Boycott Anything Involving AZ

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

LET ME SEE IF I GOT THIS RIGHT


IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.

IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.

IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.

IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.

IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.

IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.

IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET

1 - A JOB,
2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
4 - WELFARE,
5 - FOOD STAMPS,
6 - CREDIT CARDS,
7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
8 - FREE EDUCATION,
9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON
11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT


I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD A FIRM GRASP ON THE SITUATION.


Got this emailed to me this am from a friend. She and I have never talked politics, 35 years, my better half of the Buzz twins. It shocks me how this is hitting everyone, one side or the other. Its time something is done.
Its a complicated situation, we would love to have open arms, it's what our country is based on but we are in trouble. We are over taxed and under represented. Some of us think its even too late(me) but something must be done to stop this. We can not (sheer numbers tell us this) sustain illegal immigrants any longer. So Mr. President "What do you say... Calling out"
stop the free hand outs, what is your plan?

...
Explain...
Is the point of the E-Mail one that says we should be more like North Korea, Iran, China, Venezuela, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia?
And as a fact check:
1 - A JOB, No true. You are NOT given a job. An American business man hires you for sub-standard wages so he does not have to pay taxes on you, provide a safe workplace, hold any liability for any injuries or illnesses you contract while on hie time... so he can have more money for himself.
2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE, False. You do not get a drivers license. You can buy a forged drivers license, more than likely, from an American Citizen who uses illegal immigrants to solicit business from othere illegal immigrants.
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, False. See above.
4 - WELFARE, False. Maybe Food Stamps on the black market or you can try your luck with forged documents, but you can't just get Welfare by asking for it. Prove me wrong by trying to get on Welfare yourself.
5 - FOOD STAMPS, See above.
6 - CREDIT CARDS, Who's to blame for that? Shuodln't the institutions handing OUT the credit cards have some responsibility? I mean, they are the ones who will lose in this proposition.
7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, Explanation or Proof need fror this. I'm calling bullshit on this one.
8 - FREE EDUCATION, Again, who's fault is this. I thought you had to register your kids in schools.
9 - FREE HEALTH CARE, I have heard the stories... go in for care... don't pay the bills. Maybe our current Health Care system needs some REFORM???
10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON Who?
11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE And the language of naturalized American Citizens.
12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT - Because this is STILL America and we do not force people to wave our flag.

There are states 11 I believe where illegal immigrants can get a DL. And of course like you say, the black market accounts for much in the states that don't, also for SS cards. A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
Food stamps and all the other related type benefits are available if 2 illegals conceive a child here, which I think we realize many many do. I way to stay.
But I think you get where the author of the email was going with this. Our country is indeed taking very good care of the illegals, if we weren't they wouldn't stay and keep coming. I think everyone can agree on that. I also think everyone can agree that our country can not continue to do this, there must be end somewhere.
As far as our flag, honestly it will be soon, that there will be 2 flags waving, just like there is a second language now in the US, and are we really ready for that?
Is it so much to ask that people who want to be apart of America be American. That they learn our history speak our language and wave our flag legally.

Dirtie_Frank

I've searched but found nothing about a white supremacist group donating 1 million dollars to this bill. What is your source?

polaris_x

pandora wrote:

A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.

i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...

Dirtie_Frank

polaris_x wrote:

pandora wrote:

A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.

i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...

But Canada is so innocent?

aerial

tonifig8 wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

tonifig8 wrote:

When you travel abroad and then return why aren't you allow to reenter the country with simply your drivers license?
Do you not understand that if a police officer feels he needs proof of your citizenship he will need more then your driver licenses. Federal Government describes these as - a Birth certificate, pass port, etc..etc.. not a drivers license.
A conservative talk show that I was listening to on tuesday said that if your in a car with more then 6 brown people in it, then that should be seen as suspicious, and should be reason enough to question these people. That is what the right is promoting. I do not have anything against the Feds deporting people, but I do have a problem with this bill and I think I have laid out plenty of facts to support my position and to support the racism in this bill.

You are right, I am required to show a passport. What is wrong with that? Also, I was able to do it from costa rica a few years back, that is enter the US with just a driver's license.

What you see as racism I see as something different. But we just have to agree to disagree. If there is racism and racial profiling in this law, than it will be struck down by the supreme court of either Arizona or the United States. Simple as that. if it isn't, than people need to shut up about the racism, because at that point a bunch of the brightest legal minds in the country will have reviewed it and weighed it against the constitution(s) and given it the go ahead. Seems simple to me, and at the very least this law povokes the US government into doing something because the status quo isn't working.

you might find this interesting for what it's worth

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... _been.html

Kind of a interesting video if anyone has the whole hearing I would love to see it all.

Everyone is required to show there passport when entering the country - "EVERYONE", is the key.
that's when entering the country, now in the case of AZ i would be required to show that type of proof because now police officers are targeting people who they believe might be illegal immigrants..... Police officers have not received any type of specific training on how to target illegal immigrants... They would have to use there judgment...... The Governor of AZ state that they will begin to receive training.... costing more money, when in the end they still cannot deport anyone!!! They still need to turn them into the Feds....where is your common sense?
The fact that the bill was created by people associated with white supremacists groups means nothing, right? The fact that this bill received 1 million dollars from white supremacist groups means nothing, right??
The fact that 53% of the people who voted for this bill believe this bill will violate civil rights issues means nothing, right???


I'm done with you, like you are done with me... I have laid out the facts...this is a waste of money and was generated by hate, yet it still doesn't solve anything....just divides people.... but if you rather the bill be shut down by the courts then, lets just continue to look beyond the truth..... HATE

The way I see it you should be mad at the illegal immigrants ....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you? The Illegal Immigrants are the ones that ruined it for our American citizens of Hispanic decent....so quit with your hatred for your fellow Americans and put the blame where it belongs.....That would be the ones that broke the law...not the law abiding citizens of America.

polaris_x

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

But Canada is so innocent?

what the cuss does that have anything to do with it? ... feel free to list all of canada's transgressions and i would probably agree with most of them ... i'm not so wrapped up in some nationalistic pride that i can't see right from wrong ...

Dirtie_Frank

polaris_x wrote:

i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

But Canada is so innocent?

polaris_x wrote:

what the cuss does that have anything to do with it? ... feel free to list all of canada's transgressions and i would probably agree with most of them ... i'm not so wrapped up in some nationalistic pride that i can't see right from wrong ...

It was so easy for you to point out that America has transgressions.

polaris_x

mikepegg44 wrote:

didn't read it, I will find out and edit this when I do.
http://www.gregpalast.com/behind-the-ar ... -election/

I think I found what you were reffering too and despite the clear bias he writes with I think it is interesting. I don't think anyone in politics is "clean". And I really don't think this law is in place to keep minorities from voting. I think if any of the "charges" were true they would be investigated by the current administration. I don't understand the idea that Karl Rove is somehow this puppet master.
Quite frankly, I thought the article was written with way too much personal slant. He seems to come from the Michael Moore school of journalism. It clouds the charges in the article in my opinion. Look, there are ways to get your birth certificate. We have a staff dedicated at HCMC to preparing and handing out birth certificates. Ignorance is no excuse in not having one. Being poor isn't an excuse. You can still get your birth certificate.
But I will say, that if republicans are guilty of voter fraud so are democrats. Interesting that he only thinks republicans are guilty of it.
Too much conspiracy not enough proof as far as I am concerned. But it was definitely a good opinion piece.

how about you polaris?

well ... first off - i'm generally non-partisan ... i don't believe much in democrats however, i'm convinced the 2 terms bush was in office were as the result of voter fraud ... having said that - it would not surprise me if democrats did this too although, the issue is (and it ties in with this topic) is that it is much easier to restrict voter registrations with immigrants and the poor - two groups that for the most part vote democrat ...

i don't know much about this palast guy - he could be hiding a lot ... i'm not too sure ... what i do know about this piece of legislation is that it most definitely has racial undertones ... obviously, it won't be spelt out in black and white that some people want to see but it's there and it will play itself out ...

america is not only very deeply divided but it's frustrated with many things and i think it's easy to use illegal aliens as a scapegoat for all the ills when in fact it's the old white guys in suits that have been the problem for a long time ... (republican and democrat) ...

polaris_x

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...

Dirtie_Frank wrote:

But Canada is so innocent?

polaris_x wrote:

what the cuss does that have anything to do with it? ... feel free to list all of canada's transgressions and i would probably agree with most of them ... i'm not so wrapped up in some nationalistic pride that i can't see right from wrong ...

It was so easy for you to point out that America has transgressions.

uhhh ... i still don't see your point ...

Godfather.

polaris_x wrote:

pandora wrote:

A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.

i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...

so that makes it ok ? your tit for tat comment is weak.

Godfather.

dasvidana

mikepegg44 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

mikepegg44: what are your thoughts on the Palast article in the other thread ("AZ")?

didn't read it, I will find out and edit this when I do.
http://www.gregpalast.com/behind-the-ar ... -election/

I think I found what you were reffering too and despite the clear bias he writes with I think it is interesting. I don't think anyone in politics is "clean". And I really don't think this law is in place to keep minorities from voting. I think if any of the "charges" were true they would be investigated by the current administration. I don't understand the idea that Karl Rove is somehow this puppet master.
Quite frankly, I thought the article was written with way too much personal slant. He seems to come from the Michael Moore school of journalism. It clouds the charges in the article in my opinion. Look, there are ways to get your birth certificate. We have a staff dedicated at HCMC to preparing and handing out birth certificates. Ignorance is no excuse in not having one. Being poor isn't an excuse. You can still get your birth certificate.
But I will say, that if republicans are guilty of voter fraud so are democrats. Interesting that he only thinks republicans are guilty of it.
Too much conspiracy not enough proof as far as I am concerned. But it was definitely a good opinion piece.

how about you polaris?

Greg Palast is an American journalist working for the BBC. He has published a book, Best Democracy Money Can Buy, which covers the voter registration stuff that occurred in 2000 and 2004. He has also covered the David Iglesias firing that was part of the US attorney firings a few years back. He is a well researched journalist and doesn't make claims he can't back up. I tend to believe what he writes.

GTFLYGIRL

aerial wrote:

The way I see it you should be mad at the illegal immigrants ....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you? The Illegal Immigrants are the ones that ruined it for our American citizens of Hispanic decent....so quit with your hatred for your fellow Americans and put the blame where it belongs.....That would be the ones that broke the law...not the law abiding citizens of America.

yeah... especially the kids who were brought over by their parents. i work in foster care and i know plenty of them. Those little fuckers. I HATE THEM!

It's their fault I (would have to) make sure I had all sorts of paperwork with me if I were to visit my cousin in Glendale and go to the Splash Park at the AWESOME park in Peoria....

Since the first time I went to Phoenix (back in 1995 when PJ canceled their Phoenix show!!!) I found it to be a bit of a fascist state. I was like 24 and we were leaving a club in Tempe. As we walked out there were Maricopa County Sherrifs with their billy clubs out... and they were following people to their cars. It was the freakiest thing I have ever experienced...

FUCK ARIZONA AND THEIR FASCIST, RACIST BULLSHIT.... Glad my cousin moved back to NEW YORK!

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

There are states 11 I believe where illegal immigrants can get a DL. And of course like you say, the black market accounts for much in the states that don't, also for SS cards. A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
Food stamps and all the other related type benefits are available if 2 illegals conceive a child here, which I think we realize many many do. I way to stay.
But I think you get where the author of the email was going with this. Our country is indeed taking very good care of the illegals, if we weren't they wouldn't stay and keep coming. I think everyone can agree on that. I also think everyone can agree that our country can not continue to do this, there must be end somewhere.
As far as our flag, honestly it will be soon, that there will be 2 flags waving, just like there is a second language now in the US, and are we really ready for that?
Is it so much to ask that people who want to be apart of America be American. That they learn our history speak our language and wave our flag legally.

...
In those 11 states... they still have to apply for the licenses, right? And if they do... they are pegged as undocumented aliens, right? That is NOT 'Giving them a License'.
The author of the E-Mail was making it look like America's answer to Illegal Immigration is in the means and methods of North Korea and Iran. If we were more like North Korea and Iran, we wouldn't have this problem, right? E-Mail Spam used to support an arguement in rational a debate usually backfires because truth is typically not a factor (refer to the Nigerian Prince E-Mail spam). I am not FOR or AGAINST anything you posted... I am just debunking the lies/half-truths and misinformation in your E-Mail example. Arm yourself with Truth or Fact... and no one can argue with you.
...
Now... is immigration reform needed? Yes, I believe it is.
Is the Arizona legislation the way to enact it? No, i believe it does not.
Reform must come at the Federal level and must engage both sides of the border.
...
Also... the thing about the two flags... where did you hear that, FOX News or a Tea Party rally? Because, with all due respect, that is fucking ridiculous.
...
Finally... many of the illegals aren't here to 'Become An American Citizen'. They are here because they can make money to send home. They are here because American business owners hire them. They are just fine, remaining a Mexican, Guatemalan, Salvadorian, Canadian, Irish, English, Austrailian citizen and just want to make money.
Think about those Americans that are working in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, right now. They do not want to become Iraqi or Saudi citizens, right? They just want to make money to send home.
If we had a better work/labor exchange with Mexico... that allows them to come here... and allows employers to hire them for sub-standard wages... would that help?

Cosmo

aerial wrote:

....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you?

...
Wait... THAT'S IT??? That's all the problem is??? The entire Immigration thing is because they are here Illegally, right? Paperwork makes them legal... paperwork solves the problem.

dasvidana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i7XLD9uc7E

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

There are states 11 I believe where illegal immigrants can get a DL. And of course like you say, the black market accounts for much in the states that don't, also for SS cards. A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
Food stamps and all the other related type benefits are available if 2 illegals conceive a child here, which I think we realize many many do. I way to stay.
But I think you get where the author of the email was going with this. Our country is indeed taking very good care of the illegals, if we weren't they wouldn't stay and keep coming. I think everyone can agree on that. I also think everyone can agree that our country can not continue to do this, there must be end somewhere.
As far as our flag, honestly it will be soon, that there will be 2 flags waving, just like there is a second language now in the US, and are we really ready for that?
Is it so much to ask that people who want to be apart of America be American. That they learn our history speak our language and wave our flag legally.

...
In those 11 states... they still have to apply for the licenses, right? And if they do... they are pegged as undocumented aliens, right? That is NOT 'Giving them a License'.
The author of the E-Mail was making it look like America's answer to Illegal Immigration is in the means and methods of North Korea and Iran. If we were more like North Korea and Iran, we wouldn't have this problem, right? E-Mail Spam used to support an arguement in rational a debate usually backfires because truth is typically not a factor (refer to the Nigerian Prince E-Mail spam). I am not FOR or AGAINST anything you posted... I am just debunking the lies/half-truths and misinformation in your E-Mail example. Arm yourself with Truth or Fact... and no one can argue with you.
...
Now... is immigration reform needed? Yes, I believe it is.
Is the Arizona legislation the way to enact it? No, i believe it does not.
Reform must come at the Federal level and must engage both sides of the border.
...
Also... the thing about the two flags... where did you hear that, FOX News or a Tea Party rally? Because, with all due respect, that is fucking ridiculous.
...
Finally... many of the illegals aren't here to 'Become An American Citizen'. They are here because they can make money to send home. They are here because American business owners hire them. They are just fine, remaining a Mexican, Guatemalan, Salvadorian, Canadian, Irish, English, Austrailian citizen and just want to make money.
Think about those Americans that are working in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, right now. They do not want to become Iraqi or Saudi citizens, right? They just want to make money to send home.
If we had a better work/labor exchange with Mexico... that allows them to come here... and allows employers to hire them for sub-standard wages... would that help?

I didn't hear about the flag thing anywhere, its how I feel, I made it up :oops: . You may think it ridiculous maybe but as I said its how I feel and we'll see in 30 years, well I'll be dead and gone so you see.
I didn't get that from the email. That the proper answer to our border problems was to behave like those countries.
I think the author was making the point that our open arms policy and give give give is what is ridiculous.
I mean really they are breaking the law and we allow them to live, work, drive, use our social systems etc. I think the author wants something done on the federal level so americans don't feel they are being taken advantage of.
My son has $100+ a week taken out of his gross pay that does not include the SS or Med just federal tax. And its going up. He wants to know for what.
It would be a start to just have the Feds toughen up some or do something and hopefully it won't be to take away the right of this Governor to do as she sees fit in her own state. That's up to the people of her state, they elected her and if they don't agree with what she does then they will vote so.
But the thing with debate again, is you can't change my mind I can't change yours. It's such a fruitless endeavor. I'm not sure why you guys like it so much. It seems like arguing to me. Life is too short for that.
This email I wanted to share, I think the author had a valid point and of course I knew some wouldn't agree. Actually I knew some wouldn't even try to understand.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

I didn't hear about the flag thing anywhere, its how I feel, I made it up :oops: . You may think it ridiculous maybe but as I said its how I feel and we'll see in 30 years, well I'll be dead and gone so you see.
I didn't get that from the email. That the proper answer to our border problems was to behave like those countries.
I think the author was making the point that our open arms policy and give give give is what is ridiculous.
I mean really they are breaking the law and we allow them to live, work, drive, use our social systems etc. I think the author wants something done on the federal level so americans don't feel they are being taken advantage of.
My son has $100+ a week taken out of his gross pay that does not include the SS or Med just federal tax. And its going up. He wants to know for what.
It would be a start to just have the Feds toughen up some or do something and hopefully it won't be to take away the right of this Governor to do as she sees fit in her own state. That's up to the people of her state, they elected her and if they don't agree with what she does then they will vote so.
But the thing with debate again, is you can't change my mind I can't change yours. It's such a fruitless endeavor. I'm not sure why you guys like it so much. It seems like arguing to me. Life is too short for that.
This email I wanted to share, I think the author had a valid point and of course I knew some wouldn't agree. Actually I knew some wouldn't even try to understand.

...
I'm not arguing with you... I am debunking the falicies of the E-Mail example. and the point of debate is NOT to 'Win' or change anyone's minds... it is to reveal truths and dismiss bogus information. Bring truths and facts to me... that's all I'm looking for.
I don't know what the author's intent was... but, they set the basis of their point by stating that other countries handle their borders differently than we do... and they don't have an Illegal Immigrant problem. The author FAILS to point out that in some of those countries he/she listed, people are trying to cross the border, OUT of those places.
And YES... it may be true that you face Labor Camp by illegally crossing into North Korea. So, what's the point? That North Korea's border policy works? So... then what? Should we adopt that policy as our own because it works? What is the point that's trying to be made? Closed Societies don't have immigration problems like open societies do? That is what I don't understand... what is the point?
America's 'Open Arms' policy is what defines America... or should be what defines America.
...
And tell you son that the $100.00 is being withheld for the the year. When he files his 2010 Tax Return, he will find out how much Income Tax he actually pays.
Of that amount, 60% going towards Social Security, Medical and Defense Spending.*:
http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/how ... pent-0705/

*Note: This show the 2008 totals.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

I didn't hear about the flag thing anywhere, its how I feel, I made it up :oops: . You may think it ridiculous maybe but as I said its how I feel and we'll see in 30 years, well I'll be dead and gone so you see.
I didn't get that from the email. That the proper answer to our border problems was to behave like those countries.
I think the author was making the point that our open arms policy and give give give is what is ridiculous.
I mean really they are breaking the law and we allow them to live, work, drive, use our social systems etc. I think the author wants something done on the federal level so americans don't feel they are being taken advantage of.
My son has $100+ a week taken out of his gross pay that does not include the SS or Med just federal tax. And its going up. He wants to know for what.
It would be a start to just have the Feds toughen up some or do something and hopefully it won't be to take away the right of this Governor to do as she sees fit in her own state. That's up to the people of her state, they elected her and if they don't agree with what she does then they will vote so.
But the thing with debate again, is you can't change my mind I can't change yours. It's such a fruitless endeavor. I'm not sure why you guys like it so much. It seems like arguing to me. Life is too short for that.
This email I wanted to share, I think the author had a valid point and of course I knew some wouldn't agree. Actually I knew some wouldn't even try to understand.

...
I'm not arguing with you... I am debunking the falicies of the E-Mail example. and the point of debate is NOT to 'Win' or change anyone's minds... it is to reveal truths and dismiss bogus information. Bring truths and facts to me... that's all I'm looking for.
I don't know what the author's intent was... but, they set the basis of their point by stating that other countries handle their borders differently than we do... and they don't have an Illegal Immigrant problem. The author FAILS to point out that in some of those countries he/she listed, people are trying to cross the border, OUT of those places.
And YES... it may be true that you face Labor Camp by illegally crossing into North Korea. So, what's the point? That North Korea's border policy works? So... then what? Should we adopt that policy as our own because it works? What is the point that's trying to be made? Closed Societies don't have immigration problems like open societies do? That is what I don't understand... what is the point?
America's 'Open Arms' policy is what defines America... or should be what defines America.
...
And tell you son that the $100.00 is being withheld for the the year. When he files his 2010 Tax Return, he will find out how much Income Tax he actually pays.
Of that amount, 60% going towards Social Security, Medical and Defense Spending.*:
http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/how ... pent-0705/

*Note: This show the 2008 totals.

Yes we know about the filing, he has been getting small returns for many years but he is over taxed.We all are. I will tell him of the link. He is as thirsty for knowledge as you are. Me I'm just thirsty and would rather listen to PJ and think happy thoughts

g under p

Police State Pete We shall see in the years ahead how this plays out.

Peace

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

Yes we know about the filing, he has been getting small returns for many years but he is over taxed.We all are. I will tell him of the link. He is as thirsty for knowledge as you are. Me I'm just thirsty and would rather listen to PJ and think happy thoughts

...
A small return is a good thing. It means, he is not having too much withheld from his paycheck during the year. What you don't want is a big tax refund because it means Uncle Sam held that money during the year, not you.
And if he is hungry for truth... tell him to always go to the source of something. Don't form opinions on 'analysis' of State Of The Union Addresses by telivision nimrods... go straight to the source and read the speech himself and form his own opinions, rather that merely accepting the opinions of others. That is an independent... and individual.
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and tell him to use the television for entertainment and the radio for traffic reports. That's all they are good for.