The other thing I see happening...a lot of companies with 49 employees and a bunch of contract labor.
EXACTLY...
It is cheaper to pay the fines.....
Which means exactly what for me? If my company says "Fuck it, lets just pay the fines"....
I am now going to get my health coverage through the government? YIKES!!!! Is that correct?
What are my options???
Well, I can't answer that for you. But, the flip side is there are already employers that offer no insurance to their employees and now they will have an option.
It's fairly obvious that something needed to be done about Health Care in the US, I'm leery as to if this bill is what we really needed though. But, I hope it proves to be the first step to good policy.
Not sure how a system that is based mostly on having employment, but will not cover "pre-existing procedures" if you go without coverage (ie lose your job, etc.) for a period of time.
You are probably right, but I would have to go out and get my own insurance, or face a $695 fine. Right?
According to the link Flagg posted ... if you are super, super poor, you would be eligible for Medicaid, free of charge. Other than that, you might be eligible for a government subsidy to help pay for part, but not all, of your insurance premium.
If you make more than $45,000 a year or so, though, you're basically shit out of luck. The government figures you can afford your own insurance at that point, and you HAVE to purchase it, or else face a fine.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
i just see the Greek news about the voting...i watch in the past the moor movie...and my question is this..all this years this powerfull ,big country let those poor people die???u couldnt do a surgery couse u didnt have insurance???this is crazy,,we are a small,poor country and health is free for all..if u are rich u can go ofcource in private clinic where are more luxury....the only bad is that in public hospital u give some extra to the doctor,,is a traditional way here to thank the doctor for treat u well..,,really is unbeliavable
Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.
Don't let your view of America be influenced by Michael Moore. Please.
i just see the news..i listen obama speak,,says 100 year took to make this ..there 35 millions that was poor and now are happy..and no republican vote and say that they are unhappy couse other will pay for that..my opinoin about america nothing to do with a moore film..i visit already,,i read history..and cant be an opinion for a country only for a heath issue
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
i just see the Greek news about the voting...i watch in the past the moor movie...and my question is this..all this years this powerfull ,big country let those poor people die???u couldnt do a surgery couse u didnt have insurance???this is crazy,,we are a small,poor country and health is free for all..if u are rich u can go ofcource in private clinic where are more luxury....the only bad is that in public hospital u give some extra to the doctor,,is a traditional way here to thank the doctor for treat u well..,,really is unbeliavable
Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.
Don't let your view of America be influenced by Michael Moore. Please.
i just see the news..i listen obama speak,,says 100 year took to make this ..there 35 millions that was poor and now are happy..and no republican vote and say that they are unhappy couse other will pay for that..my opinoin about america nothing to do with a moore film..i visit already,,i read history..and cant be an opinion for a country only for a heath issue
Fair enough. Just didn't want you to get the wrong idea about our health care system as is. It does need reforming, but it's not as if we were throwing poor people out on the street to die.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
You are probably right, but I would have to go out and get my own insurance, or face a $695 fine. Right?
According to the link Flagg posted ... if you are super, super poor, you would be eligible for Medicaid, free of charge. Other than that, you might be eligible for a government subsidy to help pay for part, but not all, of your insurance premium.
If you make more than $45,000 a year or so, though, you're basically shit out of luck. The government figures you can afford your own insurance at that point, and you HAVE to purchase it, or else face a fine.
So there ya go...
If my company decides to say "fuck it" and no longer offer health insurance, and pay the fines (which may be cheaper than them offering health insurance), I will be forced to get my own insurance. Right? Which could cost me and arm and a leg, right?
So for middle America, people who work for smaller businesses, who make $40-$50K a year, this may turn into nothing but a big fucking kick in the balls, right?
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
If my company decides to say "fuck it" and no longer offer health insurance, and pay the fines (which may be cheaper than them offering health insurance), I will be forced to get my own insurance. Right? Which could cost me and arm and a leg, right?
So for middle America, people who work for smaller businesses, who make $40-$50K a year, this may turn into nothing but a big fucking kick in the balls, right?
Depends. Are you a Native American? If so, you might be exempt. Your other option might be to join one of those crazy religions that doesn't believe in doctors. You might gain exemption that way, too.
In all seriousness, this is the one part of the bill I know I am against. Why on earth should it be mandatory to have health insurance? I think it should be a personal choice, with a caveat that, as with everything else on in this world, if you choose wrong it's your tough luck.
I don't believe in telling people how they have to spend their money.
Post edited by slightofjeff on
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
[
Fair enough. Just didn't want you to get the wrong idea about our health care system as is. It does need reforming, but it's not as if we were throwing poor people out on the street to die.
pearl jam are Americans..there was no way to hate USA..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
There will be no change to my health coverage, and I will not get a tax increase....
BULLSHIT!!! hehehehehehehehe
Ya wanna bet on that one???? hehehehehehehehehe
Nice to see you're in a good mood today hahahaha
Hey chrom??
Do me a favor, look at some of the points/questions I have asked in the last 2 pages. Then give me whatever info/answers you may have. Thanks
Basically, if your employer has over 50 employees (mine doesn't), they have to offer affordable, gov't required minimum health insurance. If not, they have to pay a fine per employee. And you are stuck looking for health insurance through a provider or most likely an exchange. The exchange will consist of a pool of people who work for a small business, own their own company, or are uninsured. This pool of people, should, help keep costs down. If you don't get insurance, you will have to pay a month fine. Not sure how that would work, do they garnish wages for the fine, if you have a job(don't think that's legal), maybe put a lien against property, but if no property of they incarcerate people. If that's the case, then you get free heathcare, meals and shelter.
This is your notice that there is a problem with your signature. Please remove it.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.
So if the tax payers are already paying for poor people to have required surgery (which is expensive) why not just pay for that person to have some free check-ups (which are much cheaper) so maybe they don't get to a point where they need expensive emergency surgery?
I have a strange feeling, in 4 years, I am going to be taking a beating..... hehehehehe
We will see....
2014 watch it go to fire???
Me too.. as it stands my current insurance plan would be considered a "cadillac" plan and the cost of the plan over a certain amount would be taxed as income....
This is your notice that there is a problem with your signature. Please remove it.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.
So if the tax payers are already paying for poor people to have required surgery (which is expensive) why not just pay for that person to have some free check-ups (which are much cheaper) so maybe they don't get to a point where they need expensive emergency surgery?
There are free clinics where people can go for free or low cost check ups and healthcare. However, most walk into an emergency room where they cannot be turned away for not having coverage.
This is your notice that there is a problem with your signature. Please remove it.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Nobody here is letting poor people die. If you need surgery and can't pay, you go to the hospital and get it anyway. The tab is essentially picked up by everybody else.
So if the tax payers are already paying for poor people to have required surgery (which is expensive) why not just pay for that person to have some free check-ups (which are much cheaper) so maybe they don't get to a point where they need expensive emergency surgery?
In principle, that sounds like a fine idea. I'm not against it. I'm not arguing against reform. I'm just letting our foreign friends know that our society isn't so heartless as to let people die just for being poor. It wasn't/isn't like that.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I have a strange feeling, in 4 years, I am going to be taking a beating..... hehehehehe
We will see....
2014 watch it go to fire???
Me too.. as it stands my current insurance plan would be considered a "cadillac" plan and the cost of the plan over a certain amount would be taxed as income....
I've heard this kvetching about "cadillac plans" ... I was under the impression the excise tax would only be on plans costing more that $27,000. Unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, I don't think your plan is that expensive.
But I'm more than willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I have a strange feeling, in 4 years, I am going to be taking a beating..... hehehehehe
We will see....
2014 watch it go to fire???
Me too.. as it stands my current insurance plan would be considered a "cadillac" plan and the cost of the plan over a certain amount would be taxed as income....
I've heard this kvetching about "cadillac plans" ... I was under the impression the excise tax would only be on plans costing more that $27,000. Unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, I don't think your plan is that expensive.
But I'm more than willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.
I believe that's the cost of a family plan, a single plan would be around $10,000 or about $800/month including employer and employee costs. I actually would be slightly below that threshold. But re-reading the legislation its funny to see the exemptions to that section... those who purchased thru AARP, those in a union, and those who have coverage through Blue Cross of Michigan.
This is your notice that there is a problem with your signature. Please remove it.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
where are you getting your poll numbers? according to usatoday and cnn over 72% want universal single payor system.
As fucked up as the Republicans are, I'd have to believe that if they felt 72% of the people actually wanted this, at least one of them would have voted for it.
There are many things in this bill that I don't like and some things I do. Like a lot of you I felt the old system was broken and unsustainable, but I don't think they passed the best possible fix. I think being able to shop across state lines (a McCain idea) should have been included. I also think we as a country should eliminate fee per service and pay doctors and nurses salaries at hospitals - high salaries because of what they do and the cost of education and you want to retain the best, but salaries.
To me, this was the best part of the bill:
INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS: Starting this year, insurers would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, and from canceling policies because someone gets sick. Parents would be able to keep older kids on their coverage up to age 26. A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion goes into high gear. Major consumer safeguards would also take effect in 2014. Insurers would be prohibited from denying coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more. Insurers could not charge women more.
Personally I don't trust insurance companies any more than I would trust a credit card bank, a tobacco company or OJ's defense attorneys.
I have a strange feeling, in 4 years, I am going to be taking a beating..... hehehehehe
We will see....
2014 watch it go to fire???
Me too.. as it stands my current insurance plan would be considered a "cadillac" plan and the cost of the plan over a certain amount would be taxed as income....
I've heard this kvetching about "cadillac plans" ... I was under the impression the excise tax would only be on plans costing more that $27,000. Unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, I don't think your plan is that expensive.
But I'm more than willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.
No. In fact the excise tax is slated to affect 40% of plans by 2019. Which is why the House was up in arms when the Senate bill included this provision. The House's version of healthcare had a small tax on households making over $500,000 a year. I don't know why middle class people are expected to pay for this while we can't tax the rich, who have had an easy time since Bush gave them a $1.3 trillion tax cut.
The reconciliation bill heading to the Senate would partially fix this - which is why the House voted for passage.
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
where are you getting your poll numbers? according to usatoday and cnn over 72% want universal single payor system.
As fucked up as the Republicans are, I'd have to believe that if they felt 72% of the people actually wanted this, at least one of them would have voted for it.
none of them voted for it because UHC was never an option and is not in the bill. the polls i refernenced were specific to universal single payer from about 10 days ago and many people opposed this bill because it was not strong enough and was not single payor. the GOP opposed it because that is their M.O.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
where are you getting your poll numbers? according to usatoday and cnn over 72% want universal single payor system.
As fucked up as the Republicans are, I'd have to believe that if they felt 72% of the people actually wanted this, at least one of them would have voted for it.
Since when have the Republicans actually given a flying fig about what the common people want?
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
so how is everyone's day going?? you know, with this being the first day of the end of the country and all since it was destroyed last night....i have to say, mine is the same as usual...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
I'm not sure the government is providing health insurance here. again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
for the least they could possibly do
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34609984/ns ... alth_care/
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
Well, I can't answer that for you. But, the flip side is there are already employers that offer no insurance to their employees and now they will have an option.
It's fairly obvious that something needed to be done about Health Care in the US, I'm leery as to if this bill is what we really needed though. But, I hope it proves to be the first step to good policy.
Not sure how a system that is based mostly on having employment, but will not cover "pre-existing procedures" if you go without coverage (ie lose your job, etc.) for a period of time.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
According to the link Flagg posted ... if you are super, super poor, you would be eligible for Medicaid, free of charge. Other than that, you might be eligible for a government subsidy to help pay for part, but not all, of your insurance premium.
If you make more than $45,000 a year or so, though, you're basically shit out of luck. The government figures you can afford your own insurance at that point, and you HAVE to purchase it, or else face a fine.
for the least they could possibly do
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Fair enough. Just didn't want you to get the wrong idea about our health care system as is. It does need reforming, but it's not as if we were throwing poor people out on the street to die.
for the least they could possibly do
If my company decides to say "fuck it" and no longer offer health insurance, and pay the fines (which may be cheaper than them offering health insurance), I will be forced to get my own insurance. Right? Which could cost me and arm and a leg, right?
So for middle America, people who work for smaller businesses, who make $40-$50K a year, this may turn into nothing but a big fucking kick in the balls, right?
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... id=topnews
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
Depends. Are you a Native American? If so, you might be exempt. Your other option might be to join one of those crazy religions that doesn't believe in doctors. You might gain exemption that way, too.
In all seriousness, this is the one part of the bill I know I am against. Why on earth should it be mandatory to have health insurance? I think it should be a personal choice, with a caveat that, as with everything else on in this world, if you choose wrong it's your tough luck.
I don't believe in telling people how they have to spend their money.
for the least they could possibly do
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... 03544.html
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
BULLSHIT!!! hehehehehehehehe
Ya wanna bet on that one???? hehehehehehehehehe
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Nice to see you're in a good mood today hahahaha
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Do me a favor, look at some of the points/questions I have asked in the last 2 pages. Then give me whatever info/answers you may have. Thanks
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Basically, if your employer has over 50 employees (mine doesn't), they have to offer affordable, gov't required minimum health insurance. If not, they have to pay a fine per employee. And you are stuck looking for health insurance through a provider or most likely an exchange. The exchange will consist of a pool of people who work for a small business, own their own company, or are uninsured. This pool of people, should, help keep costs down. If you don't get insurance, you will have to pay a month fine. Not sure how that would work, do they garnish wages for the fine, if you have a job(don't think that's legal), maybe put a lien against property, but if no property of they incarcerate people. If that's the case, then you get free heathcare, meals and shelter.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
I have a strange feeling, in 4 years, I am going to be taking a beating..... hehehehehe
We will see....
2014 watch it go to fire???
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
So if the tax payers are already paying for poor people to have required surgery (which is expensive) why not just pay for that person to have some free check-ups (which are much cheaper) so maybe they don't get to a point where they need expensive emergency surgery?
Me too.. as it stands my current insurance plan would be considered a "cadillac" plan and the cost of the plan over a certain amount would be taxed as income....
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
There are free clinics where people can go for free or low cost check ups and healthcare. However, most walk into an emergency room where they cannot be turned away for not having coverage.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
In principle, that sounds like a fine idea. I'm not against it. I'm not arguing against reform. I'm just letting our foreign friends know that our society isn't so heartless as to let people die just for being poor. It wasn't/isn't like that.
for the least they could possibly do
I've heard this kvetching about "cadillac plans" ... I was under the impression the excise tax would only be on plans costing more that $27,000. Unless you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, I don't think your plan is that expensive.
But I'm more than willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.
for the least they could possibly do
I believe that's the cost of a family plan, a single plan would be around $10,000 or about $800/month including employer and employee costs. I actually would be slightly below that threshold. But re-reading the legislation its funny to see the exemptions to that section... those who purchased thru AARP, those in a union, and those who have coverage through Blue Cross of Michigan.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
As fucked up as the Republicans are, I'd have to believe that if they felt 72% of the people actually wanted this, at least one of them would have voted for it.
To me, this was the best part of the bill:
INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS: Starting this year, insurers would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, and from canceling policies because someone gets sick. Parents would be able to keep older kids on their coverage up to age 26. A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion goes into high gear. Major consumer safeguards would also take effect in 2014. Insurers would be prohibited from denying coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more. Insurers could not charge women more.
Personally I don't trust insurance companies any more than I would trust a credit card bank, a tobacco company or OJ's defense attorneys.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
No. In fact the excise tax is slated to affect 40% of plans by 2019. Which is why the House was up in arms when the Senate bill included this provision. The House's version of healthcare had a small tax on households making over $500,000 a year. I don't know why middle class people are expected to pay for this while we can't tax the rich, who have had an easy time since Bush gave them a $1.3 trillion tax cut.
The reconciliation bill heading to the Senate would partially fix this - which is why the House voted for passage.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Since when have the Republicans actually given a flying fig about what the common people want?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."