Shooting at Fort Hood

WaveCameCrashin

porchmonkey77 wrote:

I've seen a few posts hinting that PTSD might have been a factor. The P in PTSD stands for "Post" meaning AFTER. PTSD is the newfangled term for what they used to call "shell-shock." So, considering he had not been in a combat zone, I think we can rule out PTSD.

This piece of garbage yelled "Allah Akbar" before he shot our troops, and the news today is saying that for years he attended the same mosque as many of the 9/11 highjackers. This is enough for me.

This was an act of terrorism. Anyone remember this one? From ABC news: March 23, 2003: Army Sgt. Hasan Akbar tosses grenades into three tents and then fires a rifle at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait, killing one and injuring 14.

The US military, in my opinion, (and I know it won't be a popular opinion), should no longer accept Muslims. I know that 95% of Muslims are peace-loving people. I get that. I also know that non-Muslims have committed horrible acts, i.e. Tim McVeigh. But enough is enough. I have friends in the military that I don't want to see killed by some maniac within their ranks.

Here's my question
How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?

and I agree with you 100 % on this porchmonkey.

Cosmo

prfctlefts wrote:

Here's my question
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.

...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?

TriumphantAngel

Cosmo wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Here's my question
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.

...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?

you took the words right outta my mouth cosmo.

over to you prfctlefts.

phillypjhead

Cosmo wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Here's my question
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.

...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?

I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates!

TriumphantAngel

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Here's my question
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.

...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?

I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates!

don't ask questions you can't answer yourself then.

just a thought, of course.

phillypjhead

Here's my question
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.[/quote]
...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?[/quote]

I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates![/quote]
don't ask questions you can't answer yourself then.

just a thought, of course.[/quote]

Actually, I wasn't the one who asked the question.

Cosmo

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Here's my question
Q: How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving ?.

...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?

I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates!

...
That is the correct answer... WE don't know.
My suggestion to PerfectLefts would be this:
Since most of us... if any... are NOT Muslim, Arabic or Persian... "I don't know." will probably be most of the truthful answers he'll get... from here. If he really seeks a truthful answer, not someone's unfounded, speculated opinions on what it might be like to be a Muslim Arab... then, he really needs to ask this of Muslim Arabs and/or Persians... not, Christian or Atheist or Agnostic or Catholic or formerly Catholic with the majority percentage being of some sort of caucasian heritage or desent Pearl Jam fans.
Just a little constructive advice... for him, not you.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
A: I don't know.
...
What's your answer?

I wish I had an answer to this one. If I had it, I might have won the Nobel this year since there were obviously no good candidates!

...
That is the correct answer... WE don't know.
My suggestion to PerfectLefts would be this:
Since most of us... if any... are NOT Muslim, Arabic or Persian... "I don't know." will probably be most of the truthful answers he'll get... from here. If he really seeks a truthful answer, not someone's unfounded, speculated opinions on what it might be like to be a Muslim Arab... then, he really needs to ask this of Muslim Arabs and/or Persians... not, Christian or Atheist or Agnostic or Catholic or formerly Catholic with the majority percentage being of some sort of caucasian heritage or desent Pearl Jam fans.
Just a little constructive advice... for him, not you.

aaah shit cosmo its more fun ragging on muslims... dont you know??

TriumphantAngel

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Actually, I wasn't the one who asked the question.

my apologies.

you have the same avatar and both have user names starting with p. i'll be more careful in future :shock:

anyway, i'm sure mr lefts will be back soon to answer his own question...

phillypjhead

That is the correct answer... WE don't know.
My suggestion to PerfectLefts would be this:
Since most of us... if any... are NOT Muslim, Arabic or Persian... "I don't know." will probably be most of the truthful answers he'll get... from here. If he really seeks a truthful answer, not someone's unfounded, speculated opinions on what it might be like to be a Muslim Arab... then, he really needs to ask this of Muslim Arabs and/or Persians... not, Christian or Atheist or Agnostic or Catholic or formerly Catholic with the majority percentage being of some sort of caucasian heritage or desent Pearl Jam fans.
Just a little constructive advice.[/quote]

Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims. You know what happens to non-Muslims in countries like the great US ally Turkey? Fun stuff like this:

In a gruesome assault against Turkey's tiny Christian community, five young Muslim Turks entered a Christian publishing office in the southeastern province of Malatya Wednesday and slit the throats of the three Protestant Christians present.

Two of the victims, Necati Aydin, 36, and Ugur Yuksel, 32, were Turkish converts from Islam. The third man, Tilmann Geske, 46, was a German citizen.

The Turkish press reported Thursday that four of the five young men arrested for the murders, all 19 to 20 years of age, admitted during initial interrogations that they were motivated by both "nationalist and religious feelings."

"We did this for our country," an identical note in the pockets of all five young men read, Channel D television station reported. "They are attacking our religion."

According to the newspaper Hurriyet, one of the suspects declared during police questioning, "We didn't do this for ourselves. We did it for our religion. May this be a lesson to the enemies of religion."

fuck

prfctlefts wrote:

Here's my question
How come Muslims very rarely or ever speak out condemning these kind of acts if they are so peace loving?

"It almost seems appropriate that since I’m a Palestinian-American Muslim from Northern Virginia who also happens to be from the same hometown in Palestine (El-Bireh) as Ft. Hood shooter suspect Nidal Hasan, I should issue a press release expressing my outrage and condemnation along with every other Arab-American and Muslim-American organization. But I won’t. I won’t because Nidal Hasan’s actions aren’t representative of me. They’re not representative of Palestinian-Americans, Arab-Americans or American Muslims. While I personally was shocked to hear about this incident, I wasn’t overcome with a sense of shame about it. And why should I? It had absolutely nothing to do with me or who I am. Hasan is an individual who, for reasons yet unknown, went postal and decided to kill his fellow soldiers.

Even before I had heard the news about the shooting, I noticed an email in my inbox from the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) with a statement condemning the attack and saying they were “appalled” by it. Later on, the late local news covered a press conference held by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) that joined in with statements of condemnation. Why are these organizations so quick to issue such statements? Of course, anyone in their right mind would be disturbed to hear about an incident like this one. But when these organizations are quick to put out condemnations they automatically link the incident with the respective communities they represent. Such statements are uncalled for and unnecessary.

Sure, there will inevitably be the usual Arab and Muslim bashing from ignorant, hateful people. Unfortunately, some will probably even commit violent acts on those they believe are Arab and/or Muslim. And I know that ADC and CAIR claim to put out these statements in order to curb such sentiments and attacks. But I can’t help but think that if these organizations stop immediately putting these statements out, especially before any motive has even been reached, then incidents like this will be begin to be viewed in the same light as any another violent attack. Certainly, all are tragic events but ones where the individuals who commit them would be scrutinized and/or vilified and not the communities they are from.

This is a sad story. But I won’t feel guilty, afraid or ashamed just because the suspect happens to be an Arab and a Muslim like me. That would be ridiculous."

http://www.kabobfest.com/2009/11/why-ar ... ndemn.html

fuck

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims.

No shit. That's not the fucking point. The point is that because Arabs and Iranians have been targeted in a VERY similar way to Muslims, they share similar sentiments.

catefrances

porchmonkey77 wrote:

Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims. You know what happens to non-Muslims in countries like the great US ally Turkey? Fun stuff like this:

In a gruesome assault against Turkey's tiny Christian community, five young Muslim Turks entered a Christian publishing office in the southeastern province of Malatya Wednesday and slit the throats of the three Protestant Christians present.

Two of the victims, Necati Aydin, 36, and Ugur Yuksel, 32, were Turkish converts from Islam. The third man, Tilmann Geske, 46, was a German citizen.

The Turkish press reported Thursday that four of the five young men arrested for the murders, all 19 to 20 years of age, admitted during initial interrogations that they were motivated by both "nationalist and religious feelings."

"We did this for our country," an identical note in the pockets of all five young men read, Channel D television station reported. "They are attacking our religion."

According to the newspaper Hurriyet, one of the suspects declared during police questioning, "We didn't do this for ourselves. We did it for our religion. May this be a lesson to the enemies of religion."

heres my theory.. islam is 600 years younger than christianity i like to look back and see where christianity was 600 years ago before i go condemning a religion as being worse than another. and please do not try and tell me we, as the race of mankind, are more civilised than we were in the 1400s or some crap like that. and do not think for a second im condoning their actions either. im just trying to apply some logic to the illogical.

phillypjhead

heres my theory.. islam is 600 years younger than christianity i like to look back and see where christianity was 600 years ago before i go condemning a religion as being worse than another. and please do not try and tell me we, as the race of mankind, are more civilised than we were in the 1400s or some crap like that. and do not think for a second im condoning their actions either. im just trying to apply some logic to the illogical.[/quote]

You have a Darwin avatar, but don't believe we've evolved in the last 600 years?

Cosmo

porchmonkey77 wrote:

...
Again this thread moves to race. Arab and Persian are races, Muslim is a word used to describe someone of the Islamic faith. All Arabs and Persians are NOT Muslims. You know what happens to non-Muslims in countries like the great US ally Turkey? Fun stuff like this:

In a gruesome assault against Turkey's tiny Christian community, five young Muslim Turks entered a Christian publishing office in the southeastern province of Malatya Wednesday and slit the throats of the three Protestant Christians present.

Two of the victims, Necati Aydin, 36, and Ugur Yuksel, 32, were Turkish converts from Islam. The third man, Tilmann Geske, 46, was a German citizen.

The Turkish press reported Thursday that four of the five young men arrested for the murders, all 19 to 20 years of age, admitted during initial interrogations that they were motivated by both "nationalist and religious feelings."

"We did this for our country," an identical note in the pockets of all five young men read, Channel D television station reported. "They are attacking our religion."

According to the newspaper Hurriyet, one of the suspects declared during police questioning, "We didn't do this for ourselves. We did it for our religion. May this be a lesson to the enemies of religion."

...
Which is why I specificly stated Muslim Arabs and/or Muslim Persians (like i would describe Christian Americans). I know there are varying factors.
...
Regarding your tragic story... bottom line, some people take their archaic beliefs in things written by Men, 4000 years ago... way too fucking seriously.

catefrances

porchmonkey77 wrote:

You have a Darwin avatar, but don't believe we've evolved in the last 600 years?

with some things no i dont.

Cosmo

catefrances wrote:

with some things no i dont.

...
Evolution is a slow process... 600 years is less than a blink of an eye to Evolution.
Knowledge, is something else. We have learned a lot about our Natural world in the past 600 years... and we have learned a lot of shitty stuff in that time, too.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

catefrances wrote:

with some things no i dont.

...
Evolution is a slow process... 600 years is less than a blink of an eye to Evolution.
Knowledge, is something else. We have learned a lot about our Natural world in the past 600 years... and we have learned a lot of shitty stuff in that time, too.

and when it comes to some things we have learnt nothing.

rebornFixer

While I still regret my emotional outburst earlier in this thread, information coming to light suggests that the influence of extremist ideologies MIGHT have been relevant in this case. I'd like to thank people like Triumphant Angel for jumping all over my nuts.

rebornFixer

Oh, and that's the`last comment I will have on the topic, because apparently my Caucasian heritage precludes me from having an informed opinion on how Muslims must think.