Fidel Castro tells Ahmadinejad: Stop denying the holocaust

Drowned Out

yosi wrote:

Or, of course, there was this wonderful event:

The International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust was a two-day conference that opened on December 11, 2006, in Tehran, Iran. The Iranian Foreign Minister, Manouchehr Mottaki, said the conference sought "neither to deny nor prove the Holocaust... [but] to provide an appropriate scientific atmosphere for scholars to offer their opinions in freedom about a historical issue." The 67 attendees from 30 countries included...the American David Duke, former member of the Louisiana House of Representatives and Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan...Holocaust deniers Robert Faurisson and Fredrick Töben...
The conference was widely described as a "Holocaust denial conference" or a "meeting of Holocaust deniers", and provoked worldwide criticism. Out of a total of 33 reports given at the conference, 6 were given by holocaust deniers.

American David Duke, a former Louisiana State Representative and one-time Ku Klux Klan leader, attended the conference. French writer Georges Thiel, who had been convicted under Holocaust denial laws in France, attended, as did Fredrick Töben of Australia who had been imprisoned in Germany for three months in 1999 for Holocaust denial. Robert Faurisson, a convicted Holocaust denier from France also attended, as well as Ahmed Rami, a Swedish-Moroccan Holocaust denier who was imprisoned in Sweden for inciting racial hatred...French Holocaust denier Roger Garaudy was unable to attend the conference for health reasons.

Why not link the wiki article you're quoting?
Why did you edit out the names of Western scholars and Jews who attended?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... _Holocaust

yosi

Ok, that's very fancy footwork, but I think when you look at his record, which is lengthy, of shady comments on the matter, plus the conference, plus the evasions when asked about the issue, I think it is pretty hard, if you're objective, not to think that he's a denier (albeit one who is clever enough to phrase his denials as mere "questions," or to shroud his denial in the politics of Israel-Palestine). In my opinion he is a holocaust denier. He does just enough to allow his apologists to argue otherwise, but I think to objective eyes and ears his words speak for themselves. Which is probably why virtually the entire world, including now Fidel Castro (no lover of Israel or America) has condemned him for exactly this.

yosi

Because I'm not interested in getting into a discussion about Neturei Karta (basically they will get in bed with anybody who's against Israel), and because I wanted to make a narrow point about holocaust denial. I wasn't trying to hide anything, just to emphasize my point.

Drowned Out

yosi wrote:

Ok, that's very fancy footwork, but I think when you look at his record, which is lengthy, of shady comments on the matter, plus the conference, plus the evasions when asked about the issue, I think it is pretty hard, if you're objective, not to think that he's a denier (albeit one who is clever enough to phrase his denials as mere "questions," or to shroud his denial in the politics of Israel-Palestine). In my opinion he is a holocaust denier. He does just enough to allow his apologists to argue otherwise, but I think to objective eyes and ears his words speak for themselves. Which is probably why virtually the entire world, including now Fidel Castro (no lover of Israel or America) has condemned him for exactly this.

I'd like to have a look at this lengthy record if you've got any other instances to share...
The fancy footwork is not Ahmadinejad's, it is the media's. I find it interesting that you consider asking questions a 'shroud' for denial...he is obviously trying to frame his words carefully...maybe it is in order to hide his true intent...but maybe it is in order to avoid detracting from the questions he is asking? Seems the questions themselves are enough to discredit him in the eyes of some (most).
I don't think focusing on your own opinion, an inference, as opposed to addressing the valid points he makes, constitutes objectivity. The statements are regretful, especially considering the opportunity it affords his critics to avoid the underlying questions he asks. Although...if not for the comments about the holocaust, and the opportunity to villify him, these statements never would have seen the light of day in the West.

Byrnzie

yosi wrote:

Or, of course, there was this wonderful event:

The International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust was a two-day conference that opened on December 11, 2006, in Tehran, Iran. The Iranian Foreign Minister, Manouchehr Mottaki, said the conference sought "neither to deny nor prove the Holocaust... [but] to provide an appropriate scientific atmosphere for scholars to offer their opinions in freedom about a historical issue." The 67 attendees from 30 countries included...the American David Duke, former member of the Louisiana House of Representatives and Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan...Holocaust deniers Robert Faurisson and Fredrick Töben...
The conference was widely described as a "Holocaust denial conference" or a "meeting of Holocaust deniers", and provoked worldwide criticism. Out of a total of 33 reports given at the conference, 6 were given by holocaust deniers.

American David Duke, a former Louisiana State Representative and one-time Ku Klux Klan leader, attended the conference. French writer Georges Thiel, who had been convicted under Holocaust denial laws in France, attended, as did Fredrick Töben of Australia who had been imprisoned in Germany for three months in 1999 for Holocaust denial. Robert Faurisson, a convicted Holocaust denier from France also attended, as well as Ahmed Rami, a Swedish-Moroccan Holocaust denier who was imprisoned in Sweden for inciting racial hatred...French Holocaust denier Roger Garaudy was unable to attend the conference for health reasons.

So out of '33 reports given at the conference, 6 were given by holocaust deniers'. And who classified these six 'holocaust deniers', and for what reasons?

Byrnzie

yosi wrote:

Because I'm not interested in getting into a discussion about Neturei Karta (basically they will get in bed with anybody who's against Israel), and because I wanted to make a narrow point about holocaust denial. I wasn't trying to hide anything, just to emphasize my point.

Yosi, would you - along with the Israeli government - like to see Iran wiped off the face of the Earth?

polaris_x

at this stage - it doesn't really matter whether the dude is a holocaust denier ... it's already engrained in the public consciousness ... even today, it was reported that Canada was boycotting his speech to the general assembly and it was reiterated YET again that he was a holocaust denier and that iran wants israel to be wiped off the map ...

soo ... similar to many things ... people will believe what they want to hear ... and substance/truth have no bearing ...

yosi

Byrnzie, I'll speak for myself. No, I most certainly do not want Iran to be wiped off the face of the earth, just as I do not want to be baited by you.

I would, however, appreciate it if Iran would stop denying the holocaust, stop calling for Israel's destruction, stop funding and arming terrorist organizations, stop repressing it's own people, and stop building nuclear weapons.

Commy

yosi wrote:

I would, however, appreciate it if Iran would stop denying the holocaust,

they never started

stop calling for Israel's destruction,

once again, no one from iran has suggested israel be destroyed, they don't have the means to anyway.

stop funding and arming terrorist organizations,

i agree, all states need to stop this. starting with the biggest exporters and participators of terrorism, Israel and the US.

stop repressing it's own people, and stop building nuclear weapons.

yes Israel needs to do this. oh you were talking about iran right.....ever wonder why they want nukes?


when you give 60 billion in arms to a state near them, don't you think they would want the one piece of military technology that can keep them safe?


the empire's foreign policy is encouraging them to seek nuclear weapons.

yosi

It constantly amazes me how eager people on this board are to be apologists for Iran. It's really amazing.

Commy

the goal is to prevent war.



isnt' that the worst possible outcome? what we fear so much that iran will do?



war is killing little kids by the thousands, it is humanity at its worst. and any mention of iran is an attempt to demonize them or their leader......what is the point of that talk? do you want to see an invasion?

JOEJOEJOE

yosi wrote:

It constantly amazes me how eager people on this board are to be apologists for Iran. It's really amazing.

Do you think they are apologizing for Iran, or automatically taking the anti-Israel stance?

yosi

I do not want to see an invasion. But the way things are going, it looks more and more like Iran is bent on forcing a conflict. Either that, or they are delusional, and have utterly misread how other countries will react to their provocations.

yosi

Joe, I don't think there is much of a practical difference.

gimmesometruth27

yosi wrote:

Joe, I don't think there is much of a practical difference.

yeah as you automatically take the pro-israel stand :roll:

yosi

What does that mean, the "pro-Israel" stand?

JOEJOEJOE

yosi wrote:

Joe, I don't think there is much of a practical difference.

I know, but some people here are just so clever in disguising their true feelings, it is difficult to recognize the difference .

Enjoy your special status, my brother!

Commy

yosi wrote:

I do not want to see an invasion. But the way things are going, it looks more and more like Iran is bent on forcing a conflict. Either that, or they are delusional, and have utterly misread how other countries will react to their provocations.

your logic is flawed.


few countries, i would say none ever in the history of countries, would do something knowing it would lead to their destruction.

these are human beings in Iran, just like everybody else.

gimmesometruth27

yosi wrote:

What does that mean, the "pro-Israel" stand?

i am not taking your bait, but i said that because you and others foolishly assume that people like me "automatically take the anti-israel side" which is utterly and completely false.

i do not support netanyahu or most of his policies. i am entitled to my opinion. and as long as he is committing human rights violations (or allowing them to happen, blockade, flotilla, etc) and screwing around with the peace negotiations by asking for one of OUR prisoners, a spy for israel, to be freed in order to stop the settlements, he is wide open to criticism.

yosi

You are certainly entitled to your opinions. But that wasn't meant as bait. I would like to know what you meant when you said that I am always "pro-Israel"?