For those of you who haven't read Misskelley's original confession, here it is. I don't know, it doesn't read to me like he's being coerced into a confession. It's pretty detailed. But it is in print. I might have a different perspective if I were to hear the tape. I don't know. Be warned though, it's pretty graphic stuff.
For those of you who haven't read Misskelley's original confession, here it is. I don't know, it doesn't read to me like he's being coerced into a confession. It's pretty detailed. But it is in print. I might have a different perspective if I were to hear the tape. I don't know. Be warned though, it's pretty graphic stuff.
I guess the OP doesn't know how the pigs...err.....police operate....there are plenty of innocent people who have gone to jail for shit they didn't do...not that they are the majority...but it's not as rare as you'd like to think it is.
shit, if they had speedy mccready in a room long enough, they could get HIM to confess to the murders too!!!
and i think his IQ is more than 75! zing zing zing!
i guess you don't know how the "pigs" operate, either. police arrest. judges/juries convict. the police designate a charge, and it's up to the judge to decide whether or not that person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. police can't put someone on death row.
but, yeah, it's so original and rebellious to hate on pigs.
For those of you who haven't read Misskelley's original confession, here it is. I don't know, it doesn't read to me like he's being coerced into a confession. It's pretty detailed. But it is in print. I might have a different perspective if I were to hear the tape. I don't know. Be warned though, it's pretty graphic stuff.
detailed confession is an understatement. Those poor 8yr old boys. Screwing, anal rape, forced blow jobs, unthinkable cutting. If this is what he was coerced into saying, how evil the people behind it must be. All I can think is those poor 8 yr old boys. what they must have gone through! if evidence had shown all this rape...those poor boys! If one of them had been my son I think I would kill the people involved, but first have the crime done to them. Those poor little boys.
I don't think I will ever let my son out of my sight again.
a lot of the time the police act on pressure from the DA and from their own higher ups to arrest someone, anyone, to appease the public. it happens. it's not the norm, but it does happen.
i guess you don't know how the "pigs" operate, either. police arrest. judges/juries convict. the police designate a charge, and it's up to the judge to decide whether or not that person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. police can't put someone on death row.
but, yeah, it's so original and rebellious to hate on pigs.
Gimli 1993
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i guess you don't know how the "pigs" operate, either. police arrest. judges/juries convict. the police designate a charge, and it's up to the judge to decide whether or not that person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. police can't put someone on death row.
but, yeah, it's so original and rebellious to hate on pigs.
Police can (and unfortunately sometimes do) want to make their own lives easier by coercing someone, like an easy scapegoat who is already viewed as an outcast, to make a confession.
i guess you don't know how the "pigs" operate, either. police arrest. judges/juries convict. the police designate a charge, and it's up to the judge to decide whether or not that person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. police can't put someone on death row.
but, yeah, it's so original and rebellious to hate on pigs.
Police can (and unfortunately sometimes do) want to make their own lives easier by coercing someone, like an easy scapegoat who is already viewed as an outcast, to make a confession.
yes, absolutely. i 100% agree with yours, and the guy above yours, statement. in this particular case, the police wanted to provide the public with a bad guy. not solving the murders of three children would be a black eye on the department. if three grown men were murdered, it would be a totally different story.
i just mean that the police aren't the ones who make the convictions and choose the sentencing.
yes, absolutely. i 100% agree with yours, and the guy above yours, statement. in this particular case, the police wanted to provide the public with a bad guy. not solving the murders of three children would be a black eye on the department. if three grown men were murdered, it would be a totally different story.
i just mean that the police aren't the ones who make the convictions and choose the sentencing.
I understand the police's whole possible need to bring closure to the crime, but to coerce a half-retarded boy into fabricating such details--I really don't know. I know I need to learn more about the case.
"if three grown men were murdered, it would be a totally different story"...that's a real shame. that 3 8 yr old boys raped and brutally murdered aren't given a full investigation. that 3 8yr old boys aren't alive to voice what really happened. what a shame that it couldn't get worked out. that those 3 8yr old boys are just numbers to the Arkansas judicial system.
Let's not forget how often police officers/departments are in bed with other members of the justice system, like judges, attorneys, etc. My dad has tried numerous cases in which egregious unethical behavior has occurred by members of law enforcement, judicial systems, etc. Recently, he was prosecuting a case in which the DA was the judge's best man at his wedding, and the judge didn't recuse himself from the case. Police officers often have deals and are buddies with other powerful individuals, and in a small town, it's possible that the jurors were aware of what was expected of them by others, like the judge/police, who could be their next-door neighbor. It just seems like a lot of police officers and justice departments operate a pretty fine-tuned machine in which they have an understanding of "how things work", and if you get caught on the wrong end of it, you're screwed.
I understand the police's whole possible need to bring closure to the crime, but to coerce a half-retarded boy into fabricating such details--I really don't know. I know I need to learn more about the case.
"if three grown men were murdered, it would be a totally different story"...that's a real shame. that 3 8 yr old boys raped and brutally murdered aren't given a full investigation. that 3 8yr old boys aren't alive to voice what really happened. what a shame that it couldn't get worked out. that those 3 8yr old boys are just numbers to the Arkansas judicial system.
no, i meant that if three grown men were murdered, those teens probably would not have been convicted because there wouldn't have been as much of an outcry from the public. it would have been a different story for the west memphis 3
but yeah, what you're saying makes sense, too. in the end, those three children did not receive a full investigation.
i quote a certain mayor
"You yell barracuda, everybody's just 'huh? what?'... You yell shark, we got a panic on our hands on the fourth of July"
"I kind of enjoy it because now even after I die people are going to remember me forever. They're going to talk about me for years, People in West Memphis will tell their kids stories. It will be like, sort of like I'm the West Memphis boogeyman. Little kids will be looking under their beds."
As much as I understand the doubts in this case... who the fuck says this kind of stuff AFTER THEY ARE CONVICTED? At this point there's no reason to "joke around" anymore. Listening to Ed was interesting, and I have my doubts, but this segment in particular of Damien saying that... Well, it makes me wonder... though another trial couldn't be bad for anyone - even though the victims families want closure - I can't help but think if it was my son or brother as painful as it may be I'd rather open the can of worms again to be sure we got the right guys than take the chance the real sick bastard is still out there.
So if three 8 year old boys were brutally murdered in your hometown, would you go around joking that you did it? Come on, theres a difference between joking about that and making dead michael jackson jokes.
I'm not saying I would, but I know people that would joke about that kind of thing. I don't know if the news of Madeleine McCann (young British girl snatched while she was sleeping on holiday in Portugal a couple of years ago, still hasn't been found) reached your country - but people make jokes about that all the time. In fact if you type her name into google, 'Madeleine McCann jokes' is the second suggested search term that comes up.
So if three 8 year old boys were brutally murdered in your hometown, would you go around joking that you did it? Come on, theres a difference between joking about that and making dead michael jackson jokes.
I'm not saying I would, but I know people that would joke about that kind of thing. I don't know if the news of Madeleine McCann (young British girl snatched while she was sleeping on holiday in Portugal a couple of years ago, still hasn't been found) reached your country - but people make jokes about that all the time. In fact if you type her name into google, 'Madeleine McCann jokes' is the second suggested search term that comes up.
This is true, but if you were the one convicted Id agree its a little odd to be making the jokes yourself, especially when the intended humour is a little too contrived for an apparant "retard"
but then again i definitely fall into the category of people who dont know enough about this case to really have a view on it......But i also wouldnt want to support the guy just because Eddie does.....clearly Eddie knows far far more, and I have massive respect for him doing what he is doing here, but i understand its important to think about this for ourselves and come to our own conclusions....
detailed confession is an understatement. Those poor 8yr old boys. Screwing, anal rape, forced blow jobs, unthinkable cutting. If this is what he was coerced into saying, how evil the people behind it must be. All I can think is those poor 8 yr old boys. what they must have gone through! if evidence had shown all this rape...those poor boys! If one of them had been my son I think I would kill the people involved, but first have the crime done to them. Those poor little boys.
I don't think I will ever let my son out of my sight again.
I was sympathetic with you until you said that... Those are some pretty horrendous double standards you've got there.
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
detailed confession is an understatement. Those poor 8yr old boys. Screwing, anal rape, forced blow jobs, unthinkable cutting. If this is what he was coerced into saying, how evil the people behind it must be. All I can think is those poor 8 yr old boys. what they must have gone through! if evidence had shown all this rape...those poor boys! If one of them had been my son I think I would kill the people involved, but first have the crime done to them. Those poor little boys.
I don't think I will ever let my son out of my sight again.
I was sympathetic with you until you said that... Those are some pretty horrendous double standards you've got there.
I hear you, and you are right, but do try to understand the raw emotion this crime evokes in every person who hears it, and then multiply that off the chart when imagining if it was your child. Its hard to say you would remain so level headed in that situation. In fact Im not sure anyone would be able to think straight for a long long time, if at all ever again.
To put it simple if that had happened to my child, I would never ever be able to come to terms with it. I dare say i would border the mindset of a mental patient, so that said what the person said above is probably not far wrong in terms of how most people would internally deal with that level of grief within.
Its not right, of course not, but in that scenario i dont think that person would be alone in thinking that.
detailed confession is an understatement. Those poor 8yr old boys. Screwing, anal rape, forced blow jobs, unthinkable cutting. If this is what he was coerced into saying, how evil the people behind it must be. All I can think is those poor 8 yr old boys. what they must have gone through! if evidence had shown all this rape...those poor boys! If one of them had been my son I think I would kill the people involved, but first have the crime done to them. Those poor little boys.
I don't think I will ever let my son out of my sight again.
I was sympathetic with you until you said that... Those are some pretty horrendous double standards you've got there.
I hear you, and you are right, but do try to understand the raw emotion this crime evokes in every person who hears it, and then multiply that off the chart when imagining if it was your child. Its hard to say you would remain so level headed in that situation. In fact Im not sure anyone would be able to think straight for a long long time, if at all ever again.
To put it simple if that had happened to my child, I would never ever be able to come to terms with it. I dare say i would border the mindset of a mental patient, so that said what the person said above is probably not far wrong in terms of how most people would internally deal with that level of grief within.
Its not right, of course not, but in that scenario i dont think that person would be alone in thinking that.
Yep, I'm with you and agree 100%. I understand the visceral rage of the reaction. But I just believe once you call for the same thing to happen to the perpetrator, you lose all moral credibility. It's another of the reasons why I believe the death penalty cannot be condoned under any circumstances. Not justice, just emotion-driven vengeance...
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
absolutely right, and I would also say that i have always stood opposed to the death penalty. If a terrible happening occured to one of my loved ones, i have no idea if that stance would survive.
Does anyone ever have the right to kill another? in my eyes this is a definite no, whether legally approved or not. Does revenge ever really heal the wound? i would think not too. But I know if anyone ever messed with my family, my ideals would waver....but thats natural, and very subjective.
absolutely right, and I would also say that i have always stood opposed to the death penalty. If a terrible happening occured to one of my loved ones, i have no idea if that stance would survive.
Does anyone ever have the right to kill another? in my eyes this is a definite no, whether legally approved or not. Does revenge ever really heal the wound? i would think not too. But I know if anyone ever messed with my family, my ideals would waver....but thats natural, and very subjective.
But objectively we are on the same page.
Yeah, i think so
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
all ed, john, and natalie need to do is offer up 3 million dollars and someone will begin to sing.
I would bet my life that Ed has already donated extremely generously to this cause. The legal process is an extremely costly one, and the cost of retrying a case and paying a legal defense team over the course of 17 years is astronomical. I'm sure Ed and the rest of them have given a solid amount of money thus far.
i am not speaking of donations or paying bills..........offer up a reward, a significant reward.
someone will sing......if 3 million is not enough, 4 million, 5 million........keep going until someone sings.
what will happen........they will discover that the killer(s), is currently in the correct place.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
all ed, john, and natalie need to do is offer up 3 million dollars and someone will begin to sing.
I would bet my life that Ed has already donated extremely generously to this cause. The legal process is an extremely costly one, and the cost of retrying a case and paying a legal defense team over the course of 17 years is astronomical. I'm sure Ed and the rest of them have given a solid amount of money thus far.
i am not speaking of donations or paying bills..........offer up a reward, a significant reward.
someone will sing......if 3 million is not enough, 4 million, 5 million........keep going until someone sings.
what will happen........they will discover that the killer(s), is currently in the correct place.
Someone will sing for money? you really think someone is out there hiding the truth over these brutal murders - they would hide a person for all these years and then drop them for cash?
You really think eddie can afford to drop 5mill like that?
or are you saying that someone will sing to compound the guilt of those in prison?
Regarding this: "I just think its kinda odd that Johnny Depp goes up on stage and reads Mr. Echols writings with a fake english accent (hes american , right? ) and everyone applauds him and thinks hes so great. It sounded like the guy was reading for a part. "
NO WAY
'Cause I'll stop trying to make a difference
I'm not trying to make a difference
I'll stop trying to make a difference
No way (2X)
107 total First-Summerfest, Milwaukee '95 Most recent: 2018 Stadium shows: Seattle 2, Missoula, Fenway 1 and 2; 2022: Oakland 1 and 2
I watched the interview on larry King last night and learned more about the case and everything but I still have alot of questions. Does anybody think its odd that one of the convicted guys actually confessed to the murders and gave details but wants it retracted because he has a low IQ? They never brought that up last night when Larry was interviewing the lawyer. Also, has any celebrities supported the victims familys with money or a concert? I just think its kinda odd that Johnny Depp goes up on stage and reads Mr. Echols writings with a fake english accent (hes american , right? ) and everyone applauds him and thinks hes so great. It sounded like the guy was reading for a part. These three guys were not saints and I think its kinda odd that 17 years later all this new evidence has shown up. I do applaud Eddies efforts but after watching last, I have more questions than answers. What do others think?
As to the 'confession' of Jessie Miskelley, if you watch Paradise Lost & Paradise Lost 2 and read the information available online, you will learn that it was not a confession but rather a coerced statement. Misskelley, at the time, was said to have a low IQ of 72. This is significant but not to say people of such a nature should not be trusted or to discredit his intelligence in any way. It is significant because it makes what was submitted by the police inadmissible in a court of law. And thus, it shd not have been considered by the jury in making their decision to convict him. In my opinion the second and third statements (not confessions) are just as implausible because of this and because they can be construed to be like the follow-ups of a child who has been caught on a lie - his intentions could have been to to try and mend the situation (in is own humble way). He apparently ignored legal advice to refrain from comment during the making of one of these statements. He did not recant his statement because of his IQ, he recanted it, as he says in the documentaries, because he had been led to tell the police what they wanted to hear and then probably regretted having played into their hands. If you watch the documentaries you will see Misskelley is not a blithering idiot the label of having a low IQ suggests. He's quite quick-witted and can carry out a normal conversation with no problems. But there is a reason why proper legal procedure calls for certain measure to be out in place when a person of this nature is to be interrogated by the police. Since he was questioned for many hours as a regular person wd have been (having the mental capacity of someone far younger, it wd have been proper to have legal counsel present and have explicit permission for the interrogation from a parent/guardian), but all this was absent and he was reportedly interrogated for approx 12 hrs. Out of this, only 2 separate parts of the interview were recorded totalling abt 45min. Fishy? I think so. Experts on evidence have proposed that the police may have interrogated Misskelley in such a way that he said all that they needed just to get out from under all the pressure - something we all have in us. Read this and form your own opinion as to how believable you think his statements are and whether 3 ppl shd have been convicted of murder based partly on it: http://freewm3.blogspot.com/2006/08/con ... de-by.html
As to the 'celebrities' contacting the families of the victims: besides the incidents of statements such as the one from Eddie to Mrs. Moore (posted on LKL blog) and comments made during the recent rally and those held in the past, I have not heard of this happening. Part of me thinks it's rather biased but I also agree with others on this thread who said that it would be pointless. As for raising money for and organising concerts in aid of the 3 families I really don't see the point of that either. Why do victims of murders need money raised for them? It will certainly not replace their loss. They are not in need of money because their children were murdered. They need the truth. It has become the norm for public figures to take up causes they believe in and bring it to their fans and the general public. I think it's advantageous as it ignites public debate and shines a spotlight on things going on in society that wd otherwise be overlooked.
As for Johnny's accent: A lit bit of 'googling' will tell you that Pirates of the Caribbean 4 is currently being filmed. And a little more 'googling' will tell you that Johnny Depp is purported to be a passionate actor who is fully absorbed by his character during filming. Captain Jack Sparrow was probably creeping out a little when Johnny was trying to read
Finally: I don't know the WM3 personally so I cannot say if their saints or otherwise, but over the years and behind all the smoke and mirrors that can be present during legal trials, during interviews and messages, they can be seen as being nothing but normal human beings. None of us are in a position to judge them for what kind of teenagers they were before or at the time of the murders. Or imply that because they were a certain way or did certain things they are without a doubt guilty for these murders.
And all this evidence has not just materialised all at once suddenly after 17yrs ... I think it has been discovered over time - partly due to the initial lack of resources, competence and level of expertise available to the defence and also due to the reality that legal proceedings take time. For example, because under the initial investigations none of the families of the victims were questioned as extensively as one might expect in such a murder case, Terry Hobbs' story was never known until he decided to sue Natalie Pasdar (Natalie Maines) and was deposed. If I'm not mistaken, that happened just last year.
Having more questions than answers is a good thing .... they'll help you take an informed stand on things :geek:
if I keep holding out,.... will the light shine through?
As to the 'confession' of Jessie Miskelley, if you watch Paradise Lost & Paradise Lost 2 and read the information available online, you will learn that it was not a confession but rather a coerced statement. Misskelley, at the time, was said to have a low IQ of 72. This is significant but not to say people of such a nature should not be trusted or to discredit his intelligence in any way. It is significant because it makes what was submitted by the police inadmissible in a court of law. And thus, it shd not have been considered by the jury in making their decision to convict him. In my opinion the second and third statements (not confessions) are just as implausible because of this and because they can be construed to be like the follow-ups of a child who has been caught on a lie - his intentions could have been to to try and mend the situation (in is own humble way). He apparently ignored legal advice to refrain from comment during the making of one of these statements. He did not recant his statement because of his IQ, he recanted it, as he says in the documentaries, because he had been led to tell the police what they wanted to hear and then probably regretted having played into their hands. If you watch the documentaries you will see Misskelley is not a blithering idiot the label of having a low IQ suggests. He's quite quick-witted and can carry out a normal conversation with no problems. But there is a reason why proper legal procedure calls for certain measure to be out in place when a person of this nature is to be interrogated by the police. Since he was questioned for many hours as a regular person wd have been (having the mental capacity of someone far younger, it wd have been proper to have legal counsel present and have explicit permission for the interrogation from a parent/guardian), but all this was absent and he was reportedly interrogated for approx 12 hrs. Out of this, only 2 separate parts of the interview were recorded totalling abt 45min. Fishy? I think so. Experts on evidence have proposed that the police may have interrogated Misskelley in such a way that he said all that they needed just to get out from under all the pressure - something we all have in us. Read this and form your own opinion as to how believable you think his statements are and whether 3 ppl shd have been convicted of murder based partly on it: http://freewm3.blogspot.com/2006/08/con ... de-by.html
this reminds me of that case where the employees of a daycare were falsely accused of molesting kids, and it turned out that the young kids were lying.
Unfortunately, I can't watch Paradise Lost for another few days, when I have more time.
I have found out so much just by coming here though. thanks to all I've gotten info from. I'll try not to take up too much space with my crazy posts. I'll probably be back on here next week sometime. Everyone have a great weekend.
Someone will sing for money? you really think someone is out there hiding the truth over these brutal murders - they would hide a person for all these years and then drop them for cash?
You really think eddie can afford to drop 5mill like that?
or are you saying that someone will sing to compound the guilt of those in prison?
confused[/quote]
1. either the thing that killed these boys is locked up or someone is hiding valuable information about the thing. yes, i believe once the amount of monies is significant enough to outweigh the consequences of turning over the killer(s), they will do it. regardless of how much time has passed.
2. i have no idea of what he can afford........what i estimate is, he has the resources to approach this justice or injustice from many angles.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
Someone will sing for money? you really think someone is out there hiding the truth over these brutal murders - they would hide a person for all these years and then drop them for cash?
You really think eddie can afford to drop 5mill like that?
or are you saying that someone will sing to compound the guilt of those in prison?
confused
1. either the thing that killed these boys is locked up or someone is hiding valuable information about the thing. yes, i believe once the amount of monies is significant enough to outweigh the consequences of turning over the killer(s), they will do it. regardless of how much time has passed.
2. i have no idea of what he can afford........what i estimate is, he has the resources to approach this justice or injustice from many angles.[/quote]
i doubt this very much, the crime itself would be enough to bring out evidence if there was any. Well in my mind it would, perhaps the world isnt as rosy as I like to think it is. maybe im naive.
If i ever was privy to such information, id hand it over in a heartbeat, not for a few million, but to ensure the scumbag can never do it again..
as for Vedder - why should he load this with huge amounts of cash? he isnt the justice dept, he isnt responsbile for offering rewards, why on earth should he do this? He has a family too....he has to think about their financial stability....sure hes a rock star - hes probably very rich, but his two children have a full future ahead of them that Im sure he would like to ensure he can support fully, and also I hear Eddie is regularly supporting various charities personally and as part of PJ.
He has already thrown his voice behind the cause, and a voice is often more powerful to raise awareness than money will ever be, he has put his time into it and already some element of his own money........To offer up a personal reward to right an injustice he feels is present is wholly unreasonable to expect.....
And still I hope Ed has made the right call on all this........but will we ever know?
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,121
Just a few general comments/observations that are not necessarily specific to this case (in other words, I am not terribly familiar with the facts of the case, so I will not speak to it):
1) Yes, there are people who make jokes like that. I grew up in a, let's say, low-rent town, and there were many young people who just were not good or kind or decent. I played on a softball team in jr. high. One day, a funeral procession passed the field where we were practicing, and the other girls on the team started laughing and screaming "You suck! I'm glad your friend's dead! You all should die, too! I hope you're all miserable!" I was shocked -- they had no idea who was being buried, they just thought it was acceptable to hurl abuse at a funeral procession. And these were girls.
2) Scumbags like the girls I just described still have rights. So it's not okay to assume that just because they are trash, they probably are guilty of all sorts of other things. I'll admit it, if I had a daughter, the WM3 do not look like the sort of guys I would want her bringing home; they still deserve a fair trial.
3) From what I have heard, Johnny Depp is a devoted dad. We're not supposed to talk about Ed's family, but I get the same impression from him. No parent who cares at all about their children would be able to look at a case like this and advocate for the WM3 unless they had taken a really hard look at the facts and were absolutely convinced that the justice system had failed. We already have a number of posts from parents about what they would do were their children attacked -- and I would be right there with them. Maybe Ed is being hoodwinked -- I certainly don't know. I believe he is convinced that something is grossly wrong with this case.
4) Nothing will bring back those little boys. A new trial won't do it, the death penalty won't do it. Overturning the convictions might tear the scab off of the parents' emotional wounds, but those wounds never will heal, regardless of what happens next. There is nothing Ed can say to those parents that will help them.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Just a few general comments/observations that are not necessarily specific to this case (in other words, I am not terribly familiar with the facts of the case, so I will not speak to it):
1) Yes, there are people who make jokes like that. I grew up in a, let's say, low-rent town, and there were many young people who just were not good or kind or decent. I played on a softball team in jr. high. One day, a funeral procession passed the field where we were practicing, and the other girls on the team started laughing and screaming "You suck! I'm glad your friend's dead! You all should die, too! I hope you're all miserable!" I was shocked -- they had no idea who was being buried, they just thought it was acceptable to hurl abuse at a funeral procession. And these were girls.
2) Scumbags like the girls I just described still have rights. So it's not okay to assume that just because they are trash, they probably are guilty of all sorts of other things. I'll admit it, if I had a daughter, the WM3 do not look like the sort of guys I would want her bringing home; they still deserve a fair trial.
3) From what I have heard, Johnny Depp is a devoted dad. We're not supposed to talk about Ed's family, but I get the same impression from him. No parent who cares at all about their children would be able to look at a case like this and advocate for the WM3 unless they had taken a really hard look at the facts and were absolutely convinced that the justice system had failed. We already have a number of posts from parents about what they would do were their children attacked -- and I would be right there with them. Maybe Ed is being hoodwinked -- I certainly don't know. I believe he is convinced that something is grossly wrong with this case.
4) Nothing will bring back those little boys. A new trial won't do it, the death penalty won't do it. Overturning the convictions might tear the scab off of the parents' emotional wounds, but those wounds never will heal, regardless of what happens next. There is nothing Ed can say to those parents that will help them.
good post.
On another note, I've been thinking about how much time has passed in this case and how it becomes more and more difficult to identify the real killer(s) as everyday goes by.
In addition, I have been thinking about what it must have been like to be one of those jurors. Am i correct that the entire jury had to universally agree. How many were there? I couldnt live with myself knowing I sent Echols to the electric chair. I wonder if any of them have had a change of heart.
Speaking of change of heart, Although john Mark Byers (was that his name?), comes across a little whacky and like an attention whore, he has changed his tune drastically. Good for him to question the outcome finally.
i guess you don't know how the "pigs" operate, either. police arrest. judges/juries convict.
Or in this case:
-Police violate a kid's rights (You can't interrogate a minor without the parents consent)
-Judge allows the confession to be entered into evidence even though it shouldn't have.
-Jurors convict him with no other evidence than the confession that should have been thrown out.
And what about the other mistakes by the "pigs"? What about the female officer who didn't care to go inside the Bojangles to investigate the man with the blood on him? What about the detective who did go the Bojangles the next day to get a DNA sample and then LOST IT. What type of police officer loses a key piece of evidence in a murder case??
But I'm just as critical of the WM3 as I am the police. Going back to Jessie's confession....yes...it may have been forced out of him by police. But it's not like he just broke down and said "Alright! Yes! We did it!" Nope, he slowly described in GREAT DETAIL a gruesome murder scene. Then ya got Echols on the witness stand......don't even get me started. How his lawyer allowed that I'll never know. Did his testimony incriminate him to the point where it was a certainty that he was guilty? Not even close. Did his testimony incriminate him to the point where a juror might want to put this creepy weirdo (who doesn't even seem to be taking the trial seriously) behind bars? Apparently yes.
Comments
LK = Larry King
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
If the others did what Misskelley said they did: How the hell was ther NO DNA? I'm sure as hell no expert, but that has to be IMPOSSIBLE?
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
i guess you don't know how the "pigs" operate, either. police arrest. judges/juries convict. the police designate a charge, and it's up to the judge to decide whether or not that person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. police can't put someone on death row.
but, yeah, it's so original and rebellious to hate on pigs.
detailed confession is an understatement. Those poor 8yr old boys. Screwing, anal rape, forced blow jobs, unthinkable cutting. If this is what he was coerced into saying, how evil the people behind it must be. All I can think is those poor 8 yr old boys. what they must have gone through! if evidence had shown all this rape...those poor boys! If one of them had been my son I think I would kill the people involved, but first have the crime done to them. Those poor little boys.
I don't think I will ever let my son out of my sight again.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Police can (and unfortunately sometimes do) want to make their own lives easier by coercing someone, like an easy scapegoat who is already viewed as an outcast, to make a confession.
yes, absolutely. i 100% agree with yours, and the guy above yours, statement. in this particular case, the police wanted to provide the public with a bad guy. not solving the murders of three children would be a black eye on the department. if three grown men were murdered, it would be a totally different story.
i just mean that the police aren't the ones who make the convictions and choose the sentencing.
I understand the police's whole possible need to bring closure to the crime, but to coerce a half-retarded boy into fabricating such details--I really don't know. I know I need to learn more about the case.
"if three grown men were murdered, it would be a totally different story"...that's a real shame. that 3 8 yr old boys raped and brutally murdered aren't given a full investigation. that 3 8yr old boys aren't alive to voice what really happened. what a shame that it couldn't get worked out. that those 3 8yr old boys are just numbers to the Arkansas judicial system.
no, i meant that if three grown men were murdered, those teens probably would not have been convicted because there wouldn't have been as much of an outcry from the public. it would have been a different story for the west memphis 3
but yeah, what you're saying makes sense, too. in the end, those three children did not receive a full investigation.
i quote a certain mayor
"You yell barracuda, everybody's just 'huh? what?'... You yell shark, we got a panic on our hands on the fourth of July"
As much as I understand the doubts in this case... who the fuck says this kind of stuff AFTER THEY ARE CONVICTED? At this point there's no reason to "joke around" anymore. Listening to Ed was interesting, and I have my doubts, but this segment in particular of Damien saying that... Well, it makes me wonder... though another trial couldn't be bad for anyone - even though the victims families want closure - I can't help but think if it was my son or brother as painful as it may be I'd rather open the can of worms again to be sure we got the right guys than take the chance the real sick bastard is still out there.
I'm not saying I would, but I know people that would joke about that kind of thing. I don't know if the news of Madeleine McCann (young British girl snatched while she was sleeping on holiday in Portugal a couple of years ago, still hasn't been found) reached your country - but people make jokes about that all the time. In fact if you type her name into google, 'Madeleine McCann jokes' is the second suggested search term that comes up.
This is true, but if you were the one convicted Id agree its a little odd to be making the jokes yourself, especially when the intended humour is a little too contrived for an apparant "retard"
but then again i definitely fall into the category of people who dont know enough about this case to really have a view on it......But i also wouldnt want to support the guy just because Eddie does.....clearly Eddie knows far far more, and I have massive respect for him doing what he is doing here, but i understand its important to think about this for ourselves and come to our own conclusions....
I was sympathetic with you until you said that... Those are some pretty horrendous double standards you've got there.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
I hear you, and you are right, but do try to understand the raw emotion this crime evokes in every person who hears it, and then multiply that off the chart when imagining if it was your child. Its hard to say you would remain so level headed in that situation. In fact Im not sure anyone would be able to think straight for a long long time, if at all ever again.
To put it simple if that had happened to my child, I would never ever be able to come to terms with it. I dare say i would border the mindset of a mental patient, so that said what the person said above is probably not far wrong in terms of how most people would internally deal with that level of grief within.
Its not right, of course not, but in that scenario i dont think that person would be alone in thinking that.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Does anyone ever have the right to kill another? in my eyes this is a definite no, whether legally approved or not. Does revenge ever really heal the wound? i would think not too. But I know if anyone ever messed with my family, my ideals would waver....but thats natural, and very subjective.
But objectively we are on the same page.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
i am not speaking of donations or paying bills..........offer up a reward, a significant reward.
someone will sing......if 3 million is not enough, 4 million, 5 million........keep going until someone sings.
what will happen........they will discover that the killer(s), is currently in the correct place.
Someone will sing for money? you really think someone is out there hiding the truth over these brutal murders - they would hide a person for all these years and then drop them for cash?
You really think eddie can afford to drop 5mill like that?
or are you saying that someone will sing to compound the guilt of those in prison?
confused
NO WAY
'Cause I'll stop trying to make a difference
I'm not trying to make a difference
I'll stop trying to make a difference
No way (2X)
Most recent: 2018 Stadium shows: Seattle 2, Missoula, Fenway 1 and 2; 2022: Oakland 1 and 2
As to the 'confession' of Jessie Miskelley, if you watch Paradise Lost & Paradise Lost 2 and read the information available online, you will learn that it was not a confession but rather a coerced statement. Misskelley, at the time, was said to have a low IQ of 72. This is significant but not to say people of such a nature should not be trusted or to discredit his intelligence in any way. It is significant because it makes what was submitted by the police inadmissible in a court of law. And thus, it shd not have been considered by the jury in making their decision to convict him. In my opinion the second and third statements (not confessions) are just as implausible because of this and because they can be construed to be like the follow-ups of a child who has been caught on a lie - his intentions could have been to to try and mend the situation (in is own humble way). He apparently ignored legal advice to refrain from comment during the making of one of these statements. He did not recant his statement because of his IQ, he recanted it, as he says in the documentaries, because he had been led to tell the police what they wanted to hear and then probably regretted having played into their hands. If you watch the documentaries you will see Misskelley is not a blithering idiot the label of having a low IQ suggests. He's quite quick-witted and can carry out a normal conversation with no problems. But there is a reason why proper legal procedure calls for certain measure to be out in place when a person of this nature is to be interrogated by the police. Since he was questioned for many hours as a regular person wd have been (having the mental capacity of someone far younger, it wd have been proper to have legal counsel present and have explicit permission for the interrogation from a parent/guardian), but all this was absent and he was reportedly interrogated for approx 12 hrs. Out of this, only 2 separate parts of the interview were recorded totalling abt 45min. Fishy? I think so. Experts on evidence have proposed that the police may have interrogated Misskelley in such a way that he said all that they needed just to get out from under all the pressure - something we all have in us. Read this and form your own opinion as to how believable you think his statements are and whether 3 ppl shd have been convicted of murder based partly on it: http://freewm3.blogspot.com/2006/08/con ... de-by.html
As to the 'celebrities' contacting the families of the victims: besides the incidents of statements such as the one from Eddie to Mrs. Moore (posted on LKL blog) and comments made during the recent rally and those held in the past, I have not heard of this happening. Part of me thinks it's rather biased but I also agree with others on this thread who said that it would be pointless. As for raising money for and organising concerts in aid of the 3 families I really don't see the point of that either. Why do victims of murders need money raised for them? It will certainly not replace their loss. They are not in need of money because their children were murdered. They need the truth. It has become the norm for public figures to take up causes they believe in and bring it to their fans and the general public. I think it's advantageous as it ignites public debate and shines a spotlight on things going on in society that wd otherwise be overlooked.
As for Johnny's accent: A lit bit of 'googling' will tell you that Pirates of the Caribbean 4 is currently being filmed. And a little more 'googling' will tell you that Johnny Depp is purported to be a passionate actor who is fully absorbed by his character during filming. Captain Jack Sparrow was probably creeping out a little when Johnny was trying to read
Finally: I don't know the WM3 personally so I cannot say if their saints or otherwise, but over the years and behind all the smoke and mirrors that can be present during legal trials, during interviews and messages, they can be seen as being nothing but normal human beings. None of us are in a position to judge them for what kind of teenagers they were before or at the time of the murders. Or imply that because they were a certain way or did certain things they are without a doubt guilty for these murders.
And all this evidence has not just materialised all at once suddenly after 17yrs ... I think it has been discovered over time - partly due to the initial lack of resources, competence and level of expertise available to the defence and also due to the reality that legal proceedings take time. For example, because under the initial investigations none of the families of the victims were questioned as extensively as one might expect in such a murder case, Terry Hobbs' story was never known until he decided to sue Natalie Pasdar (Natalie Maines) and was deposed. If I'm not mistaken, that happened just last year.
Having more questions than answers is a good thing .... they'll help you take an informed stand on things :geek:
this reminds me of that case where the employees of a daycare were falsely accused of molesting kids, and it turned out that the young kids were lying.
Unfortunately, I can't watch Paradise Lost for another few days, when I have more time.
I have found out so much just by coming here though. thanks to all I've gotten info from. I'll try not to take up too much space with my crazy posts. I'll probably be back on here next week sometime. Everyone have a great weekend.
You really think eddie can afford to drop 5mill like that?
or are you saying that someone will sing to compound the guilt of those in prison?
confused[/quote]
1. either the thing that killed these boys is locked up or someone is hiding valuable information about the thing. yes, i believe once the amount of monies is significant enough to outweigh the consequences of turning over the killer(s), they will do it. regardless of how much time has passed.
2. i have no idea of what he can afford........what i estimate is, he has the resources to approach this justice or injustice from many angles.
2. i have no idea of what he can afford........what i estimate is, he has the resources to approach this justice or injustice from many angles.[/quote]
i doubt this very much, the crime itself would be enough to bring out evidence if there was any. Well in my mind it would, perhaps the world isnt as rosy as I like to think it is. maybe im naive.
If i ever was privy to such information, id hand it over in a heartbeat, not for a few million, but to ensure the scumbag can never do it again..
as for Vedder - why should he load this with huge amounts of cash? he isnt the justice dept, he isnt responsbile for offering rewards, why on earth should he do this? He has a family too....he has to think about their financial stability....sure hes a rock star - hes probably very rich, but his two children have a full future ahead of them that Im sure he would like to ensure he can support fully, and also I hear Eddie is regularly supporting various charities personally and as part of PJ.
He has already thrown his voice behind the cause, and a voice is often more powerful to raise awareness than money will ever be, he has put his time into it and already some element of his own money........To offer up a personal reward to right an injustice he feels is present is wholly unreasonable to expect.....
And still I hope Ed has made the right call on all this........but will we ever know?
1) Yes, there are people who make jokes like that. I grew up in a, let's say, low-rent town, and there were many young people who just were not good or kind or decent. I played on a softball team in jr. high. One day, a funeral procession passed the field where we were practicing, and the other girls on the team started laughing and screaming "You suck! I'm glad your friend's dead! You all should die, too! I hope you're all miserable!" I was shocked -- they had no idea who was being buried, they just thought it was acceptable to hurl abuse at a funeral procession. And these were girls.
2) Scumbags like the girls I just described still have rights. So it's not okay to assume that just because they are trash, they probably are guilty of all sorts of other things. I'll admit it, if I had a daughter, the WM3 do not look like the sort of guys I would want her bringing home; they still deserve a fair trial.
3) From what I have heard, Johnny Depp is a devoted dad. We're not supposed to talk about Ed's family, but I get the same impression from him. No parent who cares at all about their children would be able to look at a case like this and advocate for the WM3 unless they had taken a really hard look at the facts and were absolutely convinced that the justice system had failed. We already have a number of posts from parents about what they would do were their children attacked -- and I would be right there with them. Maybe Ed is being hoodwinked -- I certainly don't know. I believe he is convinced that something is grossly wrong with this case.
4) Nothing will bring back those little boys. A new trial won't do it, the death penalty won't do it. Overturning the convictions might tear the scab off of the parents' emotional wounds, but those wounds never will heal, regardless of what happens next. There is nothing Ed can say to those parents that will help them.
good post.
On another note, I've been thinking about how much time has passed in this case and how it becomes more and more difficult to identify the real killer(s) as everyday goes by.
In addition, I have been thinking about what it must have been like to be one of those jurors. Am i correct that the entire jury had to universally agree. How many were there? I couldnt live with myself knowing I sent Echols to the electric chair. I wonder if any of them have had a change of heart.
Speaking of change of heart, Although john Mark Byers (was that his name?), comes across a little whacky and like an attention whore, he has changed his tune drastically. Good for him to question the outcome finally.
Or in this case:
-Police violate a kid's rights (You can't interrogate a minor without the parents consent)
-Judge allows the confession to be entered into evidence even though it shouldn't have.
-Jurors convict him with no other evidence than the confession that should have been thrown out.
And what about the other mistakes by the "pigs"? What about the female officer who didn't care to go inside the Bojangles to investigate the man with the blood on him? What about the detective who did go the Bojangles the next day to get a DNA sample and then LOST IT. What type of police officer loses a key piece of evidence in a murder case??
But I'm just as critical of the WM3 as I am the police. Going back to Jessie's confession....yes...it may have been forced out of him by police. But it's not like he just broke down and said "Alright! Yes! We did it!" Nope, he slowly described in GREAT DETAIL a gruesome murder scene. Then ya got Echols on the witness stand......don't even get me started. How his lawyer allowed that I'll never know. Did his testimony incriminate him to the point where it was a certainty that he was guilty? Not even close. Did his testimony incriminate him to the point where a juror might want to put this creepy weirdo (who doesn't even seem to be taking the trial seriously) behind bars? Apparently yes.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com