Obesity only here in the USA ?

RW81233

LikeAnOcean wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

i'm kind of confused i guess cos i've only skipped over most of this thread but are people actually insinuating that being obese doesn't pose a threat to your health?

not insinuating...I am stating it as actually recognized scientific evidence that being in the "overweight" range is actually better for your health than being "normal". however the higher and lower you go the worse it is for you.

p.s. jose i usually agree with you on things, and didn't mean to pick on your thread i've just been doing research on this for the past year plus.

Just curious, but do you have any links?

I've always heard/read that even a few pounds over weight can reduce lifespan and calorie reduction can slow down the aging process, so long as you're getting all your nutrients. Everything I'm finding online points to this conclusion. I'd like to read about the other study.

Anyways, obese people are usually 30 or more pounds over weight. I don't think we are talking about people who are a few pounds over.

This is the best I got for a popular source. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... s%3Disch:1. Even for a blog post it has some of the key pieces of research. I think the comment section is very interesting as well.

LikeAnOcean

RW81233 wrote:

This is the best I got for a popular source. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... s%3Disch:1. Even for a blog post it has some of the key pieces of research. I think the comment section is very interesting as well.

What I'm getting from that, is people who are already extremely overweight.. I don't think somebody dropping from 300 to 280 is going to make them healthier, and in fact, loosing and gaining large amounts of weight is a shock to the system. It's not healthy to gain or loose more than 5 lbs a month.

haffajappa

i read in a journal article that being overweight but fit is ok.
i'm overweight but play a lot of sports so maybe i fall in that category :shock:

still need to shed the pounds because i dont really feel healthy anyways

_

facepollution wrote:

Some people genuinely don't have a clue about nutrition and what it takes to maintain a healthy body.

Well that's different than what I thought you were saying and I can agree with this to a great extent. That said, I still don't think it sounded like she is one of those people, even given what she said about diets not working. And I still do think that education about health and nutrition is best done in a supportive way rather than in a kick in the ass kind of way.

facepollution wrote:

How do you know she has a tremendous capacity to love? She might not. And what's to say I don't have a tremendous capacity to love? I might have.

I didn't say she DID; I only said IF she did. She might. And if not her, then surely someone else otherwise like her does. And I didn't say you don't have a tremendous capacity to love; I only repeated what you said about only loving those people you are close to, though I would suggest this limits your (or is a result of limited) capacity to love.

MayDay10

Anyone a Sooner or Fighting Illini?


Nothing beats "The Big Fat Ugly". Just impossible.

"For $25 you can buy a sandwich called "Big Fat Ugly". It consists of two rolls, four cheeseburgers, a double cheesesteak, a chicken cheesesteak, gyro meat, grilled chicken, bacon, sausage, mozzarella sticks, chicken fingers, chicken nuggets, mac n cheese bites, fried mushrooms, jalapeño poppers, pizza bites, onion rings, hash browns, American cheese, mayo, and ketchup. Eat this six pound, football-sized monster in less than 15 minutes and your sandwich is free."

facepollution

scb wrote:

Well that's different than what I thought you were saying and I can agree with this to a great extent. That said, I still don't think it sounded like she is one of those people, even given what she said about diets not working. And I still do think that education about health and nutrition is best done in a supportive way rather than in a kick in the ass kind of way.

I think it's a huge part of the problem, not all of the millions of over-weight people in the world are suffering from emotional issues that lead them to comfort eat.

scb wrote:

I didn't say she DID; I only said IF she did. She might. And if not her, then surely someone else otherwise like her does. And I didn't say you don't have a tremendous capacity to love; I only repeated what you said about only loving those people you are close to, though I would suggest this limits your (or is a result of limited) capacity to love.

Well I wasn't always close to those people! What I was getting at is that I'm not going to make endless efforts to love people that I don't even like. I can certainly tollerate those people if I have to, and I'm always open to having my mind changed.

_

facepollution wrote:

scb wrote:

Well that's different than what I thought you were saying and I can agree with this to a great extent. That said, I still don't think it sounded like she is one of those people, even given what she said about diets not working. And I still do think that education about health and nutrition is best done in a supportive way rather than in a kick in the ass kind of way.

I think it's a huge part of the problem, not all of the millions of over-weight people in the world are suffering from emotional issues that lead them to comfort eat.

scb wrote:

I didn't say she DID; I only said IF she did. She might. And if not her, then surely someone else otherwise like her does. And I didn't say you don't have a tremendous capacity to love; I only repeated what you said about only loving those people you are close to, though I would suggest this limits your (or is a result of limited) capacity to love.

Well I wasn't always close to those people! What I was getting at is that I'm not going to make endless efforts to love people that I don't even like. I can certainly tollerate those people if I have to, and I'm always open to having my mind changed.

Regarding nutrition education, comfort eating, et cetera: I think it's way more complex than either of these things and the issue will not be solved by oversimplification.

Regarding love: I don't think you understand what I (and I would venture to say Pandora) was saying. But I guess that's less relevant to this thread.

Heatherj43

know1 wrote:

I can't speak about other countries, but just looking around here I would say that it's gotten to the point where about 2/3 of the population over 22 is fat.

I don't think it only applies to under 22. Look at kids these days. They are fat at a very young age. They don't play outside as much as in past generations. They sit in front of video games. They also have these things called "play dates" instead of just going out to play. They are the kids of "the McDonalds" generation.
I think we will see the mortality age get lower as these kids grow up.
Do they still have the President's Fitness Program like they did when I went to school?
Something has to be done to get kids active and eating better. In the summer, I use to see lots of kids on the street playing, now they are all inside all the time playing this or that, or watching T.V.
Get them out of the house into physical play and feed them better foods!!

facepollution

scb wrote:

Regarding love: I don't think you understand what I (and I would venture to say Pandora) was saying. But I guess that's less relevant to this thread.

I understand it perfectly, I just disagree, I think it's self-righteous and unrealistic.

pandora

facepollution wrote:

scb wrote:

Regarding love: I don't think you understand what I (and I would venture to say Pandora) was saying. But I guess that's less relevant to this thread.

I understand it perfectly, I just disagree, I think it's self-righteous and unrealistic.

Self righteous is often used in a derogatory manner so I guess I should be offended. The definition implies I or my statements are of smug moral superiority, that I feel greater than the average person due to virtue.
Actually in my original post I am only pleading for the general population to try to be respectful if they indeed can not understand and be compassionate. If I am being unrealistic to believe by opening your heart any one of us can love a morbidly obese person then please leave me to my delusion because I don't want to be a part of world where this is not possible.
There those beautiful words again are spinning in my head "try a little tenderness" and "Lord knows I can't change"
because not everyone fits in a size 12 mold.

_

pandora wrote:

Self righteous is often used in a derogatory manner so I guess I should be offended. The definition implies I or my statements are of smug moral superiority, that I feel greater than the average person due to virtue.
Actually in my original post I am only pleading for the general population to try to be respectful if they indeed can not understand and be compassionate. If I am being unrealistic to believe by opening your heart any one of us can love a morbidly obese person then please leave me to my delusion because I don't want to be a part of world where this is not possible.
There those beautiful words again are spinning in my head "try a little tenderness" and "Lord knows I can't change"
because not everyone fits in a size 12 mold.

It's okay; I think it's obvious that he doesn't understand what I/we were saying. And size 12?! People get shit for even being that big! You have to be a size 5/7 these days to fit the "ideal" mold.

facepollution

scb wrote:

It's okay; I think it's obvious that he doesn't understand what I/we were saying

Obvious because if I did I would agree with you? Let's throw arrogant in there with self-righteous.

pandora wrote:

Self righteous is often used in a derogatory manner so I guess I should be offended. The definition implies I or my statements are of smug moral superiority, that I feel greater than the average person due to virtue.
Actually in my original post I am only pleading for the general population to try to be respectful if they indeed can not understand and be compassionate. If I am being unrealistic to believe by opening your heart any one of us can love a morbidly obese person then please leave me to my delusion because I don't want to be a part of world where this is not possible.
There those beautiful words again are spinning in my head "try a little tenderness" and "Lord knows I can't change"
because not everyone fits in a size 12 mold.

Actually size has very little to do with the point I'm making. What I'm trying to say is that I know I'm not going to like or love every person I meet, I'm ok with that. It's human nature to judge people, even if it's on a sub-conscious level. And it works both ways, what makes you closer to your friends than you are to an annoying work colleague? At some point you will have judged that their particular qualities appeal to you more in some way or another.

At no point did I say that a morbidly obese person wasn't worthy of love, but if you love a person that much you should also respect them by being honest and truthful with them. To be that over weight is unhealthy, no ifs, no buts, it just is - and if you want to see that person live without a whole host of ailments and to see them live longer then would you not try what you could to help them?

pandora

facepollution wrote:

scb wrote:

It's okay; I think it's obvious that he doesn't understand what I/we were saying

Obvious because if I did I would agree with you? Let's throw arrogant in there with self-righteous.

pandora wrote:

Self righteous is often used in a derogatory manner so I guess I should be offended. The definition implies I or my statements are of smug moral superiority, that I feel greater than the average person due to virtue.
Actually in my original post I am only pleading for the general population to try to be respectful if they indeed can not understand and be compassionate. If I am being unrealistic to believe by opening your heart any one of us can love a morbidly obese person then please leave me to my delusion because I don't want to be a part of world where this is not possible.
There those beautiful words again are spinning in my head "try a little tenderness" and "Lord knows I can't change"
because not everyone fits in a size 12 mold.

Actually size has very little to do with the point I'm making. What I'm trying to say is that I know I'm not going to like or love every person I meet, I'm ok with that. It's human nature to judge people, even if it's on a sub-conscious level. And it works both ways, what makes you closer to your friends than you are to an annoying work colleague? At some point you will have judged that their particular qualities appeal to you more in some way or another.

At no point did I say that a morbidly obese person wasn't worthy of love, but if you love a person that much you should also respect them by being honest and truthful with them. To be that over weight is unhealthy, no ifs, no buts, it just is - and if you want to see that person live without a whole host of ailments and to see them live longer then would you not try what you could to help them?

Its funny about judging people because a huge percentage of the time we are wrong. We judge people, we don't try to understand, we are wrong in the judgement. We never knew what we missed.
There really isn't much chance of being right cause their are so many factors that make up who we are, why, where we are going."Don't judge a book by its cover"
I don't think bonding with people that are like you, your friends or whomever is the same as judging.
When I was injured last year, my entire life and the perception of myself changed. I was living compromised and thought it was the way my life would stay.
It was human nature for me to look around and bond with people in similar situations. Now before this happened I might have looked at these people and thought or judged that I knew how they were feeling, knew what was going with them, when in fact I was clueless.
I don't believe judging has to be human nature, we can consciously change that, but understanding should be. "Walk a mile in my shoes"
I'm not going to be very popular with this thought but it is how I feel.
Life isn't how long we live, its not a marathon, its the quality in which we live and our individual purpose or lessons that our soul must learn and leave with. And we can not second guess what that is for anyone. "Live and let live" and love.
Therefore the obese person who is perhaps living a life that is shortened , you believe you should help, I think by tough love, lose the weight. I say if that is what is within them they will, that they should be loved and respected as is, and allowed to fulfill their potential as they want to without judgement. The same can be said for smokers. We have an imperfect path we walk to learn, all of us.
I also really need to say I dislike debate. Its not in my nature, I know some here start threads just to do so, thats cool for them. I feel it is a civil way to argue and makes me uncomfortable and I am really not good at it.Therefore "tag I'm out" but I have a feeling you will probably want the last word, thats also cool.

facepollution

pandora wrote:

I also really need to say I dislike debate. Its not in my nature, I know some here start threads just to do so, thats cool for them. I feel it is a civil way to argue and makes me uncomfortable and I am really not good at it.Therefore "tag I'm out" but I have a feeling you will probably want the last word, thats also cool.

The problem is that most judgement is sub-conscious, and it's the basis for which we understand everything. We assess things with reference to things we already know and make decisions based on that. I totally understand the notion that we should all be less quick to judge, and on a conscious level you are right, we should. But aiming towards being a kinder, more compassionate person, is not the same as not judging at all. For the record I think you've handled yourself perfectly well in this debate, even though we disagree one a few things. I'm not so much trying for the final word, I just want my opinion to be understood.

LikeAnOcean

Just lay off the twinkies people..

For me, I've cut out sugars, unless they are natural. I don't eat food unless its something my body could really use. No cake, no candy, no cookies, no ice cream..

My family thinks its weird I don't endulge in their desserts after dinner, but honestly, if I'm going to be unhealthy I'd rather have a beer, which is still MUCH healthier than sweets. Why put that crap in your body for a 30 second sugar high?

haffajappa

LikeAnOcean wrote:

Just lay off the twinkies people..

For me, I've cut out sugars, unless they are natural. I don't eat food unless its something my body could really use. No cake, no candy, no cookies, no ice cream..

My family thinks its weird I don't endulge in their desserts after dinner, but honestly, if I'm going to be unhealthy I'd rather have a beer, which is still MUCH healthier than sweets. Why put that crap in your body for a 30 second sugar high?

cos it tastes goooooooooooood

LikeAnOcean

haffajappa wrote:

LikeAnOcean wrote:

Just lay off the twinkies people..

For me, I've cut out sugars, unless they are natural. I don't eat food unless its something my body could really use. No cake, no candy, no cookies, no ice cream..

My family thinks its weird I don't endulge in their desserts after dinner, but honestly, if I'm going to be unhealthy I'd rather have a beer, which is still MUCH healthier than sweets. Why put that crap in your body for a 30 second sugar high?

cos it tastes goooooooooooood

lol, people are sooooo brainwashed. My mom has a friend who is desperate to lose weight, but its embeded in her mind that you are supposed to have dessert with every meal.. EVERY meal! I think most people don't even realize it. It's normal to them.

I hate when I go to a restaurant, have a huge ass meal, and they expect you to order dessert... No lady, I just had a half pound cheeseburger, fries and three beers. How the fuck am I going to fit a cake in me? Are you trying to kill me?.. Yet to many people, this meal process is normal and sorry to tell them, but they're not going to loose weight making that drink a diet drink.

_

facepollution wrote:

scb wrote:

It's okay; I think it's obvious that he doesn't understand what I/we were saying

Obvious because if I did I would agree with you? Let's throw arrogant in there with self-righteous.

No, obvious because your responses indicated that you thought I was saying something other than what I was actually saying.

_

facepollution wrote:

Actually size has very little to do with the point I'm making. What I'm trying to say is that I know I'm not going to like or love every person I meet, I'm ok with that. It's human nature to judge people, even if it's on a sub-conscious level. And it works both ways, what makes you closer to your friends than you are to an annoying work colleague? At some point you will have judged that their particular qualities appeal to you more in some way or another.

See, this is an example of how you don't understand what I'm saying. (I won't speak for Pandora.) You keep responding with comments about liking people and being close to people and judging whether or not you find their qualities appealing, all of which are completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.

facepollution wrote:

At no point did I say that a morbidly obese person wasn't worthy of love, but if you love a person that much you should also respect them by being honest and truthful with them. To be that over weight is unhealthy, no ifs, no buts, it just is - and if you want to see that person live without a whole host of ailments and to see them live longer then would you not try what you could to help them?

Regarding being honest and truthfull, some things go without saying. Not every overweight person needs to hear about it from every person who loves them. What they need is to be loved for who they are, regardless of their weight, and not get shit about it all the time. It's so fucking condescending of people to presume that overweight people are ignorant and need their help. One might even say it's unrealistic, self-righteous, and arrogant.

Regarding being unhealthy, as someone else has already pointed out, there is no criticism of the people who are unhealthily underweight or those who aren't overweight but who have the exact same bad, unhealthy habits you say are the real criticism of the overweight people. I know this is true because I've spent most of my life underweight but with horrible eating and exercise habits, and all the while I've received nothing but affirmation from society. If I was thin and I met you in a bar and went on and on about how much I love chocolate and hate exercise, I doubt you'd have the same reaction as you had to this woman.

LikeAnOcean

People need to eat healthy not for how others percieve them, but for themselves.

Since people don't seem to have control, we probably need to go back to hunting and gathering, survival of the fittest to fix this. Man has become to detached from nature, and it will all eventually collapse...

Yes, I just read Ishmael.