LOOK HERE IT IS.....
Arizona is not setting immagration policy or even contra-veining it. Its upholding Federal immagration policy which the FEDERAL GOVENMENT IS NOT DOING !!!!
Arizona is legitimately protecting it's citizens from the financial burdens and criminal threats against it. They are'nt changing federal law :roll:
It's pretty clear that there's no pre-emption issue,supremacy issue or constitutional issue of any kind.
SB 1070 makes changes to laws relating to the enforcement on immigration laws, failure to carry an alien registration document, day laborers, harboring or transporting illegal aliens and employer sanctions.
History
8 U.S.C. § 1373(c) requires Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to respond to inquiries by federal, state, or local government agencies seeking to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within the jurisdiction of the agency for any purpose authorized by law, by providing the requested verification or status information.
Laws 2007, Ch. 279 enacted the Legal Arizona Workers Act (Act). The Act: expands aggravated taking the identity of another person or entity to include the intent to obtain employment; prohibits an employer from intentionally employing an unauthorized alien or knowingly employing an unauthorized alien; requires the Attorney General (AG) or county attorney to investigate complaints and classifies filing a false and frivolous complaint as a class 3 misdemeanor; provides for license suspension for the first violation; requires license revocation on a second violation during a probationary period; and after December 31, 2007, requires every employer to utilize E-Verify to verify employment eligibility. Laws 2008, Chapter 152 further amended the Act.
Provisions
Enforcement of Immigration Law
· Prohibits law enforcement officials and law enforcement agencies of this state or counties, municipalities and political subdivisions from restricting or limiting the enforcement of the federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.
· Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a lawful contact where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.
· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government. OH THE HORROR :roll: :roll:
· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution. It''s says it right here . So Now all you leftist and people who are saying that people are going to be racially profiled can relax. It recognizes FEDERAL, current, local ,and state law.
· Specifies that a person is presumed to be lawfully present if the person provides any of the following:
Ø A valid Arizona driver license.
Ø A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
Ø A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
Ø A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance.
· Requires that if a person is convicted of any state or local law, on discharge from imprisonment or on the assessment of any monetary obligation imposed, ICE or U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) must be immediately notified.
· Authorizes a law enforcement agency to securely transport an unlawfully present alien to a federal facility.
· Requires a law enforcement agency to obtain judicial authorization before securely transporting an unlawfully present alien to a point of transfer that is outside of Arizona.
· Prohibits, except as provided in federal law, officials and agencies of counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions from being prevented or restricted from sending, receiving or maintaining information relating to the immigration status, of any individual or exchanging that information with another governmental entity for the following official purposes:
Ø Determination of eligibility for any public benefit, service or license.
Ø Verification of any claim of legal domicile if legal domicile is required by law or judicial order.
Ø If the person is an alien, determination of the person’s compliance with federal registration laws.
Ø Pursuant to federal laws regarding communication between government agencies and federal immigration agencies.
· Stipulates that these provisions does not implement, authorize or establish and cannot be construed to implement authorize or establish the REAL ID Act of 2005, including the use of Radio Frequency Identification (RFID).
· Allows a person who is a legal resident of this state to bring an action in superior court to challenge officials and agencies of the state, counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions that adopt or implement a policy that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.
· Requires the court to order any that a violating entity pays a civil penalty of at least $1,000 and not to exceed $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after it has been found to be violating these provisions.
· States that the court will collect the penalty and transmit the collected monies to the state Treasurer for deposit in the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) Fund.
· Authorizes the court to award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or any official or agency that prevails in a case brought under these provisions.
· Indemnifies officers against actions brought under these provisions, except if the officer has been adjudged to have acted in bad faith.
· Stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with federal immigration law protecting the civil right of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of US citizens.
Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document
· Specifies that in addition to any violation of federal law, a person is guilty of willful failure to complete or carry an alien registration document if the person is in violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1304(e) or 1306(a).
· Stipulates that the immigration status may be determined by:
Ø A law enforcement officer who is authorized by the federal government to verify or ascertain an alien’s immigration status.
Ø ICE or CBP pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1373(c).
· Prevents a person convicted of the new offense from being eligible for suspension of sentence, probation, pardon, commutation of sentence, or release from confinement on any basis except for as authorized by the Director of the Arizona Department of Correction until the sentence imposed has been served or the person is eligible for release due to early release credits.
· Requires the court to order the person to pay jail costs and an additional assessment of:
Ø At least $500 for a first offense.
Ø Twice the amount the person was ordered to pay for the first offense if this is the second or subsequent offense.
· States that the court will collect the assessments and transmit the collected monies to the Department of Public Safety for deposit in a special sub-account of the account established for GIITEM.
· Stipulates that monies in the sub-account are subject to legislative appropriation for distribution for gang and immigration enforcement and for county jail costs relating to illegal immigration.
· Stipulates that any record that relates to the immigration status of a person is admissible in any court without further foundation or testimony from a custodian of records if the record is certified as authentic by the government agency responsible for maintaining the record.
· Makes a first offense a class 1 misdemeanor.
· Increases the penalty to a class 3 felony if the person commits the offense while in possession of:
Ø A dangerous drug (A.R.S. § 13-3401).
Ø Precursor chemicals used to manufacture methamphetamine (A.R.S. § 13-3404.01).
Ø A deadly weapon (A.R.S. § 13-3101).
Ø A dangerous instrument (A.R.S. § 13-105).
Ø Property used for committing an act of terrorism (A.R.S. § 13-2308.01).
· Makes violations a class 4 felony if either:
Ø It is a second or subsequent violation.
Ø Within 60 days, the person has been removed from the U.S. either under 8 U.S.C. § 1229a or 8 U.S.C. § 1229c.
Unlawfully Picking up Passengers for Work
· Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped on a street, roadway, or highway to attempt to hire or hire and pick up passengers for work at a different location, if the motor vehicle blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic.
· Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for a person to enter a motor vehicle that is stopped on a street, roadway or highway in order to be hired by an occupant of the motor vehicle and to be transported to work at a different location, if the motor vehicle blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic.
· Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for a person who is unlawfully present who is an unauthorized alien to knowingly apply for work, solicit work in a public place or perform work as an employee or independent contractor.
· Defines solicit and unauthorized alien.
Unlawfully Transporting or Harboring Unlawful Aliens
· Stipulates that it is unlawful for a person who is in violation of a criminal offense to:
Ø Transport or move an alien in a means of transportation, or attempt to do so, if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.
Ø Conceal, harbor or shield an alien, or attempt to, if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.
Ø Encourage or induce an alien to come to this state if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that doing so would be a violation of law.
· Specifies that a means of transportation used in a violation of these provisions is subject to mandatory vehicle immobilization or impoundment.
· Specifies that these provisions do not apply to a Child Protective Services worker acting in the worker’s official capacity or a person who is acting in the capacity of a first responder, an ambulance attendant or an emergency medial technician and is transporting or moving an alien in relation to emergency medial services.
· Stipulates that violators are guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor and subject to a fine of at least $1,000. However, a violation involving 10 or more illegal aliens is a class 6 felony and subject to a fine of at least $1,000 for each alien involved.
· Requires a peace officer to immobilize or impound a person’s vehicle if the officer determines either that:
Ø In furtherance of the illegal presence of an alien and in violation of a criminal offense, the person is transporting or moving, or attempting to do so in a vehicle if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.
Ø The person is concealing, harboring or shielding an alien in this state, or attempting to do so in a vehicle if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.
Employer Sanctions
· Provides employers with the affirmative defense that they were entrapped, but they must admit the substantial elements of the violation.
· Stipulates that the employer has the burden of proof proving the following by a preponderance of the evidence:
Ø The idea of committing the violation started with the officer or their agents.
Ø The officers or their agents urged and induced the employer to commit the violation.
Ø The employer was not predisposed to commit the violation before the law enforcement officer or agents urged and induced the employer to do so.
· Stipulates that an employer is not entrapped if the employer was predisposed to violate the law and law enforcement merely provided the employer with the opportunity. Additionally, it is not entrapment for law enforcement to use a ruse or to conceal their identity.
· Requires employers to keep a record of the employment verification from E-verify for the duration of an employee’s employment, or three years, whichever is longer.
Miscellaneous
· Authorizes peace officers, in the enforcement of human smuggling laws, to lawfully stop a person if they have reasonable suspicion to believe the person is in violation of any civil traffic law.
· Authorizes a peace officer to arrest a person without a warrant if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the U.S.
· Establishes the GIITEM fund (fund) and directs monies collected from penalties resulting from policies limiting the enforcement of federal immigration law to the fund.
· Requires the Arizona Department of Public Safety to administer the fund, which is subject to legislative appropriation and is to be used for gang and immigration enforcement and for county jail reimbursement for costs relating to illegal immigration.
· Contains intent and severability, implementation and construction clauses.
· Specifies that this act may be cited as the “Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act.”
This situation is so frustrating. If I can just refer back to the Noam Chomsky / Nazi thread of a few days ago. Did anyone else watch the video link about the similarities he was noticing between the anger in the US and the anger in pre-Nazi Germany?
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK Of course, that's the last thing they want.
This situation is so frustrating. If I can just refer back to the Noam Chomsky / Nazi thread of a few days ago. Did anyone else watch the video link about the similarities he was noticing between the anger in the US and the anger in pre-Nazi Germany?
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK Of course, that's the last thing they want.
This situation is so frustrating. If I can just refer back to the Noam Chomsky / Nazi thread of a few days ago. Did anyone else watch the video link about the similarities he was noticing between the anger in the US and the anger in pre-Nazi Germany?
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK Of course, that's the last thing they want.
wtf are you even talking about :? No one is blaming immigrants. People are pissed at the federal GOV for not doing their damn job.
· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government. OH THE HORROR :roll: :roll:
· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution. It''s says it right here . So Now all you leftist and people who are saying that people are going to be racially profiled can relax. It recognizes FEDERAL, current, local ,and state law.
"Stipulates"- do you really think every law enforcement officer is going to promise not to "solely consider race or color"??? Are you that naive? Don't you think that an officer can now take his time when dealing with me? Just to fuck with me because he doesn't like the color of my skin?
The people who introduced this bill are linked up to white supremacist groups and you support this? WTF!
If we want to crack down on all the companies hiring undocumented immigrants, I think that's more appropriate than just cracking down on the immigrants themselves. But we must then be prepared for the consequences to our economy, including an increased cost of food. Is everyone okay with that?
fixing part of the problem wont work,btw we are paying the consequences right now with the cost
of housing,feeding,medical, etc. but you probley don't believe that do you, when they sneek over here and have babies we pay it and other medical cost not to mention the increase in crime (gang's and drug wars)
Godfather.
No, I don't believe you that they are costing us money overall. And why should I when you haven't proven it?
Regardless, I'm talking about higher costs at the grocery store, restaurants, etc. Do you think everyone, when they get their outrageous grocery bill, will just say "Oh well, I'm saving money in medical costs for undocumented immigrants, so it's all good!" Not likely. And, even if getting rid of all illegal immigrants would save money for the country, will that savings be passed on to each individual whose cost of feeding their family has just increased? I don't think so.
And are you seriously trying to blame gangs & drug wars on undocumented immigrants too?? It's probably also their fault that Tiger Woods cheated on his wife, right? When are we going to start taking responsibility for our own problems in this country?
This situation is so frustrating. If I can just refer back to the Noam Chomsky / Nazi thread of a few days ago. Did anyone else watch the video link about the similarities he was noticing between the anger in the US and the anger in pre-Nazi Germany?
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK Of course, that's the last thing they want.
I don't know if everybody is blaming all our money problems on illegale immigrants it's just one of the problems
and this media coverage of the Az. thing is a little blown up in my opinion cause all the stuff I've read on here is for the most part speculation, "THE POLICE ARE GOING TO PULL OVER EVERY BROWN PERSON ON THE STREET" and I don't think that will happen our citizens and law makers are smater than that...I hope
Well I just read both threads and saw many comments about the cost of their health care, them having jobs in restaurants that Americans could use, the cost of law enforcement for them, etc. So maybe you didn't write that yourself but it is obvious that that is the sentiment behind other people's anger and demands that the government "do something".
There are an estimated 10.8 million illegal aliens living in the U.S. There are three basic options.
1) Enforce federal laws and make it more difficult for an undocumented person to stay on U.S. soil
2) Abolish the border patrol and install a welcome sign
3) Stay with the current system which doesn’t seem to be operating very efficiently.
The biggest question is if this new Arizona law will solve the problem. My gut says probably not because you are addressing the issue one case at a time. People will continue to enter illegally if there is an economic incentive. The crackdown should focus on the employers but even that is difficult due to false documentation floating around.
Overall, it’s just a messy situation. I’ve worked with (suspected) illegal immigrants and they are some of the hardest working and honest people I’ve known. In the end though, I favor the enforcement of set rules.
so tonfig8 I just posted the bill and you are silent. Are you still going to say that there is going to be racial profiling ?
Prfctiefts,
have you not read any of my other recent post on my thread?
I have provided valid information why this bill is wrong. Yes immigration reform needs action.
What do you suggest? Get rid of all undocumented people? Come on that is impossible, give me some real solutions that would benefit our country.
I am not a lefty, I am actually very conservative on many issues. I supported Ron P, Ralf N, and now Obama because he is more down the middle!
There are an estimated 10.8 million illegal aliens living in the U.S. There are three basic options.
1) Enforce federal laws and make it more difficult for an undocumented person to stay on U.S. soil
2) Abolish the border patrol and install a welcome sign
3) Stay with the current system which doesn’t seem to be operating very efficiently.
The biggest question is if this new Arizona law will solve the problem. My gut says probably not because you are addressing the issue one case at a time. People will continue to enter illegally if there is an economic incentive. The crackdown should focus on the employers but even that is difficult due to false documentation floating around.
Overall, it’s just a messy situation. I’ve worked with (suspected) illegal immigrants and they are some of the hardest working and honest people I’ve known. In the end though, I favor the enforcement of set rules.
Jason,
I think everyone favors the law, but these laws were introduced/supported by people who are involved with White Supremacist groups- as a brown skinned American that makes me shocked and saddens me. It saddens me that my average American brother would support anything supported by hate. Especially here where we come to celebrate Pearl Jam, now I know certain people would look at me differently at a show because of the color of my skin. It's heartbreaking because I have always believed PJ had the best fans.....but I guess you can never escape all the hate in our blood!
Yes something needs to be done- Something that will benefit the country
This situation is so frustrating. If I can just refer back to the Noam Chomsky / Nazi thread of a few days ago. Did anyone else watch the video link about the similarities he was noticing between the anger in the US and the anger in pre-Nazi Germany?
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK Of course, that's the last thing they want.
I don't know if everybody is blaming all our money problems on illegale immigrants it's just one of the problems
and this media coverage of the Az. thing is a little blown up in my opinion cause all the stuff I've read on here is for the most part speculation, "THE POLICE ARE GOING TO PULL OVER EVERY BROWN PERSON ON THE STREET" and I don't think that will happen our citizens and law makers are smater than that...I hope
Godfather
Godfather,
how do you feel about the fact that this law was started/created by people who are involved with white supremacist groups? Do you support hate? Does that not bother you? that White Supremacist groups donated over a 1million dollars to see that this bill was pushed?
I am a citizen of this great country, just like you- Only difference is that my skin is brown do you see me differently?
If we want to crack down on all the companies hiring undocumented immigrants, I think that's more appropriate than just cracking down on the immigrants themselves. But we must then be prepared for the consequences to our economy, including an increased cost of food. Is everyone okay with that?
fixing part of the problem wont work,btw we are paying the consequences right now with the cost
of housing,feeding,medical, etc. but you probley don't believe that do you, when they sneek over here and have babies we pay it and other medical cost not to mention the increase in crime (gang's and drug wars)
Godfather.
No, I don't believe you that they are costing us money overall. And why should I when you haven't proven it?
Regardless, I'm talking about higher costs at the grocery store, restaurants, etc. Do you think everyone, when they get their outrageous grocery bill, will just say "Oh well, I'm saving money in medical costs for undocumented immigrants, so it's all good!" Not likely. And, even if getting rid of all illegal immigrants would save money for the country, will that savings be passed on to each individual whose cost of feeding their family has just increased? I don't think so.
And are you seriously trying to blame gangs & drug wars on undocumented immigrants too?? It's probably also their fault that Tiger Woods cheated on his wife, right? When are we going to start taking responsibility for our own problems in this country?
do some resurch on "gang's" and the "cost of undocumented immigrants in the USA",you keep asking me to prove it to you and anything I post for you will never be correct as far as your concerned so do your own homework to make up your own mind,I think you might be supprised
I admire your kind heart and you have no ill feeling for people but you won't believe the problems with undocumented immigrants and gangs till it bites you on the butt.
[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
tonifig8 if I see you differently then I would have to see my wife and son differently along with half my family,
I in no way support racism but I am also tired of having the finger of racism pointed at me because I am white
everytime a group dose not get what they want they cry racism...fuck em !
· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government. OH THE HORROR :roll: :roll:
· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution. It''s says it right here . So Now all you leftist and people who are saying that people are going to be racially profiled can relax. It recognizes FEDERAL, current, local ,and state law.
"Stipulates"- do you really think every law enforcement officer is going to promise not to "solely consider race or color"??? Are you that naive? Don't you think that an officer can now take his time when dealing with me? Just to fuck with me because he doesn't like the color of my skin?
The people who introduced this bill are linked up to white supremacist groups and you support this? WTF!
First of all you sound like you are about 16. You sound like we still living in the 50's Have you ever ben on an air plane ??? If you answered yes,then guess what ? you were racially profiled..
Have you ever been mistreated by the cops based on the color of your skin ?
If so did you file a complaint ??
Do you have proof of this Bill linked up to white supremacy groups.. Dude you are really sound like you are just trying to draw attention to your self.
The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No sociaty can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immagrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
where did you find that quote? that does not sound like your words...nevermind ill look it up myself..
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No sociaty can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immagrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
where did you find that quote? that does not sound like your words...nevermind ill look it up myself..
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
i found it, mark levin...nice....under the hilighted section "Illegal immigration is against the law, and threatens our security, morality and traditions as a nation." http://www.faulkforcongress.org/2010/04 ... rinciples/
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
tonifig8 if I see you differently then I would have to see my wife and son differently along with half my family,
I in no way support racism but I am also tired of having the finger of racism pointed at me because I am white
everytime a group dose not get what they want they cry racism...fuck em !
Godfather.
Fu@! who? Who is them? I am not calling you a racist, I am asking you if you stand behind a bill that was introduced by racist people? I know there is a lot of wrong/special interest in many bills introduced, but this is a direct question related to this particular bill.
If there is hate in anyone rhetoric, depending on the conversation you can be labeled a racist. Especially when you are not willing to provide any real solutions. It would be impossible to get a million buses and just start rounding up illegal immigrants......who would do that?
The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No sociaty can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immagrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
where did you find that quote? that does not sound like your words...nevermind ill look it up myself..
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
i found it, mark levin...nice....under the hilighted section "Illegal immigration is against the law, and threatens our security, morality and traditions as a nation." http://www.faulkforcongress.org/2010/04 ... rinciples/
yep thats it Im currently reading his book liberty and tyranny.. may be you should read it sometime..
· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government. OH THE HORROR :roll: :roll:
· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution. It''s says it right here . So Now all you leftist and people who are saying that people are going to be racially profiled can relax. It recognizes FEDERAL, current, local ,and state law.
"Stipulates"- do you really think every law enforcement officer is going to promise not to "solely consider race or color"??? Are you that naive? Don't you think that an officer can now take his time when dealing with me? Just to fuck with me because he doesn't like the color of my skin?
The people who introduced this bill are linked up to white supremacist groups and you support this? WTF!
First of all you sound like you are about 16. You sound like we still living in the 50's Have you ever ben on an air plane ??? If you answered yes,then guess what ? you were racially profiled..
Have you ever been mistreated by the cops based on the color of your skin ?
If so did you file a complaint ??
Do you have proof of this Bill linked up to white supremacy groups.. Dude you are really sound like you are just trying to draw attention to your self.
I am using myself as an example because the color of my skin is brown. I am using real life situations. I have never been mistreated by cops, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen? Some of my closes friends are police officers - I take the stories first hand from them. I also read news papers, stay connected to national news, listen to talk radio, LA Times, Politico, KFI Conservative talk, NPR, The Progressive, FOX, MSNBC, etc..etc.. on a daily bases.
If you had been respecting/reading my comments you would see that I posted a link that exposes some of the founders of the bill. You call me out directly and don't take the time to view my post - I respect your opinion and I am trying to find a solution here, I am trying to understand your position. I hope you do the same.
here it is again- Hope you take the time to view it all the way through.
tonifig8 if I see you differently then I would have to see my wife and son differently along with half my family,
I in no way support racism but I am also tired of having the finger of racism pointed at me because I am white
everytime a group dose not get what they want they cry racism...fuck em !
Godfather.
Fu@! who? Who is them? I am not calling you a racist, I am asking you if you stand behind a bill that was introduced by racist people? I know there is a lot of wrong/special interest in many bills introduced, but this is a direct question related to this particular bill.
If there is hate in anyone rhetoric, depending on the conversation you can be labeled a racist. Especially when you are not willing to provide any real solutions. It would be impossible to get a million buses and just start rounding up illegal immigrants......who would do that?
sorry that was a bit off the cuff (f@c* em) and not directed at you, my complaint is illegals coming over here and demanding this and that and when they don't get it they cry racism to get attention to their bullshit.
honestly I don't know how to fix it but I am tired of seeing it on t.v and the internet,racism is a crime commited by black white brown and yellow people not just the whites but it's always focused on the whites in the media and that's not good.
The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No sociaty can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immagrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
where did you find that quote? that does not sound like your words...nevermind ill look it up myself..
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
actually it fits right in to what they say, they want the government to protect the sovereignty of a nation. They feel that illegal immigration is an attack on that sovereignty. They want the government to put the limited resources towards the protection of the rights of the people of the united states. It isn't a small government/big government situation here.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Ok I watch that clip you posted... I will say that MSNBC takes things out of context and so does fox. Hell Senator Robert Byrd was an actual member of the KKK and you never hear anything about him. But I digress Can you show where in the bill that makes you think that it's a racist bill.
That isn't my problem, let the restaurants close down. Maybe they will have to actually start hiring Americans that are looking for work.
Personally I believe the owners of these places should be jailed for employing illegal aliens.
...
And so should the farmers, ranchers, landscape contractors, construction contractors, hotel owners, warehouse owners and ANYONE who picks up an illegal day laborer from the local Home Depot.
Who cares if the cost of a Grand Slam breakfast costs 16 bucks... if onions are a buck fifty apiece... if houses cost more as long as the problem is solved.
Everyone cries about 'Money, money, MONEY'... yet, will be willing to pay the increased cost of goods and services passed on to the consumer? I don't get it. Are Americans willing to do the same work... for the same pay? personally... I don't think so.
we don't have to do the same work for less pay this is America and what we built,having illegals work for less money is setting us back on the thing's that unions and hard working Americans have worked so to build.
Godfather.
But you do understand that our goods and services will cost more when we pay all these people such higher wages, right?
Ok I watch that clip you posted... I will say that MSNBC takes things out of context and so does fox. Hell Senator Robert Byrd was an actual member of the KKK and you never hear anything about him. But I digress Can you show where in the bill that makes you think that it's a racist bill.
Don't know if that particular clip is taking anything out of context - It simply states who introduced the bill. Therefore there has to be some kind of prerogative- I would never support anything that was introduced by hate, and if I did, and later found out I would denounce it and recognize it!
The fact that this bill gives the power to police officers to "stipulate" is very dangerous, when they have never been trained on illegal immigrants, and there only resource is basically color profiling.
Look the fu@!ing Governor dodged the question when they asked her what an illegal immigrant looked like. Why the Fu@! is she playing stupid, when there are 600,000+ illegal immigrants in the State!
Congressman Bilbray (R) California says you can tell someone is illegal by the clothes they wear. Maybe Rep. Bilbray can go to Arizona and teach the police how to profile. It's a fu@!ing joke and no real solutions are being made....just making Hispanic's Second class citizens....
The fact that 1 million dollars was spent by white supremacist to push this bill should be an eye opener. I am sure they aren't donating or supporting anything that has to do with progress of the real American way of life.
This situation is so frustrating. If I can just refer back to the Noam Chomsky / Nazi thread of a few days ago. Did anyone else watch the video link about the similarities he was noticing between the anger in the US and the anger in pre-Nazi Germany?
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK Of course, that's the last thing they want.
No, I don't believe you that they are costing us money overall. And why should I when you haven't proven it?
Regardless, I'm talking about higher costs at the grocery store, restaurants, etc. Do you think everyone, when they get their outrageous grocery bill, will just say "Oh well, I'm saving money in medical costs for undocumented immigrants, so it's all good!" Not likely. And, even if getting rid of all illegal immigrants would save money for the country, will that savings be passed on to each individual whose cost of feeding their family has just increased? I don't think so.
And are you seriously trying to blame gangs & drug wars on undocumented immigrants too?? It's probably also their fault that Tiger Woods cheated on his wife, right? When are we going to start taking responsibility for our own problems in this country?
do some resurch on "gang's" and the "cost of undocumented immigrants in the USA",you keep asking me to prove it to you and anything I post for you will never be correct as far as your concerned so do your own homework to make up your own mind,I think you might be supprised
I admire your kind heart and you have no ill feeling for people but you won't believe the problems with undocumented immigrants and gangs till it bites you on the butt.
Godfather.
I've done research on the cost of undocumented immigrants in the USA and what I have found is that they contribute at least as much to this economy as they benefit from it. I just haven't had time recently to dig up the studies. I believe you've posted one article about it and that article didn't factor in all the money they contribute in taxes. Is that correct or did I miss something?
Regarding gangs, what percentage of gang members do you think are here illegally? Do you think if we got rid of all those people, it would solve our gang problem?
[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
Comments
Arizona is not setting immagration policy or even contra-veining it. Its upholding Federal immagration policy which the FEDERAL GOVENMENT IS NOT DOING !!!!
Arizona is legitimately protecting it's citizens from the financial burdens and criminal threats against it. They are'nt changing federal law :roll:
It's pretty clear that there's no pre-emption issue,supremacy issue or constitutional issue of any kind.
SB 1070 makes changes to laws relating to the enforcement on immigration laws, failure to carry an alien registration document, day laborers, harboring or transporting illegal aliens and employer sanctions.
History
8 U.S.C. § 1373(c) requires Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to respond to inquiries by federal, state, or local government agencies seeking to verify or ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of any individual within the jurisdiction of the agency for any purpose authorized by law, by providing the requested verification or status information.
Laws 2007, Ch. 279 enacted the Legal Arizona Workers Act (Act). The Act: expands aggravated taking the identity of another person or entity to include the intent to obtain employment; prohibits an employer from intentionally employing an unauthorized alien or knowingly employing an unauthorized alien; requires the Attorney General (AG) or county attorney to investigate complaints and classifies filing a false and frivolous complaint as a class 3 misdemeanor; provides for license suspension for the first violation; requires license revocation on a second violation during a probationary period; and after December 31, 2007, requires every employer to utilize E-Verify to verify employment eligibility. Laws 2008, Chapter 152 further amended the Act.
Provisions
Enforcement of Immigration Law
· Prohibits law enforcement officials and law enforcement agencies of this state or counties, municipalities and political subdivisions from restricting or limiting the enforcement of the federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.
· Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a lawful contact where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.
· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government.
OH THE HORROR :roll: :roll:
· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.
It''s says it right here . So Now all you leftist and people who are saying that people are going to be racially profiled can relax. It recognizes FEDERAL, current, local ,and state law.
· Specifies that a person is presumed to be lawfully present if the person provides any of the following:
Ø A valid Arizona driver license.
Ø A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
Ø A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
Ø A valid federal, state or local government issued identification, if the issuing entity requires proof of legal presence before issuance.
· Requires that if a person is convicted of any state or local law, on discharge from imprisonment or on the assessment of any monetary obligation imposed, ICE or U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) must be immediately notified.
· Authorizes a law enforcement agency to securely transport an unlawfully present alien to a federal facility.
· Requires a law enforcement agency to obtain judicial authorization before securely transporting an unlawfully present alien to a point of transfer that is outside of Arizona.
· Prohibits, except as provided in federal law, officials and agencies of counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions from being prevented or restricted from sending, receiving or maintaining information relating to the immigration status, of any individual or exchanging that information with another governmental entity for the following official purposes:
Ø Determination of eligibility for any public benefit, service or license.
Ø Verification of any claim of legal domicile if legal domicile is required by law or judicial order.
Ø If the person is an alien, determination of the person’s compliance with federal registration laws.
Ø Pursuant to federal laws regarding communication between government agencies and federal immigration agencies.
· Stipulates that these provisions does not implement, authorize or establish and cannot be construed to implement authorize or establish the REAL ID Act of 2005, including the use of Radio Frequency Identification (RFID).
· Allows a person who is a legal resident of this state to bring an action in superior court to challenge officials and agencies of the state, counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions that adopt or implement a policy that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.
· Requires the court to order any that a violating entity pays a civil penalty of at least $1,000 and not to exceed $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after it has been found to be violating these provisions.
· States that the court will collect the penalty and transmit the collected monies to the state Treasurer for deposit in the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) Fund.
· Authorizes the court to award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or any official or agency that prevails in a case brought under these provisions.
· Indemnifies officers against actions brought under these provisions, except if the officer has been adjudged to have acted in bad faith.
· Stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with federal immigration law protecting the civil right of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of US citizens.
Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document
· Specifies that in addition to any violation of federal law, a person is guilty of willful failure to complete or carry an alien registration document if the person is in violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1304(e) or 1306(a).
· Stipulates that the immigration status may be determined by:
Ø A law enforcement officer who is authorized by the federal government to verify or ascertain an alien’s immigration status.
Ø ICE or CBP pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1373(c).
· Prevents a person convicted of the new offense from being eligible for suspension of sentence, probation, pardon, commutation of sentence, or release from confinement on any basis except for as authorized by the Director of the Arizona Department of Correction until the sentence imposed has been served or the person is eligible for release due to early release credits.
· Requires the court to order the person to pay jail costs and an additional assessment of:
Ø At least $500 for a first offense.
Ø Twice the amount the person was ordered to pay for the first offense if this is the second or subsequent offense.
· States that the court will collect the assessments and transmit the collected monies to the Department of Public Safety for deposit in a special sub-account of the account established for GIITEM.
· Stipulates that monies in the sub-account are subject to legislative appropriation for distribution for gang and immigration enforcement and for county jail costs relating to illegal immigration.
· Stipulates that any record that relates to the immigration status of a person is admissible in any court without further foundation or testimony from a custodian of records if the record is certified as authentic by the government agency responsible for maintaining the record.
· Makes a first offense a class 1 misdemeanor.
· Increases the penalty to a class 3 felony if the person commits the offense while in possession of:
Ø A dangerous drug (A.R.S. § 13-3401).
Ø Precursor chemicals used to manufacture methamphetamine (A.R.S. § 13-3404.01).
Ø A deadly weapon (A.R.S. § 13-3101).
Ø A dangerous instrument (A.R.S. § 13-105).
Ø Property used for committing an act of terrorism (A.R.S. § 13-2308.01).
· Makes violations a class 4 felony if either:
Ø It is a second or subsequent violation.
Ø Within 60 days, the person has been removed from the U.S. either under 8 U.S.C. § 1229a or 8 U.S.C. § 1229c.
Unlawfully Picking up Passengers for Work
· Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped on a street, roadway, or highway to attempt to hire or hire and pick up passengers for work at a different location, if the motor vehicle blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic.
· Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for a person to enter a motor vehicle that is stopped on a street, roadway or highway in order to be hired by an occupant of the motor vehicle and to be transported to work at a different location, if the motor vehicle blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic.
· Specifies that it is a class 1 misdemeanor for a person who is unlawfully present who is an unauthorized alien to knowingly apply for work, solicit work in a public place or perform work as an employee or independent contractor.
· Defines solicit and unauthorized alien.
Unlawfully Transporting or Harboring Unlawful Aliens
· Stipulates that it is unlawful for a person who is in violation of a criminal offense to:
Ø Transport or move an alien in a means of transportation, or attempt to do so, if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.
Ø Conceal, harbor or shield an alien, or attempt to, if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.
Ø Encourage or induce an alien to come to this state if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that doing so would be a violation of law.
· Specifies that a means of transportation used in a violation of these provisions is subject to mandatory vehicle immobilization or impoundment.
· Specifies that these provisions do not apply to a Child Protective Services worker acting in the worker’s official capacity or a person who is acting in the capacity of a first responder, an ambulance attendant or an emergency medial technician and is transporting or moving an alien in relation to emergency medial services.
· Stipulates that violators are guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor and subject to a fine of at least $1,000. However, a violation involving 10 or more illegal aliens is a class 6 felony and subject to a fine of at least $1,000 for each alien involved.
· Requires a peace officer to immobilize or impound a person’s vehicle if the officer determines either that:
Ø In furtherance of the illegal presence of an alien and in violation of a criminal offense, the person is transporting or moving, or attempting to do so in a vehicle if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.
Ø The person is concealing, harboring or shielding an alien in this state, or attempting to do so in a vehicle if the person knows or recklessly disregards the fact that the alien is here unlawfully.
Employer Sanctions
· Provides employers with the affirmative defense that they were entrapped, but they must admit the substantial elements of the violation.
· Stipulates that the employer has the burden of proof proving the following by a preponderance of the evidence:
Ø The idea of committing the violation started with the officer or their agents.
Ø The officers or their agents urged and induced the employer to commit the violation.
Ø The employer was not predisposed to commit the violation before the law enforcement officer or agents urged and induced the employer to do so.
· Stipulates that an employer is not entrapped if the employer was predisposed to violate the law and law enforcement merely provided the employer with the opportunity. Additionally, it is not entrapment for law enforcement to use a ruse or to conceal their identity.
· Requires employers to keep a record of the employment verification from E-verify for the duration of an employee’s employment, or three years, whichever is longer.
Miscellaneous
· Authorizes peace officers, in the enforcement of human smuggling laws, to lawfully stop a person if they have reasonable suspicion to believe the person is in violation of any civil traffic law.
· Authorizes a peace officer to arrest a person without a warrant if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the U.S.
· Establishes the GIITEM fund (fund) and directs monies collected from penalties resulting from policies limiting the enforcement of federal immigration law to the fund.
· Requires the Arizona Department of Public Safety to administer the fund, which is subject to legislative appropriation and is to be used for gang and immigration enforcement and for county jail reimbursement for costs relating to illegal immigration.
· Contains intent and severability, implementation and construction clauses.
· Specifies that this act may be cited as the “Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act.”
· Makes technical and conforming changes.
·
·
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK
+1
wtf are you even talking about :? No one is blaming immigrants. People are pissed at the federal GOV for not doing their damn job.
"Stipulates"- do you really think every law enforcement officer is going to promise not to "solely consider race or color"??? Are you that naive? Don't you think that an officer can now take his time when dealing with me? Just to fuck with me because he doesn't like the color of my skin?
The people who introduced this bill are linked up to white supremacist groups and you support this? WTF!
No, I don't believe you that they are costing us money overall. And why should I when you haven't proven it?
Regardless, I'm talking about higher costs at the grocery store, restaurants, etc. Do you think everyone, when they get their outrageous grocery bill, will just say "Oh well, I'm saving money in medical costs for undocumented immigrants, so it's all good!" Not likely. And, even if getting rid of all illegal immigrants would save money for the country, will that savings be passed on to each individual whose cost of feeding their family has just increased? I don't think so.
And are you seriously trying to blame gangs & drug wars on undocumented immigrants too?? It's probably also their fault that Tiger Woods cheated on his wife, right? When are we going to start taking responsibility for our own problems in this country?
I don't know if everybody is blaming all our money problems on illegale immigrants it's just one of the problems
and this media coverage of the Az. thing is a little blown up in my opinion cause all the stuff I've read on here is for the most part speculation, "THE POLICE ARE GOING TO PULL OVER EVERY BROWN PERSON ON THE STREET" and I don't think that will happen our citizens and law makers are smater than that...I hope
Godfather
Classy
Well I just read both threads and saw many comments about the cost of their health care, them having jobs in restaurants that Americans could use, the cost of law enforcement for them, etc. So maybe you didn't write that yourself but it is obvious that that is the sentiment behind other people's anger and demands that the government "do something".
1) Enforce federal laws and make it more difficult for an undocumented person to stay on U.S. soil
2) Abolish the border patrol and install a welcome sign
3) Stay with the current system which doesn’t seem to be operating very efficiently.
The biggest question is if this new Arizona law will solve the problem. My gut says probably not because you are addressing the issue one case at a time. People will continue to enter illegally if there is an economic incentive. The crackdown should focus on the employers but even that is difficult due to false documentation floating around.
Overall, it’s just a messy situation. I’ve worked with (suspected) illegal immigrants and they are some of the hardest working and honest people I’ve known. In the end though, I favor the enforcement of set rules.
Prfctiefts,
have you not read any of my other recent post on my thread?
I have provided valid information why this bill is wrong. Yes immigration reform needs action.
What do you suggest? Get rid of all undocumented people? Come on that is impossible, give me some real solutions that would benefit our country.
I am not a lefty, I am actually very conservative on many issues. I supported Ron P, Ralf N, and now Obama because he is more down the middle!
Jason,
I think everyone favors the law, but these laws were introduced/supported by people who are involved with White Supremacist groups- as a brown skinned American that makes me shocked and saddens me. It saddens me that my average American brother would support anything supported by hate. Especially here where we come to celebrate Pearl Jam, now I know certain people would look at me differently at a show because of the color of my skin. It's heartbreaking because I have always believed PJ had the best fans.....but I guess you can never escape all the hate in our blood!
Yes something needs to be done- Something that will benefit the country
Godfather,
how do you feel about the fact that this law was started/created by people who are involved with white supremacist groups? Do you support hate? Does that not bother you? that White Supremacist groups donated over a 1million dollars to see that this bill was pushed?
I am a citizen of this great country, just like you- Only difference is that my skin is brown do you see me differently?
do some resurch on "gang's" and the "cost of undocumented immigrants in the USA",you keep asking me to prove it to you and anything I post for you will never be correct as far as your concerned so do your own homework to make up your own mind,I think you might be supprised
I admire your kind heart and you have no ill feeling for people but you won't believe the problems with undocumented immigrants and gangs till it bites you on the butt.
Godfather.
M.L
Liberty and Tyranny
I in no way support racism but I am also tired of having the finger of racism pointed at me because I am white
everytime a group dose not get what they want they cry racism...fuck em !
Godfather.
First of all you sound like you are about 16. You sound like we still living in the 50's Have you ever ben on an air plane ??? If you answered yes,then guess what ? you were racially profiled..
Have you ever been mistreated by the cops based on the color of your skin ?
If so did you file a complaint ??
Do you have proof of this Bill linked up to white supremacy groups.. Dude you are really sound like you are just trying to draw attention to your self.
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://www.faulkforcongress.org/2010/04 ... rinciples/
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Fu@! who? Who is them? I am not calling you a racist, I am asking you if you stand behind a bill that was introduced by racist people? I know there is a lot of wrong/special interest in many bills introduced, but this is a direct question related to this particular bill.
If there is hate in anyone rhetoric, depending on the conversation you can be labeled a racist. Especially when you are not willing to provide any real solutions. It would be impossible to get a million buses and just start rounding up illegal immigrants......who would do that?
I am using myself as an example because the color of my skin is brown. I am using real life situations. I have never been mistreated by cops, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen? Some of my closes friends are police officers - I take the stories first hand from them. I also read news papers, stay connected to national news, listen to talk radio, LA Times, Politico, KFI Conservative talk, NPR, The Progressive, FOX, MSNBC, etc..etc.. on a daily bases.
If you had been respecting/reading my comments you would see that I posted a link that exposes some of the founders of the bill. You call me out directly and don't take the time to view my post - I respect your opinion and I am trying to find a solution here, I am trying to understand your position. I hope you do the same.
here it is again- Hope you take the time to view it all the way through.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp
sorry that was a bit off the cuff (f@c* em) and not directed at you, my complaint is illegals coming over here and demanding this and that and when they don't get it they cry racism to get attention to their bullshit.
honestly I don't know how to fix it but I am tired of seeing it on t.v and the internet,racism is a crime commited by black white brown and yellow people not just the whites but it's always focused on the whites in the media and that's not good.
Godfather.
actually it fits right in to what they say, they want the government to protect the sovereignty of a nation. They feel that illegal immigration is an attack on that sovereignty. They want the government to put the limited resources towards the protection of the rights of the people of the united states. It isn't a small government/big government situation here.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
But you do understand that our goods and services will cost more when we pay all these people such higher wages, right?
Don't know if that particular clip is taking anything out of context - It simply states who introduced the bill. Therefore there has to be some kind of prerogative- I would never support anything that was introduced by hate, and if I did, and later found out I would denounce it and recognize it!
The fact that this bill gives the power to police officers to "stipulate" is very dangerous, when they have never been trained on illegal immigrants, and there only resource is basically color profiling.
Look the fu@!ing Governor dodged the question when they asked her what an illegal immigrant looked like. Why the Fu@! is she playing stupid, when there are 600,000+ illegal immigrants in the State!
Congressman Bilbray (R) California says you can tell someone is illegal by the clothes they wear. Maybe Rep. Bilbray can go to Arizona and teach the police how to profile. It's a fu@!ing joke and no real solutions are being made....just making Hispanic's Second class citizens....
The fact that 1 million dollars was spent by white supremacist to push this bill should be an eye opener. I am sure they aren't donating or supporting anything that has to do with progress of the real American way of life.
Let's work on a solution.
Great post. :thumbup:
I've done research on the cost of undocumented immigrants in the USA and what I have found is that they contribute at least as much to this economy as they benefit from it. I just haven't had time recently to dig up the studies. I believe you've posted one article about it and that article didn't factor in all the money they contribute in taxes. Is that correct or did I miss something?
Regarding gangs, what percentage of gang members do you think are here illegally? Do you think if we got rid of all those people, it would solve our gang problem?
And herein lies the real issue.