I think I'd respect baseball more if they would overrule the call. The kid threw a perfect game and deserves to have it on his resume. There's only been 20 perfect games ever thrown. They are more rare than being struck by lightning.
Replay shows the runner was clearly out. I don't think the hitter would mind if it was reversed. He looked sick when he realized he was called safe after that weak shit he hit.
Why is it so hard for people to do the right thing anymore? Oh, and Pete Rose has suffered enough. He needs to be in the Hall of Fame too.
+1 on both points. How the hell after the steroid era Rose does not get at least the opportunity to be voted on is beyond me...
To so blatantly deprive this kid of the defining moment of his career, of what so many have strived for, worked for their entire lives and never even come close to achieving is truly beyond comprehension.
I couldn't stop watching the replay. Just couldn't believe it.
The precedent that would be set in reviewing and OBVIOUSLY reversing this call will never happen. It would indicated that the umpires are not as infallible as they are portrayed, and MLB obviously can't accept the fact that these umps are human and occasionally make mistakes.
And then they wonder why attendance is down. What a fucking farce.
“It happened to the best umpire we have in our game. The best. And a perfect gentleman. Obviously, it was a mistake. It was a perfect game. It’s a shame for both of them, for the pitcher and for the umpire. But I’m telling you he is the best baseball has, and a great guy. It’s just a shame.”
I feel for Joyce a little more than I did yesterday but the fact remains, you gotta get that call right. No excuses.
Now it's on Selig. He should make this right, but won't. Let's just hope it leads to replay.
This is the type of shit that happens when this is your commish...
Rmember the dopey buzzard on the old cartoons? How about the ostrich that always stuck his head in the sand? Selig epitomized. Actually, every time bud has a microphone in his face the Looney Tunes music should be played as he approaches the podium and Porky's "That's all folks" should take him off the stage. Dude is a joke. why the hell wouldn't MLB have any comment on it? Bud is a puss.
Everybody handled the situation as best as possible from what I've heard....Gallaraga, Leyland and you've got to give major credit to Joyce for stepping up and admitting it, but even more so for going to the pitcher and apologizing. I truly feel bad for the guy, but the heckling he will get this afternoon behind the plate will be justified just the same. Like Leyland said though managers, players, writers...everybody makes mistakes. This a screw up of epic fuckin' proportions though.
Of course there should be replay in cases such as this...the whole tradition thing with umps basically being God is so idiotic it is beyond description to me. Of course, replay would mean there would never be another double play turned from second to first because no middle infielder has touched the bag when turning one in years....well, very few anyway...but that's another story.
bottom line...the kid got his perfect game just like he said....he knows he did and everybody else knows he did. Damn shame the gutless wonder who is Selig won't do anything to give him credit where it is due.
All I have to do is revel in the everyday....then do it again tomorrow
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
Of course there should be replay in cases such as this...the whole tradition thing with umps basically being God is so idiotic it is beyond description to me. Of course, replay would mean there would never be another double play turned from second to first because no middle infielder has touched the bag when turning one in years....well, very few anyway...but that's another story.
While I am 100% in favor of review, it does bring in some interesting questions in baseball...
say there was a reversed play at first... the guy was called out, but review showed him safe. no biggie right?
but say there was a guy on 3rd coming home during that play... the call at first was initially the 3rd out, so the play stopped. When overturned and ruled safe, what happens to the guy running home? Do you put him back on third even though he would have probably scored? Do you let the run count even though he could have been thrown out by the first basemen if the play continued?
I would say an objective rule is needed like putting the runner back to the last base he was, but is that really fair either? Your guy is safe at first, but you lose a run that would have scored if the ump didn't screw up?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
brutal ... watching the replays is like watching a train wreck ... especially after the catch CF made for the first out in the 9th ...
exactly.
How did Joyce screw up that call moments after that catch?
Come on. How would have really cared if the runner was safe on a play that close.
I really think this will lead to instant replay. It is needed.
Joyce should seriously retire. This will have a lasting effect on his confidence.
If it were the 2nd, 4th, or even 6th inning no big deal on a blown call. But the last out? My gosh that ump is stupid.
well ... i mean at this stage ... galaragga and the ump have shown some considerable class in the former accepting the ump's apology and moving on and the ump for taking it personally ... what can you do ...
the big issue here is this code that umps can't change their calls once it was made ...
all i know is if it was me ... i would have called the guy out even if he was remotely close ...
I'm probably in the minority, but I am opposed to replay in baseball (and all sports). half the time they still get the calls wrong in the nhl and nfl. and I love seeing the managers go out to argue calls and make fools of themselves...replay would eliminate that. bad calls are part of the game.
I read there is already a firejimjoyce.com and all, but no way should the guy lose his job over it. No way.
Now, if Bud the Gutless Wonder doesn't overturn the call and make it right....he should be tarred and feathered.
DON'T BE A PUSS BUD!!!
All I have to do is revel in the everyday....then do it again tomorrow
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
The call will be over-turned.....
The kid will get his perfect game.....
The kid and the ump will embrace on the field.....
The kid and the ump will appear on Oprah....
The kid and the ump will appear on Letterman.....
The kid and the ump will start a charity......
The ump will get a job endorsing "lenscrafters"........
The kid will appear on a Wheaties Box......
It is all going to work out..........
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
they should not overturn the call and give him a perfect game. Umps and their calls are part of the game - if you don't have a replay rule you can't change a call a day or two afterwards. sorry it sucks for Galarraga no doubt but changing the call now would be wrong in my opinion. it would be a tainted perfect game. a perfect game means perfection throughout the game including the umps. i know i am probably in the minority here but i just don't think you should mess with results after the fact.
they should not overturn the call and give him a perfect game. Umps and their calls are part of the game - if you don't have a replay rule you can't change a call a day or two afterwards. sorry it sucks for Galarraga no doubt but changing the call now would be wrong in my opinion. it would be a tainted perfect game. a perfect game means perfection throughout the game including the umps. i know i am probably in the minority here but i just don't think you should mess with results after the fact.
Pinetar game was overturned. It's whats right, it won't effect the outcome just give the kid credit for what everyone watching knows he did.
The call will be over-turned.....
The kid will get his perfect game.....
The kid and the ump will embrace on the field.....
The kid and the ump will appear on Oprah....
The kid and the ump will appear on Letterman.....
The kid and the ump will start a charity......
The ump will get a job endorsing "lenscrafters"........
The kid will appear on a Wheaties Box......
It is all going to work out..........
they already said he is brining out the lineup card to homeplate today.
they should not overturn the call and give him a perfect game. Umps and their calls are part of the game - if you don't have a replay rule you can't change a call a day or two afterwards. sorry it sucks for Galarraga no doubt but changing the call now would be wrong in my opinion. it would be a tainted perfect game. a perfect game means perfection throughout the game including the umps. i know i am probably in the minority here but i just don't think you should mess with results after the fact.
Pinetar game was overturned. It's whats right, it won't effect the outcome just give the kid credit for what everyone watching knows he did.
should we go back and redo the Don Denkinger bad call in Royals-Cards series?
how about Leon Stickle fn the Flyers in the 1980 Stanley Cup?
sorry but you should not be changing calls after games are over. if you put your faith in the umps to call the game, right or wrong, you have to go with that call once it is all said and done.
If there wasn't 2 outs in the 9th would there be an outcry to overturn the call? what if this happened in the 7th and he went the rest of the way perfect - do you overturn it then?
Overturning this call sets a bad precedent in my opinion and shouldn't be done.
Reversing the call would show baseball has common sense
By Thomas Boswell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 3, 2010;
Bud Selig should use his "best interests of the game" power, which has no bounds, to reverse Jim Joyce's incorrect "safe" call so that Armando Galarraga gets the perfect game that he earned.
What's the point of having the authority of a baseball deity if the commissioner doesn't use it now? Selig may decide not to do it because he fears the precedent will be worse than the injustice; but after watching commissioners negate trades, ban players and declare a tie in an All-Star game, no one in the game doubts he can do it.
With one decision, Selig can right a spectacular wrong and take a gorilla of guilt off the shoulders of a good veteran umpire. And he can show that baseball has common sense.
Some will say, "If you reverse this call, why not others? Don't open this can of worms."
The correct answer, from a commissioner with a profound sense of the history of the game, should be, "If there's ever another play like this one, then reverse that, too. But how many plays -- really -- have ever been 'like this one.'"
I'm thinking. I'm sure I'll come up with something. But the fact that none leap to mind show how small this worm can is.
No, you can't reverse Don Denkinger's blown call in the sixth game of the 1985 World Series because that game continued and the team that was leading ended up losing. No commissioner can be jumping in and out of the picture deciding who wins and loses.
But Galarraga got his 28th consecutive out on the next batter. The score didn't change. Reversing the call would change nothing except for taking a single away from the Indians Jason Donald.
One reason that few first-reactors in the media don't want to support a reversal of the call is because it's so much easier -- you don't have to strain your brain -- to say, "Let it stand. We all know he pitched a perfect game. Now we can really get worked up about more instant replay and have another story to milk."
It's a lot tougher and more ambiguous to say, "Just do what is so obviously right. If it puts one more burden on future commissioners -- to make a Selig Reversal, probably once every decade (or twice in a week, if the Fates decree it) -- then so be it."
Remember, the precedent Selig would set would be strictly focused on an individual player's personal record-setting accomplishment, not on deciding who won a game. So, it wouldn't be a precedent for changing any in-game calls in the postseason.
Selig, who is currently against a significant widening of instant replay beyond its current limited use on boundary calls, should also consider another factor. He fears, quite rightly, that his already sluggish game will be stampeded into a lugubrious replay-clogged future by those who don't grasp the game's aesthetic and history, or love the sport as deeply, as commissioners do.
If Bud reverses the call, he can slow down the replay mob, not stop it. Baseball needs to decide how much replay is best; the right answer may be "a lot more." But if Joyce's call stands, it may be the thin end of the wedge that leads to too much replay too soon.
I'll plead guilty to any charge of preferring to err on the side of too much compassion for Joyce. You can't undo the pain he's already felt.
"I just missed the damn call . . . This isn't a call. This is a history call. And I kicked the [bleep] out of it," said Joyce, whose postgame stand-up accountability should be a model for anybody. "I take pride in this job, and I took a perfect game away from that kid over there who worked his ass off all night."
We can wait until hell freezes over to hear anything like that from the top dogs at British Petroleum or Bear Stearns.
Joyce also sought out Galarraga to apologize.
"I give a lot of credit to that guy . . . You don't see an umpire, after the game, say, 'I'm sorry.' Nobody's perfect," said Galarraga, who was.
Seldom has such a sad incident shown so many people in such a flattering light.
"If I had been Galarraga, I would have been the first one standing there [screaming]. I would have said something immediately," said Joyce. "He didn't say a word, not one word."
Selig may decide against reversing the call. If he goes that route, he'll miss an opportunity, but it won't be a sin. He has to think through the issue of what precedent he'll set. I'd say the only precedent would be this: If an umpire ever again blows a call on the last out of a perfect game -- and Joyce said "I missed it from here to the wall" -- then the commissioner gets to reverse it.
If it's any consolation, and it should be quite a bit, Galarraga will now vie with Harvey Haddix for the most famous perfect game every pitched in the regular season, ranking behind only Don Larsen in the World Series. And neither Haddix nor Galarraga (as of now) got credit for one of the sport's 20 perfect games!
Haddix retired 36 consecutive batters before losing in the 13th innings. The Kitten had a nice 136-113 career, but would be nearly forgotten now except for the perfect game that, according to baseball's definition, he didn't get. Instead, his deed will have a prominent place in lore as long as the game's played.
Within the last 30 days, in a statistical improbability that must approximate winning the lottery three times in a month, a great pitcher (Roy Halladay) and a great heart-warming story (Dallas Braden) have pitched perfect games.
No matter what happens next, Galarraga's game will trump them both in legend, as well as every other perfect game of the last 50 years.
If Joyce had made the correct call, Galarraga would've been in an elite group with a wonderful feat. But because Joyce blew it, Galarraga still retains the same satisfaction in his deed. After all, the whole sport world gives him full credit, plus a 28th out, too.
However, by the alchemy of fame, bad luck has already turned to good fortune for the obscure 28-year-old pitcher with the 21-18 career record. Galarraga's Imperfecto has already rocketed him into a permanent place of fame in the game's annals, a hair above Haddix, and above any perfect game pitcher except Larsen.
It's not really Galarraga who so much needs Selig to intercede. It's Joyce, the good man with awful luck. His call can't be erased, but a lifetime of nagging can be ameliorated.
For him, cross my fingers, I hope Selig will go out on a limb and do the right thing -- just because it's right.
should we go back and redo the Don Denkinger bad call in Royals-Cards series?
how about Leon Stickle fn the Flyers in the 1980 Stanley Cup?
sorry but you should not be changing calls after games are over. if you put your faith in the umps to call the game, right or wrong, you have to go with that call once it is all said and done.
If there wasn't 2 outs in the 9th would there be an outcry to overturn the call? what if this happened in the 7th and he went the rest of the way perfect - do you overturn it then?
Overturning this call sets a bad precedent in my opinion and shouldn't be done.
No
I don't know what this play is but, no.
I just think this is a different circumstance. The game would be over. All it would do is take a hit away from one kid and an AB away from another. Wouldn't change the outcome of the game. No, if it were earlier in the game there would not be the outcry but the fact is he pictched a perfect game and the game was over.
I agree that it sets a bad precedent but if I were bud selig I would say something like, "this is a one time thing and will not be considered again but due to the circumstances we would like to give Galarraga his place in baseball history. He pictched a perfect game and we would like it to go down that way. At the end of the year we will review our instant replay policy"
Edit: It's not going to happen but I would like to see it.
Comments
I couldn't stop watching the replay. Just couldn't believe it.
The precedent that would be set in reviewing and OBVIOUSLY reversing this call will never happen. It would indicated that the umpires are not as infallible as they are portrayed, and MLB obviously can't accept the fact that these umps are human and occasionally make mistakes.
And then they wonder why attendance is down. What a fucking farce.
exactly.
How did Joyce screw up that call moments after that catch?
Come on. How would have really cared if the runner was safe on a play that close.
I really think this will lead to instant replay. It is needed.
Joyce should seriously retire. This will have a lasting effect on his confidence.
If it were the 2nd, 4th, or even 6th inning no big deal on a blown call. But the last out? My gosh that ump is stupid.
“It happened to the best umpire we have in our game. The best. And a perfect gentleman. Obviously, it was a mistake. It was a perfect game. It’s a shame for both of them, for the pitcher and for the umpire. But I’m telling you he is the best baseball has, and a great guy. It’s just a shame.”
I feel for Joyce a little more than I did yesterday but the fact remains, you gotta get that call right. No excuses.
Now it's on Selig. He should make this right, but won't. Let's just hope it leads to replay.
Everybody handled the situation as best as possible from what I've heard....Gallaraga, Leyland and you've got to give major credit to Joyce for stepping up and admitting it, but even more so for going to the pitcher and apologizing. I truly feel bad for the guy, but the heckling he will get this afternoon behind the plate will be justified just the same. Like Leyland said though managers, players, writers...everybody makes mistakes. This a screw up of epic fuckin' proportions though.
Of course there should be replay in cases such as this...the whole tradition thing with umps basically being God is so idiotic it is beyond description to me. Of course, replay would mean there would never be another double play turned from second to first because no middle infielder has touched the bag when turning one in years....well, very few anyway...but that's another story.
bottom line...the kid got his perfect game just like he said....he knows he did and everybody else knows he did. Damn shame the gutless wonder who is Selig won't do anything to give him credit where it is due.
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
While I am 100% in favor of review, it does bring in some interesting questions in baseball...
say there was a reversed play at first... the guy was called out, but review showed him safe. no biggie right?
but say there was a guy on 3rd coming home during that play... the call at first was initially the 3rd out, so the play stopped. When overturned and ruled safe, what happens to the guy running home? Do you put him back on third even though he would have probably scored? Do you let the run count even though he could have been thrown out by the first basemen if the play continued?
I would say an objective rule is needed like putting the runner back to the last base he was, but is that really fair either? Your guy is safe at first, but you lose a run that would have scored if the ump didn't screw up?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
well ... i mean at this stage ... galaragga and the ump have shown some considerable class in the former accepting the ump's apology and moving on and the ump for taking it personally ... what can you do ...
the big issue here is this code that umps can't change their calls once it was made ...
all i know is if it was me ... i would have called the guy out even if he was remotely close ...
http://joeposnanski.si.com/2010/06/02/t ... jim-joyce/
I'm probably in the minority, but I am opposed to replay in baseball (and all sports). half the time they still get the calls wrong in the nhl and nfl. and I love seeing the managers go out to argue calls and make fools of themselves...replay would eliminate that. bad calls are part of the game.
I do feel bad for galarraga though...damn shame
Nice Article!
Now, if Bud the Gutless Wonder doesn't overturn the call and make it right....he should be tarred and feathered.
DON'T BE A PUSS BUD!!!
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
The kid will get his perfect game.....
The kid and the ump will embrace on the field.....
The kid and the ump will appear on Oprah....
The kid and the ump will appear on Letterman.....
The kid and the ump will start a charity......
The ump will get a job endorsing "lenscrafters"........
The kid will appear on a Wheaties Box......
It is all going to work out..........
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Pinetar game was overturned. It's whats right, it won't effect the outcome just give the kid credit for what everyone watching knows he did.
they already said he is brining out the lineup card to homeplate today.
should we go back and redo the Don Denkinger bad call in Royals-Cards series?
how about Leon Stickle fn the Flyers in the 1980 Stanley Cup?
sorry but you should not be changing calls after games are over. if you put your faith in the umps to call the game, right or wrong, you have to go with that call once it is all said and done.
If there wasn't 2 outs in the 9th would there be an outcry to overturn the call? what if this happened in the 7th and he went the rest of the way perfect - do you overturn it then?
Overturning this call sets a bad precedent in my opinion and shouldn't be done.
By Thomas Boswell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 3, 2010;
Bud Selig should use his "best interests of the game" power, which has no bounds, to reverse Jim Joyce's incorrect "safe" call so that Armando Galarraga gets the perfect game that he earned.
What's the point of having the authority of a baseball deity if the commissioner doesn't use it now? Selig may decide not to do it because he fears the precedent will be worse than the injustice; but after watching commissioners negate trades, ban players and declare a tie in an All-Star game, no one in the game doubts he can do it.
With one decision, Selig can right a spectacular wrong and take a gorilla of guilt off the shoulders of a good veteran umpire. And he can show that baseball has common sense.
Some will say, "If you reverse this call, why not others? Don't open this can of worms."
The correct answer, from a commissioner with a profound sense of the history of the game, should be, "If there's ever another play like this one, then reverse that, too. But how many plays -- really -- have ever been 'like this one.'"
I'm thinking. I'm sure I'll come up with something. But the fact that none leap to mind show how small this worm can is.
No, you can't reverse Don Denkinger's blown call in the sixth game of the 1985 World Series because that game continued and the team that was leading ended up losing. No commissioner can be jumping in and out of the picture deciding who wins and loses.
But Galarraga got his 28th consecutive out on the next batter. The score didn't change. Reversing the call would change nothing except for taking a single away from the Indians Jason Donald.
One reason that few first-reactors in the media don't want to support a reversal of the call is because it's so much easier -- you don't have to strain your brain -- to say, "Let it stand. We all know he pitched a perfect game. Now we can really get worked up about more instant replay and have another story to milk."
It's a lot tougher and more ambiguous to say, "Just do what is so obviously right. If it puts one more burden on future commissioners -- to make a Selig Reversal, probably once every decade (or twice in a week, if the Fates decree it) -- then so be it."
Remember, the precedent Selig would set would be strictly focused on an individual player's personal record-setting accomplishment, not on deciding who won a game. So, it wouldn't be a precedent for changing any in-game calls in the postseason.
Selig, who is currently against a significant widening of instant replay beyond its current limited use on boundary calls, should also consider another factor. He fears, quite rightly, that his already sluggish game will be stampeded into a lugubrious replay-clogged future by those who don't grasp the game's aesthetic and history, or love the sport as deeply, as commissioners do.
If Bud reverses the call, he can slow down the replay mob, not stop it. Baseball needs to decide how much replay is best; the right answer may be "a lot more." But if Joyce's call stands, it may be the thin end of the wedge that leads to too much replay too soon.
I'll plead guilty to any charge of preferring to err on the side of too much compassion for Joyce. You can't undo the pain he's already felt.
"I just missed the damn call . . . This isn't a call. This is a history call. And I kicked the [bleep] out of it," said Joyce, whose postgame stand-up accountability should be a model for anybody. "I take pride in this job, and I took a perfect game away from that kid over there who worked his ass off all night."
We can wait until hell freezes over to hear anything like that from the top dogs at British Petroleum or Bear Stearns.
Joyce also sought out Galarraga to apologize.
"I give a lot of credit to that guy . . . You don't see an umpire, after the game, say, 'I'm sorry.' Nobody's perfect," said Galarraga, who was.
Seldom has such a sad incident shown so many people in such a flattering light.
"If I had been Galarraga, I would have been the first one standing there [screaming]. I would have said something immediately," said Joyce. "He didn't say a word, not one word."
Selig may decide against reversing the call. If he goes that route, he'll miss an opportunity, but it won't be a sin. He has to think through the issue of what precedent he'll set. I'd say the only precedent would be this: If an umpire ever again blows a call on the last out of a perfect game -- and Joyce said "I missed it from here to the wall" -- then the commissioner gets to reverse it.
If it's any consolation, and it should be quite a bit, Galarraga will now vie with Harvey Haddix for the most famous perfect game every pitched in the regular season, ranking behind only Don Larsen in the World Series. And neither Haddix nor Galarraga (as of now) got credit for one of the sport's 20 perfect games!
Haddix retired 36 consecutive batters before losing in the 13th innings. The Kitten had a nice 136-113 career, but would be nearly forgotten now except for the perfect game that, according to baseball's definition, he didn't get. Instead, his deed will have a prominent place in lore as long as the game's played.
Within the last 30 days, in a statistical improbability that must approximate winning the lottery three times in a month, a great pitcher (Roy Halladay) and a great heart-warming story (Dallas Braden) have pitched perfect games.
No matter what happens next, Galarraga's game will trump them both in legend, as well as every other perfect game of the last 50 years.
If Joyce had made the correct call, Galarraga would've been in an elite group with a wonderful feat. But because Joyce blew it, Galarraga still retains the same satisfaction in his deed. After all, the whole sport world gives him full credit, plus a 28th out, too.
However, by the alchemy of fame, bad luck has already turned to good fortune for the obscure 28-year-old pitcher with the 21-18 career record. Galarraga's Imperfecto has already rocketed him into a permanent place of fame in the game's annals, a hair above Haddix, and above any perfect game pitcher except Larsen.
It's not really Galarraga who so much needs Selig to intercede. It's Joyce, the good man with awful luck. His call can't be erased, but a lifetime of nagging can be ameliorated.
For him, cross my fingers, I hope Selig will go out on a limb and do the right thing -- just because it's right.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 21_pf.html
No
I don't know what this play is but, no.
I just think this is a different circumstance. The game would be over. All it would do is take a hit away from one kid and an AB away from another. Wouldn't change the outcome of the game. No, if it were earlier in the game there would not be the outcry but the fact is he pictched a perfect game and the game was over.
I agree that it sets a bad precedent but if I were bud selig I would say something like, "this is a one time thing and will not be considered again but due to the circumstances we would like to give Galarraga his place in baseball history. He pictched a perfect game and we would like it to go down that way. At the end of the year we will review our instant replay policy"
Edit: It's not going to happen but I would like to see it.
Way classy. Good job all around.
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
switched over as soon as the umps came out and galarraga went back to the dugout
It was outstanding. I do feel for Joyce, a lot more than I did last night