Fidel Castro tells Ahmadinejad: Stop denying the holocaust

ogre1213ogre1213 Posts: 400
edited September 2010 in A Moving Train
So I am officially a Fidel Castro fan!

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/fid ... t-1.312815


Fidel Castro tells Ahmadinejad: Stop denying the holocaust
'The Jews have lived an existence that is much harder than ours. There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust,' former Cuban leader tells U.S. journal The Atlantic.

By Natasha Mozgovaya and Haaretz Service
Tags: Israel news Jewish World anti-Semitism Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Cuba's former leader Fidel Castro has urged Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to stop slandering the Jews, according to an article published on the U.S. website The Atlantic on Tuesday.

The ageing revolutionary devoted much of a five-hour conversation to the issue of anti-Semitism, wrote Jeffrey Goldberg, who interviewed Castro in the Cuban capital Havana.


Fidel Castro

Photo by: AP

Castro told The Atlantic that the Iranian government should understand the consequences anti-Semitism.

"This went on for maybe two thousand years," he said. "I don't think anyone has been slandered more than the Jews. I would say much more than the Muslims. They have been slandered much more than the Muslims because they are blamed and slandered for everything. No one blames the Muslims for anything."

He added: "The Jews have lived an existence that is much harder than ours. There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust."

Asked by Goldberg if he would repeat his comments to Ahmadinejad, Castro said. "I am saying this so you can communicate it."

Following the interview, Goldberg spoke with Haaretz about his impression of the thinking behind Castro's comments.

"I think he [Castro] realizes he's gone too far in certain criticisms of Israel," Goldberg said.

"I think he wants to be a player in this issue; and I think he's genuinely offended by Holocaust denial."
Ahmadinejad has publicy called the Holocaust "a myth", claiming Jews exaggerated the Nazi genocide to win sympathy from European governemnts.
Some die just to live
Post edited by Unknown User on
«13456

Comments

  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    ogre1213 wrote:
    There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust."
    :roll:
  • Newch91Newch91 Posts: 17,560
    Let's hope that idiot Ahmadinejad will shut up now. I wonder if he's seen any the photos of the holocaust?
    Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
    "Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
  • _outlaw wrote:
    ogre1213 wrote:
    There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust."
    :roll:

    care to elaborate?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • "No one blames the muslims for anything"!! Seriously, i dont know excactly how things are on cuba, but over here the muslims are blamed for everything between terrorism, killing our culture, raping our women, taking our jobs and fillin up our jails. if guilty or not, they have to deal with a lots of prejudice.

    this is facts and does not by any means reflect my opinion.
  • _outlaw wrote:
    ogre1213 wrote:
    There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust."
    :roll:
    you are disgusting
    Some die just to live
  • Paul David wrote:
    _outlaw wrote:
    ogre1213 wrote:
    There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust."
    :roll:

    care to elaborate?

    Yes, please do so. I'm interested to know what you mean here.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • When even Castro thinks you're nuts, you've got problems.
    And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
  • cajunkiwi wrote:
    When even Castro thinks you're nuts, you've got problems.

    lol

    and count me in on looking for a clarification from outlaw... I wasn't a history major, but I can't recall anything on the scale of the Holocaust ever happening.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • easy tiger! maybe we should wait for clarification before burning him at the stake! :)
    ogre1213 wrote:
    _outlaw wrote:
    ogre1213 wrote:
    There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust."
    :roll:
    you are disgusting
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Allow me to play devil's advocate and ask for clarification of the statement 'there is nothing that compares to the holocaust'.....? Out of that entire article, I found that an odd statement to highlight. Kinda sensational.

    The holocaust is not history's only example of genocide. Does modern history start in 1939? What are we comparing here? Death tolls? Methods?
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    cajunkiwi wrote:
    When even Castro thinks you're nuts, you've got problems.
    Ha! That was my first reaction as well. Not that I disagree with Castro's sentiment (this one time), but this seems a bit non-sequitor, unless I'm just missing something about Castro's past. To me it's like John Madden suddenly coming out with an opinion on cricket. I'd be like, well thanks Johnny, I know you're crazy and all, but wtf do you know about cricket?

    As for Outlaw's :roll: ...I'll just say, well, here we go...
  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    "No one blames the muslims for anything"!! Seriously, i dont know excactly how things are on cuba, but over here the muslims are blamed for everything between terrorism, killing our culture, raping our women, taking our jobs and fillin up our jails. if guilty or not, they have to deal with a lots of prejudice.

    this is facts and does not by any means reflect my opinion.
    I'm not trying to be funny but where is "over here"? There are people from all over the world on this board. In England we don't blame Muslims for everything. The Prime Minister gets that accolade.
  • Newch91Newch91 Posts: 17,560
    nuffingman wrote:
    "No one blames the muslims for anything"!! Seriously, i dont know excactly how things are on cuba, but over here the muslims are blamed for everything between terrorism, killing our culture, raping our women, taking our jobs and fillin up our jails. if guilty or not, they have to deal with a lots of prejudice.

    this is facts and does not by any means reflect my opinion.
    I'm not trying to be funny but where is "over here"? There are people from all over the world on this board. In England we don't blame Muslims for everything. The Prime Minister gets that accolade.

    He could be from America but that's my best guess.
    Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
    "Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    Newch91 wrote:
    nuffingman wrote:
    "No one blames the muslims for anything"!! Seriously, i dont know excactly how things are on cuba, but over here the muslims are blamed for everything between terrorism, killing our culture, raping our women, taking our jobs and fillin up our jails. if guilty or not, they have to deal with a lots of prejudice.

    this is facts and does not by any means reflect my opinion.
    I'm not trying to be funny but where is "over here"? There are people from all over the world on this board. In England we don't blame Muslims for everything. The Prime Minister gets that accolade.

    He could be from America but that's my best guess.
    Possibly but possibly from The Netherlands. Who knows.

    I still find it unbelievable that there are idiots on this planet that believe the holocaust is a hoax. If it was, it was the most elaborate and costly hoax ever put together. I think it's more likely that they do believe it happened but just use their denial for political reasons. Visit Aushwitz Ahmadinejad and explain that.
  • Allow me to play devil's advocate and ask for clarification of the statement 'there is nothing that compares to the holocaust'.....? Out of that entire article, I found that an odd statement to highlight. Kinda sensational.

    The holocaust is not history's only example of genocide. Does modern history start in 1939? What are we comparing here? Death tolls? Methods?

    Do you know of another war or genocide that killed 11 million people?

    Whatever anyone's legitimate problems with the current situation between Israelis and Palestinians, there's really no need to stoop to rolling your eyes at how horrible the Holocaust was - for humanity, not just for Jews.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    edited September 2010
    Does anyone believe that we won't hear from outlaw again on this tread or what he meant with the eye rolling? its a shame, would be interested in learning what he meant by that.
    Post edited by fife on
  • Allow me to play devil's advocate and ask for clarification of the statement 'there is nothing that compares to the holocaust'.....? Out of that entire article, I found that an odd statement to highlight. Kinda sensational.

    The holocaust is not history's only example of genocide. Does modern history start in 1939? What are we comparing here? Death tolls? Methods?

    Do you know of another war or genocide that killed 11 million people?

    Whatever anyone's legitimate problems with the current situation between Israelis and Palestinians, there's really no need to stoop to rolling your eyes at how horrible the Holocaust was - for humanity, not just for Jews.
    I guess if it's death tolls we're comparing, then yes, by definition, it was probably the most horrific genocide in recorded history.... Although some would argue that more people were wiped out in the Western hemisphere when it was 'settled'. But I digress...my intent wasn't to downplay the significance of the holocaust. everyone is ready to pounce on outlaw, when I dont think he rolled his eyes at the holocaust at all...I don't want to speak for him, but I'm guessing he rolled his eyes because ogre chose to highlight that particular line...and I'm betting that line irks him because it is often a fallback position for Pro-Israeli's who begin to lose ground in the Israel/Palestine debate, and has been used (I don't believe by ogre?) as partial justification for what many deem another genocide.
  • ...and I'm betting that line irks him because it is often a fallback position for Pro-Israeli's who begin to lose ground in the Israel/Palestine debate, and has been used (I don't believe by ogre?) as partial justification for what many deem another genocide.

    Oh, I know exactly where this sentiment comes from. But that wasn't even mentioned here in this thread so if that's the reason he did it I submit that it was completely pre-emptive and unjustified.

    And I find it hypocritical that people who bristle at the idea of the Holocaust being inserted into the debate about the current situation in Israel don't hesitate to insert their feelings about the current situation in Israel into a discussion of the Holocaust.
  • ...and I'm betting that line irks him because it is often a fallback position for Pro-Israeli's who begin to lose ground in the Israel/Palestine debate, and has been used (I don't believe by ogre?) as partial justification for what many deem another genocide.

    Oh, I know exactly where this sentiment comes from. But that wasn't even mentioned here in this thread so if that's the reason he did it I submit that it was completely pre-emptive and unjustified.

    And I find it hypocritical that people who bristle at the idea of the Holocaust being inserted into the debate about the current situation in Israel don't hesitate to insert their feelings about the current situation in Israel into a discussion of the Holocaust.
    Well...the large bold font, used by ogre, would imply insertion of the holocaust debate into the current situation, IMO (based on his posting history). So I guess I'm as guilty of jumping to conclusions as those I'm questioning for doing the same to outlaw.
    Maybe the eye-roll was a reaction to the debate being led down that path? I don't know...
    I think I'll bow out of this one; I'm merely speculating...it's outlaw's emoticon to defend.
    Good to see you posting here again, anyway :)
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Allow me to play devil's advocate and ask for clarification of the statement 'there is nothing that compares to the holocaust'.....? Out of that entire article, I found that an odd statement to highlight. Kinda sensational.

    The holocaust is not history's only example of genocide. Does modern history start in 1939? What are we comparing here? Death tolls? Methods?
    ...
    I understand that you are playing the part of the Devil's Advocate... and I looked at that side of the ledger, too. The Turkish slaughter of 1.5 million Armenians comes to mind.
    But the Holocaust perpetrated by the Germans in the 1940s was so systematic... with efficiency of an auto manufacturing or a meat processing plant, it was horrifying. It brought genocide into the industrial age.
    So, while there certainly are comparisons to be drawn... the holocaust stands in the forefront of Man's capability of inhumanity.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    ...and I'm betting that line irks him because it is often a fallback position for Pro-Israeli's who begin to lose ground in the Israel/Palestine debate, and has been used (I don't believe by ogre?) as partial justification for what many deem another genocide.

    Oh, I know exactly where this sentiment comes from. But that wasn't even mentioned here in this thread so if that's the reason he did it I submit that it was completely pre-emptive and unjustified.

    And I find it hypocritical that people who bristle at the idea of the Holocaust being inserted into the debate about the current situation in Israel don't hesitate to insert their feelings about the current situation in Israel into a discussion of the Holocaust.

    Well said.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    Cosmo wrote:
    Allow me to play devil's advocate and ask for clarification of the statement 'there is nothing that compares to the holocaust'.....? Out of that entire article, I found that an odd statement to highlight. Kinda sensational.

    The holocaust is not history's only example of genocide. Does modern history start in 1939? What are we comparing here? Death tolls? Methods?
    ...
    I understand that you are playing the part of the Devil's Advocate... and I looked at that side of the ledger, too. The Turkish slaughter of 1.5 million Armenians comes to mind.
    But the Holocaust perpetrated by the Germans in the 1940s was so systematic... with efficiency of an auto manufacturing or a meat processing plant, it was horrifying. It brought genocide into the industrial age.
    So, while there certainly are comparisons to be drawn... the holocaust stands in the forefront of Man's capability of inhumanity.

    You could also mention the Ukrainian famine engineered by Stalin (not to mention the general purging of just about everyone), but I would agree that to some degree we're not just talking about numbers, but the fact that the holocaust was carried out on an industrial scale by industrial means.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    ogre1213 wrote:
    _outlaw wrote:
    ogre1213 wrote:
    There is nothing that compares to the Holocaust."
    :roll:
    you are disgusting
    why? cause I don't think the Nazi Holocaust of the Jews deserves its own pedestal on top of every other historical crime? I mean seriously, "nothing compares to the Holocaust"? what the hell? there have been tons of genocides that are often ignored, including the fact that more Russian civilians died during the Holocaust than Jews. But all of these are overlooked by boneheads who don't know shit about history because the Holocaust was disgustingly exploited for political purposes over the past several decades and shoved into everyone's face at the expense of tons of other people who died in similar or even worse ways. I mean, 800,000 Rwandans were killed, by hand and gun, not in industrial death camps; to me, that is just as horrible, in that, these people were just raped, tortured, and murdered in cold blood, face-to-face. my point is that to make such a statement like that, and the fact that out of everything you highlighted it, is stupid. there should be no ranking of massacres; i get the same visceral reaction when hearing of the few thousand who died in the sabra and shatila refugee camps in 1982 as the holocaust. discussing numbers, the manner of death, exact composition of who died i think is irrelevant, and only leads to controversy that detracts from the main point -- that is, past suffering shouldn't be used to justify imposing suffering.

    it is because I have respect for those who suffered during the massacre that I think it's particularly disgusting how their memories are abused for political purposes. this is a perfect example. while i don't in any way mean to defend Ahmadinejad, this article is used to demonize him for political purposes. there are examples of many people in countries friendly to Israel who often say horribly anti-Semitic things including holocaust denial, but they get ignored especially by mainstream media because it would hurt them politically to target such people. But because it is politically convenient to target Iran, they do so.

    Last, I disagree with michelle when she said (roughly) that "it's hypocritical to mention the holocaust in a political context" due to the fact that this is not a historical discussion on the holocaust and the article has obvious political implications.
  • There are a few examples of genocide in the seven-digit death toll range. The oft-overlooked 'settling' of the Western hemisphere, and the 'taming' of it's 'savages', by most estimates, trumps them all....but these comparisons turn atrocities into competitions...that's why the "nothing compares" highlight rubbed ME the wrong way.

    I think ogre was being provocative (read: trolling) by highlighting that line...he knew full well he'd be called on it.

    Does anyone believe we won't hear from ogre again in this thread, or what he meant by supporting that statement? ;)
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,619
    why? cause I don't think the Nazi Holocaust of the Jews deserves its own pedestal on top of every other historical crime? I mean seriously, "nothing compares to the Holocaust"? what the hell? there have been tons of genocides that are often ignored, including the fact that more Russian civilians died during the Holocaust than Jews. But all of these are overlooked by boneheads who don't know shit about history because the Holocaust was disgustingly exploited for political purposes over the past several decades and shoved into everyone's face at the expense of tons of other people who died in similar or even worse ways. I mean, 800,000 Rwandans were killed, by hand and gun, not in industrial death camps; to me, that is just as horrible, in that, these people were just raped, tortured, and murdered in cold blood, face-to-face. my point is that to make such a statement like that, and the fact that out of everything you highlighted it, is stupid. there should be no ranking of massacres; i get the same visceral reaction when hearing of the few thousand who died in the sabra and shatila refugee camps in 1982 as the holocaust. discussing numbers, the manner of death, exact composition of who died i think is irrelevant, and only leads to controversy that detracts from the main point -- that is, past suffering shouldn't be used to justify imposing suffering.

    it is because I have respect for those who suffered during the massacre that I think it's particularly disgusting how their memories are abused for political purposes. this is a perfect example. while i don't in any way mean to defend Ahmadinejad, this article is used to demonize him for political purposes. there are examples of many people in countries friendly to Israel who often say horribly anti-Semitic things including holocaust denial, but they get ignored especially by mainstream media because it would hurt them politically to target such people. But because it is politically convenient to target Iran, they do so.

    Last, I disagree with michelle when she said (roughly) that "it's hypocritical to mention the holocaust in a political context" due to the fact that this is not a historical discussion on the holocaust and the article has obvious political implications.[/quote]




    What are the roots of your deep feelings towards anything related to Judaism?

    BTW, Happy Rosh Hassanah!

    I am surprised no one has complained how we run on a different calendar!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    There are a few examples of genocide in the seven-digit death toll range. The oft-overlooked 'settling' of the Western hemisphere, and the 'taming' of it's 'savages', by most estimates, trumps them all....but these comparisons turn atrocities into competitions...that's why the "nothing compares" highlight rubbed ME the wrong way.

    I think ogre was being provocative (read: trolling) by highlighting that line...he knew full well he'd be called on it.

    Does anyone believe we won't hear from ogre again in this thread, or what he meant by supporting that statement? ;)
    ...
    The guy is just stiring the pot...
    ...
    I don't think anyone believes this is a competition, other that the most dim-witted amongst us... or that anyone believes other genocides are lessened. But, when you mention the term, 'Genocide'... the Holocaust always pops to the forefront. Why is that?
    And when I say it was so industrial... I meant it was so nonchalant... indifferent... almost like a place of employment. Yeah, getting chased down and macheted is horrific... but, the hatred is clearly visible. The hatred in the holocaust wasn't as clearly visable... and more like processing raw materials or leather goods.
    ...
    Finally, there is a huge difference between saying there were worse genocides in Man's history... and denying that the Holocaust never occurred. Which is the basis of this thread.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Eisenhower – Dead
    Kennedy - dead
    Johnson - dead
    Nixon - dead
    Ford - dead
    Reagan - dead


    Castro: "Ahmadinejad is Anti-Semitic. Nobody's been slandered more than the Jews.

    The Missile Crisis wasn't worth it all. Oh, and I win."
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Allow me to play devil's advocate and ask for clarification of the statement 'there is nothing that compares to the holocaust'.....? Out of that entire article, I found that an odd statement to highlight. Kinda sensational.

    The holocaust is not history's only example of genocide. Does modern history start in 1939? What are we comparing here? Death tolls? Methods?

    Do you know of another war or genocide that killed 11 million people?

    Whatever anyone's legitimate problems with the current situation between Israelis and Palestinians, there's really no need to stoop to rolling your eyes at how horrible the Holocaust was - for humanity, not just for Jews.

    Mao Tse Tung. Perhaps over 40 million during the cultural revolution...
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Smellyman wrote:
    Allow me to play devil's advocate and ask for clarification of the statement 'there is nothing that compares to the holocaust'.....? Out of that entire article, I found that an odd statement to highlight. Kinda sensational.

    The holocaust is not history's only example of genocide. Does modern history start in 1939? What are we comparing here? Death tolls? Methods?

    Do you know of another war or genocide that killed 11 million people?

    Whatever anyone's legitimate problems with the current situation between Israelis and Palestinians, there's really no need to stoop to rolling your eyes at how horrible the Holocaust was - for humanity, not just for Jews.

    Mao Tse Tung. Perhaps over 40 million during the cultural revolution...
    the slaughter of american indians. also said to be 40 million.
  • NoKNoK Posts: 824
    If its turned into a pissing match...

    "About 2 million Cambodians are estimated to have died in waves of murder, torture, and starvation, aimed particularly at the educated and intellectual elite. Following their leader Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge imposed an extreme form of social engineering on Cambodian society — a radical form of agrarian communism where the whole population had to work in collective farms or forced labor projects. In terms of the number of people killed as a proportion of the population (est. 7.1 million people, as of 1975), it was the most lethal regime of the 20th century."
Sign In or Register to comment.