personally, I think I have a good balance on the subject and quite a bit of understanding and respect for smokers rights.
You call it prejudice, I call it being repectful of your surroundings. Its not hypocrisy if I was a smoker myself and would be willing to change for someone else. Or Paul Davids example was excellent about the cologne, we all have to compromise a little for others to live nicely as neigbors. Like I said, I've compromised a lot for second hand smoke, but I have to draw the line somewhere. And your analogy of me being discriminated against for having allergies is ludicrous and makes no sense, lets stick to real world applicable stuff here..
It makes perfect sense, people just don't see themselves always in a clear light. It is no more ludicrous then other analogies here like crapping in pool and sex on the street!
My point is you could be discriminated against for your allergies as sure as someone who smokes could be for smoking and please don't be so naive to think thats not possible.
I think you can be honest and say that your opinion of smokers is biased
because of your life experience with second hand smoke.
I'd be more than willing to admit that my opinion is biased because of my experiences, but I think that the fact that I am aware of that makes me that much more able to see the entire picture. The difference you are not seeing is that if I am discriminated agaist for my allergies, well then so be it -- I will have to live with that. I'd be upset, but there is no changing that. But if I'm discriminated against for smoking (which is a choice) -- well, I can react to it and improve the situation -- I am able to change it, compromise it, and tailor it to my basic survival and to respect others. HUGE difference.
The crapping in the pool and sex on the street are more applicable to this discussion because they are choices that are made that could affect others. Allergies are not choices.
Naive? Well, I've never been discriminated against because of my allergies, or seen ANYONE else discriminated against for allergies (that i'm aware of), but I have seen many people discriminate against smokers (and most of the time I feel that they are deserving of it beacuse it is negatively affecting someones life)
I do not give smokers a hard time because I know they are enjoying themselves.
My Mama rarely smoked only one with a cup of coffee in the morning and then if she had cocktails in the evening. This a lovely time for she and I, fond memories of closeness I carry in my heart.
JB, he smokes cigars, and I associate that with his finally winding down. Relaxing letting the worries of the biz go. It means happiness to me. I adore the smell.
So you see our life experience brings understanding or it can bring a negative response.
I don't feel anyone should be discriminated against. It is a terrible feeling to be judged even for those things that appear to be under our control. Appearances are deceiving.
I don't think I'm too sensitive to the issue of cigarette smoke. I don't even think about it at all unless it's a topic of conversation or I'm confronted with it (at which point it's hard not to think about it since I can hardly breathe and feel like puking). But I still never say anything, except to my loved ones. I want them to quit smoking because I love them, not just because their smoke pollutes the air I'm breathing. (And they're considerate enough to rarely smoke around me anyway.) So actually you have it backwards - I tolerate strangers smoking more than I tolerate my loved ones smoking. But just because I'm not going to cause a scene with a stranger on the street doesn't mean I shouldn't support laws that are trying to make a good environment for everyone.
I don't know what you mean about me conceding with my school. They have a complete ban on smoking inside and outside (except for a few designated areas on another campus). So, yes, they are trying to make a good environment for everyone and I couldn't be happier to work in such a place, but there's nothing much for me to concede to. :?
Pandora, I'm frustrated that you keep suggesting that people who want to breathe clean air don't want smokers to enjoy themselves, relax, or be happy and that we are not understanding and are discriminating against and judging smokers. That's simply not true and I wish you would try to be a little more understanding before judging us.
I don't discriminate against people for their vices or lack empathy for their addiction. I buy drinks for homeless people for God's sake. I believe in giving heroin addicts free needles. I am not judging anyone (and I haven't seen anyone else judging either). People can do whatever the hell they want to do to relax and enjoy themselves - I just don't want to be made to participate in those activities against my will, and more than they would want to be forced to participate in my activities against their will. This is not in any way unkind or unreasonable. There is nothing judgmental or discriminatory about it.
Well you said you had to deal with a lot of smoke so I assumed the campus hadn't corrected the problem... my mistake.
im with pandora on this. :shock: not totally though but for the most part. yeah yeah i know, im shocked too.
smelling and breathing in cigarette smoke is not enjoyable for me and as ive said before it makes me nauseous and gives me headaches i can surely do without. and yes it annoys me when smokers feel the need to gather around entrance doors so youve no choice but to move through their toxic cloud in order to get where you want to be. do i care if they smoke. nope. do i care if they smoke around me. yes. but you know what? ill just move. its not worth the righteous indignation that some smokers feel when you confront them. unless theyre totally stupid theyll realise im moving because of their smoking and perhaps next time they decide to light up theyll take stock of whats around them and smoke away from others. all i can do is control my personal environment and so there is no smoking in my house, near me or my children. if someone asks if i mind if they smoke, ill say yes. and i thank them for asking. non smokers should be thankful theyre not jonesing all the time for that hit. cigarettes are expensive people... buy a book.
oh and about tne tictac thing... ive been quietly addicted to them for 2 and a half years now.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I am not judging you but in turn you are also not attempting to be understanding of the smokers.
It comes down to this...
There needs to be a place for them to smoke, if by chance you must go through that space then such is life.
You should be able to be understanding enough to concede to that when the smokers have conceded to being put in there space to smoke. We so far have free air space on the public streets.
God help us when that is gone!
Sorry - I meant we had to deal with it until they banned smoking. (Now there are still people who violate the ban, but it's a whole lot better.)
I know what my loved ones know and don't know and do and don't want to hear. I'm not obnoxious about it or anything. But we watched our great-grandmother care for our great-grandfather who was horribly sick with emphysema for over 10 years, so every time my loved one lights up in front of me knowing I'll be the one tied to her bedside for 10 years should she experience a similar consequence, I think I have a right to be at least a little upset that she is making that decision about both of our futures. I only wish I had been harder on her when she started smoking when we were kids - maybe she wouldn't have become addicted - but I didn't want it to get tiresome or anything. :roll:
-Bill Hicks
I should probably end this conversation because I'm getting increasingly frustrated by your assumptions about how I feel and what I'm attempting to understand.
It comes down to this... There IS a place for people to smoke - at home. Same place I fuck, shit, drink excessively, walk around naked, and sing loudly out of tune. My freedom to do these things has not been compromised by me being considerate enough (or made by law) to limit these activities to the privacy of my own home. You're acting like people are coming into the homes of smokers and forbidding them from smoking.
Just because our rights are being violated less now than they were 50 years ago does not mean smokers have conceded or compromised. Violating people's rights just a little is not a neutral ground.
^ this
I feel like you're being really condescending. But since I tend to like you and not think of you as a condescending person I'm going to choose to believe it's just a misunderstanding.
Out of all of this... do you smoke?
Because I do... not much... but still... yeah, I do. I ain't easy to quit them fuckers... I know, I quit every time I get to the last one in the pack. Is that free will... wanting to quit, but, some how cannot? Those are addicting little sonsovbitches... ask anyone who smokes. This is my burden to bear.. i don't think others should have to suffer through my weakness and inability to quit.
As for this character that you speak of... character only comes from suffering through tough times?
And finally... yeah, us smokers need a place to smoke... so, I smoke in the car or my home... away from others because I care about others. I don't want to be the source of their discomfort, so guess what? I move away... far enough away as to not bother them will my failure to summon my free will to quit these fucking things.
I know you think those crapping in pools things have no validity... but think about masturbating.... which I do at home... just like everyone else, here. I mean, I guess, I could rub one out here in my cubicle and flick the spunk over the wall to my co-worker's side... what the hell... why should i care? I need to do it... there's nastier shit in the world than my man-seed, right? Maybe it'll give him character he'll appreciate on his death bed, yeah?
Hail, Hail!!!
Yes... yes, life IS full of compromises... one of them being having to go without a cigarette for 12 hours. Not, having one ain't going to kill you... compromise.
Hail, Hail!!!
Plus, as you mentioned, people can smoke in their cars too. Or at friends' houses. Or in cigar bars. And I know plenty of smokers who go 12 hours without smoking; it's not a biological function. Most people don't work 12-hour days anyway. And the people who do work 12-hour days have to go 12 hours without drinking, which is a bad addiction as well, but no one seems to have a problem with banning drinking at work.
I just don't see how saying, "You can do whatever you want as long as you don't force it onto me" is not seen as the neutral position. :?
You know, I think you should be able to do that. As long as you're not making your co-worker swallow it, it's a compromise, right? He'd have limited contact with it anyway - just briefly, as it shot past his desk - so it shouldn't hurt him any. And if he doesn't like it, it's just because he wants to take away your right to relax and be happy. Discriminating, judgmental fucker! :evil: