FiveB247x, you are one of the people I am talking about who never enter into the world of fact and continually debate about debating. It's bullshit.
Five's position is firmly grounded in the facts, as we know them to date. Talking about the logic used in 9-11 conspiracy theories is directly pertainent to their accuracy, I would argue. Way back in this thread I was trying to focus you in on the logical holes in these theories, and you just kept repeating that stuff about the buildings, even though several folks have refuted your point about how they fell.
What "several folks" have refuted anything. That video did nothing to explain the other side. Only tried to stir up hate against such "liberals" as Rosie O'Donnel. Funny they chose to show her instead of the people she got her info from. And funny how so many here fell for that hate bait. Distractions are very effective.
Once again:
Theory: 9/11 (AT LEAST WTC COLLAPSE) was an inside job
Facts: 2 Buildings fall at near free fall speed after being hit by airplanes (which they were designed to withstand the impacts of), and a third, non-hit building, is also dropped in a controlled demolition.
"Inside Job" only means that there had to be people involved inside the building. I have never once drawn a conclusion to "the government" or any individuals.
All I am looking for is agreement that the must have been explosives inside the building to drop it at that rate. If the floors pancaked as is the official theory, it would have taken over 90 seconds. Even with your time steched "audio" of the collapse it is NOWHERE near 90 seconds.
Evolution Music Studios presents:
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
About half way through, and there's this little excerpt....
"While this may have been a contributing factor, I do not believe that we need to
invoke anything as extreme as the meltingof structural steel in the WTC to explain why
the towers collapsed." No need to explain only one of the most fundamental aspects of the collapse. And the first 10 pages, they try there asses off to add every bit of time they can to the collapse, with little success. I will get back to you when I finish this.
Evolution Music Studios presents:
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
"Now consider NIST’s version of the final moments of WTC 7 as exemplified by the computer-generated simulacra of Figure 12-69 of NCSTAR 1-9. These images of the final collapse of WTC 7 from the north, west and south show very extensive buckling of the exterior columns especially near the mid-height of the building. It is simply astounding that, even though these computer generated images of a crumpled and severely distorted Building 7 look nothing like the video images of the real thing, NIST nevertheless concludes: “the global collapse analyses matched the observed behavior reasonably well.”
5.0 Conclusions
I believe there are many problems with the material presented in NIST’s Draft WTC 7 Report; most of these problems stem from the fuel loading assumed by NIST but I would add that NIST’s collapse hypothesis is not physically realistic and is not well supported by observations of the behavior of Building 7 during its collapse. I certainly believe that an alternative collapse initiation and propagation hypothesis is called for; an hypothesis that more accurately reflects the reality of what happened to WTC 7 on September 11th 2001."
Post edited by ryanevolution on
Evolution Music Studios presents:
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
Facts: 2 Buildings fall at near free fall speed after being hit by airplanes (which they were designed to withstand the impacts of), and a third, non-hit building, is also dropped in a controlled demolition.
"Inside Job" only means that there had to be people involved inside the building. I have never once drawn a conclusion to "the government" or any individuals.
All I am looking for is agreement that the must have been explosives inside the building to drop it at that rate. If the floors pancaked as is the official theory, it would have taken over 90 seconds. Even with your time steched "audio" of the collapse it is NOWHERE near 90 seconds.
It is NOT a fact that these buildings were designed to withstand the impacts of 747s at full throttle.
It is NOT a fact that the third building is dropped in a controlled demolition.
I'm suprised more surrounding buildings didnt fall. Did you see how far firey debris sprayed outward?
I dont think there is ANY history of a building even NEARLY as large as the two towers collapsing or being hit by a missle-like impact of a fully fueled 747 at 400-500 mph, where jet fuel sprayed so far as almost to the ground floor through elevator shafts. Has that happened before, because I sure as hell havent heard about it. 90 seconds, whatever... doesnt tell me anything.
No, Physically. By "Physics". If the top floor fell with not a single thing below it. It would hit the ground in about 9 seconds. The entire building fell very close to that. The most conservative estimate putting the collapse near 15 seconds. That is stretching every known audio and physical evidence possible. Which means, the floors did not pancake, they were blown out.
Evolution Music Studios presents:
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
I don't enter the world of fact? My point has only ever been, don't jump to final conclusion because we don't know all the facts... and in many instances, and as most of your posts in this or other 9-11 threads, they are all absolute conclusion based on things we do not know for certain, and unproven facts. Why rush to final judgment when you do not know all the facts and details? Pot meet kettle.
FiveB247x, you are one of the people I am talking about who never enter into the world of fact and continually debate about debating. It's bullshit.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
And once again, bad math in the official account (assuming said math is even bad) does not prove that a conspiracy is afoot. Man, I feel like a broken freakin' record. How does discrepancies in the number of seconds the damn buildings took to fall somehow magically transmute into "the US did it"??? There are some serious missing pieces.
And once again, bad math in the official account (assuming said math is even bad) does not prove that a conspiracy is afoot. Man, I feel like a broken freakin' record. How does discrepancies in the number of seconds the damn buildings took to fall somehow magically transmute into "the US did it"??? There are some serious missing pieces.
it comes down to this ... an "official story" is presented ... if said story is proven to be false - then it begs the question why was it wrong ...
i've seen fires of all kinds and i can't recall seeing a building ever collapse due to fire ... forget about the twin towers ... building 7 which got hit by debris ... collapses? ...
No, Physically. By "Physics". If the top floor fell with not a single thing below it. It would hit the ground in about 9 seconds. The entire building fell very close to that. The most conservative estimate putting the collapse near 15 seconds. That is stretching every known audio and physical evidence possible. Which means, the floors did not pancake, they were blown out.
Man, where in the heck do you get these things from? the same place where you said the building was designed to withstand this kind of accident, where you were 100% wrong?
In addition, those floors were falling apart for over an HOUR. Perimeter colums were falling long before the collapse...siding was crumpling, and who knows how much of the interior was melting, falling, or sagging. NONE of these whack-job conspiracy theories take these factors into account. Or there's the fact that there was over 500,000 tons of steel moving downwards with the help of the force of gravity. Each floor from the top transferred its momentum to the next. The more weight, the less resistance each floor gave.
So, there are estimates of between 9 seconds and 15 seconds? Proves Nothing, especially considereing you cannot pinpoint at what point the towers began to fall. And within that cloud of debris, the final moments are even debatable.
And once again, bad math in the official account (assuming said math is even bad) does not prove that a conspiracy is afoot. Man, I feel like a broken freakin' record. How does discrepancies in the number of seconds the damn buildings took to fall somehow magically transmute into "the US did it"??? There are some serious missing pieces.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Anyone who thinks the WTC attacks were anything than what they were AS WE WATCHED THEM HAPPEN ON LIVE TELEVISION is a complete imbecile. So fire "can't melt steel"? Well how the fuck do you think steel is manufactured?
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
Evolution Music Studios presents:
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
I asked you this earlier in this thread and you never answered.
Not to be dismissive, but are you physicist or have real world experience in this field - enough to have a legitimate comment on the matter? Any joe schmoe can have an opinion and back it up with half-truthes or point to another person's comments (which I do know there are some in the field which back your claims and many on the other side who do not).. but do you specifically have experience to be so overly dismissive about a field and action which probably a great deal of us do not?
1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Also, last I checked, no one claimed the WTC turned into a pool of melted metals... but let's not let facts or common sense get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
the thing that nags me most is building 7, which was only hit by debris on 1 side, falling perfectly down at near free fall speeds. no jet fuel to melt or weaken the steel, also the damage wasn't all the way around the building so shouldn't it have toppled over more than fallen straight down on itself at the same speed on all sides? it's like that game jenga, when a certain side is weakened enough it leans too far and collapses, the whole thing doesn't just cave in on itself and fall straight down in unison
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Anyone ever see this show? I watched it recently and I think they did a pretty good job of going over several of the major issues and questions on this topic.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
I forgot you were in there with your meat thermometer.
Have any of you who have posted in the last few pages actually seen Loose Change? If not, you should pull up the more relevant threads and continue your arguments there.
If you watched the film and disagreed with various points, you could explain them to us. Most of what I am reading here is toddler-level mocking: "Ooh, science! Let's all laugh and point!"
In the past, I've seen Loose Change, 9/11 Truth Rising, and Fabled Enemies. Truth Rising was the weakest of the three. Loose Change was pretty good. Fabled Enemies was the best of the three, but not earth-shattering. In my opinion, none of the documentaries contained any one piece of evidence that would disillusion a person who whole-heartedly believed the Mainstream Media's interpretation of events.
I just read that the president of Iran is a "truther". Given this guy's sterling track record of Holocaust denial, I am thinking that the real truthers might want to distance themselves from this douchebag.
i wonder why we've been shown the footage of the towers being hit a trillion times but pretty much all the footage from the pentagon, except for 1 video which really shows nothing, has been suppressed? why did the 9/11 commission think they were lied to? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01300.html
Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.
Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission, hoping to hide the bungled response to the hijackings, these sources said.....
"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."....
For more than two years after the attacks, officials with NORAD and the FAA provided inaccurate information about the response to the hijackings in testimony and media appearances. Authorities suggested that U.S. air defenses had reacted quickly, that jets had been scrambled in response to the last two hijackings and that fighters were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 if it threatened Washington.
In fact, the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD's Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft -- American Airlines Flight 11 -- long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center.
Maj. Gen. Larry Arnold and Col. Alan Scott told the commission that NORAD had begun tracking United 93 at 9:16 a.m., but the commission determined that the airliner was not hijacked until 12 minutes later. The military was not aware of the flight until after it had crashed in Pennsylvania.
These and other discrepancies did not become clear until the commission, forced to use subpoenas, obtained audiotapes from the FAA and NORAD, officials said. The agencies' reluctance to release the tapes -- along with e-mails, erroneous public statements and other evidence -- led some of the panel's staff members and commissioners to believe that authorities sought to mislead the commission and the public about what happened on Sept. 11.
"I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described," John Farmer, a former New Jersey attorney general who led the staff inquiry into events on Sept. 11, said in a recent interview. "The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. . . . This is not spin. This is not true."
The limitations prompted angry condemnations yesterday from two Democratic commissioners -- former Georgia senator Max Cleland and former Indiana representative Timothy Roemer -- who have argued that the commission should be more aggressive in seeking sensitive materials from the Bush administration.
Cleland called the agreement "unconscionable" and said it "was deliberately compromised by the president of the United States" in order to limit the panel's work.
"If this decision stands, I as a member of the commission cannot look any American in the eye, especially family members of victims, and say the commission had full access," he said. "This investigation is now compromised . . . This is `The Gong Show'; this isn't protection of national security."
and i still don't understand why we've been shown the footage of the towers being hit trillions of times but the only footage released of the pentagon shows practically nothing. why not allow any of the footage confiscated from the gas station and hotel nearby to be seen?
and how did building 7 fall straight down again?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Have you ever been to the Pentagon? What gas stations around it?
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Facts: 2 Buildings fall at near free fall speed after being hit by airplanes (which they were designed to withstand the impacts of), and a third, non-hit building, is also dropped in a controlled demolition.
"Inside Job" only means that there had to be people involved inside the building. I have never once drawn a conclusion to "the government" or any individuals.
All I am looking for is agreement that the must have been explosives inside the building to drop it at that rate. If the floors pancaked as is the official theory, it would have taken over 90 seconds. Even with your time steched "audio" of the collapse it is NOWHERE near 90 seconds.
It is NOT a fact that these buildings were designed to withstand the impacts of 747s at full throttle.
It is NOT a fact that the third building is dropped in a controlled demolition.
I'm suprised more surrounding buildings didnt fall. Did you see how far firey debris sprayed outward?
I dont think there is ANY history of a building even NEARLY as large as the two towers collapsing or being hit by a missle-like impact of a fully fueled 747 at 400-500 mph, where jet fuel sprayed so far as almost to the ground floor through elevator shafts. Has that happened before, because I sure as hell havent heard about it. 90 seconds, whatever... doesnt tell me anything.
it is NOT a fact that the planes were traveling at full throttle and i seriously doubt they were, for terrorists who could barely fly i doubt they'd take the chance of fucking up and missing by overshooting it as i would imagine it would be hard to navigate it properly on target at full speed....
you're right, it is NOT a fact building 7 dropped by explosives, the official report admits it is just a guess and they don't really know. so, how do you think building 7 fell straight down on itself in uniform fashion by debris damaging 1 side?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Comments
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
Five's position is firmly grounded in the facts, as we know them to date. Talking about the logic used in 9-11 conspiracy theories is directly pertainent to their accuracy, I would argue. Way back in this thread I was trying to focus you in on the logical holes in these theories, and you just kept repeating that stuff about the buildings, even though several folks have refuted your point about how they fell.
Once again:
Theory: 9/11 (AT LEAST WTC COLLAPSE) was an inside job
Facts: 2 Buildings fall at near free fall speed after being hit by airplanes (which they were designed to withstand the impacts of), and a third, non-hit building, is also dropped in a controlled demolition.
"Inside Job" only means that there had to be people involved inside the building. I have never once drawn a conclusion to "the government" or any individuals.
All I am looking for is agreement that the must have been explosives inside the building to drop it at that rate. If the floors pancaked as is the official theory, it would have taken over 90 seconds. Even with your time steched "audio" of the collapse it is NOWHERE near 90 seconds.
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
"While this may have been a contributing factor, I do not believe that we need to
invoke anything as extreme as the meltingof structural steel in the WTC to explain why
the towers collapsed."
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
"Now consider NIST’s version of the final moments of WTC 7 as exemplified by the computer-generated simulacra of Figure 12-69 of NCSTAR 1-9. These images of the final collapse of WTC 7 from the north, west and south show very extensive buckling of the exterior columns especially near the mid-height of the building. It is simply astounding that, even though these computer generated images of a crumpled and severely distorted Building 7 look nothing like the video images of the real thing, NIST nevertheless concludes: “the global collapse analyses matched the observed behavior reasonably well.”
5.0 Conclusions
I believe there are many problems with the material presented in NIST’s Draft WTC 7 Report; most of these problems stem from the fuel loading assumed by NIST but I would add that NIST’s collapse hypothesis is not physically realistic and is not well supported by observations of the behavior of Building 7 during its collapse. I certainly believe that an alternative collapse initiation and propagation hypothesis is called for; an hypothesis that more accurately reflects the reality of what happened to WTC 7 on September 11th 2001."
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
It is NOT a fact that these buildings were designed to withstand the impacts of 747s at full throttle.
It is NOT a fact that the third building is dropped in a controlled demolition.
I'm suprised more surrounding buildings didnt fall. Did you see how far firey debris sprayed outward?
I dont think there is ANY history of a building even NEARLY as large as the two towers collapsing or being hit by a missle-like impact of a fully fueled 747 at 400-500 mph, where jet fuel sprayed so far as almost to the ground floor through elevator shafts. Has that happened before, because I sure as hell havent heard about it. 90 seconds, whatever... doesnt tell me anything.
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
Theoretically.
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
it comes down to this ... an "official story" is presented ... if said story is proven to be false - then it begs the question why was it wrong ...
i've seen fires of all kinds and i can't recall seeing a building ever collapse due to fire ... forget about the twin towers ... building 7 which got hit by debris ... collapses? ...
Man, where in the heck do you get these things from? the same place where you said the building was designed to withstand this kind of accident, where you were 100% wrong?
In addition, those floors were falling apart for over an HOUR. Perimeter colums were falling long before the collapse...siding was crumpling, and who knows how much of the interior was melting, falling, or sagging. NONE of these whack-job conspiracy theories take these factors into account. Or there's the fact that there was over 500,000 tons of steel moving downwards with the help of the force of gravity. Each floor from the top transferred its momentum to the next. The more weight, the less resistance each floor gave.
So, there are estimates of between 9 seconds and 15 seconds? Proves Nothing, especially considereing you cannot pinpoint at what point the towers began to fall. And within that cloud of debris, the final moments are even debatable.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
http://911review.com/articles/jm/mslp_1.htm
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/9-11-science-and-conspiracy-4067
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I forgot you were in there with your meat thermometer.
If you watched the film and disagreed with various points, you could explain them to us. Most of what I am reading here is toddler-level mocking: "Ooh, science! Let's all laugh and point!"
In the past, I've seen Loose Change, 9/11 Truth Rising, and Fabled Enemies. Truth Rising was the weakest of the three. Loose Change was pretty good. Fabled Enemies was the best of the three, but not earth-shattering. In my opinion, none of the documentaries contained any one piece of evidence that would disillusion a person who whole-heartedly believed the Mainstream Media's interpretation of events.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_ ... ea/ml_iran
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01300.html
and why would 1 of the co chairs say this?
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... held_data/
and i still don't understand why we've been shown the footage of the towers being hit trillions of times but the only footage released of the pentagon shows practically nothing. why not allow any of the footage confiscated from the gas station and hotel nearby to be seen?
and how did building 7 fall straight down again?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
it is NOT a fact that the planes were traveling at full throttle and i seriously doubt they were, for terrorists who could barely fly i doubt they'd take the chance of fucking up and missing by overshooting it as i would imagine it would be hard to navigate it properly on target at full speed....
you're right, it is NOT a fact building 7 dropped by explosives, the official report admits it is just a guess and they don't really know. so, how do you think building 7 fell straight down on itself in uniform fashion by debris damaging 1 side?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'