To say Bin Laden and company did it and there are no unanswered questions or issue relating too it is an absolute conclusion. To say there is conspiracy theory in which the government had their hand in or enabled 9-11 is an absolute conclusion. Pretty much anything in between could be swayed upon further details... and most of the people posting in this thread backing an inside job are making absolute conclusions... no if's, ands or buts about it.
As per the JFK issue, I think every issue is different and has varying circumstances. I've read, seen and heard lots on this topic and honestly do not know what to believe.
Ironically and speaking of conspiracy theories (not to change the subject), I watched a few shows the other day in regards to the Apollo Lunar landing on the moon in 69. According to a recent study/poll, 20% of Americans believe this didn't actually happen and it was a fabrication/filmed in tv studio. It has been pretty much proven without a shadow of a doubt that the conspiracy theorists are completely wrong on this matter. Are we wrong to say they're incorrect or misguided or going by half-truths? At what point is it fair/safe or just to dismiss incorrect information and people's opinions based on wrong information or nonfactual data?
so ... you are saying then that there was absolutely no gov't conspiracy?
all these issues are indeed different but it appears the rigidity by which you seem to have for those who believe in a conspiracy fluctuates based on the issue and your own beliefs ...
At best case scenario all we can account for right now is the government not being forthright in providing all the details of the events of that day. In terms of a government conspiracy which enabled or participated in the events, we have nothing on other than accusations and insinuations.
And everyone's beliefs sway in terms of what they deem possible, likely, legitimate or even factual. I have an open door to whatever the facts or details which are stated... have said that from the beginning. You seem to discredit that because I don't adhere to yours or ryan's comments, opinions or postings.
so ... you are saying then that there was absolutely no gov't conspiracy?
all these issues are indeed different but it appears the rigidity by which you seem to have for those who believe in a conspiracy fluctuates based on the issue and your own beliefs ...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
At best case scenario all we can account for right now is the government not being forthright in providing all the details of the events of that day. In terms of a government conspiracy which enabled or participated in the events, we have nothing on other than accusations and insinuations.
And everyone's beliefs sway in terms of what they deem possible, likely, legitimate or even factual. I have an open door to whatever the facts or details which are stated... have said that from the beginning. You seem to discredit that because I don't adhere to yours or ryan's comments, opinions or postings.
i'm not the one marginalizing others opinions on this matter
"magic bullet theory" = fire caused collapse theory. Both equal total bullshit and defy and scientific explanation.
So, to satisfy the 'scientific explanation'...you are saying the only way that those towers could have collapsed at free fall speed is from explosives, right? Do you agree that this would mean that enough explosives would have to be put on every single floor and had to have completely demolished/obliterated the whole structure of every single floor?
-and-
Scientifically, (in order to 'trick' all the witnesses into believing that it wasnt demolished on purpose) each floor would have to explode in a domino effect starting from the top, each descending floor detonating split seconds apart.
Do you agree with that?
Your freefall collapse argument means Nothing scientifically.
Well this goes back to my point about the Lunar Landing... when is it acceptable to discount information when we know it is incorrect? Or even to put it into perspective as another poster has done with the free-fall scenario or even the fact that even if it was explosives, it in no ways ties the government to being guilty? So where do you draw the line between reasonable and not or legit and not?
i'm not the one marginalizing others opinions on this matter
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Well this goes back to my point about the Lunar Landing... when is it acceptable to discount information when we know it is incorrect? Or even to put it into perspective as another poster has done with the free-fall scenario or even the fact that even if it was explosives, it in no ways ties the government to being guilty? So where do you draw the line between reasonable and not or legit and not?
if there were explosives - it means that the official story now has holes - the official story put forth by the gov't ... similar to any court trial - the witness (in this case the gov't) would lose all credibility ...
as far as the line goes ... it doesn't really matter where anyone draws the line - that's my entire point ... it's completely subjective ... i just don't see how it's beneficial here ...
But here's the thing you're not accounting for - even if we give the benefit of doubt and say the government is part of some cover-up because explosives were present... it still in no way means they did it. It also still means we have no proof or data to who did do it. Either way you play out that scenario, guilt doesn't fall upon a party, it merely means we still do not know.. but conspiracy theorists make a leap here when it doesn't warrant one and we have no proof in the slightest.
if there were explosives - it means that the official story now has holes - the official story put forth by the gov't ... similar to any court trial - the witness (in this case the gov't) would lose all credibility ...
as far as the line goes ... it doesn't really matter where anyone draws the line - that's my entire point ... it's completely subjective ... i just don't see how it's beneficial here ...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
So, to satisfy the 'scientific explanation'...you are saying the only way that those towers could have collapsed at free fall speed is from explosives, right? Do you agree that this would mean that enough explosives would have to be put on every single floor and had to have completely demolished/obliterated the whole structure of every single floor?
-and-
Scientifically, (in order to 'trick' all the witnesses into believing that it wasnt demolished on purpose) each floor would have to explode in a domino effect starting from the top, each descending floor detonating split seconds apart.
Do you agree with that?
Your freefall collapse argument means Nothing scientifically.
That is what I am saying. Yes. There were a motherfuckin shitload of explosives laced throughout that entire building, in a controlled demolition manner, with exactly what you are saying, timing devices to daisy chain the whole explosion down. Any evidence of this? YES. How about the fact that every bit of concrete in the entire building was blown to DUST! Not rubble, dust! Like it was...exploded. :shock: And that also goes back to my original point, of it being an "inside job".
AGAIN, I never implicated "the government". That is an ignorant narrow minded view of this socio-politcal structure anyway. There is not one unified "government". There are many divided factions within its ranks, some acting with impunity, some above reproach.
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The "free-fall" argument is scientific. It means exactly what you are saying. That in a controlled demolition (as we have all seen I'm sure many times before, as in 'wow, watch this building implode" or "this stadium" or whatever), all floors are blown out in a timed manner. This provides a zero resistance, and allows the floors to fall into themselves and into the basement without damaging adjacent buildings. This is what is plain to the naked eye when watching the collapse. Using science, which PROVES that if the top floor fell from its height at free fall, it would hit ground level in 9.15 seconds (or VERY close to that). The buildings fell (estimates range from 9 sec - 15 sec) at near free fall speed. This means, that there MUST have been a controlled demolition model in effect for the WTC towers.
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DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
"magic bullet theory" = fire caused collapse theory. Both equal total bullshit and defy and scientific explanation.
You do realize that the properties of steel change as it is heated and it becomes more ductile, long before it reaches its melting point. I mean if it didn't how the hell would a blacksmith be able to make things since those guys aren't working with liquid metal?
So, to satisfy the 'scientific explanation'...you are saying the only way that those towers could have collapsed at free fall speed is from explosives, right? Do you agree that this would mean that enough explosives would have to be put on every single floor and had to have completely demolished/obliterated the whole structure of every single floor?
-and-
Scientifically, (in order to 'trick' all the witnesses into believing that it wasnt demolished on purpose) each floor would have to explode in a domino effect starting from the top, each descending floor detonating split seconds apart.
Do you agree with that?
Your freefall collapse argument means Nothing scientifically.
That is what I am saying. Yes. There were a motherfuckin shitload of explosives laced throughout that entire building, in a controlled demolition manner, with exactly what you are saying, timing devices to daisy chain the whole explosion down. Any evidence of this? YES. How about the fact that every bit of concrete in the entire building was blown to DUST! Not rubble, dust! Like it was...exploded. :shock: And that also goes back to my original point, of it being an "inside job".
AGAIN, I never implicated "the government". That is an ignorant narrow minded view of this socio-politcal structure anyway. There is not one unified "government". There are many divided factions within its ranks, some acting with impunity, some above reproach.
Do you realize how difficult it would be to obtain this many TONS of explosives, deliver these TONS of explosives, smuggle tons of explosives into the building, store these tons of explosives in the building, then access the points (probably more than four points) on over 100 floors, get inside the infrastructure of the walls and place these explosives, wire these tons of explosives, and have them go off flawlessly in succession on over 100 floors?
No to mention doing this ONCE, but TWICE? Oh, no wait, THREE TIMES!? Inconceivable in my mind! But that’s just me I guess.
So, what we’re saying here is that someone got away with smuggling probably thousands of TONS of explosives into over 200 floors of three separate buildings where 100’s of thousands of people are, and nobody noticed? Again, maybe it’s just me, but that is fucking ludicrous.
Seriously, how many people do you think would have to be in on working these explosives to pull this off, and over what kind of time period? it would take months to do this with hundreds of people. The chances that this squeaked by and NOBODY ever talked is insane.
And, all the concrete tower was NOT reduced to dust. Absolutely not, in no way shape or form is that saying correct.
Do you realize how difficult it would be to obtain this many TONS of explosives, deliver these TONS of explosives, smuggle tons of explosives into the building, store these tons of explosives in the building, then access the points (probably more than four points) on over 100 floors, get inside the infrastructure of the walls and place these explosives, wire these tons of explosives, and have them go off flawlessly in succession on over 100 floors?
No to mention doing this ONCE, but TWICE? Oh, no wait, THREE TIMES!? Inconceivable in my mind! But that’s just me I guess.
So, what we’re saying here is that someone got away with smuggling probably thousands of TONS of explosives into over 200 floors of three separate buildings where 100’s of thousands of people are, and nobody noticed? Again, maybe it’s just me, but that is fucking ludicrous.
Seriously, how many people do you think would have to be in on working these explosives to pull this off, and over what kind of time period? it would take months to do this with hundreds of people. The chances that this squeaked by and NOBODY ever talked is insane.
And, all the concrete tower was NOT reduced to dust. Absolutely not, in no way shape or form is that saying correct.
It seems like most of us wont agree on things here, which is OK, of course.. but I thought we'd change it up a bit...
So, I have a question: (it’s very theoretical, so this is all speculation of course)
What if there WAS a conspiracy behind 9-11 and the government (or whoever was behind it, state who you think was behind it) was proven to have been deceitful and arranged and covered-up the murder of over 3,000 U.S. citizens among others. What would be the repercussions if your conspiracy theories were proven to be true?
This is something that never really sat well with me. In my opinion, if a person believed the government was/is/will kill its own citizens in some serious and outward fashion, why would you stay? And even if you're answer is "to fix things", wouldn't you be doing more than minor efforts that the people who believe this are doing? I don't know, maybe it's me, but I do not understand that line of thinking.
It seems like most of us wont agree on things here, which is OK, of course.. but I thought we'd change it up a bit...
So, I have a question: (it’s very theoretical, so this is all speculation of course)
What if there WAS a conspiracy behind 9-11 and the government (or whoever was behind it, state who you think was behind it) was proven to have been deceitful and arranged and covered-up the murder of over 3,000 U.S. citizens among others. What would be the repercussions if your conspiracy theories were proven to be true?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
this is from a post i made after watching the 1st 1/2 of that very special:
i caught part of this national geographic special, inside 9/11. sadly i only saw the 80's through mid 90's. but a few observations.
the entire time span of the muhjadeen it only mentioned the CIA 2 times. the first time it said only the CIA was there. the 2nd time is to say the CIA gave them the stinger rockets which allowed them to shoot down the helicopters.
there's no mention of US/CIA and other countries funding of this, in fact they make it look like islamic 'charities' funded them.
when they get to the part of bin laden creating what would become al qaeda, again, they make no mention of US and other countries dumping a lot of funds into it, bin laden was working with the CIA when he created this group. the only mention they make of the funding is making it seem like bin laden funded it entirely saying he used some of his fortune to create the group.
so, a little on the sloppy side, i'd say, in not mentioning the foreign governments who pumped money into him/them and never mentioned the ISI who were the go betweens for the CIA and muhjadeen, they helped distribute the money as well but none of this is mentioned, it's made to seem like it's 100% islamic funding
so, they weren't completely factual in the 1st 1/2 of the program, i'm sure the 2nd 1/2 is where it started become factual :roll:
and why did the stories about a van with a bomb inside it on the gw bridge being stopped and the 5 people videotaping the towers burning, while they cheered, disappear so quickly?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Good God, people are still discussing this? Stop posting to this thread right now. With each asinine comment you conspiracy-wackos prove yourself more and more insane.
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
Well this goes back to my point about the Lunar Landing... when is it acceptable to discount information when we know it is incorrect? Or even to put it into perspective as another poster has done with the free-fall scenario or even the fact that even if it was explosives, it in no ways ties the government to being guilty? So where do you draw the line between reasonable and not or legit and not?
if there were explosives - it means that the official story now has holes - the official story put forth by the gov't ... similar to any court trial - the witness (in this case the gov't) would lose all credibility ...
as far as the line goes ... it doesn't really matter where anyone draws the line - that's my entire point ... it's completely subjective ... i just don't see how it's beneficial here ...
it's already been proven they lied to us about things, the 9/11 commission themselves thought about criminal charges because of the lies they were being told by people in the government and how they wouldn't allow the commission access to lots of things or when they did they would only allow a few to see it and they weren't allowed to take notes. why wouldn't bush and cheney testify alone or under oath? the FBI admitted the guy who said his wife called him from 1 of the planes and told him terrorists hijacked the plane with boxcutters (the only source for the boxcutter story) was made up, his wife NEVER CALLED HIM and yet the boxcutter thing is a fact to most people despite being completely untrue.
as i've said numerous times i don't know what happened but they lied too many times in regards to what happened for me to trust their account. and for the people who think some members wouldn't care if less than 3,000 americans died in the event how many have died from inadequate protection in Iraq and Afghanistan? the amount of people that die in the US from not having health care is equal to several 9/11s and they don't care about that. i forgot the number of people that die from factors from pollution and that administration did fuckall to cut that down, even going so far as to say they don't think carbon dioxide is even a pollutant!
Cheney was asked years ago how his company, Halliburton, could do business with countries having horrible human rights abuses and his reply was it was easy, he didn't think about it. to some of these people only the bottom line matters, just as Cheney didn't mind then or how he didn't mind that over 75% of the deaths when we invaded Panama were innocent civilians so why would they mind if less than 3,000 people died? that is a very low % population wise, not even 1% of US citizens.
just like when Rumsfeld was asked about going to war without the proper protection and equipment for our troops he shrugged it off and said 'you go to war with the military you have, not the military you wish you had' but it's already been proven they had been planning this attack for months, so it wasn't a spur of the moment thing, they knew and they just didn't care to spend the money on our troops and you expect me to believe they'd care about ,000 random civilians?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I do not discredit your comments in regards to the government lying to the public - certainly nothing new... but as for anything past that, it is nothing more than hearsay and half-truths. It is circumstantial information and events which may or may not amount to anything more than coincidence or application into the matter by the person viewing the situation. Just because the government doesn't care about the lives of its citizens doesn't equate to them be responsible or enabling such events.. that's mere insinuation, not fact. Lastly, even if we assume there is some coverup and many of these theories regarding explosives, etc are true, we have no proof the government actually did it. And throughout this entire thread, not one person has even offered any time of legitimate timeline or potential order of actions that could have been taken to carry off such an enormous event with no-one knowing, coming forward or similar.
it's already been proven they lied to us about things, the 9/11 commission themselves thought about criminal charges because of the lies they were being told by people in the government and how they wouldn't allow the commission access to lots of things or when they did they would only allow a few to see it and they weren't allowed to take notes. why wouldn't bush and cheney testify alone or under oath? the FBI admitted the guy who said his wife called him from 1 of the planes and told him terrorists hijacked the plane with boxcutters (the only source for the boxcutter story) was made up, his wife NEVER CALLED HIM and yet the boxcutter thing is a fact to most people despite being completely untrue.
as i've said numerous times i don't know what happened but they lied too many times in regards to what happened for me to trust their account. and for the people who think some members wouldn't care if less than 3,000 americans died in the event how many have died from inadequate protection in Iraq and Afghanistan? the amount of people that die in the US from not having health care is equal to several 9/11s and they don't care about that. i forgot the number of people that die from factors from pollution and that administration did fuckall to cut that down, even going so far as to say they don't think carbon dioxide is even a pollutant!
Cheney was asked years ago how his company, Halliburton, could do business with countries having horrible human rights abuses and his reply was it was easy, he didn't think about it. to some of these people only the bottom line matters, just as Cheney didn't mind then or how he didn't mind that over 75% of the deaths when we invaded Panama were innocent civilians so why would they mind if less than 3,000 people died? that is a very low % population wise, not even 1% of US citizens.
just like when Rumsfeld was asked about going to war without the proper protection and equipment for our troops he shrugged it off and said 'you go to war with the military you have, not the military you wish you had' but it's already been proven they had been planning this attack for months, so it wasn't a spur of the moment thing, they knew and they just didn't care to spend the money on our troops and you expect me to believe they'd care about ,000 random civilians?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I haven't seen this entire one yet, but no one should rush to judgment on an issue or topic. A perfect example is Loose Change, which won several "awards", but has since revised a few times because of things that were debunked or proven incorrect. Just as many of you refuse to swallow the pill to accept the official story by the government, the same scrutiny should go in the other direction.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Please stop posting to this thread. You are only encouraging the crazy people.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I haven't seen this entire one yet, but no one should rush to judgment on an issue or topic. A perfect example is Loose Change, which won several "awards", but has since revised a few times because of things that were debunked or proven incorrect. Just as many of you refuse to swallow the pill to accept the official story by the government, the same scrutiny should go in the other direction.
well, i can't argue with you on this as i've never seen any version of loose change
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
what wasn't correct? did the reporter see plane parts at a later time?
"can you give us any idea on how much of the plane actually impacted the building?"
"from my close up inspection there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the pentagon...."
i guess he didn't notice the tail section because a leaf was on top of it or something?
and obviously there have been those in government for decades that don't mind murdering their own citizens to gain support to go to war.... http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
You are correct, this is the world's largest cover-up. They have done bad things in the past therefore they are capable of everything and anything in a bad way. And of course, we kill our citizens everyday. What else can we add to this list in order to avoid a bit of common sense. Anyone else find it a little ironic that a group calling themselves "truthers" don't really seek it, instead attempt to project their own political leanings upon parties which have no factual proof of guilt? Do these people not believe in "innocent before proven guilty"? Kind of important in defending our nation, yet its thrown to the wind because it suits their needs. I still say Bigfoot did 9-11 and you can't disprove me or reveal evidence otherwise, so I must be right or my opinion must atleast be considered legit.
what wasn't correct? did the reporter see plane parts at a later time?
"can you give us any idea on how much of the plane actually impacted the building?"
"from my close up inspection there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the pentagon...."
i guess he didn't notice the tail section because a leaf was on top of it or something?
and obviously there have been those in government for decades that don't mind murdering their own citizens to gain support to go to war.... http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
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so ... you are saying then that there was absolutely no gov't conspiracy?
all these issues are indeed different but it appears the rigidity by which you seem to have for those who believe in a conspiracy fluctuates based on the issue and your own beliefs ...
And everyone's beliefs sway in terms of what they deem possible, likely, legitimate or even factual. I have an open door to whatever the facts or details which are stated... have said that from the beginning. You seem to discredit that because I don't adhere to yours or ryan's comments, opinions or postings.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i'm not the one marginalizing others opinions on this matter
So, to satisfy the 'scientific explanation'...you are saying the only way that those towers could have collapsed at free fall speed is from explosives, right? Do you agree that this would mean that enough explosives would have to be put on every single floor and had to have completely demolished/obliterated the whole structure of every single floor?
-and-
Scientifically, (in order to 'trick' all the witnesses into believing that it wasnt demolished on purpose) each floor would have to explode in a domino effect starting from the top, each descending floor detonating split seconds apart.
Do you agree with that?
Your freefall collapse argument means Nothing scientifically.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
if there were explosives - it means that the official story now has holes - the official story put forth by the gov't ... similar to any court trial - the witness (in this case the gov't) would lose all credibility ...
as far as the line goes ... it doesn't really matter where anyone draws the line - that's my entire point ... it's completely subjective ... i just don't see how it's beneficial here ...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
That is what I am saying. Yes. There were a motherfuckin shitload of explosives laced throughout that entire building, in a controlled demolition manner, with exactly what you are saying, timing devices to daisy chain the whole explosion down. Any evidence of this? YES. How about the fact that every bit of concrete in the entire building was blown to DUST! Not rubble, dust! Like it was...exploded. :shock: And that also goes back to my original point, of it being an "inside job".
AGAIN, I never implicated "the government". That is an ignorant narrow minded view of this socio-politcal structure anyway. There is not one unified "government". There are many divided factions within its ranks, some acting with impunity, some above reproach.
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
You do realize that the properties of steel change as it is heated and it becomes more ductile, long before it reaches its melting point. I mean if it didn't how the hell would a blacksmith be able to make things since those guys aren't working with liquid metal?
Do you realize how difficult it would be to obtain this many TONS of explosives, deliver these TONS of explosives, smuggle tons of explosives into the building, store these tons of explosives in the building, then access the points (probably more than four points) on over 100 floors, get inside the infrastructure of the walls and place these explosives, wire these tons of explosives, and have them go off flawlessly in succession on over 100 floors?
No to mention doing this ONCE, but TWICE? Oh, no wait, THREE TIMES!? Inconceivable in my mind! But that’s just me I guess.
So, what we’re saying here is that someone got away with smuggling probably thousands of TONS of explosives into over 200 floors of three separate buildings where 100’s of thousands of people are, and nobody noticed? Again, maybe it’s just me, but that is fucking ludicrous.
Seriously, how many people do you think would have to be in on working these explosives to pull this off, and over what kind of time period? it would take months to do this with hundreds of people. The chances that this squeaked by and NOBODY ever talked is insane.
And, all the concrete tower was NOT reduced to dust. Absolutely not, in no way shape or form is that saying correct.
+1
So, I have a question: (it’s very theoretical, so this is all speculation of course)
What if there WAS a conspiracy behind 9-11 and the government (or whoever was behind it, state who you think was behind it) was proven to have been deceitful and arranged and covered-up the murder of over 3,000 U.S. citizens among others. What would be the repercussions if your conspiracy theories were proven to be true?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR30Ihks ... L&index=11
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
this is from a post i made after watching the 1st 1/2 of that very special:
i caught part of this national geographic special, inside 9/11. sadly i only saw the 80's through mid 90's. but a few observations.
the entire time span of the muhjadeen it only mentioned the CIA 2 times. the first time it said only the CIA was there. the 2nd time is to say the CIA gave them the stinger rockets which allowed them to shoot down the helicopters.
there's no mention of US/CIA and other countries funding of this, in fact they make it look like islamic 'charities' funded them.
when they get to the part of bin laden creating what would become al qaeda, again, they make no mention of US and other countries dumping a lot of funds into it, bin laden was working with the CIA when he created this group. the only mention they make of the funding is making it seem like bin laden funded it entirely saying he used some of his fortune to create the group.
so, a little on the sloppy side, i'd say, in not mentioning the foreign governments who pumped money into him/them and never mentioned the ISI who were the go betweens for the CIA and muhjadeen, they helped distribute the money as well but none of this is mentioned, it's made to seem like it's 100% islamic funding
so, they weren't completely factual in the 1st 1/2 of the program, i'm sure the 2nd 1/2 is where it started become factual :roll:
and why did the stories about a van with a bomb inside it on the gw bridge being stopped and the 5 people videotaping the towers burning, while they cheered, disappear so quickly?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
it's already been proven they lied to us about things, the 9/11 commission themselves thought about criminal charges because of the lies they were being told by people in the government and how they wouldn't allow the commission access to lots of things or when they did they would only allow a few to see it and they weren't allowed to take notes. why wouldn't bush and cheney testify alone or under oath? the FBI admitted the guy who said his wife called him from 1 of the planes and told him terrorists hijacked the plane with boxcutters (the only source for the boxcutter story) was made up, his wife NEVER CALLED HIM and yet the boxcutter thing is a fact to most people despite being completely untrue.
as i've said numerous times i don't know what happened but they lied too many times in regards to what happened for me to trust their account. and for the people who think some members wouldn't care if less than 3,000 americans died in the event how many have died from inadequate protection in Iraq and Afghanistan? the amount of people that die in the US from not having health care is equal to several 9/11s and they don't care about that. i forgot the number of people that die from factors from pollution and that administration did fuckall to cut that down, even going so far as to say they don't think carbon dioxide is even a pollutant!
Cheney was asked years ago how his company, Halliburton, could do business with countries having horrible human rights abuses and his reply was it was easy, he didn't think about it. to some of these people only the bottom line matters, just as Cheney didn't mind then or how he didn't mind that over 75% of the deaths when we invaded Panama were innocent civilians so why would they mind if less than 3,000 people died? that is a very low % population wise, not even 1% of US citizens.
just like when Rumsfeld was asked about going to war without the proper protection and equipment for our troops he shrugged it off and said 'you go to war with the military you have, not the military you wish you had' but it's already been proven they had been planning this attack for months, so it wasn't a spur of the moment thing, they knew and they just didn't care to spend the money on our troops and you expect me to believe they'd care about
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxWMDTuh ... r_embedded
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
Yesterday there was an article on yahoo about how 70-80% of Americans believe that god helps people with decisions. We view this as "faith"...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100310/sc_livescience/godhelpswithpersonaldecisionsmostamericanssay
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
well, i can't argue with you on this as i've never seen any version of loose change
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
what wasn't correct? did the reporter see plane parts at a later time?
"can you give us any idea on how much of the plane actually impacted the building?"
"from my close up inspection there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the pentagon...."
i guess he didn't notice the tail section because a leaf was on top of it or something?
and obviously there have been those in government for decades that don't mind murdering their own citizens to gain support to go to war....
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis