I think it's a good trade for both teams. I wish kolb the best in Arizona. Through all the nonsense of the past few years he handled himself admirably. Class act all the way.
Andy Reid is the man. Great work getting a solid return in this deal. Hopefully kolb has a solid year and the cards go 3-13 :thumbup: .
Defense is already much improved from last year. Thank god
wasn't it just yesterday everyone here and on TV was saying how the Eagles had no leverage anymore and were panicking about the situation? funny how the people actually involved seem to know a bit more than sometimes given credit for
seriously.
everyone just wants to rip reid to shreds. the guy is the best thing to ever happen to this franchise.
eagles, saints, chargers only teams left in pursuit of sproles.
I think it's a good trade for both teams. I wish kolb the best in Arizona. Through all the nonsense of the past few years he handled himself admirably. Class act all the way.
Andy Reid is the man. Great work getting a solid return in this deal. Hopefully kolb has a solid year and the cards go 3-13 :thumbup: .
Defense is already much improved from last year. Thank god
wasn't it just yesterday everyone here and on TV was saying how the Eagles had no leverage anymore and were panicking about the situation? funny how the people actually involved seem to know a bit more than sometimes given credit for
...and now we're ripping the cardinals because andy reid and joe banner just gang raped that entire organization.
you admitted yesterday you haven't followed things closely. they were down to just one team to trade him to. so their leverage appeared to have weakened. that's common sense.
all things considered, i assumed all along we'd get either a 2nd or a 3rd and drc. knew it was the cards all along. nothing surprising other than it being a 2nd and not a 3rd or a 4th after all the other teams picked up qb's in the last few days.
things are shaping up gentlemen :thumbup: :thumbup:
I think it's a good trade for both teams. I wish kolb the best in Arizona. Through all the nonsense of the past few years he handled himself admirably. Class act all the way.
Andy Reid is the man. Great work getting a solid return in this deal. Hopefully kolb has a solid year and the cards go 3-13 :thumbup: .
Defense is already much improved from last year. Thank god
wasn't it just yesterday everyone here and on TV was saying how the Eagles had no leverage anymore and were panicking about the situation? funny how the people actually involved seem to know a bit more than sometimes given credit for
...and now we're ripping the cardinals because andy reid and joe banner just gang raped that entire organization.
you admitted yesterday you haven't followed things closely. they were down to just one team to trade him to. so their leverage appeared to have weakened. that's common sense.
all things considered, i assumed all along we'd get either a 2nd or a 3rd for drc. knew it was the cards all along. nothing surprising other than it being a 2nd and not a 3rd or a 4th after all the other teams picked up qb's in the last few days.
things are shaping up gentlemen :thumbup: :thumbup:
I admitted I haven't followed the lockout closely.
wasn't it just yesterday everyone here and on TV was saying how the Eagles had no leverage anymore and were panicking about the situation? funny how the people actually involved seem to know a bit more than sometimes given credit for
...and now we're ripping the cardinals because andy reid and joe banner just gang raped that entire organization.
you admitted yesterday you haven't followed things closely. they were down to just one team to trade him to. so their leverage appeared to have weakened. that's common sense.
all things considered, i assumed all along we'd get either a 2nd or a 3rd for drc. knew it was the cards all along. nothing surprising other than it being a 2nd and not a 3rd or a 4th after all the other teams picked up qb's in the last few days.
things are shaping up gentlemen :thumbup: :thumbup:
I admitted I haven't followed the lockout closely.
Seeing the birds in on Tulloch and possibly barnett. sounds like tulloch is their first choice. I'm guessing bradley is their fallback plan at this point
KC Joyner: From Philadelphia's perspective, this deal will be worth it if it gets the 2009 version of cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. DRC tallied 5.8 yards per attempt (YPA) in coverage that season, a mark that ranked 18th in the league. The 2010 version of Rodgers-Cromartie was not nearly as good, as his YPA jumped to 8.1 yards (tied for 57th).
History says it's likely we will see the 2009 edition of DRC, as Philadelphia's success rate at helping cornerbacks play to their maximum potential has been top-notch over the years. Heck, it even pulled a couple of decent performances out of coverage liability Dimitri Patterson last season.
From Arizona's perspective, this deal has many ways it could end up being a losing proposition. The Cardinals had a weakness at one cornerback position last year and now still have that flaw despite the addition of No. 5 draft pick Patrick Peterson. Derek Anderson made a ton of mistakes last year, and Kolb is not an improvement in that area (a key reason he was at the top of the list of the 10 riskiest free agents. All of that would be enough, but the Cardinals also gave up a second-round draft pick in the process.
Kolb may end up playing to his potential and salvaging this move for Arizona, but if he doesn't, this trade will go down as a huge error.
Chris Sprow: Arizona fans may see just 0.8 win differential and think computer projections are too hard on Kolb, but remember that 0.8 wins isn't a totally insignificant number because the reality with Kolb is that his reputation far exceeds his sample size. As we wrote a few weeks ago, he has a profile that could easily be Matt Schaub's before he was dealt to Houston -- or A.J. Feeley's before he was sent to Miami after a brief run as the backup hero in Philly. Kolb has Arizona's faith, but statistically, he's still a bit of a leap.
Arizona Cardinals WINS WIN% WIN DIV PLAYOFFS
w/ John Skelton 5.8 36.3% 10.1% 11.9%
w/ Kevin Kolb 6.6 41.3% 18.0% 19.2%
Kolb Impact 0.8 5.0% 7.9% 7.3%
Rivers McCown (Football Outsiders): Babin was one of the most intriguing players on the market this offseason. There are some on our staff who think he's a little overrated after one big season, but he's not costing the Eagles much guaranteed money (around $5 million or $6 million) if the early reports are accurate, and he was one of the best pass-rushing defensive ends in the NFL last season. Babin did the best thing for his career here in sticking with former Titans defensive line coach Jim Washburn, who has a history of getting top performance out of his linemen and helped coach Babin into his 13 sacks. Players who come out of nowhere like this have a history of regression, but with the guaranteed money that the Eagles paid, they aren't really taking too much of a risk.
KC Joyner: From Philadelphia's perspective, this deal will be worth it if it gets the 2009 version of cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. DRC tallied 5.8 yards per attempt (YPA) in coverage that season, a mark that ranked 18th in the league. The 2010 version of Rodgers-Cromartie was not nearly as good, as his YPA jumped to 8.1 yards (tied for 57th).
History says it's likely we will see the 2009 edition of DRC, as Philadelphia's success rate at helping cornerbacks play to their maximum potential has been top-notch over the years. Heck, it even pulled a couple of decent performances out of coverage liability Dimitri Patterson last season.
From Arizona's perspective, this deal has many ways it could end up being a losing proposition. The Cardinals had a weakness at one cornerback position last year and now still have that flaw despite the addition of No. 5 draft pick Patrick Peterson. Derek Anderson made a ton of mistakes last year, and Kolb is not an improvement in that area (a key reason he was at the top of the list of the 10 riskiest free agents. All of that would be enough, but the Cardinals also gave up a second-round draft pick in the process.
Kolb may end up playing to his potential and salvaging this move for Arizona, but if he doesn't, this trade will go down as a huge error.
Chris Sprow: Arizona fans may see just 0.8 win differential and think computer projections are too hard on Kolb, but remember that 0.8 wins isn't a totally insignificant number because the reality with Kolb is that his reputation far exceeds his sample size. As we wrote a few weeks ago, he has a profile that could easily be Matt Schaub's before he was dealt to Houston -- or A.J. Feeley's before he was sent to Miami after a brief run as the backup hero in Philly. Kolb has Arizona's faith, but statistically, he's still a bit of a leap.
Arizona Cardinals WINS WIN% WIN DIV PLAYOFFS
w/ John Skelton 5.8 36.3% 10.1% 11.9%
w/ Kevin Kolb 6.6 41.3% 18.0% 19.2%
Kolb Impact 0.8 5.0% 7.9% 7.3%
KC Joyner writes some really stupid articles. I do like the trade, but he's a turd
KC Joyner: From Philadelphia's perspective, this deal will be worth it if it gets the 2009 version of cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. DRC tallied 5.8 yards per attempt (YPA) in coverage that season, a mark that ranked 18th in the league. The 2010 version of Rodgers-Cromartie was not nearly as good, as his YPA jumped to 8.1 yards (tied for 57th).
History says it's likely we will see the 2009 edition of DRC, as Philadelphia's success rate at helping cornerbacks play to their maximum potential has been top-notch over the years. Heck, it even pulled a couple of decent performances out of coverage liability Dimitri Patterson last season.
From Arizona's perspective, this deal has many ways it could end up being a losing proposition. The Cardinals had a weakness at one cornerback position last year and now still have that flaw despite the addition of No. 5 draft pick Patrick Peterson. Derek Anderson made a ton of mistakes last year, and Kolb is not an improvement in that area (a key reason he was at the top of the list of the 10 riskiest free agents. All of that would be enough, but the Cardinals also gave up a second-round draft pick in the process.
Kolb may end up playing to his potential and salvaging this move for Arizona, but if he doesn't, this trade will go down as a huge error.
Chris Sprow: Arizona fans may see just 0.8 win differential and think computer projections are too hard on Kolb, but remember that 0.8 wins isn't a totally insignificant number because the reality with Kolb is that his reputation far exceeds his sample size. As we wrote a few weeks ago, he has a profile that could easily be Matt Schaub's before he was dealt to Houston -- or A.J. Feeley's before he was sent to Miami after a brief run as the backup hero in Philly. Kolb has Arizona's faith, but statistically, he's still a bit of a leap.
Arizona Cardinals WINS WIN% WIN DIV PLAYOFFS
w/ John Skelton 5.8 36.3% 10.1% 11.9%
w/ Kevin Kolb 6.6 41.3% 18.0% 19.2%
Kolb Impact 0.8 5.0% 7.9% 7.3%
KC Joyner writes some really stupid articles. I do like the trade, but he's a turd
honestly, his shit is kind of like football's version of sabermetrics. i don't agree with all of it, but i like looking at all sorts of different angles. and i think they're on the money here.
the whole "drc being one of the worst tackling cornerbacks last year" came from football outsiders' advanced stats...
As Rosenthal pointed out earlier, I’m fired up about the Cardinals’ decision to give up a 2008 first-round pick (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie) and a 2012 second-round pick for quarterback Kevin Kolb.
In the hopes of making my otherwise hopelessly incoherent ramblings more understandable, I’ve organized my thoughts into 10 separate takes.
Here goes.
1. Eagles know how to coach up quarterbacks.
It’s a point I’ve been making from time to time, both here and in other contexts. Under Andy Reid, the Eagles have gotten the absolute best out of every quarterback they’ve put on the field.
From Donovan McNabb to Mike Vick to A.J. Feeley to Koy Detmer to Jeff Garcia to any other quarterback who has played in any game since 1999 for the Eagles, they have performed better in Philly than anywhere else.
For that reason, any team should have been leery about Kevin Kolb. Regardless of anything Kolb can or can’t do, the smoke-and-mirrors impact of excellent coaching makes guys look better than they are.
Given the deal the Cardinals have done, both via trade compensation and contract, they surely assume they’ll get as much or more out of Kolb than Reid did.
We’re not sure that’s a safe assumption.
2. Kolb remains unproven.
Apart from the fact that the Eagles can get more out of a given quarterback than anyone else, Kolb hasn’t played enough to know whether the Eagles actually have gotten anything truly good out of him.
He has started seven games in four years. In 2009, after McNabb suffered a broken rib in Week One against the Panthers, Kolb became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for 300 or more yards in his first two starts. In his first game, he fell nine yards short of 400 — primarily because the Saints scored 48 points against the Eagles in Philadelphia and Kolb and company were constantly trying to keep pace. (Despite the yardage, Kolb’s passer rating for the game was 53.2, a number low enough to make even Derek Anderson laugh.)
Last year, Kolb entered the season as the starter, got Wally Pipp’d by Michael Vick after a concussion in Week One, and had a chance to turn the tables when Vick missed three games but couldn’t.
Kolb’s passer rating for the season? 76.1.
The best measure of whether a quarterback will be able to thrive at the NFL level comes after about six or seven games of his first season as a full-time starter. By then, opposing defenses have enough tape to break down his strengths and weaknesses, his tendencies and tells. If he can still thrive even after the men charged with stopping him know his game inside and out, he’s the real deal.
Kolb hasn’t played enough to get to that point. And a career passer rating of 73.2 hardly constitutes “thriving” during the time that he has played.
3. Limited time.
In a normal year, we could better understand a blockbuster trade and a big-money contract for a new quarterback. In 2011, with a month or so to slap together preparations for a season, it will be harder than ever for a team to get the most out of a new quarterback.
Kolb had no offseason training program. He has limited opportunities to get to know the system, his teammates, and the coaches.
Put simply, in the all-important first year of this relationship, Kolb will have a harder time than usual providing any sort of a return on the team’s investment.
4. Cheaper alternatives.
Though the Cardinals would have had the problem of compressed prep time with any quarterback they brought in, why not treat 2011 as a self-contained year and get a proven veteran who would be better suited to getting the job done with limited time to prepare?
Matt Hasselbeck knows the NFC West like the contours of his hairless cranium; it would have made much more sense to sign him to a two-year deal as a free agent than to make a Hail Mary pass for a guy who may or may not ever becomes what Hasselbeck currently is.
As a bonuses, Hasselbeck could have helped groom guys like John Skelton and Max Hall, who were rushed into service prematurely last year — and who would benefit from some mentoring from a guy like Hasselbeck.
5. Why the new contract?
Last year, when Kolb became the starter in Philly, he signed a two-year deal. He had one year to go.
So why give him a new contract, reportedly with more than $22 million guaranteed, before knowing what he’ll do in Arizona? Why not wait at least until October, to see how he performs?
Another option would have been to let him play out the season, and to use the franchise tag to keep him for 2012. Sure, it would cost more to lock him up next year if he becomes a star — but if he becomes a star, don’t you think he’s going to want to rip up a contract that doesn’t quite equate to star-level compensation?
6. The pressure’s on Whisenhunt.
I personally like Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt. And this move makes me worry about his long-term job security.
In many respects, he has pushed his chips into the middle of the table. If Kolb turns out to give Whisenhunt a winning hand, he’ll be set for life in Arizona.
If it blows up, Whisenhunt could get blown out of town.
7. Fitzgerald’s future.
Greasing the skids for Whisenhunt could be a decision by receiver Larry Fitzgerald after the season to go elsewhere. He’ll be an unrestricted free agent, and given the terms of his contract the team won’t be able to restrict his movement.
The importance of giving Fitzgerald a quarterback about whom he would feel good both this year and beyond probably influenced the organization to opt for something other than a one-year solution.
But if Kolb’s first year isn’t a good year, the Cardinals will be in even worse position than if they’d signed a veteran like Hasselbeck.
8. Eagles need a backup.
Let’s not make this all about how the Cardinals potentially screwed up. The Eagles have put themselves in a delicate position at the most important position on the field.
Mike Vick’s style suggests that, at some point this year, he’ll get hurt. If he does, will the Eagles rely on Mike Kafka?
Given the team’s ability to coach up quarterbacks, maybe they will. (And if he does well, maybe they can get a second-round pick or more for him, too.) Eagles fans will rest much more easily, however, if they know that the team has a guy who has been around the block a few items.
Even if that guy is Brett Favre.
9. The Sting, Part 3.
The Kolb trade marks the third time in seven years that the Eagles have gotten at least a second-round pick in trade for a quarterback. In 2004, they conned the Dolphins out of a second-rounder for A.J. Feeley, who would be traded a year later to the Chargers. A year after that, Feeley came back to Philly as a free agent.
Last year, the Eagles got a second-round pick and a fourth-round pick for McNabb from the Redskins. And the Redskins just gave McNabb to the Vikings for a carton of smokes.
Apart from all the points made above, the Cardinals should have been leery based simply on the fact that the Eagles know when and how to sell high.
10. What was the next offer?
The question to which we may never know the answer is whether the Eagles could have sold Kolb that high to anyone else. Usually, trade value is determined by the alternatives.
So what alternatives did the Eagles have to the Cardinals?
It could be that the Eagles sold the Cardinals on the notion that the alternative to a second-round pick and Rodgers-Cromartie was to keep Kolb. If so, the Cardinals should have called their bluff.
Look, I realize that Kolb could end up being the next Joe Montana. If so, the gamble will have paid off.
What bothers me is the gamble itself. The Cardinals are taking too much of a risk with too few tangible reasons to assume there will be a reward — and plenty of reasons to fear there won’t be.
honestly, his shit is kind of like football's version of sabermetrics. i don't agree with all of it, but i like looking at all sorts of different angles. and i think they're on the money here.
the whole "drc being one of the worst tackling cornerbacks last year" came from football outsiders' advanced stats...
defensive MLB sabermetrics I'd agree with. certainly not offensive. MLB offensive stats are tangible. most NFL stats that joyner writes about are arbitrary
honestly, his shit is kind of like football's version of sabermetrics. i don't agree with all of it, but i like looking at all sorts of different angles. and i think they're on the money here.
the whole "drc being one of the worst tackling cornerbacks last year" came from football outsiders' advanced stats...
defensive MLB sabermetrics I'd agree with. certainly not offensive. MLB offensive stats are tangible. most NFL stats that joyner writes about are arbitrary
honestly, his shit is kind of like football's version of sabermetrics. i don't agree with all of it, but i like looking at all sorts of different angles. and i think they're on the money here.
the whole "drc being one of the worst tackling cornerbacks last year" came from football outsiders' advanced stats...
defensive MLB sabermetrics I'd agree with. certainly not offensive. MLB offensive stats are tangible. most NFL stats that joyner writes about are arbitrary
always thought defensive sabermetric stats were a "work in progress." :?
..
they are. because there is no tangible data to extrapolate. stats like UZR and the like are based more on opinions than hard data. joyner's stupid articles are based on similar premise.
always thought defensive sabermetric stats were a "work in progress." :?
..
they are. because there is no tangible data to extrapolate. stats like UZR and the like are based more on opinions than hard data. joyner's stupid articles are based on similar premise.
the way you worded that post was confusing to me for some reason.
yeah some of that stuff is arbitrary. some of it's not. football outsiders, don't believe joyner is associated with them, is always an interesting read.
either way, i think joyner and the other guy are right on point with this trade. seems to be the majority of opinion. time will tell though. looking forward to the cards game at the linc this year.
Comments
seriously.
everyone just wants to rip reid to shreds. the guy is the best thing to ever happen to this franchise.
eagles, saints, chargers only teams left in pursuit of sproles.
...and now we're ripping the cardinals because andy reid and joe banner just gang raped that entire organization.
you admitted yesterday you haven't followed things closely. they were down to just one team to trade him to. so their leverage appeared to have weakened. that's common sense.
all things considered, i assumed all along we'd get either a 2nd or a 3rd and drc. knew it was the cards all along. nothing surprising other than it being a 2nd and not a 3rd or a 4th after all the other teams picked up qb's in the last few days.
things are shaping up gentlemen :thumbup: :thumbup:
I admitted I haven't followed the lockout closely.
man, you brutal lately
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
i was not talking to you, guy.
gotta do something here. i hope they end up bringing stu back.
kirk morrison is another option though...
Ha, awesome. We have been battling so I just assumed it was me.
Anyway, I'm exhausted from our recent back and forth. I'm calling a truce. for a while anyway
hmm, interesting. he'd be a fullback that couldn't block or catch, but would score 25 1 yard TDs a year
and apparently washburn has been giving te'o nesheim the business all day long
I read herremans is the favorite to win the RT job.
peters, mcglynn, jackson, watkins, herremans
mcglynn or justice looks like the odd man out.
epsn's instant analysis:
QB Kevin Kolb to be traded to Arizona Cardinals
KC Joyner: From Philadelphia's perspective, this deal will be worth it if it gets the 2009 version of cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. DRC tallied 5.8 yards per attempt (YPA) in coverage that season, a mark that ranked 18th in the league. The 2010 version of Rodgers-Cromartie was not nearly as good, as his YPA jumped to 8.1 yards (tied for 57th).
History says it's likely we will see the 2009 edition of DRC, as Philadelphia's success rate at helping cornerbacks play to their maximum potential has been top-notch over the years. Heck, it even pulled a couple of decent performances out of coverage liability Dimitri Patterson last season.
From Arizona's perspective, this deal has many ways it could end up being a losing proposition. The Cardinals had a weakness at one cornerback position last year and now still have that flaw despite the addition of No. 5 draft pick Patrick Peterson. Derek Anderson made a ton of mistakes last year, and Kolb is not an improvement in that area (a key reason he was at the top of the list of the 10 riskiest free agents. All of that would be enough, but the Cardinals also gave up a second-round draft pick in the process.
Kolb may end up playing to his potential and salvaging this move for Arizona, but if he doesn't, this trade will go down as a huge error.
Chris Sprow: Arizona fans may see just 0.8 win differential and think computer projections are too hard on Kolb, but remember that 0.8 wins isn't a totally insignificant number because the reality with Kolb is that his reputation far exceeds his sample size. As we wrote a few weeks ago, he has a profile that could easily be Matt Schaub's before he was dealt to Houston -- or A.J. Feeley's before he was sent to Miami after a brief run as the backup hero in Philly. Kolb has Arizona's faith, but statistically, he's still a bit of a leap.
Arizona Cardinals WINS WIN% WIN DIV PLAYOFFS
w/ John Skelton 5.8 36.3% 10.1% 11.9%
w/ Kevin Kolb 6.6 41.3% 18.0% 19.2%
Kolb Impact 0.8 5.0% 7.9% 7.3%
DE Jason Babin to sign with Philadelphia Eagles
Rivers McCown (Football Outsiders): Babin was one of the most intriguing players on the market this offseason. There are some on our staff who think he's a little overrated after one big season, but he's not costing the Eagles much guaranteed money (around $5 million or $6 million) if the early reports are accurate, and he was one of the best pass-rushing defensive ends in the NFL last season. Babin did the best thing for his career here in sticking with former Titans defensive line coach Jim Washburn, who has a history of getting top performance out of his linemen and helped coach Babin into his 13 sacks. Players who come out of nowhere like this have a history of regression, but with the guaranteed money that the Eagles paid, they aren't really taking too much of a risk.
KC Joyner writes some really stupid articles. I do like the trade, but he's a turd
honestly, his shit is kind of like football's version of sabermetrics. i don't agree with all of it, but i like looking at all sorts of different angles. and i think they're on the money here.
the whole "drc being one of the worst tackling cornerbacks last year" came from football outsiders' advanced stats...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... olb-trade/
10 takes on the Kolb trade
Posted by Mike Florio on July 28, 2011, 5:58 PM EDT
As Rosenthal pointed out earlier, I’m fired up about the Cardinals’ decision to give up a 2008 first-round pick (Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie) and a 2012 second-round pick for quarterback Kevin Kolb.
In the hopes of making my otherwise hopelessly incoherent ramblings more understandable, I’ve organized my thoughts into 10 separate takes.
Here goes.
1. Eagles know how to coach up quarterbacks.
It’s a point I’ve been making from time to time, both here and in other contexts. Under Andy Reid, the Eagles have gotten the absolute best out of every quarterback they’ve put on the field.
From Donovan McNabb to Mike Vick to A.J. Feeley to Koy Detmer to Jeff Garcia to any other quarterback who has played in any game since 1999 for the Eagles, they have performed better in Philly than anywhere else.
For that reason, any team should have been leery about Kevin Kolb. Regardless of anything Kolb can or can’t do, the smoke-and-mirrors impact of excellent coaching makes guys look better than they are.
Given the deal the Cardinals have done, both via trade compensation and contract, they surely assume they’ll get as much or more out of Kolb than Reid did.
We’re not sure that’s a safe assumption.
2. Kolb remains unproven.
Apart from the fact that the Eagles can get more out of a given quarterback than anyone else, Kolb hasn’t played enough to know whether the Eagles actually have gotten anything truly good out of him.
He has started seven games in four years. In 2009, after McNabb suffered a broken rib in Week One against the Panthers, Kolb became the first quarterback in NFL history to throw for 300 or more yards in his first two starts. In his first game, he fell nine yards short of 400 — primarily because the Saints scored 48 points against the Eagles in Philadelphia and Kolb and company were constantly trying to keep pace. (Despite the yardage, Kolb’s passer rating for the game was 53.2, a number low enough to make even Derek Anderson laugh.)
Last year, Kolb entered the season as the starter, got Wally Pipp’d by Michael Vick after a concussion in Week One, and had a chance to turn the tables when Vick missed three games but couldn’t.
Kolb’s passer rating for the season? 76.1.
The best measure of whether a quarterback will be able to thrive at the NFL level comes after about six or seven games of his first season as a full-time starter. By then, opposing defenses have enough tape to break down his strengths and weaknesses, his tendencies and tells. If he can still thrive even after the men charged with stopping him know his game inside and out, he’s the real deal.
Kolb hasn’t played enough to get to that point. And a career passer rating of 73.2 hardly constitutes “thriving” during the time that he has played.
3. Limited time.
In a normal year, we could better understand a blockbuster trade and a big-money contract for a new quarterback. In 2011, with a month or so to slap together preparations for a season, it will be harder than ever for a team to get the most out of a new quarterback.
Kolb had no offseason training program. He has limited opportunities to get to know the system, his teammates, and the coaches.
Put simply, in the all-important first year of this relationship, Kolb will have a harder time than usual providing any sort of a return on the team’s investment.
4. Cheaper alternatives.
Though the Cardinals would have had the problem of compressed prep time with any quarterback they brought in, why not treat 2011 as a self-contained year and get a proven veteran who would be better suited to getting the job done with limited time to prepare?
Matt Hasselbeck knows the NFC West like the contours of his hairless cranium; it would have made much more sense to sign him to a two-year deal as a free agent than to make a Hail Mary pass for a guy who may or may not ever becomes what Hasselbeck currently is.
As a bonuses, Hasselbeck could have helped groom guys like John Skelton and Max Hall, who were rushed into service prematurely last year — and who would benefit from some mentoring from a guy like Hasselbeck.
5. Why the new contract?
Last year, when Kolb became the starter in Philly, he signed a two-year deal. He had one year to go.
So why give him a new contract, reportedly with more than $22 million guaranteed, before knowing what he’ll do in Arizona? Why not wait at least until October, to see how he performs?
Another option would have been to let him play out the season, and to use the franchise tag to keep him for 2012. Sure, it would cost more to lock him up next year if he becomes a star — but if he becomes a star, don’t you think he’s going to want to rip up a contract that doesn’t quite equate to star-level compensation?
6. The pressure’s on Whisenhunt.
I personally like Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt. And this move makes me worry about his long-term job security.
In many respects, he has pushed his chips into the middle of the table. If Kolb turns out to give Whisenhunt a winning hand, he’ll be set for life in Arizona.
If it blows up, Whisenhunt could get blown out of town.
7. Fitzgerald’s future.
Greasing the skids for Whisenhunt could be a decision by receiver Larry Fitzgerald after the season to go elsewhere. He’ll be an unrestricted free agent, and given the terms of his contract the team won’t be able to restrict his movement.
The importance of giving Fitzgerald a quarterback about whom he would feel good both this year and beyond probably influenced the organization to opt for something other than a one-year solution.
But if Kolb’s first year isn’t a good year, the Cardinals will be in even worse position than if they’d signed a veteran like Hasselbeck.
8. Eagles need a backup.
Let’s not make this all about how the Cardinals potentially screwed up. The Eagles have put themselves in a delicate position at the most important position on the field.
Mike Vick’s style suggests that, at some point this year, he’ll get hurt. If he does, will the Eagles rely on Mike Kafka?
Given the team’s ability to coach up quarterbacks, maybe they will. (And if he does well, maybe they can get a second-round pick or more for him, too.) Eagles fans will rest much more easily, however, if they know that the team has a guy who has been around the block a few items.
Even if that guy is Brett Favre.
9. The Sting, Part 3.
The Kolb trade marks the third time in seven years that the Eagles have gotten at least a second-round pick in trade for a quarterback. In 2004, they conned the Dolphins out of a second-rounder for A.J. Feeley, who would be traded a year later to the Chargers. A year after that, Feeley came back to Philly as a free agent.
Last year, the Eagles got a second-round pick and a fourth-round pick for McNabb from the Redskins. And the Redskins just gave McNabb to the Vikings for a carton of smokes.
Apart from all the points made above, the Cardinals should have been leery based simply on the fact that the Eagles know when and how to sell high.
10. What was the next offer?
The question to which we may never know the answer is whether the Eagles could have sold Kolb that high to anyone else. Usually, trade value is determined by the alternatives.
So what alternatives did the Eagles have to the Cardinals?
It could be that the Eagles sold the Cardinals on the notion that the alternative to a second-round pick and Rodgers-Cromartie was to keep Kolb. If so, the Cardinals should have called their bluff.
Look, I realize that Kolb could end up being the next Joe Montana. If so, the gamble will have paid off.
What bothers me is the gamble itself. The Cardinals are taking too much of a risk with too few tangible reasons to assume there will be a reward — and plenty of reasons to fear there won’t be.
defensive MLB sabermetrics I'd agree with. certainly not offensive. MLB offensive stats are tangible. most NFL stats that joyner writes about are arbitrary
yeah, that does suck
vince young saying he wants to come to philly.
huh?
good move. not much else left to choose from anyway.
not sure what youre confused about.
agree about young. better than favre
sav to the skins...
they are. because there is no tangible data to extrapolate. stats like UZR and the like are based more on opinions than hard data. joyner's stupid articles are based on similar premise.
the way you worded that post was confusing to me for some reason.
yeah some of that stuff is arbitrary. some of it's not. football outsiders, don't believe joyner is associated with them, is always an interesting read.
either way, i think joyner and the other guy are right on point with this trade. seems to be the majority of opinion. time will tell though. looking forward to the cards game at the linc this year.