my god why do these threads always end up the same...
the poster made a nice request for info, thats all, he gets fucking lambasted for his troubles by the minority. He has a point, he might not get a reply, but hey thats down to the mods.
I had countless vedder solo posts removed for little reason and it is annoying, especially with no explanation.
Seriosuly an answer on forthcoming boots wouldnt be so difficult now would it??
Even to say there are no plans, would ensure a lot of needless threads are started dreaming about potential boots.
He was respectful and polite when he exposed his thoughts, hopefully everyone reading his thoughts will be respectful and polite whether they agree with them or not.
I'm reading his thoughts but at the same time I am bending spoons.
"I don't believe in PJ fans but I believe there is something, not too sure what." - Thoughts_Arrive
Good morning! I just caught up on this from last night, and for those that respectfully responded (whether they agreed or disagreed), thank you for your thoughts. For those that were disrespectful, I hope you feel better after getting all of that out of your system.
I shouldn't need to defend my post, but I feel I should at the very least, re-state that I don't think the band owes us anything other than what we pay for (the music that we buy). The Ten Club is doing us a service by offering tix, exclusive merchandise, the occassional 'tweets', etc. I appreciate all of that. I did not mean to lambast them or complain or criticize them - that was not the agenda. I simply and respectfully asked for something which I may or may not receive, which is info or context when possible.
I did receive a response to my PM to Kat, so thank you Kat... I really appreciate that. Even though the response was not necessarily substantive, it was a response to close the loop... which is all I asked for.
Thanks again for all of your support and your thoughts.
Andy
For those who scoff at "Jamily" in my name... 9 years ago, when my first daughter was born there were jokes about whether my priority would be my family or PJ. I smiled and quipped "I am a JamilyMan." What was a family joke became a hated term among jammers. Didn't see that one coming!
Good morning! I just caught up on this from last night, and for those that respectfully responded (whether they agreed or disagreed), thank you for your thoughts. For those that were disrespectful, I hope you feel better after getting all of that out of your system.
I shouldn't need to defend my post, but I feel I should at the very least, re-state that I don't think the band owes us anything other than what we pay for (the music that we buy). The Ten Club is doing us a service by offering tix, exclusive merchandise, the occassional 'tweets', etc. I appreciate all of that. I did not mean to lambast them or complain or criticize them - that was not the agenda. I simply and respectfully asked for something which I may or may not receive, which is info or context when possible.
I did receive a response to my PM to Kat, so thank you Kat... I really appreciate that. Even though the response was not necessarily substantive, it was a response to close the loop... which is all I asked for.
Thanks again for all of your support and your thoughts.
Andy
I think most of us understood your point and thought you presented it in a very respectful manner
"Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
...Even though the response was not necessarily substantive...
Andy
It would never be enough for you and it is extremely selfcentered of you to think that you are owed a detailed explantion on these decisions. GIVE THEM A BREAK. If they were to give detailed answers people like you would hold them to every word of the explanation. God forbid they have to make a change at the last minute. Have you ever thought that they don't want to open themselves up to any legal issues. You are being selfish.
so do you hold down the shift key every time you type a new word or do you have an 'on switch' of sorts?
haha, I was thinking the same thing
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It would never be enough for you and it is extremely selfcentered of you to think that you are owed a detailed explantion on these decisions. GIVE THEM A BREAK. If they were to give detailed answers people like you would hold them to every word of the explanation. God forbid they have to make a change at the last minute. Have you ever thought that they don't want to open themselves up to any legal issues. You are being selfish.
Thank you, but you misunderstood my point. I was appreciative of the acknowledgement and the response, even if it was not chuck full of info. I responded to her in a PM and thanked her for the response. I do not feel I am owed anything - that was the point of the original post. There is a difference between inquiring about something and feeling you are owed something.
Please don't judge me... you don't know me. If you get to know me and you feel I am self centered or selfish, you can make a decision about me - but to assume I would hold anyone to anything like that, especially litigiously, is far from who I am. And to garner that from a posting or two would be quite irresponsible. Again, thank you for your thoughts, but sadly, you just swung and missed.
For those who scoff at "Jamily" in my name... 9 years ago, when my first daughter was born there were jokes about whether my priority would be my family or PJ. I smiled and quipped "I am a JamilyMan." What was a family joke became a hated term among jammers. Didn't see that one coming!
Well, after we were all subjected to this emotional thread... What was her answer, may I ask?
...but a PM I sent about the Eddie shows...and essentially what she said was that she has no information on any plans.
For those who scoff at "Jamily" in my name... 9 years ago, when my first daughter was born there were jokes about whether my priority would be my family or PJ. I smiled and quipped "I am a JamilyMan." What was a family joke became a hated term among jammers. Didn't see that one coming!
JamilyMan...I don't post as much for a variety of reasons, but I have to say that you presented a respectful and articulate thread that many of us agree with.
I think a lot of the craziness on the board can be cut off in advance with simple responses to legitimate questions.
Mods x 2 have done some very nice things for me (in helping with events), but they've also been suspect to questionable actions.
Communication is key.
Thank you for your thread and I hope the appropriate parties take notice.
Cheers,
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
I completely agree that we are left in the dark about everything until the minute things are happening. Most bands give tons of album updates, post pictures and/or videos from the studio, video blogs or what have you. We get nothing. If its newsworthy, we read it somewhere else. It's on billboard or rolling stone. What would be the harm in having Ed or Mike or Stone or whoever write up a little update saying how things are going every couple months or something? It's like standard for bands to do that. Pearljam.com should be the place I go to find all this information, instead I have to rely on other media outlets. All this is disappointing to me. I'm not protesting, I love Pearl Jam, I love the ten club, I've been a member for five years and I imagine I will be for as long as its an available service but, I do believe a little more transparency is in order. 99.9% of other bands do it, why can't Pearl Jam who has the most loyal, dedicated fan base in the world.
I do believe a little more transparency is in order. 99.9% of other bands do it, why can't Pearl Jam who has the most loyal, dedicated fan base in the world.
99.9% of other bands charge 3x as much for yearly dues and then stiff you on tickets. just sayin. It's still the best 28 cents a week I spend.
anyone but me think this entire thread is a classic case of killing the messenger?
I'm guessing the most logical answer is simply that the mods often do not know the answer/reason for something the band has chosen to do. And I don't say that as a criticism. The definition of moderate is to preside over, not be a spokesperson or PR rep. But of course it's understandable that fans have questions that they want answered, even simple questions that don't seem intrusive at all. But PJ definitely marches to the beat of their own drummer, and I suspect that is one of the things we all really like about the band. So we may never know the "real reason" behind any of their decisions. And I think at the end of the day we just have to accept that about them and respect how they choose to interact with people outside their circle. As long as they keep making music and playing shows, I think we're getting all that we really need anyway.
99.9% of other bands charge 3x as much for yearly dues and then stiff you on tickets. just sayin. It's still the best 28 cents a week I spend.
anyone but me think this entire thread is a classic case of killing the messenger?
I didn't say I didn't appreciate what they do for us, I definitley do. Bands that don't have fan clubs post album updates and stuff like that. You act as if everything a band does for us is at some cost. All i'm asking for is NEWS every once in a while.
Please let me preface this by saying that I am writing this out of respect and do NOT want this to become a fire burning out of control. I don't want to speak on behalf of anyone other than myself, so please understand that I am voicing my concerns only.
I have been a big fan of Pearl Jam since day one. I have spent countless dollars on merchandise ranging from the music, dvds, clothing, posters, Ten Club membership, etc. I consider myself to be a very active and regular customer of the Pearl Jam corporation. I have been a member of the Ten Club for only a few years, but my years of pumping money into the Pearl Jam business started shortly after Ten was released.
As a fan, I am not owed anything other than what I pay for. I am not owed an explanation of every move the band makes, every plan the band has, every reason they make a decision, etc. I totally get that and respect that.
Having said that, I will also say that while I am a fan, I am also a paying customer who chooses to make purchases based on a number of things. As Eddie sang during Lolla, screw BP. Why? Because they are making decisions that go against what many of us believe to be right. I have also heard him promote and discourage other purchases based on what he believed to be right or wrong. That is certainly his perogative and he knows that he infuences a lot of people.
We, as customers of Pearl Jam also can make a decision to support certain products, companies, etc., and that includes the Pearl Jam corporation. I am not saying that people should stop investing in something they hold dear... but I am asking you, as the customer facing voice of the business, to please treat us as customers that you appreciate and respect. What this means is that if there is a reason behind a decision that can be shared, you share it. If you are unable to share the reason behind a decision, that you have the courtesy to say something to that effect. "Eddie has stated that he does not want anyone taking pictures or recording his shows. His reasons are his own, and he asks that people please respect them."
Something as simple as that can derail a train heading down a very negative track very quickly (although not all of it, I am sure). Or, "Eddie does not want these shows taped because we are hoping to release a special DVD with some of the highlights, and Eddie wants people who were not there to see it with his artisitc vision, not a crappy cell phone recorded copy."
When people ask you direct questions, please have the courtesy to answer them in the best way you are able. So, when people ask "Will there be bootlegs of this coming tour?" a simple yes, no, we are in the works trying to make this happen, we have been asked by the band to not talk about this right now, etc. will give people enough info to chew on until an announcement can be made.
A sticky and/or news item stating "we have asked the people putting ___ video on youtube to take it down because of _____. We have deleted the thread about ______ because the band has made it clear that any mention of these topics be removed from the forum. There are ways to treat the fans as respected and appreciated customers, which will go a long way with many of us.
I personally sent you, Kat, a PM about the April Fools tour, and never got any sort of response. I felt put off, as I asked respectfully, did it in private without putting anyone on the spot, and waited patiently for a response. I have been very respectful on this forum, and I treat people with tremendous respect.
I ask that you, as a group, please be a little more open with info, even if that info is that you can't talk about it for whatever reason. While you are not obligated to do this, I would ask that you consider taking better care of the people that have taken care of the band and the entire Pearl Jam corporation.
Thank you for reading this - and considering my thoughts.
Andy
great post Andy. well thought out, sincere and appreciated.
Anyone else thinking that threads like this are directly connected to how many shows are being played. I mean, the less shows there are, the more people become disgruntled and the more threads like this show up.
Anyone else thinking that threads like this are directly connected to how many shows are being played. I mean, the less shows there are, the more people become disgruntled and the more threads like this show up.
i don't. i didn't really get that vibe from what he posted.
information around here is scarce..i usually hear about news anywhere from a few days to a week in advance before you get any word of anything on this board and it wasnt always like this
times change but it makes you appreciate the way things used to be
Anyone else thinking that threads like this are directly connected to how many shows are being played. I mean, the less shows there are, the more people become disgruntled and the more threads like this show up.
But is has nothing to do with the number of shows. I am very fortunate to be in the hub of where they are touring in June, and I am thankful that so many shows are being offered in this area. I am not disgruntled in any way, and I do appreciate that I was able to get tix through the Ten Club. I have been appreciative of many things they have provided, and am not criticizing them. I am simply making a request that they may or may not be able to fulfill. If they are unable to provide more information or context around some of the band/corporation's decision, so be it. That is their right. But, I do have the right to ask.
For those who scoff at "Jamily" in my name... 9 years ago, when my first daughter was born there were jokes about whether my priority would be my family or PJ. I smiled and quipped "I am a JamilyMan." What was a family joke became a hated term among jammers. Didn't see that one coming!
But is has nothing to do with the number of shows. I am very fortunate to be in the hub of where they are touring in June, and I am thankful that so many shows are being offered in this area. I am not disgruntled in any way, and I do appreciate that I was able to get tix through the Ten Club. I have been appreciative of many things they have provided, and am not criticizing them. I am simply making a request that they may or may not be able to fulfill. If they are unable to provide more information or context around some of the band/corporation's decision, so be it. That is their right. But, I do have the right to ask.
point taken. It just seems that after all the touring in the US in 06, there has been a lot more people creating threads to complain about 10c, the mods, the band, the tickets...just about anything. I dont come here much lately because of it...
I didn't say I didn't appreciate what they do for us, I definitley do. Bands that don't have fan clubs post album updates and stuff like that. You act as if everything a band does for us is at some cost. All i'm asking for is NEWS every once in a while.
I totally get what you're saying. But I don't think it's really fair to compare bands since they are often so different from one another. To say that just because one band does something PJ should do it too lumps the band in with everyone else, which I don't think makes much sense. As I said before, they do their own thing and I believe that is one of the things we actually like about them. There are other bands that are a lot more comfortable with exposing more of their private lives as well as the "behind-the-scenes" aspect of their operations. But that's a very individual choice and cannot be considered a standard. If Pearl Jam decides to only communicate through their music releases and performances, so be it. BTW, they do give a lot on stage and there was some great "behind-the-scenes" stuff on the Italy concerts DVD.
Another thing to consider is most other bands at PJ's level have fan clubs run by large companies and/or their label. Artist fan clubs are big business these days, just ask LiveNation. And consequently these companies have resources for generating content as well as agreements with the band/their managers requiring a commitment of the bands level of involvement. Sure, you might get more day-to-day info and faster news updates, but there often is no genuine connection between the fans and the band. It winds up feeling very dry, slick and corporate, like someone just signed a check somewhere and said "we got an album and a tour coming next spring, go make us a fan club."
I definitely appreciate that PJ has taken the time to keep their fan club in-house and home grown this whole time. I'd rather have a connection with them than Sony or a hear-today-gone-tomorrow corporate run fan club. But the trade-off is you have to play by their rules and their preferences on how they interact with their fans. You may not like it at times but I trust it's what they think is best for them and their music, and ultimately that's all that really matters.
But is has nothing to do with the number of shows. I am very fortunate to be in the hub of where they are touring in June, and I am thankful that so many shows are being offered in this area. I am not disgruntled in any way, and I do appreciate that I was able to get tix through the Ten Club. I have been appreciative of many things they have provided, and am not criticizing them. I am simply making a request that they may or may not be able to fulfill. If they are unable to provide more information or context around some of the band/corporation's decision, so be it. That is their right. But, I do have the right to ask.
Your message to the mods was indeed well written and respectful in my opinion and you do have the right to ask.
My question is: Why would you ask?
It is in the corporation's best interest financially to let us know when something is afoot so what's wrong with waiting for the time when they are actually ready to announce something instead of harping on and requesting info about things that may or not be in the works>
Jamilyman, I mean no ill will toward you at all, but I'm one who visits this board just for fun and for information...but the idea held by a certain population here that band info should be free-flowing and readily available at all times, even if it is a simple reply to say "No, there are no boots" or whatever, seems totally ridiculous to me. I wouldn't even expect a 'No' to a yes or no question....then again, I wouldn't ask either
All I have to do is revel in the everyday....then do it again tomorrow
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
I definitely appreciate that PJ has taken the time to keep their fan club in-house and home grown this whole time. I'd rather have a connection with them than Sony or a hear-today-gone-tomorrow corporate run fan club. But the trade-off is you have to play by their rules and their preferences on how they interact with their fans. You may not like it at times but I trust it's what they think is best for them and their music, and ultimately that's all that really matters.
I agree with what you are saying, but you have to concede that times have changed.
There was more communication at one point and then it just stopped. I'm not sure what brought that on.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
I'm one who visits this board just for fun and for information...but the idea held by a certain population here that band info should be free-flowing and readily available at all times, even if it is a simple reply to say "No, there are no boots" or whatever, seems totally ridiculous to me. I wouldn't even expect a 'No' to a yes or no question....then again, I wouldn't ask either
I don't want to step on JamilyMan's answer but I think there was a time when the board wasn't as conservative in the way information and responses were disbursed.
Just my observation.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
I agree with what you are saying, but you have to concede that times have changed.
There was more communication at one point and then it just stopped. I'm not sure what brought that on.
PBM
Yes, you are absolutely correct. And I admit it sucks, speaking 100% from a fan perspective. But I do respect their choice and I'm also sure that it will change again, maybe when there's a new album. We're all a bit older now, the guys have kids and families taking up their time and energy, maybe things are just moving slower in PJ world these days.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. And I admit it sucks, speaking 100% from a fan perspective. But I do respect their choice and I'm also sure that it will change again, maybe when there's a new album. We're all a bit older now, the guys have kids and families taking up their time and energy, maybe things are just moving slower in PJ world these days.
Thats understandable, but at the same time.. how hard is it to type the following sentence and make it a sticky:
"At this time, we are uncertain about the availability of boots for the upcoming tour. More information will be provided as it becomes available".
Not like any of the 5 band members would even have to be the ones to type it.
We're all a bit older now, the guys have kids and families taking up their time and energy, maybe things are just moving slower in PJ world these days.
I absolutely relate and agree with that.
But, answers to simple questions don't come from Edward directly...they have people for that.
A simple liaison between the band and the fans can help a lot of situations.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
Comments
the poster made a nice request for info, thats all, he gets fucking lambasted for his troubles by the minority. He has a point, he might not get a reply, but hey thats down to the mods.
I had countless vedder solo posts removed for little reason and it is annoying, especially with no explanation.
Seriosuly an answer on forthcoming boots wouldnt be so difficult now would it??
Even to say there are no plans, would ensure a lot of needless threads are started dreaming about potential boots.
I'm reading his thoughts but at the same time I am bending spoons.
I shouldn't need to defend my post, but I feel I should at the very least, re-state that I don't think the band owes us anything other than what we pay for (the music that we buy). The Ten Club is doing us a service by offering tix, exclusive merchandise, the occassional 'tweets', etc. I appreciate all of that. I did not mean to lambast them or complain or criticize them - that was not the agenda. I simply and respectfully asked for something which I may or may not receive, which is info or context when possible.
I did receive a response to my PM to Kat, so thank you Kat... I really appreciate that. Even though the response was not necessarily substantive, it was a response to close the loop... which is all I asked for.
Thanks again for all of your support and your thoughts.
Andy
I think most of us understood your point and thought you presented it in a very respectful manner
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It would never be enough for you and it is extremely selfcentered of you to think that you are owed a detailed explantion on these decisions. GIVE THEM A BREAK. If they were to give detailed answers people like you would hold them to every word of the explanation. God forbid they have to make a change at the last minute. Have you ever thought that they don't want to open themselves up to any legal issues. You are being selfish.
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Thank you, but you misunderstood my point. I was appreciative of the acknowledgement and the response, even if it was not chuck full of info. I responded to her in a PM and thanked her for the response. I do not feel I am owed anything - that was the point of the original post. There is a difference between inquiring about something and feeling you are owed something.
Please don't judge me... you don't know me. If you get to know me and you feel I am self centered or selfish, you can make a decision about me - but to assume I would hold anyone to anything like that, especially litigiously, is far from who I am. And to garner that from a posting or two would be quite irresponsible. Again, thank you for your thoughts, but sadly, you just swung and missed.
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...but a PM I sent about the Eddie shows...and essentially what she said was that she has no information on any plans.
I think a lot of the craziness on the board can be cut off in advance with simple responses to legitimate questions.
Mods x 2 have done some very nice things for me (in helping with events), but they've also been suspect to questionable actions.
Communication is key.
Thank you for your thread and I hope the appropriate parties take notice.
Cheers,
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
99.9% of other bands charge 3x as much for yearly dues and then stiff you on tickets. just sayin. It's still the best 28 cents a week I spend.
anyone but me think this entire thread is a classic case of killing the messenger?
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
I didn't say I didn't appreciate what they do for us, I definitley do. Bands that don't have fan clubs post album updates and stuff like that. You act as if everything a band does for us is at some cost. All i'm asking for is NEWS every once in a while.
great post Andy. well thought out, sincere and appreciated.
i don't. i didn't really get that vibe from what he posted.
information around here is scarce..i usually hear about news anywhere from a few days to a week in advance before you get any word of anything on this board and it wasnt always like this
times change but it makes you appreciate the way things used to be
But is has nothing to do with the number of shows. I am very fortunate to be in the hub of where they are touring in June, and I am thankful that so many shows are being offered in this area. I am not disgruntled in any way, and I do appreciate that I was able to get tix through the Ten Club. I have been appreciative of many things they have provided, and am not criticizing them. I am simply making a request that they may or may not be able to fulfill. If they are unable to provide more information or context around some of the band/corporation's decision, so be it. That is their right. But, I do have the right to ask.
point taken. It just seems that after all the touring in the US in 06, there has been a lot more people creating threads to complain about 10c, the mods, the band, the tickets...just about anything. I dont come here much lately because of it...
I totally get what you're saying. But I don't think it's really fair to compare bands since they are often so different from one another. To say that just because one band does something PJ should do it too lumps the band in with everyone else, which I don't think makes much sense. As I said before, they do their own thing and I believe that is one of the things we actually like about them. There are other bands that are a lot more comfortable with exposing more of their private lives as well as the "behind-the-scenes" aspect of their operations. But that's a very individual choice and cannot be considered a standard. If Pearl Jam decides to only communicate through their music releases and performances, so be it. BTW, they do give a lot on stage and there was some great "behind-the-scenes" stuff on the Italy concerts DVD.
Another thing to consider is most other bands at PJ's level have fan clubs run by large companies and/or their label. Artist fan clubs are big business these days, just ask LiveNation. And consequently these companies have resources for generating content as well as agreements with the band/their managers requiring a commitment of the bands level of involvement. Sure, you might get more day-to-day info and faster news updates, but there often is no genuine connection between the fans and the band. It winds up feeling very dry, slick and corporate, like someone just signed a check somewhere and said "we got an album and a tour coming next spring, go make us a fan club."
I definitely appreciate that PJ has taken the time to keep their fan club in-house and home grown this whole time. I'd rather have a connection with them than Sony or a hear-today-gone-tomorrow corporate run fan club. But the trade-off is you have to play by their rules and their preferences on how they interact with their fans. You may not like it at times but I trust it's what they think is best for them and their music, and ultimately that's all that really matters.
My question is: Why would you ask?
It is in the corporation's best interest financially to let us know when something is afoot so what's wrong with waiting for the time when they are actually ready to announce something instead of harping on and requesting info about things that may or not be in the works>
Jamilyman, I mean no ill will toward you at all, but I'm one who visits this board just for fun and for information...but the idea held by a certain population here that band info should be free-flowing and readily available at all times, even if it is a simple reply to say "No, there are no boots" or whatever, seems totally ridiculous to me. I wouldn't even expect a 'No' to a yes or no question....then again, I wouldn't ask either
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong...I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
I agree with what you are saying, but you have to concede that times have changed.
There was more communication at one point and then it just stopped. I'm not sure what brought that on.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
I don't want to step on JamilyMan's answer but I think there was a time when the board wasn't as conservative in the way information and responses were disbursed.
Just my observation.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
Yes, you are absolutely correct. And I admit it sucks, speaking 100% from a fan perspective. But I do respect their choice and I'm also sure that it will change again, maybe when there's a new album. We're all a bit older now, the guys have kids and families taking up their time and energy, maybe things are just moving slower in PJ world these days.
Thats understandable, but at the same time.. how hard is it to type the following sentence and make it a sticky:
"At this time, we are uncertain about the availability of boots for the upcoming tour. More information will be provided as it becomes available".
Not like any of the 5 band members would even have to be the ones to type it.
2005 - 9/15, 9/16, 9/30, 10/1, 10/3
2006 - 5/5, 5/12, 5/13, 5/27, 5/28, 5/30, 6/1, 6/3, 6/23, 7/22, 7/23, 12/2
2007 - 6/27, 8/3
2008 - 6/14, 6/19, 6/20, 6/22, 6/24, 6/25, 6/27, 6/28, 6/30, 7/1
I absolutely relate and agree with that.
But, answers to simple questions don't come from Edward directly...they have people for that.
A simple liaison between the band and the fans can help a lot of situations.
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org