Dedicated to Arizona Lawmakers

dasvidana

I think we need to be careful about thinking that this AZ law is about illegal immigration. It is not. It is about racial profiling.

If racial profiling is written into law in this way, then one can argue that racial profiling becomes the law of the land (or at least of AZ). So, all white men in expensive suits can be stopped in AZ because they may be selling subprime mortgages that they know are worthless and may be commiting fraud. If stopped, they will have to prove on the spot that they are not selling crap mortgages or land themselves a date with the AZ justice system.

So, it really has NOTHING to do with immigration reform. It only has to do with racial profiling. Immigration reform needs to happen, but don't be confused that this law begins that process.

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unsung wrote:

scb wrote:

2. Undocumented immigrants

Tonight on my way to my job as a custodial engineer (janitor) I'm going to stop by the corner unlicensed pharmacist (drug dealer) and then after work I will solicit the services of a sexual tension specialist (prostitute).

See how stupid that sounds?

Yes, I see how stupid you sound trying to make that comparison (though I knew you'd say it eventually).

Are you actually trying to suggest that calling them "illegal ALIENS" (your words) sounds less stupid? Or "illegals," which is dehumanizing? They are immigrants (do you deny this?) and the only difference between them and other immigrants is that they don't have their proper papers, thereby making them undocumented (you've actually already agreed on this point).

"Tonight I'm going to dinner with some aliens!" Really??

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Godfather. wrote:

has anybody looked up the cost to American tax payers just to take care of illegals in this country...
I'm not sure but I bet it would put a pretty good dent in the country's daffiest. :?


Godfather.

Ooh! Great question! There was a great study about this - I'll have to try to find it - that showed that undocumented immigrants contribute their fair share to this country, so it's not a cost to us at all. (And many would argue that we benefit from it.)

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dasvidana wrote:

I think we need to be careful about thinking that this AZ law is about illegal immigration. It is not. It is about racial profiling.

If racial profiling is written into law in this way, then one can argue that racial profiling becomes the law of the land (or at least of AZ). So, all white men in expensive suits can be stopped in AZ because they may be selling subprime mortgages that they know are worthless and may be commiting fraud. If stopped, they will have to prove on the spot that they are not selling crap mortgages or land themselves a date with the AZ justice system.

So, it really has NOTHING to do with immigration reform. It only has to do with racial profiling. Immigration reform needs to happen, but don't be confused that this law begins that process.

+1

dasvidana wrote:

So, all white men in expensive suits can be stopped in AZ because they may be selling subprime mortgages that they know are worthless and may be commiting fraud. If stopped, they will have to prove on the spot that they are not selling crap mortgages or land themselves a date with the AZ justice system.

Smellyman

scb wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

has anybody looked up the cost to American tax payers just to take care of illegals in this country...
I'm not sure but I bet it would put a pretty good dent in the country's daffiest. :?


Godfather.

Ooh! Great question! There was a great study about this - I'll have to try to find it - that showed that undocumented immigrants contribute their fair share to this country, so it's not a cost to us at all. (And many would argue that we benefit from it.)

It's kind of like the republican arugment that tort reform will magically drop medical costs. No matter how much this is debunked, it just keeps getting parroted.

_

Colbert Report - The Word - No Problemo:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/281867/april-21-2010/the-word---no-problemo

Smellyman

My Grandfather didn't travel 4000 miles across the Atlantic to see a country over run by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man in back in Ireland.

Boxes&Books

stickfig13 wrote:

Instead of running the risk of racial profiling they should just tat their foreheads with the flag from each individuals country of origin

+1
I am sure that will help many of us who are dark skinned American's avoid having to deal with police. But then we would have people falsifying flags on there foreheads- so we are still probably going to have to carry more documentation .... damn... :evil:

aerial

scb wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

2) they shouldn't be here until they have the proper paper work and besides most of them don't bother with paper work when they cross the border illegally.

Okay, I agree that, ideally, they shouldn't be here until they have completed the proper paperwork and that it's a crime to not do so. But do you think people who commit no other crime than this one should be treated like shit, as if they are violent criminals, or do you think they should be punished in a way that is more fitting of their actual crime and treated with compassion and respect, as our fellow human beings? Do you think they deserve our contempt?

When have they been treated as violent criminals?
compassion, respect, ......coming from you
Why is it okay with you to be a criminal?

_

aerial wrote:

scb wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

2) they shouldn't be here until they have the proper paper work and besides most of them don't bother with paper work when they cross the border illegally.

Okay, I agree that, ideally, they shouldn't be here until they have completed the proper paperwork and that it's a crime to not do so. But do you think people who commit no other crime than this one should be treated like shit, as if they are violent criminals, or do you think they should be punished in a way that is more fitting of their actual crime and treated with compassion and respect, as our fellow human beings? Do you think they deserve our contempt?

When have they been treated as violent criminals?
compassion, respect, ......coming from you
Why is it okay with you to be a criminal?

Seriously???? You don't have anything intelligent to say so you resort to insults that you can't even support? What are you, 12?? I guess I should be used to this coming from you by now, but it's still just sad.

aerial

I'm just getting sick of your hypocrisy and double talk......
you just repeat what you hear

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aerial wrote:

I'm just getting sick of your hypocrisy and double talk......
you just repeat what you hear

Are you talking to me?? Again, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? :? :?

And if it is me you're accusing of hypocrisy, double-talk, and repeating what I hear (or even if it's someone else), why don't you try to back up what you say for once?? :roll:

gimmesometruth27

scb wrote:

aerial wrote:

I'm just getting sick of your hypocrisy and double talk......
you just repeat what you hear

Are you talking to me?? Again, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? :? :?

And if it is me you're accusing of hypocrisy, double-talk, and repeating what I hear (or even if it's someone else), why don't you try to back up what you say for once?? :roll:

don't feed the trolls....

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gimmesometruth27 wrote:

scb wrote:

aerial wrote:

I'm just getting sick of your hypocrisy and double talk......
you just repeat what you hear

Are you talking to me?? Again, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? :? :?

And if it is me you're accusing of hypocrisy, double-talk, and repeating what I hear (or even if it's someone else), why don't you try to back up what you say for once?? :roll:

don't feed the trolls....

I know, I know. Thanks.

aerial

scb wrote:

aerial wrote:

I'm just getting sick of your hypocrisy and double talk......
you just repeat what you hear

Are you talking to me?? Again, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? :? :?

And if it is me you're accusing of hypocrisy, double-talk, and repeating what I hear (or even if it's someone else), why don't you try to back up what you say for once?? :roll:

prfctlefts wrote:
So what should they do then. It's easy for all of you to criticize the Arizona govenor for signing this bill,but What if it was your state that was in a state of emergency. What if you lived on the southern boarder that was being controlled by Mexican drug lords ? If the Federal Gov ware doing their damn job(protecting it's citizens ) and not worried about votes we wouldn't be having this problem.

by scb » 24 Apr 2010 18:27
I live on the southern border and we're not even considering enacting such a law.

You state this insinuating you have no problems in your state with illegal aliens.....when your state really did have a problem with illegal aliens driving illegally.....
So instead of enforcing the law your state just changes the laws when they become inconvenient .... Such as letting illegal aliens have a drivers license.... you guys are just adding to the problem and catering to law breakers

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aerial wrote:

scb wrote:

aerial wrote:

I'm just getting sick of your hypocrisy and double talk......
you just repeat what you hear

Are you talking to me?? Again, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? :? :?

And if it is me you're accusing of hypocrisy, double-talk, and repeating what I hear (or even if it's someone else), why don't you try to back up what you say for once?? :roll:

prfctlefts wrote:
So what should they do then. It's easy for all of you to criticize the Arizona govenor for signing this bill,but What if it was your state that was in a state of emergency. What if you lived on the southern boarder that was being controlled by Mexican drug lords ? If the Federal Gov ware doing their damn job(protecting it's citizens ) and not worried about votes we wouldn't be having this problem.

by scb » 24 Apr 2010 18:27
I live on the southern border and we're not even considering enacting such a law.

You state this insinuating you have no problems in your state with illegal aliens.....when your state really did have a problem with illegal aliens driving illegally.....
So instead of enforcing the law your state just changes the laws when they become inconvenient .... Such as letting illegal aliens have a drivers license.... you guys are just adding to the problem and catering to law breakers

1. You insulted me and can't even back it up. :roll:

2. I have not contradicted myself at all. As you yourself have pointed out, I said we don't feel the need to enact such a law; I NEVER said we have ZERO problems. It's not my fault your reading comprehension skills are lacking. Perhaps you were poorly educated because your school was overrun by the children of illegal immigrants.

3. My state can make whatever state laws we want to; we're not hurting anyone. We did not change immigration law; we enacted a law that is in the best interest of the citizens of our state and we stand by that law. If you think it's a problem for undocumented immigrants to have drivers licenses, I encourage you to stay the fuck out of New Mexico. And if you agree with prfctlfts that it's a problem for people to be driving without drivers licenses and insurance, then you're a hypocrite. So which is it?

KDH12

aerial wrote:

I'm just getting sick of your hypocrisy and double talk......
you just repeat what you hear

:roll:

and everything you say is an original idea that you just came up with

KDH12

Smellyman wrote:

My Grandfather didn't travel 4000 miles across the Atlantic to see a country over run by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man in back in Ireland.

KDH12

scb wrote:

KDH12 wrote:

here is a great example about how differently whites kids are treated by the law versus minority kids

check it out
http://insideandout.chicagopublicradio. ... le-justice

Wow. Excellent article. The parts I found particularly interesting were: 1) There are 29 black kids for every 1 kid in juvenile detention. 2) The concept of protecting OUR kids. I really think it's all about fear/disrespect of the "other". I can see how this can be a somewhat natural human tendency, but I think we have to consciously put an end to it. 3) How the white kids are given breaks on their charges. This, of course, leads to further breaks down the line because their records appear to be cleaner than they should be. I know this happens because it happens to me. I don't really break the law and I drive pretty well but, as I've said, when I do get pulled over for speeding I either don't get a ticket or the cop gives me a ticket but then has it dismissed. So now if I get pulled over, the cop notes that I have a perfectly clean record and that makes him less likely to give me a ticket. It's self-perpetuating privilege. (God I feel like I should shut up about all this privilege lest my "luck" come to an end!)

as you know I work in the county jail and I what this article talks about in terms of justice system inequities pretty translates to the adult system as well

and in terms of "illegals" when I am sitting in the discharge area of the jail INS is always there picking up people who are getting deported and what I find interesting is that none of them look like illegal immigrants..... some look white, some don't, some speak Spanish, some don't, some are from eastern Europe, majority are from Latin America. But they do not fit any profile or mold.

I would hate to have to pick the "illegals" out in a line up.....

KDH12

unsung wrote:

KDH12 wrote:

scb wrote:

I'm not saying people shouldn't get papers when they come to the U.S. I'm sure many/most of them would if they could. But oftentimes they can't, and everyone's circumstance is different. I just think most undocumented immigrants are good people who have committed no crime except for failure to complete costly, complicated paperwork and they, as a group, don't deserve the contempt and disrespect they receive from many Americans.

here in Chicago many crimes that are committed by Hispanics (I am not saying they commit most crimes but the ones committed by them) are done by LEGAL residents. The Latin Kings are growing exponentially here and they are all legal. This law would solve nothing here.

Chicago has a huge illegal alien population. Illinois is fifth in the nation IIRC for illegal population.

did you even read my post or were you sharing some new information you discovered on the internet?

I was not debating that Chicago has a huge illegal immigrant population I know they do and I have worked in a lot of restaurants here

but rounded them all up would solve none of our problems.... NONE of them, except much of the city would shut down... no restaurants would be open, no landscapers, etc