Dedicated to Arizona Lawmakers
Comments
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prfctlefts wrote:so tonfig8 I just posted the bill and you are silent. Are you still going to say that there is going to be racial profiling ?
Prfctiefts,
have you not read any of my other recent post on my thread?
I have provided valid information why this bill is wrong. Yes immigration reform needs action.
What do you suggest? Get rid of all undocumented people? Come on that is impossible, give me some real solutions that would benefit our country.
I am not a lefty, I am actually very conservative on many issues. I supported Ron P, Ralf N, and now Obama because he is more down the middle!0 -
Jason P wrote:There are an estimated 10.8 million illegal aliens living in the U.S. There are three basic options.
1) Enforce federal laws and make it more difficult for an undocumented person to stay on U.S. soil
2) Abolish the border patrol and install a welcome sign
3) Stay with the current system which doesn’t seem to be operating very efficiently.
The biggest question is if this new Arizona law will solve the problem. My gut says probably not because you are addressing the issue one case at a time. People will continue to enter illegally if there is an economic incentive. The crackdown should focus on the employers but even that is difficult due to false documentation floating around.
Overall, it’s just a messy situation. I’ve worked with (suspected) illegal immigrants and they are some of the hardest working and honest people I’ve known. In the end though, I favor the enforcement of set rules.
Jason,
I think everyone favors the law, but these laws were introduced/supported by people who are involved with White Supremacist groups- as a brown skinned American that makes me shocked and saddens me. It saddens me that my average American brother would support anything supported by hate. Especially here where we come to celebrate Pearl Jam, now I know certain people would look at me differently at a show because of the color of my skin. It's heartbreaking because I have always believed PJ had the best fans.....but I guess you can never escape all the hate in our blood!
Yes something needs to be done- Something that will benefit the country0 -
Godfather. wrote:michelle822 wrote:This situation is so frustrating. If I can just refer back to the Noam Chomsky / Nazi thread of a few days ago. Did anyone else watch the video link about the similarities he was noticing between the anger in the US and the anger in pre-Nazi Germany?
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK
Of course, that's the last thing they want.
I don't know if everybody is blaming all our money problems on illegale immigrants it's just one of the problems
and this media coverage of the Az. thing is a little blown up in my opinion cause all the stuff I've read on here is for the most part speculation, "THE POLICE ARE GOING TO PULL OVER EVERY BROWN PERSON ON THE STREET" and I don't think that will happen our citizens and law makers are smater than that...I hope
Godfather
Godfather,
how do you feel about the fact that this law was started/created by people who are involved with white supremacist groups? Do you support hate? Does that not bother you? that White Supremacist groups donated over a 1million dollars to see that this bill was pushed?
I am a citizen of this great country, just like you- Only difference is that my skin is brown do you see me differently?0 -
scb wrote:Godfather. wrote:scb wrote:If we want to crack down on all the companies hiring undocumented immigrants, I think that's more appropriate than just cracking down on the immigrants themselves. But we must then be prepared for the consequences to our economy, including an increased cost of food. Is everyone okay with that?
fixing part of the problem wont work,btw we are paying the consequences right now with the cost
of housing,feeding,medical, etc. but you probley don't believe that do you, when they sneek over here and have babies we pay it and other medical cost not to mention the increase in crime (gang's and drug wars)
Godfather.
No, I don't believe you that they are costing us money overall. And why should I when you haven't proven it?
Regardless, I'm talking about higher costs at the grocery store, restaurants, etc. Do you think everyone, when they get their outrageous grocery bill, will just say "Oh well, I'm saving money in medical costs for undocumented immigrants, so it's all good!" Not likely. And, even if getting rid of all illegal immigrants would save money for the country, will that savings be passed on to each individual whose cost of feeding their family has just increased? I don't think so.
And are you seriously trying to blame gangs & drug wars on undocumented immigrants too?? It's probably also their fault that Tiger Woods cheated on his wife, right? When are we going to start taking responsibility for our own problems in this country?
do some resurch on "gang's" and the "cost of undocumented immigrants in the USA",you keep asking me to prove it to you and anything I post for you will never be correct as far as your concerned so do your own homework to make up your own mind,I think you might be supprised
I admire your kind heart and you have no ill feeling for people but you won't believe the problems with undocumented immigrants and gangs till it bites you on the butt.
Godfather.0 -
[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
M.L
Liberty and TyrannyPost edited by WaveCameCrashin on0 -
tonifig8 if I see you differently then I would have to see my wife and son differently along with half my family,
I in no way support racism but I am also tired of having the finger of racism pointed at me because I am white
everytime a group dose not get what they want they cry racism...fuck em !
Godfather.0 -
tonifig8 wrote:prfctlefts wrote:
· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government.
OH THE HORROR :roll: :roll:
· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.
It''s says it right here . So Now all you leftist and people who are saying that people are going to be racially profiled can relax. It recognizes FEDERAL, current, local ,and state law.
"Stipulates"- do you really think every law enforcement officer is going to promise not to "solely consider race or color"??? Are you that naive? Don't you think that an officer can now take his time when dealing with me? Just to fuck with me because he doesn't like the color of my skin?
The people who introduced this bill are linked up to white supremacist groups and you support this? WTF!
First of all you sound like you are about 16. You sound like we still living in the 50's Have you ever ben on an air plane ??? If you answered yes,then guess what ? you were racially profiled..
Have you ever been mistreated by the cops based on the color of your skin ?
If so did you file a complaint ??
Do you have proof of this Bill linked up to white supremacy groups.. Dude you are really sound like you are just trying to draw attention to your self.0 -
where did you find that quote? that does not sound like your words...nevermind ill look it up myself..prfctlefts wrote:The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No sociaty can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immagrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
i found it, mark levin...nice....under the hilighted section "Illegal immigration is against the law, and threatens our security, morality and traditions as a nation."gimmesometruth27 wrote:
where did you find that quote? that does not sound like your words...nevermind ill look it up myself..prfctlefts wrote:The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No sociaty can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immagrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
http://www.faulkforcongress.org/2010/04 ... rinciples/"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Godfather. wrote:tonifig8 if I see you differently then I would have to see my wife and son differently along with half my family,
I in no way support racism but I am also tired of having the finger of racism pointed at me because I am white
everytime a group dose not get what they want they cry racism...fuck em !
Godfather.
Fu@! who? Who is them? I am not calling you a racist, I am asking you if you stand behind a bill that was introduced by racist people? I know there is a lot of wrong/special interest in many bills introduced, but this is a direct question related to this particular bill.
If there is hate in anyone rhetoric, depending on the conversation you can be labeled a racist. Especially when you are not willing to provide any real solutions. It would be impossible to get a million buses and just start rounding up illegal immigrants......who would do that?0 -
yep thats it Im currently reading his book liberty and tyranny.. may be you should read it sometime..gimmesometruth27 wrote:
i found it, mark levin...nice....under the hilighted section "Illegal immigration is against the law, and threatens our security, morality and traditions as a nation."gimmesometruth27 wrote:
where did you find that quote? that does not sound like your words...nevermind ill look it up myself..prfctlefts wrote:The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No sociaty can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immagrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
http://www.faulkforcongress.org/2010/04 ... rinciples/0 -
prfctlefts wrote:tonifig8 wrote:prfctlefts wrote:
· Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person’s immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government.
OH THE HORROR :roll: :roll:
· Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.
It''s says it right here . So Now all you leftist and people who are saying that people are going to be racially profiled can relax. It recognizes FEDERAL, current, local ,and state law.
"Stipulates"- do you really think every law enforcement officer is going to promise not to "solely consider race or color"??? Are you that naive? Don't you think that an officer can now take his time when dealing with me? Just to fuck with me because he doesn't like the color of my skin?
The people who introduced this bill are linked up to white supremacist groups and you support this? WTF!
First of all you sound like you are about 16. You sound like we still living in the 50's Have you ever ben on an air plane ??? If you answered yes,then guess what ? you were racially profiled..
Have you ever been mistreated by the cops based on the color of your skin ?
If so did you file a complaint ??
Do you have proof of this Bill linked up to white supremacy groups.. Dude you are really sound like you are just trying to draw attention to your self.
I am using myself as an example because the color of my skin is brown. I am using real life situations. I have never been mistreated by cops, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen? Some of my closes friends are police officers - I take the stories first hand from them. I also read news papers, stay connected to national news, listen to talk radio, LA Times, Politico, KFI Conservative talk, NPR, The Progressive, FOX, MSNBC, etc..etc.. on a daily bases.
If you had been respecting/reading my comments you would see that I posted a link that exposes some of the founders of the bill. You call me out directly and don't take the time to view my post - I respect your opinion and I am trying to find a solution here, I am trying to understand your position. I hope you do the same.
here it is again- Hope you take the time to view it all the way through.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp0 -
tonifig8 wrote:Godfather. wrote:tonifig8 if I see you differently then I would have to see my wife and son differently along with half my family,
I in no way support racism but I am also tired of having the finger of racism pointed at me because I am white
everytime a group dose not get what they want they cry racism...fuck em !
Godfather.
Fu@! who? Who is them? I am not calling you a racist, I am asking you if you stand behind a bill that was introduced by racist people? I know there is a lot of wrong/special interest in many bills introduced, but this is a direct question related to this particular bill.
If there is hate in anyone rhetoric, depending on the conversation you can be labeled a racist. Especially when you are not willing to provide any real solutions. It would be impossible to get a million buses and just start rounding up illegal immigrants......who would do that?
sorry that was a bit off the cuff (f@c* em) and not directed at you, my complaint is illegals coming over here and demanding this and that and when they don't get it they cry racism to get attention to their bullshit.
honestly I don't know how to fix it but I am tired of seeing it on t.v and the internet,racism is a crime commited by black white brown and yellow people not just the whites but it's always focused on the whites in the media and that's not good.
Godfather.0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
where did you find that quote? that does not sound like your words...nevermind ill look it up myself..prfctlefts wrote:The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No sociaty can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immagrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
honestly, you teabaggers are for smaller government and less taxes, yet you complain when the government is not doing things like patrolling the borders and cracking down on immigration when there is no tax money to pay for it..
you can not have it both ways. its like you people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
actually it fits right in to what they say, they want the government to protect the sovereignty of a nation. They feel that illegal immigration is an attack on that sovereignty. They want the government to put the limited resources towards the protection of the rights of the people of the united states. It isn't a small government/big government situation here.that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan0 -
Ok I watch that clip you posted... I will say that MSNBC takes things out of context and so does fox. Hell Senator Robert Byrd was an actual member of the KKK and you never hear anything about him. But I digress Can you show where in the bill that makes you think that it's a racist bill.0
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Godfather. wrote:Cosmo wrote:
...unsung wrote:That isn't my problem, let the restaurants close down. Maybe they will have to actually start hiring Americans that are looking for work.
Personally I believe the owners of these places should be jailed for employing illegal aliens.
And so should the farmers, ranchers, landscape contractors, construction contractors, hotel owners, warehouse owners and ANYONE who picks up an illegal day laborer from the local Home Depot.
Who cares if the cost of a Grand Slam breakfast costs 16 bucks... if onions are a buck fifty apiece... if houses cost more as long as the problem is solved.
Everyone cries about 'Money, money, MONEY'... yet, will be willing to pay the increased cost of goods and services passed on to the consumer? I don't get it. Are Americans willing to do the same work... for the same pay? personally... I don't think so.
we don't have to do the same work for less pay this is America and what we built,having illegals work for less money is setting us back on the thing's that unions and hard working Americans have worked so to build.
Godfather.
But you do understand that our goods and services will cost more when we pay all these people such higher wages, right?0 -
prfctlefts wrote:Ok I watch that clip you posted... I will say that MSNBC takes things out of context and so does fox. Hell Senator Robert Byrd was an actual member of the KKK and you never hear anything about him. But I digress Can you show where in the bill that makes you think that it's a racist bill.
Don't know if that particular clip is taking anything out of context - It simply states who introduced the bill. Therefore there has to be some kind of prerogative- I would never support anything that was introduced by hate, and if I did, and later found out I would denounce it and recognize it!
The fact that this bill gives the power to police officers to "stipulate" is very dangerous, when they have never been trained on illegal immigrants, and there only resource is basically color profiling.
Look the fu@!ing Governor dodged the question when they asked her what an illegal immigrant looked like. Why the Fu@! is she playing stupid, when there are 600,000+ illegal immigrants in the State!
Congressman Bilbray (R) California says you can tell someone is illegal by the clothes they wear. Maybe Rep. Bilbray can go to Arizona and teach the police how to profile. It's a fu@!ing joke and no real solutions are being made....just making Hispanic's Second class citizens....
The fact that 1 million dollars was spent by white supremacist to push this bill should be an eye opener. I am sure they aren't donating or supporting anything that has to do with progress of the real American way of life.
Let's work on a solution.0 -
michelle822 wrote:This situation is so frustrating. If I can just refer back to the Noam Chomsky / Nazi thread of a few days ago. Did anyone else watch the video link about the similarities he was noticing between the anger in the US and the anger in pre-Nazi Germany?
The big similarity is that the economy is in the can, people are mad, people want answers, they want someone or something to blame so that they can then have some hope of fixing the situation. The cost of undocumented immigrants is not even remotely comparable to the cost of what bailing Wall St and the auto industry, etc. have been. But Republicans don't want to fix Wall St, that would cost them their campaign contributions and probably their jobs. So they hold up an easy answer for their angry constituents: "It's all the illegal aliens fault! We just need to get rid of them. We're broke because your money that you've worked hard for all your life is going to paying for immigrants' health care and education and law enforcement. You're out of work or underpaid because they're stealing your jobs!"
It is beyond ridiculous to look at the myriad serious financial problems in this country - and the rest of the world - over the past couple of years and even remotely blame it on the cost of immigrants. But Republicans need to give constituents an answer that they can fix - and God knows they don't want to have to fix the bigger issues. So they'll direct the anger at immigrants and hope it buys them time. This is where Chomsky's parallel to the development of the Nazi Party was prescient. Germany had huge economic problems - equivalent to the Great Depression in America - and were living under sanctions because of their role in WWI. People's quality of life had deteriorated drastically. Hitler held up the Jews as scapegoat and he told people, "If we could only get rid of the Jews. They're the cause of all of these problems." We look back with hindsight and wonder how anyone could have bought into that because it doesn't even make any sense. Fear and anger will cause people to believe crazy things.
So, anyway, I'm not saying we don't need some kind of immigration reforms to manage undocumented immigration. But to direct so much anger and put so much blame on immigration for the situation we're in today is ridiculous. Please don't buy into the scapegoating being done by people who want desperately to stay in power. Direct the anger where it belongs: Wall St and Washington. We're a nation full of hard-working people, if we could ever reform Wall St and Washington we'll all be OK Of course, that's the last thing they want.
Great post. :thumbup:0 -
Godfather. wrote:scb wrote:No, I don't believe you that they are costing us money overall. And why should I when you haven't proven it?
Regardless, I'm talking about higher costs at the grocery store, restaurants, etc. Do you think everyone, when they get their outrageous grocery bill, will just say "Oh well, I'm saving money in medical costs for undocumented immigrants, so it's all good!" Not likely. And, even if getting rid of all illegal immigrants would save money for the country, will that savings be passed on to each individual whose cost of feeding their family has just increased? I don't think so.
And are you seriously trying to blame gangs & drug wars on undocumented immigrants too?? It's probably also their fault that Tiger Woods cheated on his wife, right? When are we going to start taking responsibility for our own problems in this country?
do some resurch on "gang's" and the "cost of undocumented immigrants in the USA",you keep asking me to prove it to you and anything I post for you will never be correct as far as your concerned so do your own homework to make up your own mind,I think you might be supprised
I admire your kind heart and you have no ill feeling for people but you won't believe the problems with undocumented immigrants and gangs till it bites you on the butt.
Godfather.
I've done research on the cost of undocumented immigrants in the USA and what I have found is that they contribute at least as much to this economy as they benefit from it. I just haven't had time recently to dig up the studies. I believe you've posted one article about it and that article didn't factor in all the money they contribute in taxes. Is that correct or did I miss something?
Regarding gangs, what percentage of gang members do you think are here illegally? Do you think if we got rid of all those people, it would solve our gang problem?0 -
prfctlefts wrote:[The principal responsibility of the GOV is to the citizens,otherwise it ceases to be legetimate. No society can with stand the un conditional mass migration of illegal immigrants. The preservation of the nations territories Sovereignty and the culture,language,traditions and customs that make possible a harmonious community of citizens dictate that citizenship be granted only by consent of the governed. Not by the unilateral actions or demand of illegal immigrants.
M.L
Liberty and Tyranny
And herein lies the real issue.0
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