Couple arrested for not paying tip

redrock

Well... I guess if a part of an industry is not prepared to stand up for their rights (minimum wage at least) and decent working conditions, it's not the place of the customer to do so on their behalf or compensate for that. If this is so... this part of the industry just reaps what they sow.... It's their battle - leave the customer out of it.

WaveCameCrashin

redrock wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

I just wanted to know what his name was.

Don't need to know the name to make complaint. All the bus company needs to know is the bus number, date and time......

I was so pissed at the time that I forgot to get the bus #

The Juggler

redrock wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

there is SO MUCH more to it than that. Believe me, a waiters job doesnt begin and end with the ten minutes he or she is at your table.

if you can't afford a decent tip (15% to 20%) for good service dont go to a restaurant. go to Mc Donald's. Waiting tables require too much bullshit for crappy tips. you really arent paying enough for quality service if you tip poorly.

i have very little respect for bad tippers. sorry. if i even catch a friend or relative giving a shitty tip (that isnt called for), i wont go out with them unless they make up for it.

I've been a waitress... I know what it's like. But maybe, due to my age , I was still 'old school' waitress. Very different to what it is now.....

One always expects good service when one goes to the restaurant. That is part of the staff's job - at whatever level. You have a job, you do it well. OK.. you may come back and speak of the 'abuse' waiting/bussing staff get but that's in most professions, just expressed differently (see another thread about the corporate world). A true tip is for EXCEEDINGLY good service, not just the good service one would expect.

As to the poster deciding that the customer should have had his tuna rare but asked for it medium... who is to judge? I like my meat 'blue' and I even like meat raw (steak tartare). A lot of americans (and British!) I know like their meat cooked to death. So what. Making the assumption that they only ordered a main course because they were 'cheap'. Maybe that's all they wanted. Maybe it could be they don't have much money and this was a treat for them... again.. who are you to judge.

And what is this kind of reaction... looking up the people in the phone book. For what? Send 'the guys' around? Check out where they live to see if they are 'worthy' of the restaurant?

As to the rudeness of the guy... the manager should have stepped in. Rudeness is unacceptable but that has nothing to do with tips.

Also the way one pays taxes on tips, that tips are part of your wages, etc... take that up with the government, not with the customers. I don't go in a restaurant asking staff how much they earn, how much of their tip they keep and it their tips are part of their wages. That is not my business. My business is to have a nice meal (whatever I choose, however much I want and however I like it cooked) with good service.

you really do not sound like you waited tables before. based on this story, i don't see how anyone waiting on them could not be upset at such a small tip. you mean to tell me you would be perfectly cool with such a small tip after putting up with their rude behavior and condescending attitude all night?

The Juggler

MrSmith wrote:

redrock wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

there is SO MUCH more to it than that. Believe me, a waiters job doesnt begin and end with the ten minutes he or she is at your table.

if you can't afford a decent tip (15% to 20%) for good service dont go to a restaurant. go to Mc Donald's. Waiting tables require too much bullshit for crappy tips. you really arent paying enough for quality service if you tip poorly.

i have very little respect for bad tippers. sorry. if i even catch a friend or relative giving a shitty tip (that isnt called for), i wont go out with them unless they make up for it.

A true tip is for EXCEEDINGLY good service, not just the good service one would expect.

.

no it isn't, not in this system, and not for the price you pay at a restaurant. a tip is the price you pay for the service, period. if its better than normal, tip more. if its worse, tip less.

and people need to understand this: its BETTER FOR THE CUSTOMER because it gives them a choice of what to pay for service! without it, the bill would just be a lot higher, and the service would suck because they arent motivated to work harder, or else restaurants would just shut down because margins are pretty thin already nowadays. you'd end up with very unfriendly, unknowledgable people shoving you your food like your at McD's. But people have to abuse the system by leaving cheap tips, and it hurts everyone.
.

you hit the nail on the head here sir. well done.

The Juggler

redrock wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

your not getting it. there is no deficiancy. its got nothing to do with wanting something for nothing or with the government or the employer. its already factored in. the bill is cheaper, and customers pay the server for service directly rather than giving it to the restaurant. its a win win. customers get a choice and waiters are motivated to give great service. its just too bad some ignorant people can't handle the responsibilty of having that choice. if more industries could do it, it would be better for them.

But there IS a deficiency..... there is a minimum wage for a reason. Any employer choosing to pay less than that and leaving it up to their employee to compensate IS a deficiency. Legislation allowing such practices IS a deficiency. Nothing is already factored in. If it were, the wages would be decent and the customer will have the REAL choice of leaving a gratuity for exceptional service or not (and whatever amount) without having to read posts like in this thread and without the risk of having his food spat in the next time he visits the restaurant.

This is not a win/win situation for all. It's a win for the employer because he gets away without paying his staff properly, therefore less overheads/more profits for him. How can one not see that the employee is being taken advantage of?

When it comes to motivation.... it should always be there. A waiter/waitress doesn't know ahead of time if the table will tip or not and how much, does he/she?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
it's not a deficiency. it's common knowledge that there is more motivation from an employee if they earn more with better performance.

i'm in sales with no base salary and am waaaaaaaaaaay more motivated to do my job than i would be if my earning potential was capped.

where are you from?

redrock

The Jeagler wrote:

it's common knowledge that there is more motivation from an employee if they earn more with better performance.

Of course it is. Therefore a tip is for better performance. People seem to expect this 'tip' whether they perform or not. And also, I am not talking about capping of wages. Standard (decent - minimum wage?) for standard performance, tips for better performance. So no capping. An excellent waiter/waitress could therefore potentially earn a lot more than those that are just doing the minimum necessary. Same for sales.. no need to cap anything. Basic + commission. The more you sell, the more you get but you still have your basic wage to live on, just in case. Though must be great being an employer in the US... employ staff but don't pay them (or barely pay them) and let them earn their wages via the customer! Cool....

What I read in this thread is that waiting staff are EXPECTING a gratuity, whether or not they perform.

And yes, I used to be a waitress many years ago. I worked for a good employer - decent wage and kept my tips. I must have been a good waitress because I had good tips too. Oh... and this was in the US.

The Juggler

redrock wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

it's common knowledge that there is more motivation from an employee if they earn more with better performance.

Of course it is. Therefore a tip is for better performance. People seem to expect this 'tip' whether they perform or not. And also, I am not talking about capping of wages. Standard (decent - minimum wage?) for standard performance, tips for better performance. So no capping. An excellent waiter/waitress could therefore potentially earn a lot more than those that are just doing the minimum necessary. Same for sales.. no need to cap anything. Basic + commission. The more you sell, the more you get but you still have your basic wage to live on, just in case. Though must be great being an employer in the US... employ staff but don't pay them (or barely pay them) and let them earn their wages via the customer! Cool....

What I read in this thread is that waiting staff are EXPECTING a gratuity, whether or not they perform.

And yes, I used to be a waitress many years ago. I worked for a good employer - decent wage and kept my tips. I must have been a good waitress because I had good tips too. Oh... and this was in the US.

:roll:
some people just don't get it.

haffajappa

maybe if waitresses got paid a decent minimum wage, then I can stop hearing people say, "if you can't afford to tip ____%, you shouldn't eat out."

Here's the thing: I work for close to minimum wage, so it takes a long time to get any kind of sum of money. If I have to work long and hard to make the money, why do I have to throw it away if you're not even willing to do your job? And why should I have to tip you 1/5 of the bill if you are just doing your job. No body tips me for doing my job, and I have had to deal with a lot of assholes too. Obviously, if you are waiting on my table and you are going beyond doing your job (ie, not just taking my order, bringing my food and giving me a bill) you deserve a good tip. But if you are doing the bare minimum and I have to wait 30 minutes to get a refill of coffee... well then why are you somehow entitled extra money?

Soon we'll see tip jars everywhere, and if you don't put 25% of your purchase in that tip jar, then don't come to the store! At least thats what it feels like its getting to.

I'm just sick of feeling scrutinized if I leave 4 dollars instead of 5. You shouldn't have to leave the restaurant going, uh oh, did I leave a big enough tip? Are they going to think I'm cheap for only leaving x-amount? But somehow people do, you're only worthy to eat at a restaurant if you can give them 20% of the bill no matter how good the service you are given.

redrock

The Jeagler wrote:

:roll:
some people just don't get it.

:roll: You're right... I guess you just don't get it.....

_Crazy_Mary_

redrock,
I was only insinuating that mr. asshole was cheap by not ordering more than one course because he accused the owners of the restaurant for being cheapskates by not letting us eat samples of all the specials each day. I wait on plenty of tables every day that only order one course and I don't think they are cheap. This guy was just a prick. I've learned from experience that when a customer says, "I'm a real good tipper." he's not. So now I've also learned that when a guy labels my boss as a 'cheap charlie' he's the cheapie. And of course, there is no right or wrong way to eat ahi, but if you want the best experience for this $31 meal, you should eat it the way the kitchen wants to prepare it.

The Juggler

haffajappa wrote:

maybe if waitresses got paid a decent minimum wage, then I can stop hearing people say, "if you can't afford to tip ____%, you shouldn't eat out."

Here's the thing: I work for close to minimum wage, so it takes a long time to get any kind of sum of money. If I have to work long and hard to make the money, why do I have to throw it away if you're not even willing to do your job? And why should I have to tip you 1/5 of the bill if you are just doing your job. No body tips me for doing my job, and I have had to deal with a lot of assholes too. Obviously, if you are waiting on my table and you are going beyond doing your job (ie, not just taking my order, bringing my food and giving me a bill) you deserve a good tip. But if you are doing the bare minimum and I have to wait 30 minutes to get a refill of coffee... well then why are you somehow entitled extra money?

Soon we'll see tip jars everywhere, and if you don't put 25% of your purchase in that tip jar, then don't come to the store! At least thats what it feels like its getting to.

I'm just sick of feeling scrutinized if I leave 4 dollars instead of 5. You shouldn't have to leave the restaurant going, uh oh, did I leave a big enough tip? Are they going to think I'm cheap for only leaving x-amount? But somehow people do, you're only worthy to eat at a restaurant if you can give them 20% of the bill no matter how good the service you are given.

no you don't give 20% no matter what. i think you should at least give around 15% though. good service deserves 20% in my opinion though.


and please...enough of the "not paying them a decent wage" argument. crazy mary said her other table gave her 20% on a $220 tab. that's 50 bucks for an hours of worth of work. not too shabby

the bottom line is if the waitstaff did not work primarialy off of tips, you'd see you the price of your meal shoot way up to compensate for their higher salary and you'd get poorer service as a result of them not being as motivated as they are right now. come on people. this is not too complicated. the way our systems is set up right now is a win win for everybody. there will be instances where you have cheapos like mary's story...but then you will also have generous people like the couple who gave 20%.

The Juggler

redrock wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

:roll:
some people just don't get it.

:roll: You're right... I guess you just don't get it.....

so you're just ignoring my question?

nice talking to you. :roll:

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

The Jeagler wrote:

the bottom line is if the waitstaff did not work primarialy off of tips, you'd see you the price of your meal shoot way up to compensate for their higher salary and you'd get poorer service as a result of them not being as motivated as they are right now. come on people. this is not too complicated. the way our systems is set up right now is a win win for everybody. there will be instances where you have cheapos like mary's story...but then you will also have generous people like the couple who gave 20%.

i dont see why this is so hard to understand.

Redrock can go work for crappy tips is the UK so she can never afford to screw over waiters in the US because of her crazy crusade against the government.

_Crazy_Mary_

I agree with MrSmith & The Jeagler.
If the restaurants upped the price of all their meals to pay a higher wage and patrons didn't have to tip anymore, here is what I see would happen:
You pay $50 (for example) for your meal no matter the service, be it good or excellent.
The way the system is now, you'd pay $40 for your meal and then tip for service on top of that. If service is bad, meaning the waiter is rude & you're completely ignored, don't tip. If service is fine, no frills, nothing special - tip $6. For good service tip $8. And for amazing service tip $10.

Heatherj43

redrock wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

there is SO MUCH more to it than that. Believe me, a waiters job doesnt begin and end with the ten minutes he or she is at your table.

if you can't afford a decent tip (15% to 20%) for good service dont go to a restaurant. go to Mc Donald's. Waiting tables require too much bullshit for crappy tips. you really arent paying enough for quality service if you tip poorly.

i have very little respect for bad tippers. sorry. if i even catch a friend or relative giving a shitty tip (that isnt called for), i wont go out with them unless they make up for it.

I've been a waitress... I know what it's like. But maybe, due to my age , I was still 'old school' waitress. Very different to what it is now.....

One always expects good service when one goes to the restaurant. That is part of the staff's job - at whatever level. You have a job, you do it well. OK.. you may come back and speak of the 'abuse' waiting/bussing staff get but that's in most professions, just expressed differently (see another thread about the corporate world). A true tip is for EXCEEDINGLY good service, not just the good service one would expect.

As to the poster deciding that the customer should have had his tuna rare but asked for it medium... who is to judge? I like my meat 'blue' and I even like meat raw (steak tartare). A lot of americans (and British!) I know like their meat cooked to death. So what. Making the assumption that they only ordered a main course because they were 'cheap'. Maybe that's all they wanted. Maybe it could be they don't have much money and this was a treat for them... again.. who are you to judge.

And what is this kind of reaction... looking up the people in the phone book. For what? Send 'the guys' around? Check out where they live to see if they are 'worthy' of the restaurant?

As to the rudeness of the guy... the manager should have stepped in. Rudeness is unacceptable but that has nothing to do with tips.

Also the way one pays taxes on tips, that tips are part of your wages, etc... take that up with the government, not with the customers. I don't go in a restaurant asking staff how much they earn, how much of their tip they keep and it their tips are part of their wages. That is not my business. My business is to have a nice meal (whatever I choose, however much I want and however I like it cooked) with good service.

I agree with you! Also, why are people saying that if you can't afford the tip don't eat out??!! That is ridiculous. As I said earlier. Wait satff often gets tips that are too high, so it all balances out. Tips are not mandatory. Good service is, however! Tips use to be for above normal service. I do not understand how or when it became a demand! And, yes, take it up with the boss or/and government. Someone said that if they upped the cost for the meal then it would shoot the cost up so much that no one could afford to eat out. Do they get the fact that if tipping is mandatory, that does up the cost as they described?
Geez, I must be old school also. If a tip is so important, then make it mandatory with a sign or on the menu. I would bet you may no longer have a job.

_Crazy_Mary_

Heatherj43 wrote:

I agree with you! Also, why are people saying that if you can't afford the tip don't eat out??!! That is ridiculous. As I said earlier. Wait satff often gets tips that are too high, so it all balances out. Tips are not mandatory. Good service is, however! Tips use to be for above normal service. I do not understand how or when it became a demand! And, yes, take it up with the boss or/and government. Someone said that if they upped the cost for the meal then it would shoot the cost up so much that no one could afford to eat out. Do they get the fact that if tipping is mandatory, that does up the cost as they described?
Geez, I must be old school also. If a tip is so important, then make it mandatory with a sign or on the menu. I would bet you may no longer have a job.

See? Not only does including the gratuity in the cost of food up the bill overall, but now you're saying people will lose jobs. Sounds like a double negative to me.

If you look at my example above, it makes the most sense that the tip should be decided by the guest (based on service), not the restaurant.

And I don't think anybody is saying don't eat out if you can't afford to tip, but don't eat where the staff depend on tips if you're against it. Go to Subway or McDonald's instead.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Heatherj43 wrote:

redrock wrote:

MrSmith wrote:

there is SO MUCH more to it than that. Believe me, a waiters job doesnt begin and end with the ten minutes he or she is at your table.

if you can't afford a decent tip (15% to 20%) for good service dont go to a restaurant. go to Mc Donald's. Waiting tables require too much bullshit for crappy tips. you really arent paying enough for quality service if you tip poorly.

i have very little respect for bad tippers. sorry. if i even catch a friend or relative giving a shitty tip (that isnt called for), i wont go out with them unless they make up for it.

I've been a waitress... I know what it's like. But maybe, due to my age , I was still 'old school' waitress. Very different to what it is now.....

One always expects good service when one goes to the restaurant. That is part of the staff's job - at whatever level. You have a job, you do it well. OK.. you may come back and speak of the 'abuse' waiting/bussing staff get but that's in most professions, just expressed differently (see another thread about the corporate world). A true tip is for EXCEEDINGLY good service, not just the good service one would expect.

As to the poster deciding that the customer should have had his tuna rare but asked for it medium... who is to judge? I like my meat 'blue' and I even like meat raw (steak tartare). A lot of americans (and British!) I know like their meat cooked to death. So what. Making the assumption that they only ordered a main course because they were 'cheap'. Maybe that's all they wanted. Maybe it could be they don't have much money and this was a treat for them... again.. who are you to judge.

And what is this kind of reaction... looking up the people in the phone book. For what? Send 'the guys' around? Check out where they live to see if they are 'worthy' of the restaurant?

As to the rudeness of the guy... the manager should have stepped in. Rudeness is unacceptable but that has nothing to do with tips.

Also the way one pays taxes on tips, that tips are part of your wages, etc... take that up with the government, not with the customers. I don't go in a restaurant asking staff how much they earn, how much of their tip they keep and it their tips are part of their wages. That is not my business. My business is to have a nice meal (whatever I choose, however much I want and however I like it cooked) with good service.

I agree with you! Also, why are people saying that if you can't afford the tip don't eat out??!! That is ridiculous. As I said earlier. Wait satff often gets tips that are too high, so it all balances out. Tips are not mandatory. Good service is, however! Tips use to be for above normal service. I do not understand how or when it became a demand! And, yes, take it up with the boss or/and government. Someone said that if they upped the cost for the meal then it would shoot the cost up so much that no one could afford to eat out. Do they get the fact that if tipping is mandatory, that does up the cost as they described?
Geez, I must be old school also. If a tip is so important, then make it mandatory with a sign or on the menu. I would bet you may no longer have a job.

so just so im sure, you are for not giving any tip for good service? only amazing service (whatever that its)?

Heatherj43

No. Give a tip if you WANT to. If you choose not too, or give what some may think is too little, you shouldn't be made to feel that you shouldn't go out and eat, or at least not go to that place. I know that if I went out to eat and left a tip that I deemed enough and learned that I was being talked about by staff and the owner looked my name up in the phone book, I'd be pissed. This guy spent $80 at the establishment!

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Heatherj43 wrote:

No. Give a tip if you WANT to. If you choose not too, or give what some may think is too little, you shouldn't be made to feel that you shouldn't go out and eat, or at least not go to that place. I know that if I went out to eat and left a tip that I deemed enough and learned that I was being talked about by staff and the owner looked my name up in the phone book, I'd be pissed. This guy spent $80 at the establishment!

sure you should be made to feel your a cheap bastard for going out to eat and CHOOSING not to tip. thats the definition of a cheap bastard! i'm not talking about being broke, we've all been there, but just choosing to be cheap is pathetic. its not rocket science. figure out what a good tip is and leave it. people shouldnt whine because they are too dumb to figure out whats 20% of a bill.

haffajappa

The Jeagler wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

maybe if waitresses got paid a decent minimum wage, then I can stop hearing people say, "if you can't afford to tip ____%, you shouldn't eat out."

Here's the thing: I work for close to minimum wage, so it takes a long time to get any kind of sum of money. If I have to work long and hard to make the money, why do I have to throw it away if you're not even willing to do your job? And why should I have to tip you 1/5 of the bill if you are just doing your job. No body tips me for doing my job, and I have had to deal with a lot of assholes too. Obviously, if you are waiting on my table and you are going beyond doing your job (ie, not just taking my order, bringing my food and giving me a bill) you deserve a good tip. But if you are doing the bare minimum and I have to wait 30 minutes to get a refill of coffee... well then why are you somehow entitled extra money?

Soon we'll see tip jars everywhere, and if you don't put 25% of your purchase in that tip jar, then don't come to the store! At least thats what it feels like its getting to.

I'm just sick of feeling scrutinized if I leave 4 dollars instead of 5. You shouldn't have to leave the restaurant going, uh oh, did I leave a big enough tip? Are they going to think I'm cheap for only leaving x-amount? But somehow people do, you're only worthy to eat at a restaurant if you can give them 20% of the bill no matter how good the service you are given.

no you don't give 20% no matter what. i think you should at least give around 15% though. good service deserves 20% in my opinion though.


and please...enough of the "not paying them a decent wage" argument. crazy mary said her other table gave her 20% on a $220 tab. that's 50 bucks for an hours of worth of work. not too shabby

the bottom line is if the waitstaff did not work primarialy off of tips, you'd see you the price of your meal shoot way up to compensate for their higher salary and you'd get poorer service as a result of them not being as motivated as they are right now. come on people. this is not too complicated. the way our systems is set up right now is a win win for everybody. there will be instances where you have cheapos like mary's story...but then you will also have generous people like the couple who gave 20%.

i know i know, the paying them a decent wage thing comes from every tip thread we have on here saying thats why you must tip.

to which i say, its different up here... waitresses get the same minimum wage as anyone else. thats why i don't think that its manditory so the same arguments from the US don't work most other places around the world.