college kid commits suicide after being secretly taped

polaris_x

know1 wrote:

I guess we'll just have to disagree. When I saw your "enlightened" postulation, one of the things that came to mind was that you were implying he may not have killed himself if his family wasn't religious.

Whether I was right to take it from your statement or not, I did.

And I still hold there was no point whatsoever for you to even bring that up without any evidence to support it.

if there is anything behind this kid's decision to commit suicide that we don't know - should we not explore it to maybe prevent this from happening in the future? ... like i said - maybe it was simply the embarassment ... but maybe there is more to it ...

i'm sorry if you feel it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality but we have priests all over the world convicted of molesting boys ... maybe talking about it would help something ... i know the catholic church woudl rather hide it and bury it under a rug like they have been but that is not doing any good to the countless victims ...

edit: syntax

catefrances

dunkman wrote:

know1 wrote:

Well then maybe he just killed himself because his family was religious and perhaps it didn't have anything to do with the fact that he was streamed online. In fact, maybe he enjoyed the publicity, but it was his tyrannical religious family that drove him to end his life.

look, its more likely he committed suicide because of the shame he perceived it would bring to his family than the shame of being a gay man being caught having sex online... i mean most gay men would be quite happy about that actually... what with their loose morals and their gay pride showing off parades... this guy would be an icon of 'gayness' for his video exploits

now thats a stereotype.


there have been lots of instances of men recording themselves having sex with a female and then posting it onto a website... to date i know of no story about a woman discovering this secret footage and then killing herself... so, i'm sorry, but i don't think the guy killed himself because he was put online having sex with another guy... i think he did it because of a) his family reaction and b) the reactions of others around him...

it's like he seems to have a problem accepting he is gay?

if i got secretly filmed having sex with a girl by my flatmates in college and it was on the internet i don't think i would give a toss.... but perhaps the guy couldnt admit he was gay? again, i'm guessing here, which i believe isnt allowed anymore.

and maybe youre just an exhibitionist dunk. :P

The Juggler

dunkman wrote:

know1 wrote:

Well then maybe he just killed himself because his family was religious and perhaps it didn't have anything to do with the fact that he was streamed online. In fact, maybe he enjoyed the publicity, but it was his tyrannical religious family that drove him to end his life.

look, its more likely he committed suicide because of the shame he perceived it would bring to his family than the shame of being a gay man being caught having sex online... i mean most gay men would be quite happy about that actually... what with their loose morals and their gay pride showing off parades... this guy would be an icon of 'gayness' for his video exploits

now thats a stereotype.


there have been lots of instances of men recording themselves having sex with a female and then posting it onto a website... to date i know of no story about a woman discovering this secret footage and then killing herself... so, i'm sorry, but i don't think the guy killed himself because he was put online having sex with another guy... i think he did it because of a) his family reaction and b) the reactions of others around him...

it's like he seems to have a problem accepting he is gay?

if i got secretly filmed having sex with a girl by my flatmates in college and it was on the internet i don't think i would give a toss.... but perhaps the guy couldnt admit he was gay? again, i'm guessing here, which i believe isnt allowed anymore.

all of this could be true. still doesn't mean his family is what you guys are assuming.

know1

polaris_x wrote:

know1 wrote:

I guess we'll just have to disagree. When I saw your "enlightened" postulation, one of the things that came to mind was that you were implying he may not have killed himself if his family wasn't religious.

Whether I was right to take it from your statement or not, I did.

And I still hold there was no point whatsoever for you to even bring that up without any evidence to support it.

if there is anything behind this kid's decision to commit suicide that we don't know - should we not explore it to maybe prevent this from happening in the future ... like i said - maybe it was simply the embarassment ... but maybe there is more to it ...

i'm sorry if you feel it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality but we have priests all over the world convicted of molesting boys ... maybe talking about it would help something ... i know the catholic church woudl rather hide it and bury it under a rug like they have been but that is doing any good to the countless victims ...

I don't think it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality. I'm just trying to say that all religious people aren't alike as you seem to be implying.

I guess what bothered me the most was this:

Student gets filmed + kills himself = family must be religious.

I don't see why you can't see what's wrong with making that equation.

dunkman

know1 wrote:

And I still hold there was no point whatsoever for you to even bring that up without any evidence to support it.

A: I hear that 6 terrorists have blown up a building in London.
B: really, thats awful! i'm gonna postulate that these guys were extreme Muslims
A: now now... what has that got to do with it? You're generalising and prejudicing again arent you.
B: well its a theory i have.
A: well you have no evidence so shut up.

eyedclaar

know1 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

know1 wrote:

I guess we'll just have to disagree. When I saw your "enlightened" postulation, one of the things that came to mind was that you were implying he may not have killed himself if his family wasn't religious.

Whether I was right to take it from your statement or not, I did.

And I still hold there was no point whatsoever for you to even bring that up without any evidence to support it.

if there is anything behind this kid's decision to commit suicide that we don't know - should we not explore it to maybe prevent this from happening in the future ... like i said - maybe it was simply the embarassment ... but maybe there is more to it ...

i'm sorry if you feel it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality but we have priests all over the world convicted of molesting boys ... maybe talking about it would help something ... i know the catholic church woudl rather hide it and bury it under a rug like they have been but that is doing any good to the countless victims ...

I don't think it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality. I'm just trying to say that all religious people aren't alike as you seem to be implying.

I guess what bothered me the most was this:

Student gets filmed + kills himself = family must be religious.

I don't see why you can't see what's wrong with making that equation.

Because you are dealing with maths not a theory, which is all that was ever put forth. We're not going to trial with this theory or anything. Nobody is suggesting it is the reality of the situation.

polaris_x

know1 wrote:

I don't think it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality. I'm just trying to say that all religious people aren't alike as you seem to be implying.

I guess what bothered me the most was this:

Student gets filmed + kills himself = family must be religious.

I don't see why you can't see what's wrong with making that equation.

again - for the umpteenth time ... where do i say his family MUST be religious!?? ... i postulated ... catefrances defined it for those who aren't sure what that means ...

all i did was simply open the dialogue of the possibilities ... again - my goal isn't to bash religious conservatives nor do i think all religious conservatives are intolerant ... the goal is simply to discuss why this kid would take his life so that maybe we, as a society, can prevent this from happening again ...

The Juggler

dunkman wrote:

know1 wrote:

And I still hold there was no point whatsoever for you to even bring that up without any evidence to support it.

A: I hear that 6 terrorists have blown up a building in London.
B: really, thats awful! i'm gonna postulate that these guys were extreme Muslims
A: now now... what has that got to do with it? You're generalising and prejudicing again arent you.
B: well its a theory i have.
A: well you have no evidence so shut up.

DIRECT CORRELATION!
THANKS DUNK


:roll:

dunkman

The Jeagler wrote:

dunkman wrote:

know1 wrote:

And I still hold there was no point whatsoever for you to even bring that up without any evidence to support it.

A: I hear that 6 terrorists have blown up a building in London.
B: really, thats awful! i'm gonna postulate that these guys were extreme Muslims
A: now now... what has that got to do with it? You're generalising and prejudicing again arent you.
B: well its a theory i have.
A: well you have no evidence so shut up.

DIRECT CORRELATION!
THANKS DUNK


:roll:

holy caps Jeag.... obviously done for dramatic effect therefore i am gonna postulate that you are a bit of a geek :thumbup:

know1

polaris_x wrote:

know1 wrote:

I don't think it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality. I'm just trying to say that all religious people aren't alike as you seem to be implying.

I guess what bothered me the most was this:

Student gets filmed + kills himself = family must be religious.

I don't see why you can't see what's wrong with making that equation.

again - for the umpteenth time ... where do i say his family MUST be religious!?? ... i postulated ... catefrances defined it for those who aren't sure what that means ...

all i did was simply open the dialogue of the possibilities ... again - my goal isn't to bash religious conservatives nor do i think all religious conservatives are intolerant ... the goal is simply to discuss why this kid would take his life so that maybe we, as a society, can prevent this from happening again ...

Why didn't you postulate (is that the word of the day) on the home life of the person who did the filming?

catefrances

know1 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

know1 wrote:

I don't think it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality. I'm just trying to say that all religious people aren't alike as you seem to be implying.

I guess what bothered me the most was this:

Student gets filmed + kills himself = family must be religious.

I don't see why you can't see what's wrong with making that equation.

again - for the umpteenth time ... where do i say his family MUST be religious!?? ... i postulated ... catefrances defined it for those who aren't sure what that means ...

all i did was simply open the dialogue of the possibilities ... again - my goal isn't to bash religious conservatives nor do i think all religious conservatives are intolerant ... the goal is simply to discuss why this kid would take his life so that maybe we, as a society, can prevent this from happening again ...

Why didn't you postulate (is that the word of the day) on the home life of the person who did the filming?

nah.. im just thinking the kids a jerk.

comebackgirl

catefrances wrote:

it doesnt matter if his family were religiously conservative. what matters here is this guy was so humiliated by what 2 of his classmates did that he felt there was no alternative but to take his own life. the problem here is not his familys religious affiliation but the callous disregard for his privacy.

Exactly. Unfortunately stuff like this is happening way too often. The bullying and online humiliation issues seem to have been a factor in a lot of adolescent/young adult suicides. The callousness of these kinds of acts is very disturbing.

polaris_x

know1 wrote:

Why didn't you postulate (is that the word of the day) on the home life of the person who did the filming?

???? ... if you want me to ... i postulate that this kid grew up in a middle-class suburban neighbourhood ... does that make it better?

catefrances

comebackgirl wrote:

catefrances wrote:

it doesnt matter if his family were religiously conservative. what matters here is this guy was so humiliated by what 2 of his classmates did that he felt there was no alternative but to take his own life. the problem here is not his familys religious affiliation but the callous disregard for his privacy.

Exactly. Unfortunately stuff like this is happening way too often. The bullying and online humiliation issues seem to have been a factor in a lot of adolescent/young adult suicides. The callousness of these kinds of acts is very disturbing.

tyler was quite possibly a private individual. its probably the reason his room mate did this. he knew the level of humiliation tyler would feel with the world checking out this most private of acts. as i said before if this were to happen to me id be homicidally ropeable. but im not tyler. and im not gay and i dont care what people think of me, cause they dont know me. i wouldnt be humiliated that id had sex, gay or straight. id just be vengefully angry at the absolute disrespect and invasion of privacy shown.

RKCNDY

I have been trying to not comment in this subject because it has been so heated...but reading articles on this case have made me more aware of certain aspects....
let's take the words 'gay' and 'homosexual' out of the picture...pretend the man was heterosexual.

From USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/201 ... htm?csp=hf

"In death, Clementi — shy, quiet and known by only a few of his dorm hall mates"
Shy and quiet...possible social anxiety?

(Wikipedia) Ordinary adult form
Common adult forms of social anxiety include shyness,[5] performance anxiety, public speaking anxiety, stage fright, timidness, etc. All of these may also assume clinical forms, i.e., become anxiety disorders (see below).[1]
The term social anxiety is also commonly used in reference to experiences such as embarrassment and shame. However some psychologists draw distinctions among various types of social discomfort, with the criterion for anxiety being anticipation. For example, the anticipation of an embarrassment is a form of social anxiety, while embarrassment itself is not.[6]

Clementi could have been under the pressures of some sort of social anxiety disorder, and because of embarrassment 'snapped' like these people:

(from the same USA Today article)
Jessica Logan, an 18-year-old Cincinnati woman, killed herself in 2008 after an ex-boyfriend forwarded her nude cellphone photos to high school classmates.

Megan Meier, a 13-year-old Missouri girl, hanged herself in 2006 after learning that an Internet romance on MySpace was a hoax.

One bully was convicted:
Anthony Scala, an Oregon State University student, was convicted of invasion of privacy in 2001 for using his laptop webcam to broadcast on the Internet scenes of his roommate and his girlfriend having sex in a dorm room.

He was also pretty accomplished:
Clementi was not a music major but played violin so well he made the Rutgers Symphony Orchestra, which is comprised mostly of graduate music students and undergraduate majors.

Remember, this guy was a freshman...just out of high school.

A kamikaze pilot commits suicide and it is noble, a terminally ill patient is allowed to 'die with dignity' is justified, a college student that commits suicide because of humiliation is considered.....?

Whatever the reasons for his committing suicide, it is sad that he felt he couldn't reach out to someone.

Interesting reading about suicide: http://www.trinity.edu/~mkearl/death-su.html

The Juggler

dunkman wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

dunkman wrote:

A: I hear that 6 terrorists have blown up a building in London.
B: really, thats awful! i'm gonna postulate that these guys were extreme Muslims
A: now now... what has that got to do with it? You're generalising and prejudicing again arent you.
B: well its a theory i have.
A: well you have no evidence so shut up.

DIRECT CORRELATION!
THANKS DUNK


:roll:

holy caps Jeag.... obviously done for dramatic effect therefore i am gonna postulate that you are a bit of a geek :thumbup:

incorrect. i was just really excited to see you nail that direct correlation. i don't know how you do it

dunkman

The Jeagler wrote:

incorrect. i was just really excited to see you nail that direct correlation. i don't know how you do it

years of nailing stuff

The Juggler

comebackgirl wrote:

catefrances wrote:

it doesnt matter if his family were religiously conservative. what matters here is this guy was so humiliated by what 2 of his classmates did that he felt there was no alternative but to take his own life. the problem here is not his familys religious affiliation but the callous disregard for his privacy.

Exactly. Unfortunately stuff like this is happening way too often. The bullying and online humiliation issues seem to have been a factor in a lot of adolescent/young adult suicides. The callousness of these kinds of acts is very disturbing.

this is one of the reasons i am beginning to dread becoming a father. imagine who things will be 10-15 years from now...

haffajappa

know1 wrote:

I don't think it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality. I'm just trying to say that all religious people aren't alike as you seem to be implying.

I guess what bothered me the most was this:

Student gets filmed + kills himself = family must be religious.

I don't see why you can't see what's wrong with making that equation.

because you can't see the equation for what it really is.
try thinking a little less simply:

student gets filmed doing homosexual acts > student kills himself > why? perhaps shame > why is he ashamed of people knowing he's homosexual? > perhaps he comes from a family that doesn't tolerate this lifestyle > what families wouldn't tolerate their child being gay? > a good percentage of religious families = PERHAPS he was from a religious family.


it wasn't a statement.
i dont think polaris meant to offend you or any christians, but you're off your rocker if you think most religions tolerate homosexuality... and you're off your rocker if you think he was trying to make a statement.

The Juggler

haffajappa wrote:

know1 wrote:

I don't think it's taboo to talk about religion and homosexuality. I'm just trying to say that all religious people aren't alike as you seem to be implying.

I guess what bothered me the most was this:

Student gets filmed + kills himself = family must be religious.

I don't see why you can't see what's wrong with making that equation.

because you can't see the equation for what it really is.
try thinking a little less simply:

student gets filmed doing homosexual acts > student kills himself > why? perhaps shame > why is he ashamed of people knowing he's homosexual? > perhaps he comes from a family that doesn't tolerate this lifestyle > what families wouldn't tolerate their child being gay? > a good percentage of religious families = PERHAPS he was from a religious family.


it wasn't a statement.
i dont think polaris meant to offend you or any christians, but you're off your rocker if you think most religions tolerate homosexuality... and you're off your rocker if you think he was trying to make a statement.

the poor kid could have grown up in the most liberal type of family environment known to man and still feel ashamed of himself for being that way though. even though his family may have accepted him, his peers in high school and college may not have. there's no way of knowing. and it's not the issue here, really.