9/11 loose change.

FiveB247x

Ryan - I'm not going to debate this issue with you, but have you even seen the show the other poster is referring too? I mean, seeing it will either disprove things you believe or strengthen your belief/facts in your favor or maybe even make you think of a few things you haven't previously seen/heard or thought of. This could be a generalization, but seems to me, many people in life are too quick to leave their minds open to the possibility of being proven wrong or even argued against on a particular issue or subject manner. Not saying you're not entitled to believe whatever you like, but the more details, facts and information on a subject a person has, the more it emboldens their opinion and proof of it. Just my 2 cents.

ryanevolution

What?! I am presenting physical facts. Which prove the point of controlled demolition. I am assessing no blame or guessing who is behind it, other than it was an inside job, and the official story is bullshit.

My science is physics. The building fell between 11 and 15 seconds. This ALONE proves the official story completely false, there is no way the floors pancaked and hit each other in a collapsing fashion. The core and floors were blown out.

You all on the other side simply talk garbage about theories of debating. Bring a single fact to the table.

FiveB247x

Not to be dismissive, but are you physicist or have real world experience in this field - enough to have a legitimate comment on the matter? Any joe schmoe can have an opinion and back it up with half-truthes or point to another person's comments (which I do know there are some in the field which back your claims and many on the other side who do not).. but do you specifically have experience to be so overly dismissive about a field and action which probably a great deal of us do not? I merely offered the option of hearing out further details and you automatically shot it down? What could further details and information do other than help find out the truth of what occurred?

ryanevolution wrote:

What?! I am presenting physical facts. Which prove the point of controlled demolition. I am assessing no blame or guessing who is behind it, other than it was an inside job, and the official story is bullshit.

My science is physics. The building fell between 11 and 15 seconds. This ALONE proves the official story completely false, there is no way the floors pancaked and hit each other in a collapsing fashion. The core and floors were blown out.

You all on the other side simply talk garbage about theories of debating. Bring a single fact to the table.

Cliffy6745

Dipshit, I have a bridge for sale if you are interested?

Meet Google

http://www.google.com

She can be your friend.

How about the pictures of workers cutting columns at an angle to control their fall? NOOOO. That cant be.

Cliffy6745

Will you at least admit your theories biggest advocates inculde Rosie O'Donnell, Charlie Sheen and a couple uneducated kids ? hahaha. Some brilliant minds.

Edit: I am really not getting back involved in this. Had a couple beers and this dude annoyed me. Is it also any surpise that someone that suscribes to these theories resorts to name calling in almost every post?

OnTheEdge

ryanevolution wrote:

What?! I am presenting physical facts. Which prove the point of controlled demolition. I am assessing no blame or guessing who is behind it, other than it was an inside job, and the official story is bullshit.

My science is physics. The building fell between 11 and 15 seconds. This ALONE proves the official story completely false, there is no way the floors pancaked and hit each other in a collapsing fashion. The core and floors were blown out.

You all on the other side simply talk garbage about theories of debating. Bring a single fact to the table.

How about the fact that there are 200+ people missing that went down in the PA field.
How about the fact that pilots reported they were being hijacked to the airport towers.
How about the fact that there is video after video of OUR planes hitting the buildings.
How about the fact that Osama is on video admitting to being responsible.
How about the fact that many people called their loved ones to tell them what was happening.
How about the fact that there were records found from Al Qaida terorists showing how they were planning this out.
How about the fact that your 9 second theory isn't even true.
How about the fact that Gitmo detainees never denied it or claim that your theory is reality.
How about the fact that many american families are missing their loved ones that were on them planes.

Your fact is based on how fast two buildings fell that were built exactly the same. How many years ago?

You tell me to stick my thumb up my ass for believing in common sense.....you are a freak. You simply want to try to blame our government because that seems exciting to you. Get a life.

gimmesometruth27

mb262200 wrote:

ryanevolution wrote:

What?! I am presenting physical facts. Which prove the point of controlled demolition. I am assessing no blame or guessing who is behind it, other than it was an inside job, and the official story is bullshit.

My science is physics. The building fell between 11 and 15 seconds. This ALONE proves the official story completely false, there is no way the floors pancaked and hit each other in a collapsing fashion. The core and floors were blown out.

You all on the other side simply talk garbage about theories of debating. Bring a single fact to the table.

How about the fact that there are 200+ people missing that went down in the PA field.
How about the fact that pilots reported they were being hijacked to the airport towers.
How about the fact that there is video after video of OUR planes hitting the buildings.
How about the fact that Osama is on video admitting to being responsible.
How about the fact that many people called their loved ones to tell them what was happening.
How about the fact that there were records found from Al Qaida terorists showing how they were planning this out.
How about the fact that your 9 second theory isn't even true.
How about the fact that Gitmo detainees never denied it or claim that your theory is reality.
How about the fact that many american families are missing their loved ones that were on them planes.

Your fact is based on how fast two buildings fell that were built exactly the same. How many years ago?

You tell me to stick my thumb up my ass for believing in common sense.....you are a freak. You simply want to try to blame our government because that seems exciting to you. Get a life.

can you discredit the rate of falling of these buildings? common sense tells me that they should not free fall since there is resistance from the lower floors...i am not a physicist, bt that seems fishy to my eyes...

Cliffy6745

mb262200 wrote:

ryanevolution wrote:

What?! I am presenting physical facts. Which prove the point of controlled demolition. I am assessing no blame or guessing who is behind it, other than it was an inside job, and the official story is bullshit.

My science is physics. The building fell between 11 and 15 seconds. This ALONE proves the official story completely false, there is no way the floors pancaked and hit each other in a collapsing fashion. The core and floors were blown out.

You all on the other side simply talk garbage about theories of debating. Bring a single fact to the table.

How about the fact that there are 200+ people missing that went down in the PA field.
How about the fact that pilots reported they were being hijacked to the airport towers.
How about the fact that there is video after video of OUR planes hitting the buildings.
How about the fact that Osama is on video admitting to being responsible.
How about the fact that many people called their loved ones to tell them what was happening.
How about the fact that there were records found from Al Qaida terorists showing how they were planning this out.
How about the fact that your 9 second theory isn't even true.
How about the fact that Gitmo detainees never denied it or claim that your theory is reality.
How about the fact that many american families are missing their loved ones that were on them planes.

Your fact is based on how fast two buildings fell that were built exactly the same. How many years ago?

You tell me to stick my thumb up my ass for believing in common sense.....you are a freak. You simply want to try to blame our government because that seems exciting to you. Get a life.

Tip of the hat to your sir, we don't agree on many things but I tip my cap to this post.

TriumphantAngel

there's things that don't add up. yes, absolutely there are. but, If there was any conspiracy at all, it was that the Bush administration probably knew of the planned attack well in advance and did nothing to stop it. bottom line is they lied. they screwed up either through incompetency or because they were assuming and hoping (correctly) that the outcry would enable us to go to war.

either way, mission accomplished.

little secrets, tremors...turn to quake....

Pepe Silvia

mb262200 wrote:

Your fact is based on how fast two buildings fell that were built exactly the same. How many years ago?

people seem to forget 3 buildings fell that day at near free fall speed, including 1 that wasn't hit by a plane or jet fuel

TravisTheSky

For better or for worse, I have not studied Sept. 11 because other issues are closer to my heart (Like the R.I Station Nightclub Fire.) But back when I relied on the mainstream media for "news," I accepted 4 of the 5 following points:

mb262200 wrote:

How about the fact that there are 200+ people missing that went down in the PA field.
How about the fact that pilots reported they were being hijacked to the airport towers.
How about the fact that there is video after video of OUR planes hitting the buildings.
How about the fact that Osama is on video admitting to being responsible.
How about the fact that many people called their loved ones to tell them what was happening.

The story about the Pennsylvania crash was a little too much for me to swallow, even in 2001. We were meant to believe that that crash was the first one EVER in the history of all plane crashes to leave no dead bodies, body parts, or charred corpses. All of the passengers simply evaporated into the air. Right. Yup. Okay.

These days, I watch independent media on the internet instead of the good old ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX/CNN, etc. The two points of view could hardly be more opposing:

Point 1. Mainstream Media showed the PA crash as a hole on the ground with no plane parts and no dead. Indie media shows reports from that day with the press being denied access to the first crash site, and later being redirected to the "official" site several miles away. What was secreted at the first locale? Perhaps a large plane on the ground filled with dead people? There are also reports that this plane did not simply crash, it was shot down.

Point 5. MSM filled our imaginations with heroic images of the passengers overpowering the hijackers. "Let's roll!" Yet gov't documents have proven that the passengers' cellular phones did not work from altitude, and the in-flight airphones were never used.

Point 2. Pilots reported hijackings. There were real and fictional hijackings being called in to air traffic control. The military was conducting exercises that put fake "blips" on radar screens which were indistinguishable from real aeroplanes. You can find audio of air traffic control asking the military to please remove the imaginary planes.

Point 3. We saw US planes flown into WTC. The teachers who had the hijackers in their flight schools swore that the men could barely fly tiny private planes, they were NOTcapable of piloting 747s with the expert manouvres we all witnessed.

point 4. Osama. Who knows? Anyone can be used to say anything. Audio can be faked, experts can manipulate footage.

---

The Pentagon: Watch Norman Mineta's testimony in front of Congress about Dick Cheney refusing to authorise fighter jets to protect DC. Look at photos of the Pentagon immediately after it was struck. Before the facade of the building fell, the hole is much too small for anything remotely as huge as a 747 to have gone through.

Remember some news from Sept. 10. 2001 that massive sums of money had disappeared from various gov't agencies? It would have been the leading story in the following days.

I have no idea who is right. I don't know enough one way or the other to call any of these stories "Facts."

Pepe Silvia

TravisTheSky wrote:

For better or for worse, I have not studied Sept. 11 because other issues are closer to my heart (Like the R.I Station Nightclub Fire.) But back when I relied on the mainstream media for "news," I accepted 4 of the 5 following points:

mb262200 wrote:

How about the fact that there are 200+ people missing that went down in the PA field.
How about the fact that pilots reported they were being hijacked to the airport towers.
How about the fact that there is video after video of OUR planes hitting the buildings.
How about the fact that Osama is on video admitting to being responsible.
How about the fact that many people called their loved ones to tell them what was happening.

The story about the Pennsylvania crash was a little too much for me to swallow, even in 2001. We were meant to believe that that crash was the first one EVER in the history of all plane crashes to leave no dead bodies, body parts, or charred corpses. All of the passengers simply evaporated into the air. Right. Yup. Okay.

These days, I watch independent media on the internet instead of the good old ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX/CNN, etc. The two points of view could hardly be more opposing:

Point 1. Mainstream Media showed the PA crash as a hole on the ground with no plane parts and no dead. Indie media shows reports from that day with the press being denied access to the first crash site, and later being redirected to the "official" site several miles away. What was secreted at the first locale? Perhaps a large plane on the ground filled with dead people? There are also reports that this plane did not simply crash, it was shot down.

Point 5. MSM filled our imaginations with heroic images of the passengers overpowering the hijackers. "Let's roll!" Yet gov't documents have proven that the passengers' cellular phones did not work from altitude, and the in-flight airphones were never used.

Point 2. Pilots reported hijackings. There were real and fictional hijackings being called in to air traffic control. The military was conducting exercises that put fake "blips" on radar screens which were indistinguishable from real aeroplanes. You can find audio of air traffic control asking the military to please remove the imaginary planes.

Point 3. We saw US planes flown into WTC. The teachers who had the hijackers in their flight schools swore that the men could barely fly tiny private planes, they were NOTcapable of piloting 747s with the expert manouvres we all witnessed.

point 4. Osama. Who knows? Anyone can be used to say anything. Audio can be faked, experts can manipulate footage.

---

The Pentagon: Watch Norman Mineta's testimony in front of Congress about Dick Cheney refusing to authorise fighter jets to protect DC. Look at photos of the Pentagon immediately after it was struck. Before the facade of the building fell, the hole is much too small for anything remotely as huge as a 747 to have gone through.

Remember some news from Sept. 10. 2001 that massive sums of money had disappeared from various gov't agencies? It would have been the leading story in the following days.

I have no idea who is right. I don't know enough one way or the other to call any of these stories "Facts."

can anyone cite me a single source of the boxcutters?? because the only source i have ever been able to find came from Barbara Olson who called her husband and told him the hijackers had boxcutters....the only problem is in KSM's trial the FBI admitted this was a lie. her cell phone never connected a call to anyone and she never used the the skyphone or whatever it's called on the plane. so, why would this guy lie about getting a call from his wife saying they had boxcutters??

and on 9/10 rummy gave a statement that they have discovered TRILLIONS are unaccounted for in the defense budget over the years, they have no idea where the money went to....he swore the following day they would start a thorough investigation to find out where it went but that got pushed aside after what happened the next day and never picked it back up. i guess trillions of taxpayer money vanishing isn't that big a deal to some...

here are some interesting slip ups

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3LJXoXpAHE

first a guy says: "seeing 1 of our fortresses pried open by a missile uh airplane...."

another clip of bush mentioning explosives going off

then another of rummy saying the terrorists shot down the plane in PA....??

then fox reporting of no plane debris, just a big hole

and here's an interesting quote from Rumsfeld
http://www.defense.gov/Transcripts/Tran ... iptID=3845

"They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center."

also this article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/se ... er11.usa12
The US defence department reacted to warnings immediately before Tuesday's attack with a mixture of chaos and confusion that could have cost lives at the Pentagon, it emerged yesterday.
The American military air defence command was told by the federal aviation administration that a hijacked commercial airliner was heading towards Washington 12 minutes before it hit. But during that crucial time the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, and his top aides remained unaware of any imminent danger.

Defence command also failed to inform Pentagon authorities responsible for guarding the building and so no steps were taken to order an evacuation or otherwise alert the building's 20,000 employees.

Rumsfeld had NO IDEA we were under attack!?!? the sec of defense isn't included that another hijacked plane was being tracked on it's way to dc penetrating the trillion $ defense, making a u-turn, penetrating the space again and hitting the pentagon and no one ever tells rummy???

at the very least if there wasn't any collusion the administration proved themselves to be incompetent that day

pjfan021

idk...i'm not saying i believe that the govt was behind it, but the whole jfk thing always has to sit in the back of your head as an american. our govt does a lotta shit that we never hear about.

acrossssSsssshittt

i have seen this documentary and when I did, all I said was No Shit... because the day the incident happened that is precisely what I figured...and given US govt and CIA history, this really ain;t that far fetched to the outside world...

JonnyPistachio

I'm no physicist either, but I read somewhere that the top floors fell at least one story in freefall and impacted the lower sections with a force equivalent to over thirty times their own weight. So, I am just assuming that the sheer force and gravity caused these buildings to fall faster than one would have expected.

I can't believe some of the conspiracy theory garbage I am reading in these pages. I had to go back and watch a video of those planes fly into the towers to remeind myself of the horrors of that day. There were children on those planes for godsake. I think there were even a few infants. It makes me sick to my stomach to hear people saying that our government had anything to do with it. :evil:

yeah,a third building fell that day.. umm, hello, there were severly intense fires spewing nearby, spraying of debris for blocks and blocks, and complete chaos.

And if I hear one more person say, "oh gee, did you see that hole in the pentagon? there's no way it was big enough for a 747!" ..im gonna puke my breakfast up. I love hearing that one because, yeah it's like everyday that i see buildings with 747's flying into them! I understand the forces and physics behind a collision at 400+ mph! gimme a fucking break. :roll:

polaris_x

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I can't believe some of the conspiracy theory garbage I am reading in these pages. I had to go back and watch a video of those planes fly into the towers to remeind myself of the horrors of that day. There were children on those planes for godsake. I think there were even a few infants. It makes me sick to my stomach to hear people saying that our government had anything to do with it. :evil:

2 wars have spawned from that fateful day ... wars which have killed thousands upon thousands of innocent children ... the truth may not be what you want to hear ... but the truth is what will prevent this from happening again ... i'm not saying you are wrong in your beliefs - only that to simply just accept the official story will do nothing to prevent innocent lives from dying in the future ...

rebornFixer

polaris_x wrote:

2 wars have spawned from that fateful day ... wars which have killed thousands upon thousands of innocent children ... the truth may not be what you want to hear ... but the truth is what will prevent this from happening again ... i'm not saying you are wrong in your beliefs - only that to simply just accept the official story will do nothing to prevent innocent lives from dying in the future ...

And yet the complete lack of convincing evidence for 9-11 conspiracy theories looms large. It is not clear to me how slippery logic and going to the other extreme will save lives either.

FiveB247x

Exactly... there's plenty of things for which we do not know answers or have uncertainties about, but it doesn't mean we should rush to judgment and make a leap to some extreme view on that matter. This apparently to many is the way to the truth.. which is a shame.

rebornFixer wrote:

And yet the complete lack of convincing evidence for 9-11 conspiracy theories looms large. It is not clear to me how slippery logic and going to the other extreme will save lives either.

polaris_x

rebornFixer wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

2 wars have spawned from that fateful day ... wars which have killed thousands upon thousands of innocent children ... the truth may not be what you want to hear ... but the truth is what will prevent this from happening again ... i'm not saying you are wrong in your beliefs - only that to simply just accept the official story will do nothing to prevent innocent lives from dying in the future ...

And yet the complete lack of convincing evidence for 9-11 conspiracy theories looms large. It is not clear to me how slippery logic and going to the other extreme will save lives either.

i believe we've already agreed that there are lot of unanswered questions - questions that likely will never be answered ...

my point was simply that we shouldn't condemm people who are seeking the truth ... especially if the truth is not what one wants to hear ...

FiveB247x

Well I don't whole-heartedly agree with that point polaris. There's a difference between seeking truth and being cynical, skeptical or even not coming to a full conclusion on an issue or matter, compared to swinging 180% in the other direction.. and in my opinion that is what many people have done with this issue. Take a leap in 180% in a direction there's not full proof or fact of...and when you question them about this, they say everyone is in denial? Perhaps, some of us are seeking all the facts before making such a distinction or belief.

polaris_x wrote:

i believe we've already agreed that there are lot of unanswered questions - questions that likely will never be answered ...

my point was simply that we shouldn't condemm people who are seeking the truth ... especially if the truth is not what one wants to hear ...