Fidel Castro tells Ahmadinejad: Stop denying the holocaust

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  • TriumphantAngel
    TriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    just looking for clarification of what you meant.

    that's all. you silence on that speaks volumes.

    I am not being silent. I am just avoiding whatever little game you are playing.
    i'm not playing any games, i didn't make the comment. you did. you are the one who came into the thread with the comment " some people here are just so clever in disguising their true feelings"

    you made the comment. i asked you to clarify what you meant. why is that so hard?
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    just looking for clarification of what you meant.

    that's all. you silence on that speaks volumes.

    I am not being silent. I am just avoiding whatever little game you are playing.
    i'm not playing any games, i didn't make the comment. you did. you are the one who came into the thread with the comment " some people here are just so clever in disguising their true feelings"

    you made the comment. i asked you to clarify what you meant. why is that so hard?
    its like the article someone posted that hinted antisemitism hides behind criticism of israel.


    its like they can't understand that we actually care about human decency and justice.
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    I don't know about all the articles posted here (I'm sure I've missed some), but those I posted argued that antisemitism hid behind SOME criticism of Israel (that made by antisemites, not that made in good faith by people just trying to criticize).
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,408
    Commy wrote:
    its like the article someone posted that hinted antisemitism hides behind criticism of israel.


    its like they can't understand that we actually care about human decency and justice.

    exactly.

    we criticize our own country on this forum when we feel it is not living up to our standards of justice and human decency and that does not make us anti-american. so why is it when we criticize another country for doing the same or in some cases worse things, suddenly our "true feelings" are antisemitic? i don't get it, i am just as quick to criticize my own country as any other one...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • TriumphantAngel
    TriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    its like the article someone posted that hinted antisemitism hides behind criticism of israel.


    its like they can't understand that we actually care about human decency and justice.

    exactly.

    we criticize our own country on this forum when we feel it is not living up to our standards of justice and human decency and that does not make us anti-american. so why is it when we criticize another country for doing the same or in some cases worse things, suddenly our "true feelings" are antisemitic? i don't get it, i am just as quick to criticize my own country as any other one...

    i was born and raised in Australia. spent the first 20 years of my life there before i moved to the US. i love Australia. just love it, i have so many family ties and happy memories. but i'm critical of Australia. i can still love the Country and still be critical of things they do that i strongly disagree with.

    Same as the U.S. i can't work and live here without growing to love it. there's so much to love about it. so much. but again, i'm very critical of U.S. foreign policy, i'm anti death penalty, i think it's uncivilized and i hate the terrible fact that 51 million people are now without health Insurance. just to name a few. i post just as much about these things as i do about the Israel Palestine conflict. i don't hate Israelis, i don't hate anyone but i do have huge problems with the Israeli Government and their terrible treatment of the Palestinians. why can't people understand that.

    i always thought that patriotism has never been blind allegiance to people or policy. it's loyalty to an ideal - to principle. if you feel that an injustice has been committed, or ideals or principles have been betrayed, you should speak out in defense of them and speak out to preserve what you feel is great and speak out because of what you love about the country. and that goes for any Country.

    i do it out of love. because i care, not because i hate. i want a better world for everyone.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    patriotism is the refuge of scoundrels.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    TriumphantAngel wrote:
    i was born and raised in Australia. spent the first 20 years of my life there before i moved to the US. i love Australia. just love it, i have so many family ties and happy memories. but i'm critical of Australia. i can still love the Country and still be critical of things they do that i strongly disagree with.

    Same as the U.S. i can't work and live here without growing to love it. there's so much to love about it. so much. but again, i'm very critical of U.S. foreign policy, i'm anti death penalty, i think it's uncivilized and i hate the terrible fact that 51 million people are now without health Insurance. just to name a few. i post just as much about these things as i do about the Israel Palestine conflict. i don't hate Israelis, i don't hate anyone but i do have huge problems with the Israeli Government and their terrible treatment of the Palestinians. why can't people understand that.

    i always thought that patriotism has never been blind allegiance to people or policy. it's loyalty to an ideal - to principle. if you feel that an injustice has been committed, or ideals or principles have been betrayed, you should speak out in defense of them and speak out to preserve what you feel is great and speak out because of what you love about the country. and that goes for any Country.

    i do it out of love. because i care, not because i hate. i want a better world for everyone.

    Yeah, but what are your true feelings? :P
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Are people seriously contending that Iran is about to attack all the mid-east countries?? Tell me that isn't the assertation here.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    polaris_x wrote:
    Are people seriously contending that Iran is about to attack all the mid-east countries?? Tell me that isn't the assertation here.
    yes, some people are seriously arguing iran has a suicide bomber mentality, based purely on propaganda from major news groups.
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    I love that you assume that anything that comes from a major news source is propaganda. As if the small, politically biased, niche sources often quoted on this board don't have an explicit agenda. At least most major news outlets make a passing effort at objectivity (Fox not included).
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    yosi wrote:
    I love that you assume that anything that comes from a major news source is propaganda. As if the small, politically biased, niche sources often quoted on this board don't have an explicit agenda. At least most major news outlets make a passing effort at objectivity (Fox not included).
    even fox supports the state on foreign policy. there is almost no dissent in american media on that front.
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    That's funny, cause I read a lot of American media, and there is plenty of disagreement. The fact that the overwhelming majority of mainstream opinion rejects the fringe leftism/libertarianism one finds on this board does not mean that mainstream opinion is monolithic.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    yosi wrote:
    That's funny, cause I read a lot of American media, and there is plenty of disagreement. The fact that the overwhelming majority of mainstream opinion rejects the fringe leftism/libertarianism one finds on this board does not mean that mainstream opinion is monolithic.
    look at public opinion leading up to the gulf war


    look at the people they interviewd on every channel in that same time period




    a very large percentage of opinion is not represented in teh news
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    The news is not supposed to represent opinion. It is supposed to convey the facts of what is happening in the world with as little subjective opinion as possible.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • satansbed
    satansbed Posts: 2,139
    what i don't get is how some of the best stand up comedians are Jewish yet a lot/some Jewish people have incredibly thin skin when it comes to criticism regarding Israel
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    What I don't get is how those things are in any way related?
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    The news is not supposed to represent opinion. It is supposed to convey the facts of what is happening in the world with as little subjective opinion as possible.

    Doesn't quite work that way though does it?

    Anyone would think from reading the above that Chomsky never existed. I suggest you get yourself off to a library some time.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    The news is not supposed to represent opinion. It is supposed to convey the facts of what is happening in the world with as little subjective opinion as possible.

    Doesn't quite work that way though does it?

    Anyone would think from reading the above that Chomsky never existed. I suggest you get yourself off to a library some time.
    and when that opinion they do represent serves the will of the state...and leads us to war...its more than just "ah fuck the news sucks" - its criminal. tens of thousands....hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved had the news done its job.



    and you can look at any conflict and come to the same conclusion. all it took was a word from washington to stop indonesia's slaughter of east timor.....were the media doing their jobs, lives could have been saved. and hwo knows, if they reported widely about the biggest protests in history, leading up to the iraq war, maybe that war could have been prevented. that's what's so damning about this propaganda, its cost is counted in human lives..
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    edited September 2010
    yosi wrote:
    The news is not supposed to represent opinion. It is supposed to convey the facts of what is happening in the world with as little subjective opinion as possible.
    see i think all mainstream media, in general, is accurate in the facts they present, its how they choose to present those facts that is so damning. but its presented through an opinion. leading up to the iraq war for example...the opinion they represented almost exclusively supported the push for war.


    they were giving americans, and this is almost across the board, from fox to msnbc.......a view of things that weren't representative of reality.



    they were presenting a picture that didn't ask "should we go to war?" but "when?" and "how? this despite the fact that a large percentage of americans opposed the war. the majority wasn't represented in mainstream media, still isn't.



    its called manufacturing consent, its a form of propaganda.



    and its important what facts you present, even if you take all opinion out of it. fox news, even today, is accurate, for the most part, as is msnbc, they have to be. but what facts you present, or how you report them, can shape opinion.

    take the Israel/Palestine situation. almost without exception violence committed by Israel is referred to as "in response to" or "in retaliation to", on every outlet, from MSNBC to FOX.. while pelestinians are referred to as militants, even when they're 12. justifying live fire when they are only throwing stones. or how they report on Israeli deaths on a scale of 5-1. Deaths of Israeli children get reported on 100% of the time, while Palestinian children only 20% of the time. the facts presented may be accurate, but how they present those facts, and what facts they choose to report, can shape opinion.


    media serves the state, from Fox to MSNBC, true today. and the state is bent on expansion, set to serve israel. media reflects that mentality.
    Post edited by Commy on
  • TriumphantAngel
    TriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    Commy is right on.

    just to use one example. when the 4 settlers were murdered in Hebron recently, the whole world knew about it and it was loudly condemned (and rightly so). every media outlet picked up on it and Hillary Clinton had plenty to say. so did people around here.

    a few days later when the elderly Palestinian man, his grandson and another youth were murdered, the world and media were strangely quiet.

    any reason why this is not front page news in the US and media outlets and Clinton is not condemning this?

    http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index ... Itemid=194

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