Dedicated to Arizona Lawmakers

WaveCameCrashin

tonifig8 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Ok I watch that clip you posted... I will say that MSNBC takes things out of context and so does fox. Hell Senator Robert Byrd was an actual member of the KKK and you never hear anything about him. But I digress Can you show where in the bill that makes you think that it's a racist bill.

Don't know if that particular clip is taking anything out of context - It simply states who introduced the bill. Therefore there has to be some kind of prerogative- I would never support anything that was introduced by hate, and if I did, and later found out I would denounce it and recognize it!
The fact that this bill gives the power to police officers to "stipulate" is very dangerous, when they have never been trained on illegal immigrants, and there only resource is basically color profiling.
Look the fu@!ing Governor dodged the question when they asked her what an illegal immigrant looked like. Why the Fu@! is she playing stupid, when there are 600,000+ illegal immigrants in the State!
Congressman Bilbray (R) California says you can tell someone is illegal by the clothes they wear. Maybe Rep. Bilbray can go to Arizona and teach the police how to profile. It's a fu@!ing joke and no real solutions are being made....just making Hispanic's Second class citizens....

The fact that 1 million dollars was spent by white supremacist to push this bill should be an eye opener. I am sure they aren't donating or supporting anything that has to do with progress of the real American way of life.


Let's work on a solution.

My god man you are so out of touch with reality on this. She didn't answer it bcos it was a loaded question. Where does it say that it gives them the power to stipulate ? It says he intoduced a bill it doesnt mean that he wrote it. Do you understand that the bill had to be voted on and passed in both houses ?? By guess what ????
Democrates and Republicans

and how do you know that these police officers have never been trained in with dealing with illegal immigrants ?? Im willing to bet that they are more than qualified. But you act is if the state of arizona is just going to start deputizing people and lettig civilians make citizens arrest.

Look man no one is going to be profiled it clearly says it in the bill. I also asked you to point out to me in the bill where you seem to think that its a racist bill iand you have yet to do so.
Further more the bill also says this...

Allows a person who is a legal resident of this state to bring an action in superior court to challenge officials and agencies of the state, counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions that adopt or implement a policy that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.

· Requires the court to order any that a violating entity pays a civil penalty of at least $1,000 and not to exceed $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after it has been found to be violating these provisions.

· States that the court will collect the penalty and transmit the collected monies to the state Treasurer for deposit in the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) Fund.

· Authorizes the court to award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or any official or agency that prevails in a case brought under these provisions.

· Indemnifies officers against actions brought under these provisions, except if the officer has been adjudged to have acted in bad faith.

· Stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with federal immigration law protecting the civil right of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of US citizens.


So you can go ahead and have your silly little boycott and if you come in contact with law enforcement and you feel feel that your rights have been violated you can sue the state of Arizona..
Im done discussing this with you...

Boxes&Books

prfctlefts wrote:

tonifig8 wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Ok I watch that clip you posted... I will say that MSNBC takes things out of context and so does fox. Hell Senator Robert Byrd was an actual member of the KKK and you never hear anything about him. But I digress Can you show where in the bill that makes you think that it's a racist bill.

Don't know if that particular clip is taking anything out of context - It simply states who introduced the bill. Therefore there has to be some kind of prerogative- I would never support anything that was introduced by hate, and if I did, and later found out I would denounce it and recognize it!
The fact that this bill gives the power to police officers to "stipulate" is very dangerous, when they have never been trained on illegal immigrants, and there only resource is basically color profiling.
Look the fu@!ing Governor dodged the question when they asked her what an illegal immigrant looked like. Why the Fu@! is she playing stupid, when there are 600,000+ illegal immigrants in the State!
Congressman Bilbray (R) California says you can tell someone is illegal by the clothes they wear. Maybe Rep. Bilbray can go to Arizona and teach the police how to profile. It's a fu@!ing joke and no real solutions are being made....just making Hispanic's Second class citizens....

The fact that 1 million dollars was spent by white supremacist to push this bill should be an eye opener. I am sure they aren't donating or supporting anything that has to do with progress of the real American way of life.


Let's work on a solution.

My god man you are so out of touch with reality on this. She didn't answer it bcos it was a loaded question. Where does it say that it gives them the power to stipulate ? It says he intoduced a bill it doesnt mean that he wrote it. Do you understand that the bill had to be voted on and passed in both houses ?? By guess what ????
Democrates and Republicans

and how do you know that these police officers have never been trained in with dealing with illegal immigrants ?? Im willing to bet that they are more than qualified. But you act is if the state of arizona is just going to start deputizing people and lettig civilians make citizens arrest.

Look man no one is going to be profiled it clearly says it in the bill. I also asked you to point out to me in the bill where you seem to think that its a racist bill iand you have yet to do so.
Further more the bill also says this...

Allows a person who is a legal resident of this state to bring an action in superior court to challenge officials and agencies of the state, counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions that adopt or implement a policy that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.

· Requires the court to order any that a violating entity pays a civil penalty of at least $1,000 and not to exceed $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after it has been found to be violating these provisions.

· States that the court will collect the penalty and transmit the collected monies to the state Treasurer for deposit in the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) Fund.

· Authorizes the court to award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or any official or agency that prevails in a case brought under these provisions.

· Indemnifies officers against actions brought under these provisions, except if the officer has been adjudged to have acted in bad faith.

· Stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with federal immigration law protecting the civil right of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of US citizens.


So you can go ahead and have your silly little boycott and if you come in contact with law enforcement and you feel feel that your rights have been violated you can sue the state of Arizona..
Im done discussing this with you...

70% of Arizonans supported this bill, but 53% of those same people said they worry it could lead to civil rights violations
You must fall under the 17%
I would fall under the 30% who didn't support it.
I will continue to boycott, by myself if necessary.

Boxes&Books

I also asked you to point out to me in the bill where you seem to think that its a racist bill iand you have yet to do so.

The bill was introduced and created by people who are associated with white supremacist groups, :?

are we going to work on a solution? Or are you going to continue to fight me on the bill?

michelleelise

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.

M.L
Liberty and Tyranny

And herein lies the real issue.

Someone just forwarded me a link of David Duke endorsing the Tea Party movement (that's a whole other thread ) and he uses almost the exact same phrase in his message.

gimmesometruth27

prfctlefts wrote:

My god man you are so out of touch with reality on this. She didn't answer it bcos it was a loaded question. Where does it say that it gives them the power to stipulate ? It says he intoduced a bill it doesnt mean that he wrote it. Do you understand that the bill had to be voted on and passed in both houses ?? By guess what ????
Democrates and Republicans

and how do you know that these police officers have never been trained in with dealing with illegal immigrants ?? Im willing to bet that they are more than qualified. But you act is if the state of arizona is just going to start deputizing people and lettig civilians make citizens arrest.

Look man no one is going to be profiled it clearly says it in the bill. I also asked you to point out to me in the bill where you seem to think that its a racist bill iand you have yet to do so.
Further more the bill also says this...

Allows a person who is a legal resident of this state to bring an action in superior court to challenge officials and agencies of the state, counties, cities, towns or other political subdivisions that adopt or implement a policy that limits or restricts the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.

· Requires the court to order any that a violating entity pays a civil penalty of at least $1,000 and not to exceed $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after it has been found to be violating these provisions.

· States that the court will collect the penalty and transmit the collected monies to the state Treasurer for deposit in the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) Fund.

· Authorizes the court to award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person or any official or agency that prevails in a case brought under these provisions.

· Indemnifies officers against actions brought under these provisions, except if the officer has been adjudged to have acted in bad faith.

· Stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with federal immigration law protecting the civil right of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of US citizens.


So you can go ahead and have your silly little boycott and if you come in contact with law enforcement and you feel feel that your rights have been violated you can sue the state of Arizona..
Im done discussing this with you...

its quite simple really. mr webster defines racial profiling as such:

racial profiling
Part of Speech: n
Definition: the consideration of race when developing a profile of suspected criminals; by extension, a form of racism involving police focus on people of certain racial groups when seeking suspected criminals

noun
a form of racism consisting of the (alleged) policy of policemen who stop and search vehicles driven by persons belonging to particular racial groups

i don't know how it can be much more cut and dried and clear than that. this law will be profiling people based on their race and that is not only unethical and unconstitutional, its just plain wrong.

mikepegg44

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.

M.L
Liberty and Tyranny

And herein lies the real issue.

I am not really understanding your point here. If my reply is off base let me know

No one is ever saying when you come here you have to quit being Mexican, Somalian, Kenyan, Liberian, or whatever else, but there does need to be some assimilation into the US and that starts with following the laws on HOW to get here. It seems pretty simple to me

gimmesometruth27

michelle822 wrote:

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.

M.L
Liberty and Tyranny

And herein lies the real issue.

Someone just forwarded me a link of David Duke endorsing the Tea Party movement (that's a whole other thread ) and he uses almost the exact same phrase in his message.

david duke is still alive? that only goes to back up my assertions that the tea party is going to the extreme right now and is at the very least harboring racists and their ideals, even if it is not outwardly exhibited by the leadership of the party. this news can not be good for the "grassroots" movement that is trying to include people of all races...

_

mikepegg44 wrote:

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.

M.L
Liberty and Tyranny

And herein lies the real issue.

I am not really understanding your point here. If my reply is off base let me know

No one is ever saying when you come here you have to quit being Mexican, Somalian, Kenyan, Liberian, or whatever else, but there does need to be some assimilation into the US and that starts with following the laws on HOW to get here. It seems pretty simple to me

I think one of the underlying motivations for the scapegoating of immigrants as the cause of all the country's ills is a fear of a change in or dillution of what many people feel are the "American" culture, language, traditions, customs, and morality.

Note the title of the section of the book this quote came from as well: "Illegal immigration is against the law, and threatens our security, morality and traditions as a nation."

michelleelise

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

david duke is still alive? that only goes to back up my assertions that the tea party is going to the extreme right now and is at the very least harboring racists and their ideals, even if it is not outwardly exhibited by the leadership of the party. this news can not be good for the "grassroots" movement that is trying to include people of all races...

Yes, and tickled pink about the Tea Party

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDeNBsD8iRc

And in fairness, I don't think most Tea Party people would be happy about this or have a high opinon of David Duke. With friends like these...

michelleelise

mikepegg44 wrote:

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.

M.L
Liberty and Tyranny

And herein lies the real issue.

I am not really understanding your point here. If my reply is off base let me know

No one is ever saying when you come here you have to quit being Mexican, Somalian, Kenyan, Liberian, or whatever else, but there does need to be some assimilation into the US and that starts with following the laws on HOW to get here. It seems pretty simple to me

That phrase is often tossed around by certain racists and white supremacists. When they're being "polite" about their views they'll say that it's not that they want African-Americans and Hispanics to leave the country because they hate them, it's just that they want to preserve their white-European culture, heritage, blah blah blah.

mikepegg44

michelle822 wrote:

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.

M.L
Liberty and Tyranny

And herein lies the real issue.

Someone just forwarded me a link of David Duke endorsing the Tea Party movement (that's a whole other thread ) and he uses almost the exact same phrase in his message.

Mark Levin is a lot of things, but I can promies you he doesn't sit at home and think to himself " god I hate brown people....how can I fuck with them today..."
I am so sick and tired of people trying to marginalize a purely small government movement. At what point did they come out and say Whites are better I only like white people and that white people should be the only ones who benefit from lower taxes and less Federal Government? Jesus christ

and here come the replies with a few examples of how the guy in ohio said racist things . . . I didn't say there weren't racists who consider themselves tea party members, but no more so than are in either party of the main stream today. Plenty of racist democrats out there, and plenty of racist republicans, does that mean the democratic party or the republican party is racist? No it doesn't

bigdvs

$3 billion a year to educate, medicate, and incarcerate illegals in the state of Arizona (is the number being used by most of the lamestream)

its no bailout, but that is not chump change for states in budget crunches

Boxes&Books

bigdvs wrote:

$3 billion a year to educate, medicate, and incarcerate illegals in the state of Arizona (is the number being used by most of the lamestream)

its no bailout, but that is not chump change for states in budget crunches

Edit, previous post was a Typo -

info i found was 9 billion a year to Social Security- Information is really all over the place- I will spend sometime researching more accurate numbers

WaveCameCrashin

michelle822 wrote:

That phrase is often tossed around by certain racists and white supremacists. When they're being "polite" about their views they'll say that it's not that they want African-Americans and Hispanics to leave the country because they hate them, it's just that they want to preserve their white-European culture, heritage, blah blah blah.

Please spare me with this crap. I don't care who comes here as long as they do it LEGALLY.. WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES to understand this ?? All of you are showing ignorance of the ongoing, overwhelming crime due to illegal immigrants

Do you think we should just open up our boarders and just let who ever come and go as they please ??


Why don't you go down to the southern Arizona boarder and see for your self how out of control it is. As a matter of fact why don't you go into mexico and see the NARCO TERRORISM FOR YOUR SELF... Theres boarder patrol agents that have been attacked and almost killed by some of these people. heres an article from 2008.
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/speci ... e0227.html


here's another link with more stories that proves that we have an epidemic on our hands, but Im sure you will just ignore it and play the race card. It's our fault
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

Boxes&Books

prfctlefts wrote:

michelle822 wrote:

That phrase is often tossed around by certain racists and white supremacists. When they're being "polite" about their views they'll say that it's not that they want African-Americans and Hispanics to leave the country because they hate them, it's just that they want to preserve their white-European culture, heritage, blah blah blah.

Please spare me with this crap. I don't care who comes here as long as they do it LEGALLY.. WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES to understand this ?? All of you are showing ignorance of the ongoing, overwhelming crime due to illegal immigrants

Do you think we should just open up our boarders and just let who ever come and go as they please ??


Why don't you go down to the southern Arizona boarder and see for your self how out of control it is. As a matter of fact why don't you go into mexico and see the NARCO TERRORISM FOR YOUR SELF... Theres boarder patrol agents that have been attacked and almost killed by some of these people. heres an article from 2008.
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/speci ... e0227.html


here's another link with more stories that proves that we have an epidemic on our hands, but Im sure you will just ignore it and play the race card. It's our fault
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

Have you ever been to the boarder towns of Mexico? I have ... And no one has ever messed with me. When do you hear about white people going to Mexico and being killed for no reason? People involved in the Drug Business are usually the ones who are killed.... sometimes there are innocent killings, but rarely. Just like the US bombs innocent people, it rarely happens, right :roll:
I'm not trying to justify the killings, but don't blow it up as a terrorist threat to the US or talk about it like its the Iraq war

mikepegg44

tonifig8 wrote:

Just an old article I found. Which shares some numbers, I am sure the numbers have changed and have become more accurate. Don't forget immigrants love to spend, they can now afford to buy fast food, cars, clothes, toys, etc..etc..
You wonder why the FED Government doesn't want illegal aliens out?

Immigrant Households and Businesses Generate Billions: In 2005, immigrant households and businesses paid approximately $300 billion in federal, state, and local taxes: $165 billion in federal income taxes, $85 billion in state and local income taxes, and $50 billion in business taxes.

Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Use in Services Over Their Lifetimes: Depending on skills and level of education, each immigrant pays, on average, between $20,000 and $80,000 more in taxes than he or she consumes in public benefits.

can you quote the article because it sure sounds like you are saying immigrants and transposing that with illegal immigrants. was it a typo? or does the article simply say immigrants

WaveCameCrashin

and by the way David Duke can go Fuck himself.. Im sure once people are aware of this, that is tea party members. He will be made well aware of that he is not welcome by any means.

Boxes&Books

mikepegg44 wrote:

tonifig8 wrote:

Just an old article I found. Which shares some numbers, I am sure the numbers have changed and have become more accurate. Don't forget immigrants love to spend, they can now afford to buy fast food, cars, clothes, toys, etc..etc..
You wonder why the FED Government doesn't want illegal aliens out?

Immigrant Households and Businesses Generate Billions: In 2005, immigrant households and businesses paid approximately $300 billion in federal, state, and local taxes: $165 billion in federal income taxes, $85 billion in state and local income taxes, and $50 billion in business taxes.

Immigrants Pay More in Taxes Than They Use in Services Over Their Lifetimes: Depending on skills and level of education, each immigrant pays, on average, between $20,000 and $80,000 more in taxes than he or she consumes in public benefits.

can you quote the article because it sure sounds like you are saying immigrants and transposing that with illegal immigrants. was it a typo? or does the article simply say immigrants

My apologies - it was a typo, thanks for pointing it out.
I will research this further.... one number that is appearing is a contribution of 9 billion per year towards Social Security....

bigdvs

tonifig8 wrote:

My apologies - it was a typo, thanks for pointing it out.
I will research this further.... one number that is appearing is a contribution of 9 billion per year towards Social Security....

how do you figure? how are undocumented paid in cash illegals having SS money taken out of their pay?

mikepegg44

bigdvs wrote:

tonifig8 wrote:

My apologies - it was a typo, thanks for pointing it out.
I will research this further.... one number that is appearing is a contribution of 9 billion per year towards Social Security....

how do you figure? how are undocumented paid in cash illegals having SS money taken out of their pay?

well I can tell you from past experience that people use fake social security numbers and id cards to secure jobs. In that way it is certainly possible to contribute to a program like social security. I just don't think it is nearly as high as the estimates but i think it is too hard to tell either way to get an accurate number