Woman dies saving her dog...

pandora

dunkman wrote:

pandora wrote:

Brian is worth my life! I really love Brian from Family Guy, after I saved him we'd go have martini's
Seriously, I have been thinking about the woman who lost her life and the love she carried in her heart for her best friend. That's the key, some of us consider our relationships with our pets to be like best friends even better. "I'd rather be with an animal" is pretty much been my motto for my life.
I also thought about this woman's parents. I think a person who loves animals like this probably learned to value them from their parents as a child. So her parents would probably do the same, risk their lives also and although they are grieving they get it.
I have no doubt in my mind my children would risk their lives to save their dogs. My daughter would probably do that for an animal she didn't even know! I would understand her heart and be proud of the depth of care she has for another living thing. And I would miss her terribly but I would never say she was foolish to care so deeply.
My son would know exactly what he was doing but he would go in and get Bonnie the Bulldog because she is his responsibility and she needs him. She is an elderly rescue Bulldog who has given my son purpose in his life. They need each other.
So my point is no one should judge this woman's actions and call her foolish because she valued the life of someone, yes someone, to her, her dog was someone, someone she loved dearly. This judging comes from not understanding another's heart and what is of value in their lives.

unfortunately I will judge her... I, and many thousands of firefighters will agree, find her actions to be 'foolish'. She not only risked her own life but she was also endangering the lives of others who would then have tried to rescue her. For a dog? What about the pet ant? does it not receive the same level of care from you guys who find her actions to be valiant? Should she have rescued a pet ant?

Respectfully your pet ant thing is a bit unrealistic. As far as firefighters this is their job, to save people from fires and that includes someone who goes in to rescue a loved one, which of course they never suggest doing. This being a dog, a child, a parent, whomever. Firefighter do not want people going into burning buildings period.
The fact that you do not understand in your heart the value this friend had in this woman's life is something no one can change for you. You would have to feel it. Some people understand love like this some do not. Others shouldn't judge you because you can not understand this love and you should not judge others for feeling it.

dunkman

Pet snail?


Exactly my point... firefighters and all advice is to not try and rescue anything from a fire... so for those of you saying you would then you are 'foolish'... you are going against the advice of experts and that is foolish... no amount of talking about the love in your heart is going to change the basic definition of the word 'foolish' for me, or for anyone actually.

and i don't understand anything in my heart as its primarily an organ for moving blood around... my brain does understand it though and my brain tells me that a dog is not worth the loss of a human life*




* unless it's Mick Hucknall

Phantom Pain

dunkman wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nDvHufnb20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJv0gssH2s&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IvJX79N ... re=related


really not worth risking your own life for when you see these.

I see what you mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY8YeLEr ... re=related

:P

dunkman

that's from Chewin the Fat... great comedy show!

chadwick

dog saving dog?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HJTG6RRN4E

PearlOfAGirl

chadwick wrote:

dog saving dog?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HJTG6RRN4E

Thank you for sharing Chad, what an unbelievable story..

chadwick

i just woke up so my head is a bit cloudy...
but here goes...

walking into a structure that is fully engulfed in flames is not a good idea at all. walking into a structure that is fully engulfed in flames requires training and the wearing of a firefighters outfit. between the flames and the thick smoke spewing out of a structure a person has zero chance of surviving unless they are wearing the protective gear of a firefighter. to me it's very serious and i would not ever walk into a structure that is ragging in flames and smoke unless i had a firefighters outfit on and had a bit of training.

this goes for trying to save a dog, a cat, a bird, a horse, or even another human being.
to me all life is equal.
i am no better than a tree or blade of grass but i'll be damned if i walk into a serious fire to save another life without putting more of a successful percentage of survival in my corner.

eyedclaar

chadwick wrote:

i just woke up so my head is a bit cloudy...
but here goes...

walking into a structure that is fully engulfed in flames is not a good idea at all. walking into a structure that is fully engulfed in flames requires training and the wearing of a firefighters outfit. between the flames and the thick smoke spewing out of a structure a person has zero chance of surviving unless they are wearing the protective gear of a firefighter. to me it's very serious and i would not ever walk into a structure that is ragging in flames and smoke unless i had a firefighters outfit on and had a bit of training.

this goes for trying to save a dog, a cat, a bird, a horse, or even another human being.
to me all life is equal.
i am no better than a tree or blade of grass but i'll be damned if i walk into a serious fire to save another life without putting more of a successful percentage of survival in my corner.

Agreed... well, except the part about horses. For the last week or so I've felt like punching horses and for good reason (long story).

decides2dream

pandora wrote:

As far as firefighters this is their job, to save people from fires and that includes someone who goes in to rescue a loved one, which of course they never suggest doing. This being a dog, a child, a parent, whomever. Firefighter do not want people going into burning buildings period.
The fact that you do not understand in your heart the value this friend had in this woman's life is something no one can change for you. You would have to feel it. Some people understand love like this some do not. Others shouldn't judge you because you can not understand this love and you should not judge others for feeling it.

exactly.

chadwick wrote:

i just woke up so my head is a bit cloudy...
but here goes...

walking into a structure that is fully engulfed in flames is not a good idea at all. walking into a structure that is fully engulfed in flames requires training and the wearing of a firefighters outfit. between the flames and the thick smoke spewing out of a structure a person has zero chance of surviving unless they are wearing the protective gear of a firefighter. to me it's very serious and i would not ever walk into a structure that is ragging in flames and smoke unless i had a firefighters outfit on and had a bit of training.

this goes for trying to save a dog, a cat, a bird, a horse, or even another human being.
to me all life is equal.
i am no better than a tree or blade of grass but i'll be damned if i walk into a serious fire to save another life without putting more of a successful percentage of survival in my corner.

i wonder how many people would be calling this woman foolish or judging her actions so harshly if she went back in to save her child. i do agree, overall...it IS foolish, to try and save ANYone in such a situation.....and yet, i still imagine there would be many who would take such a risk to try and save one they love, human or otherwise. so it really IS a question of valuing, and loving, another being, no matter the species....and feeling it worth the risk to your own life to try and save another.

my heart goes out to her family.
i also hope someone takes in and loves and cares for this dog, who evidently was so beloved that this woman risked, and lost, her life in an effort to save it.

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

i wonder how many people would be calling this woman foolish or judging her actions so harshly if she went back in to save her child.

if it was HER child then that childs life is more important than a dogs... end of story. this is due to the fact that she gave birth to the fucking thing and kinda help make it ... as opposed to a dog which she probably picked up from a friend for free because it spent 11 hours trying to eat its own tail.

big difference.

dunkman

decides2dream wrote:

pandora wrote:

As far as firefighters this is their job, to save people from fires and that includes someone who goes in to rescue a loved one, which of course they never suggest doing. This being a dog, a child, a parent, whomever. Firefighter do not want people going into burning buildings period.
The fact that you do not understand in your heart the value this friend had in this woman's life is something no one can change for you. You would have to feel it. Some people understand love like this some do not. Others shouldn't judge you because you can not understand this love and you should not judge others for feeling it.

exactly.

it's only 'exactly' in your own opinion... don't pass it off as 'fact'

redrock

pandora wrote:

As far as firefighters this is their job, to save people from fires

It is their job, but they are already putting their lives at risk in a 'normal' fire without having to further risk their lives running behind someone who was 'foolish' enough to run into a burning house for an animal. How good would the family have felt if, not only this lady would have lost her life, but because of her actions, another person is dead (albeit doing his job) - a death that could have been avoided.

I'm not heartless, I have 5 cats (and a mouse and numerous fish). My gut instinct/emotions would also be to go in for the animals (except the fish) as I would know they would be frightened and could die a horrible death. My 'reasoning' side would tell me otherwise. I would probably be gutted and wouldn't be able to forgive myself, but my daugher would still have a mother and my husband a wife. This lady's death is tragic but it's still a death that could have been avoided. Luckily, her actions did not cause injury or death to a firefighter (even if it's their job).

D2D was wondering if it would be the same if one were to try and rescue a child. Guess we wouldn't think it was as 'foolish', especially for a child. As much as I value all life (except cockroaches), way down deep, human life is on the top of the pecking order.

decides2dream

dunkman wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

i wonder how many people would be calling this woman foolish or judging her actions so harshly if she went back in to save her child.

if it was HER child then that childs life is more important than a dogs... end of story. this is due to the fact that she gave birth to the fucking thing and kinda help make it ... as opposed to a dog which she probably picked up from a friend for free because it spent 11 hours trying to eat its own tail.

big difference.

to YOU.
and i am sure to the majority of people.
still, not fact for all.

and i have never pushed my opinion as a fact, saying 'exactly' is akin to 'agreed' imo here. but if you want to get tied down in the semantics of the comment, go ahead ....i'll just stick to the topic. and on that ALL of it is opinion.



and redrock...i DO agree with you overall. i have NO idea what i would do honestly.
i also have to say, yes, most people value human life above all else....but again, not everyone does. there's no right or wrong there, it's just different values. i think someone said as much earlier, and i full agree.

redrock

decides2dream wrote:

there's no right or wrong there, it's just different values. .

As long as you don't put others in danger with your actions. Which, in circumstances such as this one, could be a reality. If you value your pet's life above/on the same par as yours, that is fine and a personal choice but you cannot put that same value on a firefighter's life - he has no say in the matter as he has to do his job. Just like some thrill seekers that come up with such dangerous stunts (but fun!). It's their choice and, if something goes wrong, it's a bit unfair expecting someone else to risk their lives to help them.

My heart goes out to his lady's family and I hope they share the same values as she does. If not it will be so much more difficult for them.

chadwick

to me all life is equal.
not hard to understand.

redrock

chadwick wrote:

to me all life is equal.
not hard to understand.

Until there comes a time to make a difference. Burning house - a 10 year old girl and your 15 year old dog. Both in different rooms, cannot get out on their own - only one can be saved. I'll bet anything the life of a human being will prevail over the life of an animal. Whatever people want to say.

decides2dream

redrock wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

there's no right or wrong there, it's just different values. .

As long as you don't put others in danger with your actions. Which, in circumstances such as this one, could be a reality. If you value your pet's life above/on the same par as yours, that is fine and a personal choice but you cannot put that same value on a firefighter's life - he has no say in the matter as he has to do his job. Just like some thrill seekers that come up with such dangerous stunts (but fun!). It's their choice and, if something goes wrong, it's a bit unfair expecting someone else to risk their lives to help them.

My heart goes out to his lady's family and I hope they share the same values as she does. If not it will be so much more difficult for them.

100% agreement there.
however, i think that's a big part of it....child, dog, cat, elderly parent, whomever.......if you are in the situation, have to make the choice to risk yourself going in to try and save ANYone....you could well put a firefighter's life in jeopardy - and i agree, one really should NOT do that, but people do. that is why i totally agree it is a foolish thing to do - my only point was, i don't think half as many people would even be debating this woman's actions to such a degree except for the fact that she went for her dog and not another human being. obviously, for some they would never make such a choice, but others would, and to dismiss her feelings for this other creature, imo, is just rude and disrespectful. that was all.


*also, perhaps the fact that she did NOT have a husband, or children...perhaps this dog was her main life companion, and thus while she certainly would leave behind her extended family and friends.....in her day to day life, her dog was her greatest love so to speak? and sure, there may be people who might think that sad, idk, and i didn't know her or her situation....but i think the fact that she didn't have to think about leaving a child motherless or a husband a widow, could well play a part. and let's face it, MANY people simply DON'T think in such situations, they just react....rightly or wrongly.

chadwick

redrock wrote:

chadwick wrote:

to me all life is equal.
not hard to understand.

Until there comes a time to make a difference. Burning house - a 10 year old girl and your 15 year old dog. Both in different rooms, cannot get out on their own - only one can be saved. I'll bet anything the life of a human being will prevail over the life of an animal. Whatever people want to say.

good point.
i still stand on what i said earlier.
i am not going into a structure that is fully engulfed in flames.
it is not a good idea and i am no fireman with a firefighter's outfit @ my disposal.

for me, in your scenario, both lives are not going to make it unless i have a firefighters suit on or the structure is not full blown out of control in a ragging inferno.

pandora

This is the funny thing about a debate like this, I can't change your mind and no one will change my heart
I know there are many here that get my point and I see the other side. It does come down to a persons values and what their heart tells them to do. Dunkman said he didn't have a heart though, well not like the one I speak of, but I know he certainly does.
For me my heart is also my conscience. As I said in my original post, I would hope to be so brave as to save my dogs because I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't try. They are my bestest buddies which obviously some people can not understand. I raised my children like this, my husband believes as I do,maybe even more so, one if the things I love him so for. I know they would understand if I left this world like this.
Anyways this lady will remain a hero to me, may her soul rest now with God and may she be forever blessed with this kind of love. The kind of love that makes life worth living and dying for.

eyedclaar

pandora wrote:

This is the funny thing about a debate like this, I can't change your mind and no one will change my heart
I know there are many here that get my point and I see the other side. It does come down to a persons values and what their heart tells them to do. Dunkman said he didn't have a heart though, well not like the one I speak of, but I know he certainly does.
For me my heart is also my conscience. As I said in my original post, I would hope to be so brave as to save my dogs because I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't try. They are my bestest buddies which obviously some people can not understand. I raised my children like this, my husband believes as I do,maybe even more so, one if the things I love him so for. I know they would understand if I left this world like this.
Anyways this lady will remain a hero to me, may her soul rest now with God and may she be forever blessed with this kind of love. The kind of love that makes life worth living and dying for.

People also debate this without the adrenaline and fear of real panic mode. We behave in super crazy illogical ways when panic sets in. Some folks stop thinking and just start reacting... or they shut down altogether. It is easy to say what you think you will do, and what you should do, but what you really do is another story. The only time I have ever considered slapping my wife was when we were in a tight spot deep in the mountains and she went into full blown panic and reacted very poorly. Normally she wouldn't have done that, but who knows how you might react on any given day and to what situation.