Obesity only here in the USA ?

_

facepollution wrote:

There is so much decent, useful, not to mention free information out there to help people lose weight, so when people come out with rubbish like "diet's don't work" my sympathy kind of runs out.

facepollution wrote:

The truth is though that there comes a point when we all need a bit of a kick up the arse. Of course there are ways of saying things, but to me being truthful is the most respect you can give. I particularly think it's important with obesity since it can have such a profound effect on your health.

facepollution wrote:

And you say that she will find her way in her life, but many people spend their whole lives obese and die that way, which is sad, no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

facepollution wrote:

So if you had a friend who had a really destructive aspect to their life, you wouldn't want to actually help them? Empathy is all very well, but that alone isn't going to help them change their situation. Arguably the biggest problem these people have is that they don't have any real perspective on their problems.

I don’t think you’re giving this woman enough credit. Do you really think she doesn’t know that she is overweight and that this can have a profound effect on her health? She’s probably experiencing some of those effects already.

Do you really think what she needs to cure her of her “ignorance” is a bit of a kick up the arse from you or anyone else? Like if you tell her she’s fat she’ll suddenly go, “Oh, hey! I didn’t know that! Now I’m going to go change my life! Thank you so much for helping me!”? This could only be productive if she really had no idea that she was overweight, that being overweight is a health concern, and that there are things she can do about it. But of course she already knows these things. I think being understanding – not pointing out something she already knows – is the best respect and help one can give. And when you say “these people” don’t have any real perspective on their problems, I would suggest that that’s not at all understanding and is in fact disrespectful and that it’s you who doesn’t have any real perspective on their problems.

Of course she has perspective on her problems. She lives with them every moment of every day, in a way that she knows you don’t understand. When you talk about her saying diets don’t work and she loves chocolate and having big tits, what I hear from her is “I know you people are already judging me, from the moment you saw me, based solely on my appearance. I don’t feel understood and safe with you, so I’m just going to pretend I don’t care instead of letting you know how I really feel.” (This reminds me of a patient I once knew who told us she wanted an abortion because she didn’t want to ruin her new boob job but, when we persisted with expressing love and understanding, finally opened up with all sorts of profound insights about the situation, which really had nothing to do with her boob job.)

You say that many people spend their whole lives obese and die that way and that this is sad, but you might consider that being overweight is only one small part of who she is and her way (or lack thereof) in life. She could be thinking that you have lost your way in life. (Who among us hasn’t, really?) If she lives and dies as an obese woman with a tremendous capacity to love, and you live and die as a physically fit person who never learns the value of loving people other than those whom you have chosen to be close to, who has really lost their way and whose life is ultimately sad?

Just something to think about.

Thoughts_Arrive

Big boned, not fat.

Thoughts_Arrive

MayDay10 wrote:

^^^^ Like this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aimPRKfqKGw

Disturbing, very very disturbing.

pandora

facepollution wrote:

pandora wrote:

please facepollution do me one favor- reread my original post- then perhaps yours then my next etc.
I went back through and did so and I noticed your original post and so on used words to describe your encounter such as she rambled, didn't care, she wallowed in misery, you felt sorry for her, your sympathy ran out, a good kick in the arse, she was brash & loud, she spoke against medical arguments, empathy is fine BUT, there may be more
my point, sometimes we think we are compassionate, sometimes we are, sometimes compassion is tested, sometimes we are not able to be compassionate because we just don't feel the other person. Your opinion of this woman as many do for her everyday was formed the moment you met her. This is discrimination.
My original post only asks for no judging. That people deserve respect and I feel for this young woman who felt the need to defend who she was with a table full of other young people. I feel the situation speaks for itself.

Ok first of all you've completely ignored a load of the valid points I made in my last post. Secondly, I find it quite ironic that you claim you don't judge people and just want to know what it's really like to be in another person's shoes, yet you are quite happy to sit here and judge me, maybe I'm just not articulating what I feel properly, who knows, but according to you I MUST be descriminating.

I don't need your approval to tell me whether I'm compassionate or not. Just to clarify, I had met her before, when she wasn't drunk. I had no strong feelings at all, sure she was loud and obnoxious, but then so are many slim people, and so are some of my good friends for that matter. If she felt the need to sit and defend herself amongst a group of very passive and friendly people, who had not even broached the subject of weight/food/exercise then I fear that is unfortunately not something I have any control over.

Like I said, if you care about someone enough, you should be willing to forefit your own comfort in not rocking the boat, and actually try to help people, which requires some form of judgement. I couldn't honestly say I would be happy standing around while somebody I care about destroys their body, be it through eating too much, not eating enough, drugs, drink etc.

I have not been judging you and your valid points are for an argument that to me doesn't exist. There is no argument against showing another human being respect. There is no "but" for empathy. I have been trying not to be to blunt but I really do feel you quickly read through my original post all the time thinking about the fat girl you met who you did not like and I'm being mild with that because your words kind of show your disgust. And relating in this way to my original post you do not or can not acknowledge that in fact people including yourself discriminate against fat people and prejudge who they are by how they look.
My only point in all of this is do not attempt to change people, do not pity them, do not prejudge based on looks just open your heart. The words "try a little tenderness" keep coming into my head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dael4sb42nI

pandora

scb wrote:

facepollution wrote:

There is so much decent, useful, not to mention free information out there to help people lose weight, so when people come out with rubbish like "diet's don't work" my sympathy kind of runs out.

facepollution wrote:

The truth is though that there comes a point when we all need a bit of a kick up the arse. Of course there are ways of saying things, but to me being truthful is the most respect you can give. I particularly think it's important with obesity since it can have such a profound effect on your health.

facepollution wrote:

And you say that she will find her way in her life, but many people spend their whole lives obese and die that way, which is sad, no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

facepollution wrote:

So if you had a friend who had a really destructive aspect to their life, you wouldn't want to actually help them? Empathy is all very well, but that alone isn't going to help them change their situation. Arguably the biggest problem these people have is that they don't have any real perspective on their problems.

I don’t think you’re giving this woman enough credit. Do you really think she doesn’t know that she is overweight and that this can have a profound effect on her health? She’s probably experiencing some of those effects already.

Do you really think what she needs to cure her of her “ignorance” is a bit of a kick up the arse from you or anyone else? Like if you tell her she’s fat she’ll suddenly go, “Oh, hey! I didn’t know that! Now I’m going to go change my life! Thank you so much for helping me!”? This could only be productive if she really had no idea that she was overweight, that being overweight is a health concern, and that there are things she can do about it. But of course she already knows these things. I think being understanding – not pointing out something she already knows – is the best respect and help one can give. And when you say “these people” don’t have any real perspective on their problems, I would suggest that that’s not at all understanding and is in fact disrespectful and that it’s you who doesn’t have any real perspective on their problems.

Of course she has perspective on her problems. She lives with them every moment of every day, in a way that she knows you don’t understand. When you talk about her saying diets don’t work and she loves chocolate and having big tits, what I hear from her is “I know you people are already judging me, from the moment you saw me, based solely on my appearance. I don’t feel understood and safe with you, so I’m just going to pretend I don’t care instead of letting you know how I really feel.” (This reminds me of a patient I once knew who told us she wanted an abortion because she didn’t want to ruin her new boob job but, when we persisted with expressing love and understanding, finally opened up with all sorts of profound insights about the situation, which really had nothing to do with her boob job.)

You say that many people spend their whole lives obese and die that way and that this is sad, but you might consider that being overweight is only one small part of who she is and her way (or lack thereof) in life. She could be thinking that you have lost your way in life. (Who among us hasn’t, really?) If she lives and dies as an obese woman with a tremendous capacity to love, and you live and die as a physically fit person who never learns the value of loving people other than those whom you have chosen to be close to, who has really lost their way and whose life is ultimately sad?

Just something to think about.

your $.02 worth is as precious as gold. Wonderful sentiment, caring thoughts and unlimited insight. Thank you for sharing.

nuffingman

Hey, I've lost 25lbs since Christmas and I can now see my cock.

Obesity is a bigger problem in the UK than alcoholism and smoking but where are the health warnings on McDs dog burgers? I agree with the comments about the Italians and you don't see too many fat Frenchies. The US is the place for the really large though, I couldn't believe the size of some on my last visit. It's hardly surprising with $10 all you can eat!

facepollution

scb wrote:

Do you really think what she needs to cure her of her “ignorance” is a bit of a kick up the arse from you or anyone else? Like if you tell her she’s fat she’ll suddenly go, “Oh, hey! I didn’t know that! Now I’m going to go change my life! Thank you so much for helping me!”? This could only be productive if she really had no idea that she was overweight, that being overweight is a health concern, and that there are things she can do about it. But of course she already knows these things. I think being understanding – not pointing out something she already knows – is the best respect and help one can give. And when you say “these people” don’t have any real perspective on their problems, I would suggest that that’s not at all understanding and is in fact disrespectful and that it’s you who doesn’t have any real perspective on their problems.

Argh where to start?

Some people genuinely don't have a clue about nutrition and what it takes to maintain a healthy body. My point about ignorance, was the fact that she had tried all these diets and they hadn't worked. I see plenty of people at work who claim to be on diets, and they are eating exactly the opposite foods that they should be if they want to lose weight. Now as a caring person should I tell them where they are going wrong, or should I not judge and just let them keep failing?

I know only too well how easy it is to lose perspective on your problems - we all have them. A classic symptom of an addiction is denial, how are you ever going to gain perspective without an outsider helping you in some way to see that things don't have to be that way?

scb wrote:

If she lives and dies as an obese woman with a tremendous capacity to love, and you live and die as a physically fit person who never learns the value of loving people other than those whom you have chosen to be close to, who has really lost their way and whose life is ultimately sad?

How do you know she has a tremendous capacity to love? She might not. And what's to say I don't have a tremendous capacity to love? I might have. I'd say I have a pretty big cross-section of friends, of all shapes and sizes and personality types, I choose to be close to them because I like and accept them for who they are - that doesn't however stop me being concerned for them when they're doing things to fuck themselves up; but each situation is different, sometimes people need you to be honest with them, and ultimatley like I said before, I think being truthful is the most respect you can give a person.

facepollution

pandora wrote:

I have not been judging you and your valid points are for an argument that to me doesn't exist. There is no argument against showing another human being respect. There is no "but" for empathy. I have been trying not to be to blunt but I really do feel you quickly read through my original post all the time thinking about the fat girl you met who you did not like and I'm being mild with that because your words kind of show your disgust. And relating in this way to my original post you do not or can not acknowledge that in fact people including yourself discriminate against fat people and prejudge who they are by how they look.
My only point in all of this is do not attempt to change people, do not pity them, do not prejudge based on looks just open your heart. The words "try a little tenderness" keep coming into my head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dael4sb42nI

Absolute rubbish, you are judging me as someone who discriminates, when you have never even met me, all you have are my views on something which is obviously a very emotive subject for you, to which we disagree. This isn't a right and wrong situation, there are many gray areas, and I think it's ignorant to say otherwise, particularly as you weren't there to have experienced the situation.

I did not pre-judge her on her looks, I judged her on her actions. I'm not blind, so clearly I had acknowledged her size when I first met her, but then I see a lot of over-weight people, so that was nothing new to me. I judged her because she came and hi-jacked the conversation for an hour, and would have felt she was obnoxious and rambling if she was thin and had came and disrupted a night out. I have plenty of friends who are over-weight and we get along just fine. Hell, my own parents are over-weight, and I do everything I can to try and support them in trying to lose a few pounds, but I can see first hand how apathetic they are to losing weight, they can't always be bothered to cook healthy food, and they enjoy treating themselves with food and drink. People over-eat for a variety of reasons, it doesn't always have to be related to deep emotional issues, sometimes it's purely down to boredom.

I appreciate you try to see the best in everyone, and I honestly do agree to some extent, but at times it's just not realistic. Are you friends with everyone you meet? Do you never get annoyed when someone is rude to you? Everyone makes judgements when we meet people, be they favourable or less so, and of course these can vary in their intensity. To suggest otherwise is just sanctimony in the extreme.

pandora

facepollution wrote:

pandora wrote:

I have not been judging you and your valid points are for an argument that to me doesn't exist. There is no argument against showing another human being respect. There is no "but" for empathy. I have been trying not to be to blunt but I really do feel you quickly read through my original post all the time thinking about the fat girl you met who you did not like and I'm being mild with that because your words kind of show your disgust. And relating in this way to my original post you do not or can not acknowledge that in fact people including yourself discriminate against fat people and prejudge who they are by how they look.
My only point in all of this is do not attempt to change people, do not pity them, do not prejudge based on looks just open your heart. The words "try a little tenderness" keep coming into my head
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dael4sb42nI

Absolute rubbish, you are judging me as someone who discriminates, when you have never even met me, all you have are my views on something which is obviously a very emotive subject for you, to which we disagree. This isn't a right and wrong situation, there are many gray areas, and I think it's ignorant to say otherwise, particularly as you weren't there to have experienced the situation.

I did not pre-judge her on her looks, I judged her on her actions. I'm not blind, so clearly I had acknowledged her size when I first met her, but then I see a lot of over-weight people, so that was nothing new to me. I judged her because she came and hi-jacked the conversation for an hour, and would have felt she was obnoxious and rambling if she was thin and had came and disrupted a night out. I have plenty of friends who are over-weight and we get along just fine. Hell, my own parents are over-weight, and I do everything I can to try and support them in trying to lose a few pounds, but I can see first hand how apathetic they are to losing weight, they can't always be bothered to cook healthy food, and they enjoy treating themselves with food and drink. People over-eat for a variety of reasons, it doesn't always have to be related to deep emotional issues, sometimes it's purely down to boredom.

I appreciate you try to see the best in everyone, and I honestly do agree to some extent, but at times it's just not realistic. Are you friends with everyone you meet? Do you never get annoyed when someone is rude to you? Everyone makes judgements when we meet people, be they favourable or less so, and of course these can vary in their intensity. To suggest otherwise is just sanctimony in the extreme.

You didn't tell me if you liked the song I posted for you. I thought it pretty much closed the issue.
Tenderness is a lovely word. So is Smile.
We are all a work in progress but to answer your couple of questions. I happen to think it is realistic to see the best in everyone. It is what we all want for ourselves so its what we must do for others. Yes, I like everyone I meet. No I don't, I quietly say to myself forgive them for they know not what they do. I had some experiences as of late that have opened my heart and I am as I said a work in progress but no I am not judging people anymore. It is wrong. I want to treat others always the way I want to be treated. I am trying to live by the golden rule consciously every day. Our friendly conversation I have hoped will help us both.

facepollution

pandora wrote:

You didn't tell me if you liked the song I posted for you. I thought it pretty much closed the issue.
Tenderness is a lovely word. So is Smile.
We are all a work in progress but to answer your couple of questions. I happen to think it is realistic to see the best in everyone. It is what we all want for ourselves so its what we must do for others. Yes, I like everyone I meet. No I don't, I quietly say to myself forgive them for they know not what they do. I had some experiences as of late that have opened my heart and I am as I said a work in progress but no I am not judging people anymore. It is wrong. I want to treat others always the way I want to be treated. I am trying to live by the golden rule consciously every day. Our friendly conversation I have hoped will help us both.

well of course I liked the song, it's Otis Redding!!!!

I think sometimes the best might not amount to much though, and sometimes it doesn't out weigh the bad in a person, like in paedophiles and serial killers. Like I said before, I have compassion for that lost child inside them who didn't choose to have an awful upbringing, and for that reason alone I am against the death penalty. In fact I remember when I was about twelve, hearing on the radio about a convicted killer who was going to be executed the next day, and I was absolutely distraught because all I could keep thinking was that this guy probably had a family and friends who cared about him and how much they would suffer losing him. You can probably imagine the state I was in after watching Dead Man Walking - I don't think I've watched it again since.

haffajappa

if you think of food as being like heroin, it might be easier to understand how people might get ginormous.
i'd say i have really bad will power... so i understand why people might not be able to turn away from some foods..

some people really are HUGE though, and don't admit they have a problem.
my mom has a good friend like this - her husband kind of encourages it because he just tells her he "likes women with a little meat on their bones". Little is an understatement, she can't fit into chairs with armrests.

pandora

facepollution wrote:

pandora wrote:

You didn't tell me if you liked the song I posted for you. I thought it pretty much closed the issue.
Tenderness is a lovely word. So is Smile.
We are all a work in progress but to answer your couple of questions. I happen to think it is realistic to see the best in everyone. It is what we all want for ourselves so its what we must do for others. Yes, I like everyone I meet. No I don't, I quietly say to myself forgive them for they know not what they do. I had some experiences as of late that have opened my heart and I am as I said a work in progress but no I am not judging people anymore. It is wrong. I want to treat others always the way I want to be treated. I am trying to live by the golden rule consciously every day. Our friendly conversation I have hoped will help us both.

well of course I liked the song, it's Otis Redding!!!!

I think sometimes the best might not amount to much though, and sometimes it doesn't out weigh the bad in a person, like in paedophiles and serial killers. Like I said before, I have compassion for that lost child inside them who didn't choose to have an awful upbringing, and for that reason alone I am against the death penalty. In fact I remember when I was about twelve, hearing on the radio about a convicted killer who was going to be executed the next day, and I was absolutely distraught because all I could keep thinking was that this guy probably had a family and friends who cared about him and how much they would suffer losing him. You can probably imagine the state I was in after watching Dead Man Walking - I don't think I've watched it again since.

I don't support the death penalty either for the same reason basically. I didn't see that movie even with the Eddie connection- I thought it to upsetting also. Yes Otis Redding I love him so. I really like the version of the song from the Duets movie too sung by Paul Giamatti and Andre Braugher this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0kpA9gNB4Q- if you haven't seen the movie you may like it. Andre does an unbelievable Freebird at the end no matter how often I see it I always cry, its a very sad ending. "Lord knows I can not change" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOG-guq8 ... re=related Well just thought I'd share.

Lizardjam

haffajappa wrote:

if you think of food as being like heroin, it might be easier to understand how people might get ginormous.
i'd say i have really bad will power... so i understand why people might not be able to turn away from some foods..

some people really are HUGE though, and don't admit they have a problem.
my mom has a good friend like this - her husband kind of encourages it because he just tells her he "likes women with a little meat on their bones". Little is an understatement, she can't fit into chairs with armrests.

I agree. It's hard to say no sometimes to foods we like and taste good but are crap. I didn't read this whole thread...i read where people are blaming anyone but themselves for being fat...which is crap. Decide to eat better and you can gradually change your eating and lose the weight. I have made that change...slowly but surely over the last two months and have lost 15 pounds. I lived on fast food and junk. I didn't think I could go a day without it. You know what? I can, and I did. I didn't blame McDonald's for offering me McNuggets and my inability to say no. I hate that reasoning.

Grow up and take responsibility.

Yeah Americans are the fattest. It's easier and cheaper to eat crap. It's still not the "man's" fault. It's still a daily choice.

facepollution

pandora wrote:

I really like the version of the song from the Duets movie too sung by Paul Giamatti and Andre Braugher this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0kpA9gNB4Q- if you haven't seen the movie you may like it. Andre does an unbelievable Freebird at the end no matter how often I see it I always cry, its a very sad ending. "Lord knows I can not change" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOG-guq8 ... re=related Well just thought I'd share.

Not seen that film, but enjoyed both those videos, that guy Andre has an amazing voice, and Free Bird acapella - very nice!

The Juggler

neilybabes86 wrote:

this is why new york is looking to pass the soda tax

no it's not. it's just an excuse for ny liberals to rape its citizens more.

philly dems are trying to do the same thing.

RW81233

Lizardjam wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

if you think of food as being like heroin, it might be easier to understand how people might get ginormous.
i'd say i have really bad will power... so i understand why people might not be able to turn away from some foods..

some people really are HUGE though, and don't admit they have a problem.
my mom has a good friend like this - her husband kind of encourages it because he just tells her he "likes women with a little meat on their bones". Little is an understatement, she can't fit into chairs with armrests.

I agree. It's hard to say no sometimes to foods we like and taste good but are crap. I didn't read this whole thread...i read where people are blaming anyone but themselves for being fat...which is crap. Decide to eat better and you can gradually change your eating and lose the weight. I have made that change...slowly but surely over the last two months and have lost 15 pounds. I lived on fast food and junk. I didn't think I could go a day without it. You know what? I can, and I did. I didn't blame McDonald's for offering me McNuggets and my inability to say no. I hate that reasoning.

Grow up and take responsibility.

Yeah Americans are the fattest. It's easier and cheaper to eat crap. It's still not the "man's" fault. It's still a daily choice.

Ahhh...American's and their funny philosophy of "free choice"...what choice do you have that is actually "free" of any constraints (money, time, etc.). To make a moral judgment based on an individual's size is just silly. Besides for most age ranges it's more unhealthy to be "underweight" than "overweight", why aren't there any threads on how disgusting thin people are and asking about why they can't eat more.

chadwick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D99n9f3vU4

facepollution

RW81233 wrote:

why aren't there any threads on how disgusting thin people are and asking about why they can't eat more.

Perhaps because purposeful under-eating is considered an eating disorder, whereas over-eating can be due to many different factors. Some people's over-eating may be due to emotional triggers, whilst some people lack the motivation to learn how to eat a more healthy diet, and others are just plain bored. I think it's for this reason that over-eating is not really defined as an eating disorder, despite in some cases sharing many common aspects as accepted eating disorders.

If an over-weight person ate an appropriate number of calories in relation to the calories they burn in a day, and of the right foods, the vast majority would be able to lose weight. The same is not necessarily true for people who are naturally extremely lean. I have a friend who eats whatever he likes and drinks loads of beer and is still tiny, the tops of his arms are as skinny as my wrists. I'm not sure there is really a lot he can do about that, other than eat stupidly huge amounts of calories. It's not necessarily that these people are defying the laws of thermo-dynamics or anything, it's just that their bodies use up a lot more energy than most people's do.

josevolution

RW81233 wrote:

Lizardjam wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

if you think of food as being like heroin, it might be easier to understand how people might get ginormous.
i'd say i have really bad will power... so i understand why people might not be able to turn away from some foods..

some people really are HUGE though, and don't admit they have a problem.
my mom has a good friend like this - her husband kind of encourages it because he just tells her he "likes women with a little meat on their bones". Little is an understatement, she can't fit into chairs with armrests.

I agree. It's hard to say no sometimes to foods we like and taste good but are crap. I didn't read this whole thread...i read where people are blaming anyone but themselves for being fat...which is crap. Decide to eat better and you can gradually change your eating and lose the weight. I have made that change...slowly but surely over the last two months and have lost 15 pounds. I lived on fast food and junk. I didn't think I could go a day without it. You know what? I can, and I did. I didn't blame McDonald's for offering me McNuggets and my inability to say no. I hate that reasoning.

Grow up and take responsibility.

Yeah Americans are the fattest. It's easier and cheaper to eat crap. It's still not the "man's" fault. It's still a daily choice.

Ahhh...American's and their funny philosophy of "free choice"...what choice do you have that is actually "free" of any constraints (money, time, etc.). To make a moral judgment based on an individual's size is just silly. Besides for most age ranges it's more unhealthy to be "underweight" than "overweight", why aren't there any threads on how disgusting thin people are and asking about why they can't eat more.

Go ahead and start one , i was making an observation thread because i was just in Italy ...

pandora

I want a little of that "unexplained weight loss" in my lifetime. I know its often listed as a symptom of a dreaded disease but whatever
and I always think 'unexplained weight loss and this is a bad thing?" sounds pretty good to me. Can you image getting on a scale just once and have it say 10lbs lighter for no apparent reason, thats like a dream come true!