I still find the irony that in one of the debates and one of Obama's talking points was that McCain was going to tax your insurance coverage for the first time and that he wouldn't do it. And now he's doing it and no one's called him out on it.
It was the Senate Finance Committee that introduced the excise tax, not the President. Blame Max Baucus, Chuck Grassley, and the rest of those numbnuts, including Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, and Joe Lieberman. The House bill didn't have it, and without the reconciliation bill that ameliorated the tax the House wouldn't have voted for the Senate bill to begin with.
Not to mention the obstructionist Republicans who forced a filibuster on everything.
It doesn't matter if you, me, or the pope came up with the tax. If it stays in the bill and it becomes law under the president's watch, it becomes part of the president's legacy.
and no federal funding for abortion, so it will not be used as birth control on taxpayer dollars..
Why, oh why, did you have to go and throw that in there? That's the way it was before anyway.
i did that to show the conservatives that their voices were heard and that they got their way on that one...i am not in favor of that provision denying them btw...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
and no federal funding for abortion, so it will not be used as birth control on taxpayer dollars..
Why, oh why, did you have to go and throw that in there? That's the way it was before anyway.
i did that to show the conservatives that their voices were heard and that they got their way on that one...i am not in favor of that provision denying them btw...
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months.
Another finding that has remained constant is that the intensity is stronger among those who oppose the plan. The latest findings include 26% who Strongly Favor the plan and 45% who Strongly Oppose it.
And this:
Still, 50% of all voters say they’re less likely to vote this November to reelect a member of Congress who votes for the health care plan.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
It might be the Democrats' Waterloo. We'll see what happens at the ballotbox.
i am not so sure about that. i think anyone with a pulse that has been paying any sort of attention knows that republicans have opposed EVERY single thing obama and the dems have tried to do for no other reason than what appears to be "just because"...if obama's base does not desert him i think that the dems hold both houses in november...
Well, I said "might" .... The majority of Americans were against this bill, rightly or wrongly. I don't think there's any doubting that. It will be up to the Democrats on the block this November to convince the people of what you just said in order to hold their seats.
The fact that none of this takes affect until, like 2050 or whatever, I think hurts the Democrats. They won't be able to run on, "See, it wasn't as bad as you thought." They'll have to run on, "Hey, you know that thing we all voted for against your will in March ... it will probably work out ... we swear."
"Bear with us, it will probably be OK," has never really worked as a campaign slogan with Americans.
Seriously you are so very uninformed
First some of the changes are immediate, some take affect in 2014 and others in 2018... not 2050... phasing the changes in is the only way, it has to be a slow process
second the majority of Americans are not against the bill, last stats I heard was that it was split even about 40/40 with the rest undecided
so stop stating your opinion or short sided view as fact
I am 32. A non-smoker. Married with one child. I get OK insurance (Humana) through my job for my entire family.
I would like for someone to explain to me, in real terms, what this health care bill will mean to me. Bottom line. No bullshit.
Am I taxed more? Does my access to health care diminish? If I need any operation short of a quadruple bypass, do I have to rot on a waiting list? Is my name on one of these "death panel" lists I've heard so much about? (I'm kidding about the last one).
In all seriousness, someone please tell me what to expect. And please try to keep the partisan bullshit to a minimum. The reason I don't know what to expect is because both sides have been slinging it back and forth hot and heavy for a year now.
you won't see much changes at all unless you or your family get sick
your premiums will stay constant and I suspect with that wages in this county will go up
there will be more competition among insurance plans across state lines
the words preexisting conditions will no longer exist
if you and your wife, if married, make over 250K will see an increase in taxes
and you will have the same access to treatment you have now, you will not rot on any waiting list, if you need surgery you will get it. Things will not get worse they will get better and more people will be covered.
I still find the irony that in one of the debates and one of Obama's talking points was that McCain was going to tax your insurance coverage for the first time and that he wouldn't do it. And now he's doing it and no one's called him out on it.
It was the Senate Finance Committee that introduced the excise tax, not the President. Blame Max Baucus, Chuck Grassley, and the rest of those numbnuts, including Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, and Joe Lieberman. The House bill didn't have it, and without the reconciliation bill that ameliorated the tax the House wouldn't have voted for the Senate bill to begin with.
Not to mention the obstructionist Republicans who forced a filibuster on everything.
It doesn't matter if you, me, or the pope came up with the tax. If it stays in the bill and it becomes law under the president's watch, it becomes part of the president's legacy.
I disagree. It's not the President's job to write legislation: that's Congress' job. Moreover, as much as I would have liked him to have campaigned more strongly for more progressive components, he wasn't going to veto the law because of the tax. And finally, in 20 years, nobody will remember the excise tax, but people will remember that Obama signed the first sweeping comprehensive health reform bill ever.
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
I better not hear one damn complaint about this bill from anyone that voted for Obama.
The only good thing about this bill is no more denying pre existing conditions.
We will see more jobs being lost because employers will have to pay a fine if they can't afford the amount of INS that the bill says it had to provide. So if you think a company is going to pay a fine rather than let you go you better wake up.
And for those of you that don't think this bill goes far enough.When is enough enough? The IRS is going to be increased by somthing like 15,000 more agents and they will be checking on you every month to make sure you have the amount of INS that the gov says you have to have or you will be fined a minimum of $750 or face prosicution.
Like I said"I hope all you that voted for this peice of shit are happy. Thank you for ruining this county. At least we have some state attorney generals that are prepaired to fight the the parts of the bill that are un constituional.
I better not hear one damn complaint about this bill from anyone that voted for Obama.
The only good thing about this bill is no more denying pre existing conditions.
We will see more jobs being lost because employers will have to pay a fine if they can't afford the amount of INS that the bill says it had to provide. So if you think a company is going to pay a fine rather than let you go you better wake up.
And for those of you that don't think this bill goes far enough.When is enough enough? The IRS is going to be increased by somthing like 15,000 more agents and they will be checking on you every month to make sure you have the amount of INS that the gov says you have to have or you will be fined a minimum of $750 or face prosicution.
Like I said"I hope all you that voted for this peice of shit are happy. Thank you for ruining this county. At least we have some state attorney generals that are prepaired to fight the the parts of the bill that are un constituional.
We will see more jobs being lost because employers will have to pay a fine if they can't afford the amount of INS that the bill says it had to provide.
If an employer can't afford INS then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
We will see more jobs being lost because employers will have to pay a fine if they can't afford the amount of INS that the bill says it had to provide.
If an employer can't afford INS then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
so employers can't afford insurance, citizens can't afford insurance....unless pre existing conditions are excluded and the ability to deny claims at whim are allowed. ??
so nobody can get healthcare I guess. ??
Yeah this is a good system that shouldn't be changed....
We will see more jobs being lost because employers will have to pay a fine if they can't afford the amount of INS that the bill says it had to provide.
If an employer can't afford INS then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
so employers can't afford insurance, citizens can't afford insurance....unless pre existing conditions and the ability to deny claims at whim are allowed. ??
so nobody can get healthcare I guess. ??
Yeah this is a good system that shouldn't be changed....
Nice post. I really shouldn't laugh. It's just so painfully pathetic. I can't believe how much stupidity this health care debate has exposed. At least I'm getting some amusement.
And finally, in 20 years, nobody will remember the excise tax, but people will remember that Obama signed the first sweeping comprehensive health reform bill ever.
I am curious since this was getting a bit of coverage on the Canadian radio stations I was listening to this morning. They kept saying it was the biggest health care reform in the US in 50 years. My question is what happened 50 years ago?
And finally, in 20 years, nobody will remember the excise tax, but people will remember that Obama signed the first sweeping comprehensive health reform bill ever.
I am curious since this was getting a bit of coverage on the Canadian radio stations I was listening to this morning. They kept saying it was the biggest health care reform in the US in 50 years. My question is what happened 50 years ago?
First some of the changes are immediate, some take affect in 2014 and others in 2018... not 2050... phasing the changes in is the only way, it has to be a slow process
second the majority of Americans are not against the bill, last stats I heard was that it was split even about 40/40 with the rest undecided
so stop stating your opinion or short sided view as fact
Dude ... stop treating me like Sean Hannity. I'm on your side. Or could be. I just have some questions that need to be answered before I'm fully on board. Fuck.
Secondly, the polls I cited were taken less than 24 hours before the vote. So I'm not sure how the "last stats you heard" could be any more recent than that. I haven't seen a single poll in the past several months -- not one -- that suggested the majority of Americans are for this. Even the Democrats who voted for it know that.
That's not to say it shouldn't have passed anyway. It could be that the majority of people who are against it are misguided, and don't know what's in the bill, or how it will benefit them. Maybe this really is an example of the government knowing what's good for its constituents. I'm not discounting that at all.
You asked where I got my numbers from. I gave you one example, from a reputable poll company, and your response is, "Well, that's not what I heard. You're misinformed."
Goddamn this site is full of jerks sometimes.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
This from a more recent poll, taken by CBS during Sunday's vote:
As has been the case throughout the health care debate, more Americans think the reform bill will hurt them (35 percent) than say it will help them personally (20 percent).
Again, I'm not saying neccesarily I'm against the bill. I don't really know how I feel. But, judging by the polls, MOST Americans are, and that could hurt the Democrats in the November elections. Especially those serving in more conservative districts.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
This from a more recent poll, taken by CBS during Sunday's vote:
As has been the case throughout the health care debate, more Americans think the reform bill will hurt them (35 percent) than say it will help them personally (20 percent).
Again, I'm not saying neccesarily I'm against the bill. I don't really know how I feel. But, judging by the polls, MOST Americans are, and that could hurt the Democrats in the November elections. Especially those serving in more conservative districts.
Is it something more like this image....
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
So when the company I work for, a smaller business, decides to no longer offer the employees healthcare coverage, what happens to me?
Again, I might be misinformed ... but I'm pretty sure this bill forces your company to offer you affordable insurance, or else be fined $20,000 per employee or something like that.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
So when the company I work for, a smaller business, decides to no longer offer the employees healthcare coverage, what happens to me?
Again, I might be misinformed ... but I'm pretty sure this bill forces your company to offer you affordable insurance, or else be fined $20,000 per employee or something like that.
* Starting in 2014, businesses with more than 50 employees will be required to either offer healthcare coverage or pay a penalty of $750 a year per full-time worker. The coverage offered will also have to meet minimum benefits -- covering both a specific set of services and 60% of employee health costs overall -- or else employers will face additional penalties
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
So when the company I work for, a smaller business, decides to no longer offer the employees healthcare coverage, what happens to me?
Again, I might be misinformed ... but I'm pretty sure this bill forces your company to offer you affordable insurance, or else be fined $20,000 per employee or something like that.
* Starting in 2014, businesses with more than 50 employees will be required to either offer healthcare coverage or pay a penalty of $750 a year per full-time worker. The coverage offered will also have to meet minimum benefits -- covering both a specific set of services and 60% of employee health costs overall -- or else employers will face additional penalties
It's cheaper to pay the fines.
The other thing I see happening...a lot of companies with 49 employees and a bunch of contract labor.
i just see the Greek news about the voting...i watch in the past the moor movie...and my question is this..all this years this powerfull ,big country let those poor people die???u couldnt do a surgery couse u didnt have insurance???this is crazy,,we are a small,poor country and health is free for all..if u are rich u can go ofcource in private clinic where are more luxury....the only bad is that in public hospital u give some extra to the doctor,,is a traditional way here to thank the doctor for treat u well..,,really is unbeliavable
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
i just see the Greek news about the voting...i watch in the past the moor movie...and my question is this..all this years this powerfull ,big country let those poor people die???u couldnt do a surgery couse u didnt have insurance???this is crazy,,we are a small,poor country and health is free for all..if u are rich u can go ofcource in private clinic where are more luxury....the only bad is that in public hospital u give some extra to the doctor,,is a traditional way here to thank the doctor for treat u well..,,really is unbeliavable
Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.
Don't let your view of America be influenced by Michael Moore. Please.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Comments
It doesn't matter if you, me, or the pope came up with the tax. If it stays in the bill and it becomes law under the president's watch, it becomes part of the president's legacy.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
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- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Well, alright then....
for the least they could possibly do
Seriously you are so very uninformed
First some of the changes are immediate, some take affect in 2014 and others in 2018... not 2050... phasing the changes in is the only way, it has to be a slow process
second the majority of Americans are not against the bill, last stats I heard was that it was split even about 40/40 with the rest undecided
so stop stating your opinion or short sided view as fact
you won't see much changes at all unless you or your family get sick
your premiums will stay constant and I suspect with that wages in this county will go up
there will be more competition among insurance plans across state lines
the words preexisting conditions will no longer exist
if you and your wife, if married, make over 250K will see an increase in taxes
and you will have the same access to treatment you have now, you will not rot on any waiting list, if you need surgery you will get it. Things will not get worse they will get better and more people will be covered.
I disagree. It's not the President's job to write legislation: that's Congress' job. Moreover, as much as I would have liked him to have campaigned more strongly for more progressive components, he wasn't going to veto the law because of the tax. And finally, in 20 years, nobody will remember the excise tax, but people will remember that Obama signed the first sweeping comprehensive health reform bill ever.
The only good thing about this bill is no more denying pre existing conditions.
We will see more jobs being lost because employers will have to pay a fine if they can't afford the amount of INS that the bill says it had to provide. So if you think a company is going to pay a fine rather than let you go you better wake up.
And for those of you that don't think this bill goes far enough.When is enough enough? The IRS is going to be increased by somthing like 15,000 more agents and they will be checking on you every month to make sure you have the amount of INS that the gov says you have to have or you will be fined a minimum of $750 or face prosicution.
Like I said"I hope all you that voted for this peice of shit are happy. Thank you for ruining this county. At least we have some state attorney generals that are prepaired to fight the the parts of the bill that are un constituional.
If an employer can't afford INS then they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
so employers can't afford insurance, citizens can't afford insurance....unless pre existing conditions are excluded and the ability to deny claims at whim are allowed. ??
so nobody can get healthcare I guess. ??
Yeah this is a good system that shouldn't be changed....
Nice post. I really shouldn't laugh. It's just so painfully pathetic. I can't believe how much stupidity this health care debate has exposed. At least I'm getting some amusement.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-0 ... ound-.html
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I am curious since this was getting a bit of coverage on the Canadian radio stations I was listening to this morning. They kept saying it was the biggest health care reform in the US in 50 years. My question is what happened 50 years ago?
1965 was medicare passed
Dude ... stop treating me like Sean Hannity. I'm on your side. Or could be. I just have some questions that need to be answered before I'm fully on board. Fuck.
Secondly, the polls I cited were taken less than 24 hours before the vote. So I'm not sure how the "last stats you heard" could be any more recent than that. I haven't seen a single poll in the past several months -- not one -- that suggested the majority of Americans are for this. Even the Democrats who voted for it know that.
That's not to say it shouldn't have passed anyway. It could be that the majority of people who are against it are misguided, and don't know what's in the bill, or how it will benefit them. Maybe this really is an example of the government knowing what's good for its constituents. I'm not discounting that at all.
You asked where I got my numbers from. I gave you one example, from a reputable poll company, and your response is, "Well, that's not what I heard. You're misinformed."
Goddamn this site is full of jerks sometimes.
for the least they could possibly do
Again, I'm not saying neccesarily I'm against the bill. I don't really know how I feel. But, judging by the polls, MOST Americans are, and that could hurt the Democrats in the November elections. Especially those serving in more conservative districts.
for the least they could possibly do
you've been screwed for a long time dude ...
Is it something more like this image....
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Again, I might be misinformed ... but I'm pretty sure this bill forces your company to offer you affordable insurance, or else be fined $20,000 per employee or something like that.
for the least they could possibly do
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
It's cheaper to pay the fines.
The other thing I see happening...a lot of companies with 49 employees and a bunch of contract labor.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.
Don't let your view of America be influenced by Michael Moore. Please.
for the least they could possibly do
It is cheaper to pay the fines.....
Which means exactly what for me? If my company says "Fuck it, lets just pay the fines"....
I am now going to get my health coverage through the government? YIKES!!!! Is that correct?
What are my options???
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Good point. So I guess the real answer to Speedy's question is, the government fines Speedy for not having health insurance.
for the least they could possibly do