Having known some of the victims and people involved in this event, it's hard not to argue that in many ways political correctness is at the very least somewhat responsible. People in command that had the ability to take action when they saw the warning signs didn't do anything. Why? I can't help but believe they were afraid of the backlash and condemnation that it would bring. That is where political correctness becomes our downfall. There is such a fear about doing or saying anything that might be deemed racist or insensitive against Muslims. If this had a been a Christian whack job, doing this in the name of Jesus, and he had been handing out Bibles that morning, you can rest assured he would have been called a Christian Extremist.
I'm not saying you should put all muslims in internment camps, or boot them out of the Army. I'm just saying that as citizens, Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever, we need to be vigilant for the safety and security of everyone.
why don't you just kick out everyone other than white christians?
come on man, how is it the american way to discriminate? your suggestion sounds logical to some, but i am sure it is quite unconstitutional to discriminate based on religious faith. you say 95% of muslims are peace loving people yet you suggest keeping all of them out of the military? that is like saying 95% of all christians are good people but lets keep them all out of the army just to be on the safe side.....
I don't know why race had to come in to this discussion. It always seems to be the "liberals" who go right to skin color.
Christians have also done awful things in the past, but I don't remember anyone killing Americans in the name of Jesus in the last, say, 10 years or so. Like the 9-11 Commission said, radical Islam has been at war with us for a generation, but we were not at war with it.
I know this is a tough issue, but the military is not a giant social experiment. It is a fighting force. Screening out who fights in our military is just common sense. I personally don't see serving in the military as a constitutional right.[/quote]
i did not bring race into it. you are implying race because the shooter was of arab decent and i said why not just kick out white christians because it seems you would be more comfortable if that was all the service was made up of, white christians, because obviouslty the muslims can not be trusted... :roll:
you can't think of any christians killing americans in the name of jesus? how about eric rudolph? how about the guy that killed dr tiller? how about this whole war on terror? its mostly american christians killing middle eastern muslims pure and simple.
you say we should screen who gets in the service. i what way? are you talking doing religious screening, mental aptitude screening or what? remember, bush allowed the lowering of the standards for admittance in to the service a few years ago so we can keep our numbers up, and we still had a shortage of troops. when you lower standards you risk letting in bad eggs, but if you raise them you run the risk of a shrinking fighting force. what do you suggest we do?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
This piece of garbage yelled "Allah Akbar" before he shot our troops, and the news today is saying that for years he attended the same mosque as many of the 9/11 highjackers. This is enough for me.
enough for what? to label it an act of terrorism? so because he allegedly attended the same mosque as the 9/11 hijackers and apparently yelled Allahu Akbar, it's terrorism? So if he had not done either of those things, it would not be terrorism? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I always thought of terrorism as more of an act than an intention.
The US military, in my opinion, (and I know it won't be a popular opinion), should no longer accept Muslims. I know that 95% of Muslims are peace-loving people. I get that. I also know that non-Muslims have committed horrible acts, i.e. Tim McVeigh. But enough is enough. I have friends in the military that I don't want to see killed by some maniac within their ranks.
It's a good thing your opinion doesn't matter because you hold a disgusting thought. No offense, but you're a moron. I am trying to refrain from insults as much as I can, but this is just so discriminatory to the point where it's borderline hilarious and it has to be satirical. Should all Muslims be put in internment camps while we're at it?
Having known some of the victims and people involved in this event, it's hard not to argue that in many ways political correctness is at the very least somewhat responsible. People in command that had the ability to take action when they saw the warning signs didn't do anything. Why? I can't help but believe they were afraid of the backlash and condemnation that it would bring. That is where political correctness becomes our downfall. There is such a fear about doing or saying anything that might be deemed racist or insensitive against Muslims. If this had a been a Christian whack job, doing this in the name of Jesus, and he had been handing out Bibles that morning, you can rest assured he would have been called a Christian Extremist.
I'm not saying you should put all muslims in internment camps, or boot them out of the Army. I'm just saying that as citizens, Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever, we need to be vigilant for the safety and security of everyone.
if people in command saw warning signs and did nothing then they are just as guilty. that is negiligence.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i did not bring race into it. you are implying race because the shooter was of arab decent and i said why not just kick out white christians because it seems you would be more comfortable if that was all the service was made up of, white christians, because obviouslty the muslims can not be trusted... :roll:
you can't think of any christians killing americans in the name of jesus? how about eric rudolph? how about the guy that killed dr tiller? how about this whole war on terror? its mostly american christians killing middle eastern muslims pure and simple.
you say we should screen who gets in the service. i what way? are you talking doing religious screening, mental aptitude screening or what? remember, bush allowed the lowering of the standards for admittance in to the service a few years ago so we can keep our numbers up, and we still had a shortage of troops. when you lower standards you risk letting in bad eggs, but if you raise them you run the risk of a shrinking fighting force. what do you suggest we do?[/quote]
I said Muslims, not Arabs, that would be racial discrimination. I'm opposed to fundamentalism regardless of what religion it attaches itself to. But to my knowledge, America is not at war with radical Buddhism or radical Judaism right now. He wasn't shouting "Yahweh Akbar!"
We already do mental screening of soldiers, but obviously it's not enough. A blanket ban on Muslims regardless of skin color would eliminate this particular risk to our troops. They already sacrifice enough, the last thing they need is an enemy within their own ranks. I'm sorry my opinion is not PC. This man did not get in to the service because of Bush lowering standards, he was already in the army prior to 9-11 so I don't really get that point.
I must say, I'm enjoying our discussion, and unlike some other posters you haven't resorted to name-calling and I respect that.
if people in command saw warning signs and did nothing then they are just as guilty. that is negiligence.[/quote]
We agree very much on this one. Did you see Meet the Press yesterday? They had Gen Casey on, he was asked about the warning signs, and he said something along the lines of that the military "didn't miss this one". Are you kidding me?
actually id be more concerned with the moderates of all religions that allow extremists to foment their bullshit and get ahold of those vulnerable to such views. tis no good sitting there after the event saying 'fundamentlaist extremists dont reflect what our religion is about' if up to that point youve done nothing to counter or criticise them.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
This is not a matter of 1 or 2 bad apples. A couple years ago, this question was asked to 1050 Muslim adults in the US: "Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies. Other people believe that, no matter what the reason, this kind of violence is never justified.
"Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified?"
The results may shock some people. "The survey found 26 percent of younger Muslims believed suicide bombings are often, sometimes or rarely justified"
So, basically, 1 out of 4 YOUNG AMERICAN MUSLIMS is OK with SUICIDE BOMBINGS. Exactly what is to be GAINED from their presence in our military?????
Having known some of the victims and people involved in this event, it's hard not to argue that in many ways political correctness is at the very least somewhat responsible. People in command that had the ability to take action when they saw the warning signs didn't do anything. Why? I can't help but believe they were afraid of the backlash and condemnation that it would bring. That is where political correctness becomes our downfall. There is such a fear about doing or saying anything that might be deemed racist or insensitive against Muslims. If this had a been a Christian whack job, doing this in the name of Jesus, and he had been handing out Bibles that morning, you can rest assured he would have been called a Christian Extremist.
I'm not saying you should put all muslims in internment camps, or boot them out of the Army. I'm just saying that as citizens, Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever, we need to be vigilant for the safety and security of everyone.
I've seen a few posts hinting that PTSD might have been a factor. The P in PTSD stands for "Post" meaning AFTER. PTSD is the newfangled term for what they used to call "shell-shock." So, considering he had not been in a combat zone, I think we can rule out PTSD.
This piece of garbage yelled "Allah Akbar" before he shot our troops, and the news today is saying that for years he attended the same mosque as many of the 9/11 highjackers. This is enough for me.
This was an act of terrorism. Anyone remember this one? From ABC news: March 23, 2003: Army Sgt. Hasan Akbar tosses grenades into three tents and then fires a rifle at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait, killing one and injuring 14.
The US military, in my opinion, (and I know it won't be a popular opinion), should no longer accept Muslims. I know that 95% of Muslims are peace-loving people. I get that. I also know that non-Muslims have committed horrible acts, i.e. Tim McVeigh. But enough is enough. I have friends in the military that I don't want to see killed by some maniac within their ranks.
Here's my question
How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?
Here's my question
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.[/quote]
...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?[/quote]
I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates![/quote]
don't ask questions you can't answer yourself then.
just a thought, of course.[/quote]
Actually, I wasn't the one who asked the question.
Here's my question
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.
...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?
I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates!
...
That is the correct answer... WE don't know.
My suggestion to PerfectLefts would be this:
Since most of us... if any... are NOT Muslim, Arabic or Persian... "I don't know." will probably be most of the truthful answers he'll get... from here. If he really seeks a truthful answer, not someone's unfounded, speculated opinions on what it might be like to be a Muslim Arab... then, he really needs to ask this of Muslim Arabs and/or Persians... not, Christian or Atheist or Agnostic or Catholic or formerly Catholic with the majority percentage being of some sort of caucasian heritage or desent Pearl Jam fans.
Just a little constructive advice... for him, not you.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates!
...
That is the correct answer... WE don't know.
My suggestion to PerfectLefts would be this:
Since most of us... if any... are NOT Muslim, Arabic or Persian... "I don't know." will probably be most of the truthful answers he'll get... from here. If he really seeks a truthful answer, not someone's unfounded, speculated opinions on what it might be like to be a Muslim Arab... then, he really needs to ask this of Muslim Arabs and/or Persians... not, Christian or Atheist or Agnostic or Catholic or formerly Catholic with the majority percentage being of some sort of caucasian heritage or desent Pearl Jam fans.
Just a little constructive advice... for him, not you.
aaah shit cosmo its more fun ragging on muslims... dont you know??
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That is the correct answer... WE don't know.
My suggestion to PerfectLefts would be this:
Since most of us... if any... are NOT Muslim, Arabic or Persian... "I don't know." will probably be most of the truthful answers he'll get... from here. If he really seeks a truthful answer, not someone's unfounded, speculated opinions on what it might be like to be a Muslim Arab... then, he really needs to ask this of Muslim Arabs and/or Persians... not, Christian or Atheist or Agnostic or Catholic or formerly Catholic with the majority percentage being of some sort of caucasian heritage or desent Pearl Jam fans.
Just a little constructive advice.[/quote]
Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims. You know what happens to non-Muslims in countries like the great US ally Turkey? Fun stuff like this:
In a gruesome assault against Turkey's tiny Christian community, five young Muslim Turks entered a Christian publishing office in the southeastern province of Malatya Wednesday and slit the throats of the three Protestant Christians present.
Two of the victims, Necati Aydin, 36, and Ugur Yuksel, 32, were Turkish converts from Islam. The third man, Tilmann Geske, 46, was a German citizen.
The Turkish press reported Thursday that four of the five young men arrested for the murders, all 19 to 20 years of age, admitted during initial interrogations that they were motivated by both "nationalist and religious feelings."
"We did this for our country," an identical note in the pockets of all five young men read, Channel D television station reported. "They are attacking our religion."
According to the newspaper Hurriyet, one of the suspects declared during police questioning, "We didn't do this for ourselves. We did it for our religion. May this be a lesson to the enemies of religion."
Here's my question
How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving?
"It almost seems appropriate that since I’m a Palestinian-American Muslim from Northern Virginia who also happens to be from the same hometown in Palestine (El-Bireh) as Ft. Hood shooter suspect Nidal Hasan, I should issue a press release expressing my outrage and condemnation along with every other Arab-American and Muslim-American organization. But I won’t. I won’t because Nidal Hasan’s actions aren’t representative of me. They’re not representative of Palestinian-Americans, Arab-Americans or American Muslims. While I personally was shocked to hear about this incident, I wasn’t overcome with a sense of shame about it. And why should I? It had absolutely nothing to do with me or who I am. Hasan is an individual who, for reasons yet unknown, went postal and decided to kill his fellow soldiers.
Even before I had heard the news about the shooting, I noticed an email in my inbox from the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) with a statement condemning the attack and saying they were “appalled” by it. Later on, the late local news covered a press conference held by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) that joined in with statements of condemnation. Why are these organizations so quick to issue such statements? Of course, anyone in their right mind would be disturbed to hear about an incident like this one. But when these organizations are quick to put out condemnations they automatically link the incident with the respective communities they represent. Such statements are uncalled for and unnecessary.
Sure, there will inevitably be the usual Arab and Muslim bashing from ignorant, hateful people. Unfortunately, some will probably even commit violent acts on those they believe are Arab and/or Muslim. And I know that ADC and CAIR claim to put out these statements in order to curb such sentiments and attacks. But I can’t help but think that if these organizations stop immediately putting these statements out, especially before any motive has even been reached, then incidents like this will be begin to be viewed in the same light as any another violent attack. Certainly, all are tragic events but ones where the individuals who commit them would be scrutinized and/or vilified and not the communities they are from.
This is a sad story. But I won’t feel guilty, afraid or ashamed just because the suspect happens to be an Arab and a Muslim like me. That would be ridiculous."
Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims.
No shit. That's not the fucking point. The point is that because Arabs and Iranians have been targeted in a VERY similar way to Muslims, they share similar sentiments.
Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims. You know what happens to non-Muslims in countries like the great US ally Turkey? Fun stuff like this:
In a gruesome assault against Turkey's tiny Christian community, five young Muslim Turks entered a Christian publishing office in the southeastern province of Malatya Wednesday and slit the throats of the three Protestant Christians present.
Two of the victims, Necati Aydin, 36, and Ugur Yuksel, 32, were Turkish converts from Islam. The third man, Tilmann Geske, 46, was a German citizen.
The Turkish press reported Thursday that four of the five young men arrested for the murders, all 19 to 20 years of age, admitted during initial interrogations that they were motivated by both "nationalist and religious feelings."
"We did this for our country," an identical note in the pockets of all five young men read, Channel D television station reported. "They are attacking our religion."
According to the newspaper Hurriyet, one of the suspects declared during police questioning, "We didn't do this for ourselves. We did it for our religion. May this be a lesson to the enemies of religion."
heres my theory.. islam is 600 years younger than christianity i like to look back and see where christianity was 600 years ago before i go condemning a religion as being worse than another. and please do not try and tell me we, as the race of mankind, are more civilised than we were in the 1400s or some crap like that. and do not think for a second im condoning their actions either. im just trying to apply some logic to the illogical.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
heres my theory.. islam is 600 years younger than christianity i like to look back and see where christianity was 600 years ago before i go condemning a religion as being worse than another. and please do not try and tell me we, as the race of mankind, are more civilised than we were in the 1400s or some crap like that. and do not think for a second im condoning their actions either. im just trying to apply some logic to the illogical.[/quote]
You have a Darwin avatar, but don't believe we've evolved in the last 600 years?
...
Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims. You know what happens to non-Muslims in countries like the great US ally Turkey? Fun stuff like this:
In a gruesome assault against Turkey's tiny Christian community, five young Muslim Turks entered a Christian publishing office in the southeastern province of Malatya Wednesday and slit the throats of the three Protestant Christians present.
Two of the victims, Necati Aydin, 36, and Ugur Yuksel, 32, were Turkish converts from Islam. The third man, Tilmann Geske, 46, was a German citizen.
The Turkish press reported Thursday that four of the five young men arrested for the murders, all 19 to 20 years of age, admitted during initial interrogations that they were motivated by both "nationalist and religious feelings."
"We did this for our country," an identical note in the pockets of all five young men read, Channel D television station reported. "They are attacking our religion."
According to the newspaper Hurriyet, one of the suspects declared during police questioning, "We didn't do this for ourselves. We did it for our religion. May this be a lesson to the enemies of religion."
...
Which is why I specificly stated Muslim Arabs and/or Muslim Persians (like i would describe Christian Americans). I know there are varying factors.
...
Regarding your tragic story... bottom line, some people take their archaic beliefs in things written by Men, 4000 years ago... way too fucking seriously.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Evolution is a slow process... 600 years is less than a blink of an eye to Evolution.
Knowledge, is something else. We have learned a lot about our Natural world in the past 600 years... and we have learned a lot of shitty stuff in that time, too.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Evolution is a slow process... 600 years is less than a blink of an eye to Evolution.
Knowledge, is something else. We have learned a lot about our Natural world in the past 600 years... and we have learned a lot of shitty stuff in that time, too.
and when it comes to some things we have learnt nothing.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
While I still regret my emotional outburst earlier in this thread, information coming to light suggests that the influence of extremist ideologies MIGHT have been relevant in this case. I'd like to thank people like Triumphant Angel for jumping all over my nuts.
Oh, and that's the`last comment I will have on the topic, because apparently my Caucasian heritage precludes me from having an informed opinion on how Muslims must think.
Comments
I'm not saying you should put all muslims in internment camps, or boot them out of the Army. I'm just saying that as citizens, Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever, we need to be vigilant for the safety and security of everyone.
I don't know why race had to come in to this discussion. It always seems to be the "liberals" who go right to skin color.
Christians have also done awful things in the past, but I don't remember anyone killing Americans in the name of Jesus in the last, say, 10 years or so. Like the 9-11 Commission said, radical Islam has been at war with us for a generation, but we were not at war with it.
I know this is a tough issue, but the military is not a giant social experiment. It is a fighting force. Screening out who fights in our military is just common sense. I personally don't see serving in the military as a constitutional right.[/quote]
i did not bring race into it. you are implying race because the shooter was of arab decent and i said why not just kick out white christians because it seems you would be more comfortable if that was all the service was made up of, white christians, because obviouslty the muslims can not be trusted... :roll:
you can't think of any christians killing americans in the name of jesus? how about eric rudolph? how about the guy that killed dr tiller? how about this whole war on terror? its mostly american christians killing middle eastern muslims pure and simple.
you say we should screen who gets in the service. i what way? are you talking doing religious screening, mental aptitude screening or what? remember, bush allowed the lowering of the standards for admittance in to the service a few years ago so we can keep our numbers up, and we still had a shortage of troops. when you lower standards you risk letting in bad eggs, but if you raise them you run the risk of a shrinking fighting force. what do you suggest we do?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
if people in command saw warning signs and did nothing then they are just as guilty. that is negiligence.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
you can't think of any christians killing americans in the name of jesus? how about eric rudolph? how about the guy that killed dr tiller? how about this whole war on terror? its mostly american christians killing middle eastern muslims pure and simple.
you say we should screen who gets in the service. i what way? are you talking doing religious screening, mental aptitude screening or what? remember, bush allowed the lowering of the standards for admittance in to the service a few years ago so we can keep our numbers up, and we still had a shortage of troops. when you lower standards you risk letting in bad eggs, but if you raise them you run the risk of a shrinking fighting force. what do you suggest we do?[/quote]
I said Muslims, not Arabs, that would be racial discrimination. I'm opposed to fundamentalism regardless of what religion it attaches itself to. But to my knowledge, America is not at war with radical Buddhism or radical Judaism right now. He wasn't shouting "Yahweh Akbar!"
We already do mental screening of soldiers, but obviously it's not enough. A blanket ban on Muslims regardless of skin color would eliminate this particular risk to our troops. They already sacrifice enough, the last thing they need is an enemy within their own ranks. I'm sorry my opinion is not PC. This man did not get in to the service because of Bush lowering standards, he was already in the army prior to 9-11 so I don't really get that point.
I must say, I'm enjoying our discussion, and unlike some other posters you haven't resorted to name-calling and I respect that.
We agree very much on this one. Did you see Meet the Press yesterday? They had Gen Casey on, he was asked about the warning signs, and he said something along the lines of that the military "didn't miss this one". Are you kidding me?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified?"
The results may shock some people. "The survey found 26 percent of younger Muslims believed suicide bombings are often, sometimes or rarely justified"
So, basically, 1 out of 4 YOUNG AMERICAN MUSLIMS is OK with SUICIDE BOMBINGS. Exactly what is to be GAINED from their presence in our military?????
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/ ... 3620070522
Here's my question
How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?
and I agree with you 100 % on this porchmonkey.
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?
Hail, Hail!!!
you took the words right outta my mouth cosmo.
over to you prfctlefts.
I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates!
just a thought, of course.
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.[/quote]
...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?[/quote]
I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates![/quote]
don't ask questions you can't answer yourself then.
just a thought, of course.[/quote]
Actually, I wasn't the one who asked the question.
That is the correct answer... WE don't know.
My suggestion to PerfectLefts would be this:
Since most of us... if any... are NOT Muslim, Arabic or Persian... "I don't know." will probably be most of the truthful answers he'll get... from here. If he really seeks a truthful answer, not someone's unfounded, speculated opinions on what it might be like to be a Muslim Arab... then, he really needs to ask this of Muslim Arabs and/or Persians... not, Christian or Atheist or Agnostic or Catholic or formerly Catholic with the majority percentage being of some sort of caucasian heritage or desent Pearl Jam fans.
Just a little constructive advice... for him, not you.
Hail, Hail!!!
aaah shit cosmo its more fun ragging on muslims... dont you know??
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you have the same avatar and both have user names starting with p. i'll be more careful in future :shock:
anyway, i'm sure mr lefts will be back soon to answer his own question...
My suggestion to PerfectLefts would be this:
Since most of us... if any... are NOT Muslim, Arabic or Persian... "I don't know." will probably be most of the truthful answers he'll get... from here. If he really seeks a truthful answer, not someone's unfounded, speculated opinions on what it might be like to be a Muslim Arab... then, he really needs to ask this of Muslim Arabs and/or Persians... not, Christian or Atheist or Agnostic or Catholic or formerly Catholic with the majority percentage being of some sort of caucasian heritage or desent Pearl Jam fans.
Just a little constructive advice.[/quote]
Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims. You know what happens to non-Muslims in countries like the great US ally Turkey? Fun stuff like this:
In a gruesome assault against Turkey's tiny Christian community, five young Muslim Turks entered a Christian publishing office in the southeastern province of Malatya Wednesday and slit the throats of the three Protestant Christians present.
Two of the victims, Necati Aydin, 36, and Ugur Yuksel, 32, were Turkish converts from Islam. The third man, Tilmann Geske, 46, was a German citizen.
The Turkish press reported Thursday that four of the five young men arrested for the murders, all 19 to 20 years of age, admitted during initial interrogations that they were motivated by both "nationalist and religious feelings."
"We did this for our country," an identical note in the pockets of all five young men read, Channel D television station reported. "They are attacking our religion."
According to the newspaper Hurriyet, one of the suspects declared during police questioning, "We didn't do this for ourselves. We did it for our religion. May this be a lesson to the enemies of religion."
Even before I had heard the news about the shooting, I noticed an email in my inbox from the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) with a statement condemning the attack and saying they were “appalled” by it. Later on, the late local news covered a press conference held by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) that joined in with statements of condemnation. Why are these organizations so quick to issue such statements? Of course, anyone in their right mind would be disturbed to hear about an incident like this one. But when these organizations are quick to put out condemnations they automatically link the incident with the respective communities they represent. Such statements are uncalled for and unnecessary.
Sure, there will inevitably be the usual Arab and Muslim bashing from ignorant, hateful people. Unfortunately, some will probably even commit violent acts on those they believe are Arab and/or Muslim. And I know that ADC and CAIR claim to put out these statements in order to curb such sentiments and attacks. But I can’t help but think that if these organizations stop immediately putting these statements out, especially before any motive has even been reached, then incidents like this will be begin to be viewed in the same light as any another violent attack. Certainly, all are tragic events but ones where the individuals who commit them would be scrutinized and/or vilified and not the communities they are from.
This is a sad story. But I won’t feel guilty, afraid or ashamed just because the suspect happens to be an Arab and a Muslim like me. That would be ridiculous."
http://www.kabobfest.com/2009/11/why-ar ... ndemn.html
heres my theory.. islam is 600 years younger than christianity i like to look back and see where christianity was 600 years ago before i go condemning a religion as being worse than another. and please do not try and tell me we, as the race of mankind, are more civilised than we were in the 1400s or some crap like that. and do not think for a second im condoning their actions either. im just trying to apply some logic to the illogical.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You have a Darwin avatar, but don't believe we've evolved in the last 600 years?
Which is why I specificly stated Muslim Arabs and/or Muslim Persians (like i would describe Christian Americans). I know there are varying factors.
...
Regarding your tragic story... bottom line, some people take their archaic beliefs in things written by Men, 4000 years ago... way too fucking seriously.
Hail, Hail!!!
with some things no i dont.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Evolution is a slow process... 600 years is less than a blink of an eye to Evolution.
Knowledge, is something else. We have learned a lot about our Natural world in the past 600 years... and we have learned a lot of shitty stuff in that time, too.
Hail, Hail!!!
and when it comes to some things we have learnt nothing.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say