Obesity only here in the USA ?

_

pandora wrote:

Its funny about judging people because a huge percentage of the time we are wrong. We judge people, we don't try to understand, we are wrong in the judgement. We never knew what we missed.
There really isn't much chance of being right cause their are so many factors that make up who we are, why, where we are going."Don't judge a book by its cover"
I don't think bonding with people that are like you, your friends or whomever is the same as judging.
When I was injured last year, my entire life and the perception of myself changed. I was living compromised and thought it was the way my life would stay.
It was human nature for me to look around and bond with people in similar situations. Now before this happened I might have looked at these people and thought or judged that I knew how they were feeling, knew what was going with them, when in fact I was clueless.
I don't believe judging has to be human nature, we can consciously change that, but understanding should be. "Walk a mile in my shoes"
I'm not going to be very popular with this thought but it is how I feel.
Life isn't how long we live, its not a marathon, its the quality in which we live and our individual purpose or lessons that our soul must learn and leave with. And we can not second guess what that is for anyone. "Live and let live" and love.
Therefore the obese person who is perhaps living a life that is shortened , you believe you should help, I think by tough love, lose the weight. I say if that is what is within them they will, that they should be loved and respected as is, and allowed to fulfill their potential as they want to without judgement. The same can be said for smokers. We have an imperfect path we walk to learn, all of us.
I also really need to say I dislike debate. Its not in my nature, I know some here start threads just to do so, thats cool for them. I feel it is a civil way to argue and makes me uncomfortable and I am really not good at it.Therefore "tag I'm out" but I have a feeling you will probably want the last word, thats also cool.

Your post(s) inspired me to add another quote - one of my absolute favorites - to my signature.

haffajappa

LikeAnOcean wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

LikeAnOcean wrote:

Just lay off the twinkies people..

For me, I've cut out sugars, unless they are natural. I don't eat food unless its something my body could really use. No cake, no candy, no cookies, no ice cream..

My family thinks its weird I don't endulge in their desserts after dinner, but honestly, if I'm going to be unhealthy I'd rather have a beer, which is still MUCH healthier than sweets. Why put that crap in your body for a 30 second sugar high?

cos it tastes goooooooooooood

lol, people are sooooo brainwashed. My mom has a friend who is desperate to lose weight, but its embeded in her mind that you are supposed to have dessert with every meal.. EVERY meal! I think most people don't even realize it. It's normal to them.

I hate when I go to a restaurant, have a huge ass meal, and they expect you to order dessert... No lady, I just had a half pound cheeseburger, fries and three beers. How the fuck am I going to fit a cake in me? Are you trying to kill me?.. Yet to many people, this meal process is normal and sorry to tell them, but they're not going to loose weight making that drink a diet drink.

yeah... my mom has a friend who is MORE than obese... nicest and funniest lady you'll meet, which makes it seem even more unfortunate that she is so unhealthy.
apparently growing up they had dessert with EVERY meal, including lunch....

i mean, i like a dessert now and then but, every meal?
usually when i go to a restaurant i think mmmm i want dessert after this - but once i'm done theres no way in hell i ever have room!!!!!!

facepollution

scb wrote:

You keep responding with comments about liking people and being close to people and judging whether or not you find their qualities appealing, all of which are completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.

As I understand it your point is that we should ALWAYS keep an open mind and should never judge, right? My point is that the way we know and relate to anything in the world is based on reference to prior experience. You might know that it's good not to judge a book by its cover because at some point in the past you did that, and your judgement turned out to be wrong.

scb wrote:

It's so fucking condescending of people to presume that overweight people are ignorant and need their help. One might even say it's unrealistic, self-righteous, and arrogant.

Hmm is it really though? Let's stop looking at it from a personal level and look at the global problem of obesity. Are we really to believe that ALL of these millions of people suffer from emotional issues that drive them to food? Are they all enlightened about food and nutrition? Are some of them just plain lazy when it comes to preparing healthy food, as I see from my parents and countless friends?

scb wrote:

Regarding being unhealthy, as someone else has already pointed out, there is no criticism of the people who are unhealthily underweight or those who aren't overweight but who have the exact same bad, unhealthy habits you say are the real criticism of the overweight people. I know this is true because I've spent most of my life underweight but with horrible eating and exercise habits, and all the while I've received nothing but affirmation from society.

Sure there is criticism of people who are under weight, take a look at any tabloid paper or magazine and you will find heaps of articles trashing celebrities for being under weight. Nicole Ritchie, Victoria Beckham, Courtney Love, Micha Barton, those are just a few I can think of off the top of my head who have been in the firing line.

scb wrote:

If I was thin and I met you in a bar and went on and on about how much I love chocolate and hate exercise, I doubt you'd have the same reaction as you had to this woman.

Oh you doubt that do you? Well actually you're wrong. The thing that most incensed me about that particular evening was the fact that I was having a perfectly good evening with my friends and a relative stranger came and sat down and proceeded to hi-jack the conversation and talked about herself non-stop to the absolute befuddlement of everyone else sitting at the table. The fact that she was speaking such utter rubbish about a subject she didn't understand just made it worse. If she was thin and had come over and done that I would still have found her annoying and ignorant.

_

facepollution wrote:

As I understand it your point is that we should ALWAYS keep an open mind and should never judge, right? My point is that the way we know and relate to anything in the world is based on reference to prior experience. You might know that it's good not to judge a book by its cover because at some point in the past you did that, and your judgement turned out to be wrong.

No, that wasn't my point. I agree that we relate to the world through the lens of our previous experiences. I even agree that some sort of judgement, on some level, comes naturally. My point is that, despite our previous experiences and tendencies to judge others, we should make every conscious attempt to understand, love, and respect each person for who s/he is, rather than imposing our own experience & judgement onto our understanding of, feelings about, and treatment of them. I don't believe it's even possible to do this without first recognizing our own judgement & perspective. Further, my point was that we should love every single person, whether or not we like them or respect them or find their qualities appealing or are close to them, and that the ability to love others who are different than us is much more valuable than just the ability to love those people we like and are close to.

facepollution wrote:

Hmm is it really though? Let's stop looking at it from a personal level and look at the global problem of obesity. Are we really to believe that ALL of these millions of people suffer from emotional issues that drive them to food? Are they all enlightened about food and nutrition? Are some of them just plain lazy when it comes to preparing healthy food, as I see from my parents and countless friends?

Yes, it really is. If you'll recall, I started out in this thread by arguing that obesity is a public health problem, so I am looking at it from that perspective. And, no, I don't believe that ALL people who are overweight suffer from emotional issues (and I never said they do), nor do I believe they all need enlightenment about nutrition, nor do I believe that none of them are just plain lazy. What I believe - and I think I already mentioned this - is that obesity is a complex issue on a personal level as well as on a population level, and trying to simplify or stereotype anyone's problem fails to give credit to the complexity of the issue and the people who deal with it and does more harm than good. Of course I believe better education should be available to help those who need it, just as much as I believe in other public health interventions for this problem. But making education available and accessible to those who could use it is completely different than giving someone "a bit of a kick up the arse," as you said.

facepollution wrote:

Sure there is criticism of people who are under weight, take a look at any tabloid paper or magazine and you will find heaps of articles trashing celebrities for being under weight. Nicole Ritchie, Victoria Beckham, Courtney Love, Micha Barton, those are just a few I can think of off the top of my head who have been in the firing line.

Those magazines are not only designed to find anything they can possibly find to write about to slam celebrities, but they also only slam them when they are deathly thin. For every one of these articles, there are hundreds of articles and ads promoting a body type that is underweight. And I really don't think you could seriously deny that society generally affirms underweight women and condemns overweight ones. Plus, you didn't address my point about unhealthy habits.

facepollution wrote:

Oh you doubt that do you? Well actually you're wrong. The thing that most incensed me about that particular evening was the fact that I was having a perfectly good evening with my friends and a relative stranger came and sat down and proceeded to hi-jack the conversation and talked about herself non-stop to the absolute befuddlement of everyone else sitting at the table. The fact that she was speaking such utter rubbish about a subject she didn't understand just made it worse. If she was thin and had come over and done that I would still have found her annoying and ignorant.

But, see, this just underscores my point. You are saying you didn't like this woman because of her personality, and yet you have spent a whole thread faulting her for being fat. What does being fat have to do with her personality?? Nothing - but it's something for you to pick on. And, while I do believe that if I had obnooxiously hijacked your conversation you would have had a problem with it, regardless of my appearance or topic of conversation, I don't believe that if I were thin and nice you would have faulted me for my poor eating habits, which is what you have been claiming to fault her for.

facepollution

scb wrote:

But, see, this just underscores my point. You are saying you didn't like this woman because of her personality, and yet you have spent a whole thread faulting her for being fat. What does being fat have to do with her personality?? Nothing - but it's something for you to pick on. And, while I do believe that if I had obnooxiously hijacked your conversation you would have had a problem with it, regardless of my appearance or topic of conversation, I don't believe that if I were thin and nice you would have faulted me for my poor eating habits, which is what you have been claiming to fault her for.

I'm not going to quote everything because most of this is just going around in circles, and it will take up pages. What I was faulting her for was the fact that she completely rubbished the notion that a diet can and does work, and that she took over the evening in the process. And you're absolutely wrong, if we were chatting about health and nutrition, you can bet I would have let you know my views on it, as it's something I'm really interested in. How you can be so sure when a) you weren't there, and b) you don't know me at all, I seriously don't understand. To me it seems like you are making judgements on my personality to fit the argument you are trying to make.

And I still disagree with the idea that we should "love every single person" - love, just like hate, is a strong word and not one I would just throw around. Respect is a far more appropriate word to me, to use love in its place just cheapens its meaning. Would you 'love' the paedophile that moved in nextdoor to you?

pandora

scb wrote:

pandora wrote:

Its funny about judging people because a huge percentage of the time we are wrong. We judge people, we don't try to understand, we are wrong in the judgement. We never knew what we missed.
There really isn't much chance of being right cause their are so many factors that make up who we are, why, where we are going."Don't judge a book by its cover"
I don't think bonding with people that are like you, your friends or whomever is the same as judging.
When I was injured last year, my entire life and the perception of myself changed. I was living compromised and thought it was the way my life would stay.
It was human nature for me to look around and bond with people in similar situations. Now before this happened I might have looked at these people and thought or judged that I knew how they were feeling, knew what was going with them, when in fact I was clueless.
I don't believe judging has to be human nature, we can consciously change that, but understanding should be. "Walk a mile in my shoes"
I'm not going to be very popular with this thought but it is how I feel.
Life isn't how long we live, its not a marathon, its the quality in which we live and our individual purpose or lessons that our soul must learn and leave with. And we can not second guess what that is for anyone. "Live and let live" and love.
Therefore the obese person who is perhaps living a life that is shortened , you believe you should help, I think by tough love, lose the weight. I say if that is what is within them they will, that they should be loved and respected as is, and allowed to fulfill their potential as they want to without judgement. The same can be said for smokers. We have an imperfect path we walk to learn, all of us.
I also really need to say I dislike debate. Its not in my nature, I know some here start threads just to do so, thats cool for them. I feel it is a civil way to argue and makes me uncomfortable and I am really not good at it.Therefore "tag I'm out" but I have a feeling you will probably want the last word, thats also cool.

Your post(s) inspired me to add another quote - one of my absolute favorites - to my signature.

And you always inspire me! I love the quote. Thank you! I hope the trip went well, that you are feeling well and fulfilled after, and I too embrace your sorrow. That is the blessing in death though it brings people together in love. I have a feeling you are a lady surrounded by love, this is my hope.
Your feelings expressed here in this thread are to be admired. Thank you for your input on a subject close to my heart, thats not one of obesity, this is but a format, but of accepting others for who they choose to be and respecting them in their journey in life.

RW81233

SCB/Facepollution are there any peer-reviewed studies that actually reveal the long-term health benefits from "dieting"? From what I have read none of these studies work b/c the fail rate for a diet resulting in weight loss is about 90-95%...so they can't actually demonstrate any positive effects of dieting since few can keep it up that long. On top of that the 90-95% that fail and gain the weight back do more damage to themselves than just "staying fat" (or better yet, staying fat, and getting more active). So I think the women was speaking more than a shred truth that diets are stupid to try.

_

facepollution wrote:

I'm not going to quote everything because most of this is just going around in circles, and it will take up pages. What I was faulting her for was the fact that she completely rubbished the notion that a diet can and does work, and that she took over the evening in the process. And you're absolutely wrong, if we were chatting about health and nutrition, you can bet I would have let you know my views on it, as it's something I'm really interested in. How you can be so sure when a) you weren't there, and b) you don't know me at all, I seriously don't understand. To me it seems like you are making judgements on my personality to fit the argument you are trying to make.

And I still disagree with the idea that we should "love every single person" - love, just like hate, is a strong word and not one I would just throw around. Respect is a far more appropriate word to me, to use love in its place just cheapens its meaning. Would you 'love' the paedophile that moved in nextdoor to you?

I didn't mean to suggest what your response would have been during the conversation. I mean to suggest that you wouldn't have come on here and talked shit about this woman's eating habits if that were really the only thing you had a problem with.

I don't just "throw around" the word love. For you to suggest that I am, or that "respect" is what I meant, or that I am cheapening the meaning again shows me that you don't understand what I mean. And, yes, I would love a pedophile.

_

pandora wrote:

Your post(s) inspired me to add another quote - one of my absolute favorites - to my signature.

And you always inspire me! I love the quote. Thank you! I hope the trip went well, that you are feeling well and fulfilled after, and I too embrace your sorrow. That is the blessing in death though it brings people together in love. I have a feeling you are a lady surrounded by love, this is my hope.
Your feelings expressed here in this thread are to be admired. Thank you for your input on a subject close to my heart, thats not one of obesity, this is but a format, but of accepting others for who they choose to be and respecting them in their journey in life.[/quote]

Thank you for your understanding and kind words. And this topic - the one you speak of - is close to my heart as well (obviously).

_

RW81233 wrote:

SCB/Facepollution are there any peer-reviewed studies that actually reveal the long-term health benefits from "dieting"? From what I have read none of these studies work b/c the fail rate for a diet resulting in weight loss is about 90-95%...so they can't actually demonstrate any positive effects of dieting since few can keep it up that long. On top of that the 90-95% that fail and gain the weight back do more damage to themselves than just "staying fat" (or better yet, staying fat, and getting more active). So I think the women was speaking more than a shred truth that diets are stupid to try.

If I'm understanding you, you're saying that since most of the time when people go on a diet it doesn't work, the woman was pretty accurate when she said diets don't work, right? I can agree with that. (Of course we both know that when a diet works, it works. )

RW81233

scb wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

SCB/Facepollution are there any peer-reviewed studies that actually reveal the long-term health benefits from "dieting"? From what I have read none of these studies work b/c the fail rate for a diet resulting in weight loss is about 90-95%...so they can't actually demonstrate any positive effects of dieting since few can keep it up that long. On top of that the 90-95% that fail and gain the weight back do more damage to themselves than just "staying fat" (or better yet, staying fat, and getting more active). So I think the women was speaking more than a shred truth that diets are stupid to try.

If I'm understanding you, you're saying that since most of the time when people go on a diet it doesn't work, the woman was pretty accurate when she said diets don't work, right? I can agree with that. (Of course we both know that when a diet works, it works. )

well i guess that's the thing when a diet works and people lose weight (I've dropped about 20-25 lbs since I got engaged 3 years ago), does that mean I get a health benefit out of it? I do eat healthier, and am more active, but is that more important than the weight itself?

_

RW81233 wrote:

scb wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

SCB/Facepollution are there any peer-reviewed studies that actually reveal the long-term health benefits from "dieting"? From what I have read none of these studies work b/c the fail rate for a diet resulting in weight loss is about 90-95%...so they can't actually demonstrate any positive effects of dieting since few can keep it up that long. On top of that the 90-95% that fail and gain the weight back do more damage to themselves than just "staying fat" (or better yet, staying fat, and getting more active). So I think the women was speaking more than a shred truth that diets are stupid to try.

If I'm understanding you, you're saying that since most of the time when people go on a diet it doesn't work, the woman was pretty accurate when she said diets don't work, right? I can agree with that. (Of course we both know that when a diet works, it works. )

well i guess that's the thing when a diet works and people lose weight (I've dropped about 20-25 lbs since I got engaged 3 years ago), does that mean I get a health benefit out of it? I do eat healthier, and am more active, but is that more important than the weight itself?

I think maintaining a healthy weight is important. But I'd say having healthy habits is more important. Generally, the two should go hand-in-hand. But we must still account for the fact that some people lose weight in unhealthy ways or are thin despite having bad habits, and some people live healthy livestyles and still fit into the category of being "overweight" (in the eyes of medicine or society). I'd say it's better to be in the 2nd category than the first one. So, to answer your question, you get a health benefit out of maintaining a healthy diet & expercise routine which, in turn, should generally cause you to lose weight (if you were overweight). You do not get a health benefit out of losing weight in unhealthy ways. My philosophy is that everyone should ideally eat right and exercise - so as to take care of their health, not for vanity or to avoid social stigma - and however they turn out is how they're meant to be.

haffajappa

scb wrote:

I think maintaining a healthy weight is important. But I'd say having healthy habits is more important. Generally, the two should go hand-in-hand. But we must still account for the fact that some people lose weight in unhealthy ways or are thin despite having bad habits, and some people live healthy livestyles and still fit into the category of being "overweight" (in the eyes of medicine or society). I'd say it's better to be in the 2nd category than the first one. So, to answer your question, you get a health benefit out of maintaining a healthy diet & expercise routine which, in turn, should generally cause you to lose weight (if you were overweight). You do not get a health benefit out of losing weight in unhealthy ways. My philosophy is that everyone should ideally eat right and exercise - so as to take care of their health, not for vanity or to avoid social stigma - and however they turn out is how they're meant to be.

i think you're very right!
i maintain a pretty healthy lifestyle but my nutrition could use a little work.

i think that some people are missing the point of the thread (no offense) - i don't think the subject is talking about the blurred threshold of what is 'overweight' and what is 'fit' ...the subject is on obesity
while i agree you can be healthy while being a bit overweight (i'm not aware of the health implications/benefits of this) i don't think anyone can argue how obesity is detrimental to your health - which is what the main subject of the thread was....

facepollution

scb wrote:

I didn't mean to suggest what your response would have been during the conversation. I mean to suggest that you wouldn't have come on here and talked shit about this woman's eating habits if that were really the only thing you had a problem with.

Well I didn't come on here and start a thread saying 'this big fat woman.....', I responded to a thread with a specific example to illustrate a point I was trying to make. You need to stop suggesting and realise that you could actually be wrong in your judgement.

scb wrote:

I don't just "throw around" the word love. For you to suggest that I am, or that "respect" is what I meant, or that I am cheapening the meaning again shows me that you don't understand what I mean. And, yes, I would love a pedophile.

Well then we have very different definitions of the word love. I'll take the dictionary's definition of:

"a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person."

I don't feel those emotions for people I don't know. I certianly like a lot of people I meet, and I would like to think I'm always respectful.

How exactly would you express your love for a paedophile? Invite them to your kids' birthday party? At some point you would have to make a judgement on their character. Judgement is a part of human existence. If we all loved each other unconditionally and accepted people's behaviours, that would negate the role of personal responsibility. As much as I can empathise with a paedophile from the point of view that they probably don't want to be attracted to children, their behaviour is still wrong, I think we can agree on that? So there are certain situations where we as individuals and as society make judgements.

RW81233

haffajappa wrote:

scb wrote:

I think maintaining a healthy weight is important. But I'd say having healthy habits is more important. Generally, the two should go hand-in-hand. But we must still account for the fact that some people lose weight in unhealthy ways or are thin despite having bad habits, and some people live healthy livestyles and still fit into the category of being "overweight" (in the eyes of medicine or society). I'd say it's better to be in the 2nd category than the first one. So, to answer your question, you get a health benefit out of maintaining a healthy diet & expercise routine which, in turn, should generally cause you to lose weight (if you were overweight). You do not get a health benefit out of losing weight in unhealthy ways. My philosophy is that everyone should ideally eat right and exercise - so as to take care of their health, not for vanity or to avoid social stigma - and however they turn out is how they're meant to be.

i think you're very right!
i maintain a pretty healthy lifestyle but my nutrition could use a little work.

i think that some people are missing the point of the thread (no offense) - i don't think the subject is talking about the blurred threshold of what is 'overweight' and what is 'fit' ...the subject is on obesity
while i agree you can be healthy while being a bit overweight (i'm not aware of the health implications/benefits of this) i don't think anyone can argue how obesity is detrimental to your health - which is what the main subject of the thread was....

If you are talking about a BMI of over 30 (which is what is considered obese now) then the health implications are relatively minimal (still there but not the devastating thing that we are led to believe). Once you start getting into the BIG numbers (morbidly obese) the mortality rate does go up. As it stands obesity has only been demonstrated to, at most, have a 9 percent corollation to early death, and this is in the most damning studies. At the same time being considered "overweight" is actually better for you than "normal" weight as you age (50+ I believe).

So obesity isn't necessarily great for you, but it's really not as big a deal as what you eat, what you do, how you got to be the size that you are (genetics, family history, smoking, etc.). We do, however, live in a visual society that has been convinced that being "fat" is a visual marker for your ill health, that it's unattractive, that you are lazy, etc.. In some cases it may be bad for you, but generally it is the other things that make you "unhealthy" that are bad whether you are fat or thin. I guess my main argument is that focusing on obesity is relatively silly when there are other issues that are far more damaging to our health.

haffajappa

RW81233 wrote:

If you are talking about a BMI of over 30 (which is what is considered obese now) then the health implications are relatively minimal (still there but not the devastating thing that we are led to believe). Once you start getting into the BIG numbers (morbidly obese) the mortality rate does go up. As it stands obesity has only been demonstrated to, at most, have a 9 percent corollation to early death, and this is in the most damning studies. At the same time being considered "overweight" is actually better for you than "normal" weight as you age (50+ I believe).

So obesity isn't necessarily great for you, but it's really not as big a deal as what you eat, what you do, how you got to be the size that you are (genetics, family history, smoking, etc.). We do, however, live in a visual society that has been convinced that being "fat" is a visual marker for your ill health, that it's unattractive, that you are lazy, etc.. In some cases it may be bad for you, but generally it is the other things that make you "unhealthy" that are bad whether you are fat or thin. I guess my main argument is that focusing on obesity is relatively silly when there are other issues that are far more damaging to our health.

i am not even talking about your BMI being 30... i am talking about seeing people who are 3-4 times the weight of an average person... :shock:

you seem well researched but its still hard to convince me that being that overweight doesn't pose a serious threat to your health.

sorry i'm not sure what you mean, being overweight (rather than normal) at 50+ is ok? i've still got 26 years to go... and a lot of people younger than 50 are morbidly obese

mr.pink

There are several reasons why, but there is no denying we are getting fatter and very unhealthy.

The saddest thing I see in daily life is a PRETTY yet FAT girl. Its sad for her and its sad for everyone else too

_

facepollution wrote:

Well I didn't come on here and start a thread saying 'this big fat woman.....', I responded to a thread with a specific example to illustrate a point I was trying to make. You need to stop suggesting and realise that you could actually be wrong in your judgement.

Am I wrong, then, when I think you would be less likely to use her as an example of someone with poor eating and exercise habits if she were really nice and thin?

facepollution wrote:

Well then we have very different definitions of the word love. I'll take the dictionary's definition of:

"a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person."

I don't feel those emotions for people I don't know. I certianly like a lot of people I meet, and I would like to think I'm always respectful.

How exactly would you express your love for a paedophile? Invite them to your kids' birthday party? At some point you would have to make a judgement on their character. Judgement is a part of human existence. If we all loved each other unconditionally and accepted people's behaviours, that would negate the role of personal responsibility. As much as I can empathise with a paedophile from the point of view that they probably don't want to be attracted to children, their behaviour is still wrong, I think we can agree on that? So there are certain situations where we as individuals and as society make judgements.

I'm sure you saw that the dictionary has more than one definition, including:

"affectionate concern for the well-being of others: the love of one's neighbor."

"the benevolent affection of God for His creatures, or the reverent affection due from them to God."

Can't we feel these emotions for people we don't know, and even people we never meet?

Regarding expressing love for a pedophile... I'm not saying people should go out of their way to express it, just that whatever they do express about a person (note that I did not say a person's action) should come from this emotion. I'm not suggesting that, should a pedophile move in next door, you should bake him cookies or something. And, as I mentioned before, I'm not saying no one should ever form judgements. It's natural to form judgements. But I think judgements about people (note that I did not say people's actions) should be acknowledged and then set aside since, being created from our own experiences & perspectives, they only stand in the way of true understanding. Also, loving others unconditionally and accepting their behaviors are two completely different things. As they say, love the sin, not the sinner.

[We're getting way off topic here. :oops: ]

_

RW81233 wrote:

If you are talking about a BMI of over 30 (which is what is considered obese now) then the health implications are relatively minimal (still there but not the devastating thing that we are led to believe). Once you start getting into the BIG numbers (morbidly obese) the mortality rate does go up. As it stands obesity has only been demonstrated to, at most, have a 9 percent corollation to early death, and this is in the most damning studies. At the same time being considered "overweight" is actually better for you than "normal" weight as you age (50+ I believe).

So obesity isn't necessarily great for you, but it's really not as big a deal as what you eat, what you do, how you got to be the size that you are (genetics, family history, smoking, etc.). We do, however, live in a visual society that has been convinced that being "fat" is a visual marker for your ill health, that it's unattractive, that you are lazy, etc.. In some cases it may be bad for you, but generally it is the other things that make you "unhealthy" that are bad whether you are fat or thin. I guess my main argument is that focusing on obesity is relatively silly when there are other issues that are far more damaging to our health.

I still think this is a really misleading statement at best. And given your use of the word "corrolation" instead of "causation" I don't think it's true. (I still haven't read the stuff you sent me. I'll be sure to let you know if I change my mind.)

RW81233

You gotta check this stuff out...it's mind blowing. Basically the authors of all those books go through the studies that "prove" obesity is bad then critically re-read the methods, findings, connect the dots with corporate funders and so on, then break down the mythology (read mythology because it is rooted in SOME truth) of obesity. Believe me I was like you about a year ago thinking I was going to do this study on obesity and how to combat it, but these books basically refuted or re-framed the findings for the studies I was going to use to support my argument. What is even more interesting about all of it is that the authors themselves started off as anti-obesity researchers and had obesity grants then after doing the research changed their minds. I'm not saying you will, or that you'll totally agree, but they lay out some pretty convincing arguments. BTW the 9 percent corrollation to early death comes from Deb Burgard's chapter in the Fat Studies reader.

The thing that helped me get to this point most was to ask myself why it was that I took the obesity is terrible stance as dogma in the first place...then asked who has the most to gain from this being the case. Basically everyone involved in obesity from Michelle Obama (politically), grant seeking academics (for tenure), the diet/health industry (capital), televisual (culturally) has a hand in making it seem important, because it helps them out. Hell, you could even through me into the mix as someone whose research only exists as contrarian to the popular beliefs in obesity...if it wasn't popular I'd probably be doing something else.