While Orton isnt very good... These stats are misleading. Throwing to WRs, Manuel has an awful %. Most of his completions are dumpoff to RBs because he cant read/adjust and doesnt have the accuracy to hit WRs. When he does hit them, it is not in stride... and often misses by a mile.
i think you might be able to say the same kind of thing about orton as well...and his stats are more pronounced as there's a much greater sample size.
my point is that orton's not going to take you guys to the super bowl. maybe he gets the bills an extra win because of his experience (maybe you win 8 instead of 7?). i just think it's stupid to dump manuel this soon, in favor of a below average qb. i would let manuel take his lumps this year and then reevaluate the qb situation. it sucks there is no first rounder next year but i think dumping him this soon, in favor of a qb like orton, will kill his confidence and derail any potential he may have had.
There is no potential with Manuel. He is a dud. Just like everyone outside of the Bills FO said. I dont know if you watch the Bills, but his attempts at passing are Tebow-Like. He has no future and the Bills are better off moving on and admitting it now.
Orton will at least be capable to hit WRs and prevent defenses from putting 8 dudes in the box and stopping FJ and Spiller. Defenses have basically figured out if you dare Manuel to throw over 5 yards... he cant.
Maybe Orton can find a groove and be a stopgap for this year and next. Maybe a QB will fall past the 1st round who (the new) GM likes. Maybe they can get Cousins? Kellen Moore?
Dont mistake my enthusiasm as optimism for Orton (although he does provide a much better possibility to win this awful division). The Bills have screwed the pooch on QB and fucked themselves big time. They doubled down on Manuel in round 1. Doubled down again using an UDFA (Tuel) and a Practice Squad QB (Lewis) to back him up for more than a year (so Manuel couldnt feel threatened). Then they doubled down a 3rd time with the Watkins trade. These incompetent fools will be kicked to the curb once Pegula can take hold (maybe the end of the season).
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
There IS potential with Manuel. A lot more than with Orton. If you think Orton gives buffalo a better chance to win, you never seen him play in Chicago or Denver. EJ has played in less than 16 NFL games. Let him play.
I'll spare everyone the suspense: Marone will be fired regardless of who is at QB. Even if they make the playoffs. He's done. Give EJ the chance to learn.
You have got to have nothing but respect for that man. He is one guy playing, who you know and can tell just enjoys playing in the NFL. One of Coe College's very finest.
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East Troy, WI - 9.4.11
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
You have got to have nothing but respect for that man. He is one guy playing, who you know and can tell just enjoys playing in the NFL. One of Coe College's very finest.
He is fun to watch. Think of all the first round picks we have spent on rbs in the last dozen or so years and this guy is still out there. I like Spiller but I loved watching Lynch and Jackson take turns running guys over a few years back.
There IS potential with Manuel. A lot more than with Orton. If you think Orton gives buffalo a better chance to win
I guess this is where we just fundamentally disagree and are at opposite ends.
I dont any see potential with Manuel. He is busted in every way IMO. Mechanics, Arm strength, accuracy, field-smarts, and poise. Every negative trait he was labeled with by experts who pegged him as a low round QB are dead on... and he seems to be getting worse. If they released him today, I'm not sure any other team would even be interested in him. All week, I have seen people break down the film from the past 2 games and write about it. Plays are working, players are open and Manuel is not recognizing it and making the wrong play. When he does get it to a player it is erratic and the guy either has to stop and reach back, leap, go low (also risking a pounding, ask Watkins and Goodwin)... or the ball sails completely uncatchable. Manuel was an awful pick. Tall guy who is well spoken and has big hands. Doesnt mean squat.
With Orton, at least you have some experience and he gives them a better shot now (and next year). Not a great shot, but the book is out on Manuel. 8 in the box, neutralize Freddy and CJ, and dare EJ to pass it downfield and the offense is listless. 2 Games in a row now, and no doubt they would see that for the last 12 games, until EJ stretched a defense, which he is completely incapable of doing. If he stayed in there they would struggle to win 4-5 games total this season... without a 1st rounder. Maybe with Orton they can go .500 or just above the rest of the way and win the AFCE.
At the very least Orton is capable of gaining a vertical threat of some sort (as opposed to none), and will free up the engine of our offense, Jackson and Spiller.
But if you believe Manuel has a future, then everything I said is bunk.
You also have to remember... who the heck do the Bills employ that is even qualified to groom a project QB? Marrone (.500 college coach for Syracuse in a crappy conference), a 17 year old-looking OC who appears to be over his head... Orton?
WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
Painful game to watch but a win. I'd like to buy that Detroit kicker a beer or twelve. Both defensive lines were brutal. Sammy Watkins made a couple of great catches down the stretch.
30/43 for 308. Havent had a 300 yard game since 2012.
Also audibled into the running play that got the critical 2 point conversion. Fred Jackson said he was a good influence in the huddle and made a number of correct adjustments throughout the game. Also on the road against the (was) #1 defense in the NFL.
This stuff happens all the time and is the norm. But not for the Bills.
He had an early miserable period of shaking the rust off and dealing with the crowd, but after that he played a solid road game
Post edited by MayDay10 on
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
He played pretty good other than the horrible pick six early on, but he didn't even have a preseason. I don't know about great, but that mustache is great!
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
What the hell was Duke Williams doing?
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
Damn it.
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
These garbage PI calls are getting out of hand.
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
I said, 'We like Mike Williams. We expect him back and we expect big things from him,'" Whaley said. "But like anybody, if he gets us compensation worthy of a number one wide receiver -- which he claimed he is -- then we would entertain it."
yeah, continuous cycle of this nonsense. Its the same shit. different season.
Word on the streets is Pegula is looking to hire a top football man to oversee the Football ops and create a program. Thats exactly what we have needed for 20 years.
So Mike Williams is now asking to be traded and the bills are entertaining offers. No way they get anything for him right? A healthy scratch yesterday. What a bum.
Comments
my point is that orton's not going to take you guys to the super bowl. maybe he gets the bills an extra win because of his experience (maybe you win 8 instead of 7?). i just think it's stupid to dump manuel this soon, in favor of a below average qb. i would let manuel take his lumps this year and then reevaluate the qb situation. it sucks there is no first rounder next year but i think dumping him this soon, in favor of a qb like orton, will kill his confidence and derail any potential he may have had.
Orton will at least be capable to hit WRs and prevent defenses from putting 8 dudes in the box and stopping FJ and Spiller. Defenses have basically figured out if you dare Manuel to throw over 5 yards... he cant.
Maybe Orton can find a groove and be a stopgap for this year and next. Maybe a QB will fall past the 1st round who (the new) GM likes. Maybe they can get Cousins? Kellen Moore?
Dont mistake my enthusiasm as optimism for Orton (although he does provide a much better possibility to win this awful division). The Bills have screwed the pooch on QB and fucked themselves big time. They doubled down on Manuel in round 1. Doubled down again using an UDFA (Tuel) and a Practice Squad QB (Lewis) to back him up for more than a year (so Manuel couldnt feel threatened). Then they doubled down a 3rd time with the Watkins trade. These incompetent fools will be kicked to the curb once Pegula can take hold (maybe the end of the season).
hahaha
I'll spare everyone the suspense: Marone will be fired regardless of who is at QB. Even if they make the playoffs. He's done. Give EJ the chance to learn.
You have got to have nothing but respect for that man. He is one guy playing, who you know and can tell just enjoys playing in the NFL. One of Coe College's very finest.
East Troy, WI - 9.3.11
East Troy, WI - 9.4.11
Atlanta, GA - 9.22.12
Las Vegas, NV - 10.31.12 (EV)
Las Vegas, NV - 11.1.12 (EV)
Chicago, IL - 7.19.13
Dallas, TX - 11.15.13
Oklahoma City, OK - 11.16.13
Seattle, WA - 12.6.13
Lincoln, NE - 10.9.14
Moline, IL - 10.17.14
St. Paul, MN - 10.19.14
Milwaukee, WI - 10.20.14
New York, NY - 5.1.16
New York, NY - 5.2.16
Boston, MA - 8.5.16
Boston, MA - 8.7.16
Chicago, IL - 8.20.16
I dont any see potential with Manuel. He is busted in every way IMO. Mechanics, Arm strength, accuracy, field-smarts, and poise. Every negative trait he was labeled with by experts who pegged him as a low round QB are dead on... and he seems to be getting worse. If they released him today, I'm not sure any other team would even be interested in him. All week, I have seen people break down the film from the past 2 games and write about it. Plays are working, players are open and Manuel is not recognizing it and making the wrong play. When he does get it to a player it is erratic and the guy either has to stop and reach back, leap, go low (also risking a pounding, ask Watkins and Goodwin)... or the ball sails completely uncatchable. Manuel was an awful pick. Tall guy who is well spoken and has big hands. Doesnt mean squat.
With Orton, at least you have some experience and he gives them a better shot now (and next year). Not a great shot, but the book is out on Manuel. 8 in the box, neutralize Freddy and CJ, and dare EJ to pass it downfield and the offense is listless. 2 Games in a row now, and no doubt they would see that for the last 12 games, until EJ stretched a defense, which he is completely incapable of doing. If he stayed in there they would struggle to win 4-5 games total this season... without a 1st rounder. Maybe with Orton they can go .500 or just above the rest of the way and win the AFCE.
At the very least Orton is capable of gaining a vertical threat of some sort (as opposed to none), and will free up the engine of our offense, Jackson and Spiller.
But if you believe Manuel has a future, then everything I said is bunk.
You also have to remember... who the heck do the Bills employ that is even qualified to groom a project QB? Marrone (.500 college coach for Syracuse in a crappy conference), a 17 year old-looking OC who appears to be over his head... Orton?
http://www.tomahawknation.com/2013/4/25/4264734/nfl-draft-2013-ej-manuel-next-level-florida-state
30/43 for 308. Havent had a 300 yard game since 2012.
Also audibled into the running play that got the critical 2 point conversion. Fred Jackson said he was a good influence in the huddle and made a number of correct adjustments throughout the game. Also on the road against the (was) #1 defense in the NFL.
This stuff happens all the time and is the norm. But not for the Bills.
He had an early miserable period of shaking the rust off and dealing with the crowd, but after that he played a solid road game
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11693856/mike-williams-agent-shops-trade-buffalo-bills
I said, 'We like Mike Williams. We expect him back and we expect big things from him,'" Whaley said. "But like anybody, if he gets us compensation worthy of a number one wide receiver -- which he claimed he is -- then we would entertain it."
One word: idiots. Fire them all.
Word on the streets is Pegula is looking to hire a top football man to oversee the Football ops and create a program. Thats exactly what we have needed for 20 years.
2 guys brought in via trade and both inactive yesterday
It shouldn't have been that close. Those early turnovers killed our momentum.