Rajai Davis 2/$10 mil or Brett Gardner 4/$52? There's 42 million that could have kept cano (the difference, not the total).
This contract will be an albatross. $13 a year for a guy that's nothing special. There are 20 guys like him. And speed does not age well. And he's redundant. We have Ellsbury.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Extended Gardner. 4 years $52 mil. Did not see that coming but a big fan.
Wow thats a great deal
I sense sarcasm only bc I can't believe you think that makes sense. With Ellsbury signed, this deal makes no sense. I was in agreement with letting Cano go, but when you waste 52 mill like this it makes no sense.
The only thing questionable about the deal is that they have 2 no power outfielders moving forward. They are going to have to make sure they get power out of both dh and rf. I know you don't like Gardner and I think he strikes out too much but I think this is more than a fair deal. Like cashman said, very comparable to bourn. Gardner was a 3+ win player last year. I am looking forward to watching ellsbury and Gardner wrecking havoc on the bases for the next few years.
A lot of outfield prospects just became trade bait, especially mason Williams which I do think is pretty unfortunate. Just can't have 3 no power outfielders
Rajai Davis 2/$10 mil or Brett Gardner 4/$52? There's 42 million that could have kept cano (the difference, not the total).
This contract will be an albatross. $13 a year for a guy that's nothing special. There are 20 guys like him. And speed does not age well. And he's redundant. We have Ellsbury.
You're kidding with the rajai davis comparison, right?
Check out the Dave cameron post about speed aging from around the time ellsbury signed. There couldn't be a bigger misconception. On average, speed guys age better than bigger sluggers
Extended Gardner. 4 years $52 mil. Did not see that coming but a big fan.
Wow thats a great deal
I sense sarcasm only bc I can't believe you think that makes sense. With Ellsbury signed, this deal makes no sense. I was in agreement with letting Cano go, but when you waste 52 mill like this it makes no sense.
Not at all, its a great deal because he's a solid player who certainly would've gotten more on the open market after the season. We got a team option for a 5th year and he didn't get a no trade clause which gives us the flexibility to move him down the road. Not sure why you would let him walk considering whats out there next year, who would you want to replace him?
With the signing of Ellsbury, Gardner is slated to return to left field, which might be a suboptimal arrangement if he were on some other team, but works out well for the Yankees, since the left-field area of their ballpark is considerably larger than most. On a per-season basis, Gardner’s defense has actually been significantly more valuable at that spot; his DRS per 1,200 innings — roughly 135 full games, and right around his average for his last three full seasons — is 26 runs above average in left, 17 runs above average in center. His play in left earned him Fielding Bible Awards in both 2010-2011 as the majors’ best defender at the position.
In theory, Gardner’s bat isn’t as valuable as a leftfielder as it would be as a centerfielder, since leftfielders are typically expected to produce more, but the gap between the average production at those two positions has narrowed in recent years. In 2013, the two positions were just five points apart in terms of OPS (.735 for left field, .730 for center), while in 2012, the gap was just nine points. In 2011, centerfielders actually outproduced leftfielders by seven points (.735 to .728) — part of an odd trend I documented at Baseball Prospectus.
Gardner made just $2.85 million last year, his second year of arbitration eligibility, and he more or less doubled it for 2014, agreeing to a $5.6 million salary back in January. This deal, which doesn’t take effect until 2015, includes a $12.5 million option and a $2.0 million buyout for 2019. By extending him now, the Yankees will take a bit of a luxury tax hit this year since the average annual value of the years for which he’s under contract jumps from $5.6 million to $11.72 million ($58.6 million divided by five). That matters less now that they’ve gone past the $189 million tax threshold that influenced so many decisions for the past two winters. On the other hand, that $11.72 million is less than the $13 million AAV that would have been in place had this deal not been agreed to until next winter, and by signing him now, the Yankees are avoiding the likelihood that he could command more with another good season under his belt.
Indeed, Gardner probably would have netted a contract worth at least $15 million per year had he reached free agency given his ability to cover center, and possibly around $20 million per year. Despite never having an offensive breakout as big as Ellsbury’s 32-homer, 39-steal 2011, his defense has put him on par with his new neighbor in terms of total value. In fact, he’s been the more valuable of the two in terms of WAR if one goes as far back as 2009 (18.0 to 17.5) or 2010 (15.7 to 14.8), though that has a whole lot to do with the timing of each player’s injuries. Still, their similarity in value is unmistakeable; on a per-600 PA basis since 2010, Gardner has been worth 5.2 WAR, Ellsbury 5.0. If he’s worth half that going forward, the Yankees will more or less break even on the contract given the market rate of $5.45 million per win.
Rajai Davis 2/$10 mil or Brett Gardner 4/$52? There's 42 million that could have kept cano (the difference, not the total).
This contract will be an albatross. $13 a year for a guy that's nothing special. There are 20 guys like him. And speed does not age well. And he's redundant. We have Ellsbury.
You're kidding with the rajai davis comparison, right?
Similar batters through age 29:
Lenny Green (or, I should say, the IMMORTAL Lenny Green) Gil Coan DEION SANDERS Endy Chavez
Yes, Deion Sanders. I don't care if guys are going for this kind of money. You can find this type of player anywhere. And when you already have a CF and Lead off guy, why take the poor man's version? If you wanted to do this, why sign Ellsbury? The whole thing smacks of Hal trying to show that he wants homegrown talent. I'd rather he spent the extra $52 mill on Cano and found a nice power platoon in LF. Hell, let Ichiro play LF if you're worried about it being too big for other fielders. You don't pay $13 million a year to a low on base, steals are your only benefit, good fielding LF. So, while their infield deteriorates completely, we have a nice fielding LFer who can steal bases (though not really all that well % wise - you do realize he was caught 25% of the time last year, right?).
He is a nice OF if you can have him for a couple mill like they do now. Once you start paying market rate, there's other better ways to spend that money. Like on a difference making 2B.
Quite frankly, why not sign Drew for 3/$27 instead? Not that he's great or you can't find a decent replacement. But he's cheaper and not duplicative to what you already have. To me there was no rush to locking Gardner up. He's nothing special. A nice complementary piece.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
I don't necessarily disagree with you on Drew. I don't get that situation at all.
You know what it is? Clubs sticking it to Boras. They can't do it often, but it does happen. Drew would have been better off with another agent this time around. Though, truth be told, he'll probalby sign a 1 year/$8 mill somewhere and then get $30 for 3 next year when someone doesn't have to lose a draft pick (which is the other issue here. While in concept that rule is a good one, there are times it hurts the player). Boras doesn't do what he does for nothing.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Cano already talking about how the mariners need more players. Fucking phenomenal. You're not on te Yankees anymore, buddy
Idiot.
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Cano already talking about how the mariners need more players. Fucking phenomenal. You're not on te Yankees anymore, buddy
Idiot.
Just wait. First home stand, he's going to say it rains too much.
He thought the Mariners could trade him as soon as spring training opened, theyd pay 80% of his salary like the Vernon Wells thing, and he'd be back in NY by May.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
never thought the YANKEE thread would be reduced to cliffy talking to himself. Thanks, 10C.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
never thought the YANKEE thread would be reduced to cliffy talking to himself. Thanks, 10C.
Word. I am going to have to go cause some problems in the Phillies thread.
When my giants start tearing it up, you can stir shit in our thread.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Is first base going to be a complete disaster this year? I have a bad feeling about Tex.
Is Tex playing in spring training?
Yeah, a couple weeks behind. Was supposed to take BP yesterday but didn't have any pitchers scheduled to throw to him. He may be today. He just said that his wrist is going to be tight until June or so. And this is the same injury that fucked with Ortiz for well over a year and made him consider retirement. That said, Ortiz is back and good, but just not sure Tex will be this year.
never thought the YANKEE thread would be reduced to cliffy talking to himself. Thanks, 10C.
Word. I am going to have to go cause some problems in the Phillies thread.
When my giants start tearing it up, you can stir shit in our thread.
Ha, fair enough. Don't hold your breath there. I'll check in when the Yanks trade for fat third baseman.
predictably enough, there's no smilie for :eek: :eek: :eek:
X(
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
And this is the same injury that fucked with Ortiz for well over a year and made him resume PED's. That said, Ortiz is back and good, but just not sure Tex will be this year.
fixed.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
And this is the same injury that fucked with Ortiz for well over a year and made him resume PED's. That said, Ortiz is back and good, but just not sure Tex will be this year.
Ha, fair enough. Don't hold your breath there. I'll check in when the Yanks trade for fat third baseman.
predictably enough, there's no smilie for :eek: :eek: :eek:
X(
HA
Can you imagine how fat he would look in pinstripes?
Didn't he lose weight this year?
vertical stripes are supposed to be slimming. BTW, vertical (i.e. pin) stripes look like shit :eek:
panda has lost forty pounds. he is going to kill it. it's a contract year
good looking fella, no?
does his head seem kinda big for his body? :eek:
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
^^^^ open the quote, quote quote. 10C fucked this place up royally.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Comments
This contract will be an albatross. $13 a year for a guy that's nothing special. There are 20 guys like him. And speed does not age well. And he's redundant. We have Ellsbury.
A lot of outfield prospects just became trade bait, especially mason Williams which I do think is pretty unfortunate. Just can't have 3 no power outfielders
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/2015-mlb-free-agents.html
Heres a good article on the signing worth a read
With the signing of Ellsbury, Gardner is slated to return to left field, which might be a suboptimal arrangement if he were on some other team, but works out well for the Yankees, since the left-field area of their ballpark is considerably larger than most. On a per-season basis, Gardner’s defense has actually been significantly more valuable at that spot; his DRS per 1,200 innings — roughly 135 full games, and right around his average for his last three full seasons — is 26 runs above average in left, 17 runs above average in center. His play in left earned him Fielding Bible Awards in both 2010-2011 as the majors’ best defender at the position.
In theory, Gardner’s bat isn’t as valuable as a leftfielder as it would be as a centerfielder, since leftfielders are typically expected to produce more, but the gap between the average production at those two positions has narrowed in recent years. In 2013, the two positions were just five points apart in terms of OPS (.735 for left field, .730 for center), while in 2012, the gap was just nine points. In 2011, centerfielders actually outproduced leftfielders by seven points (.735 to .728) — part of an odd trend I documented at Baseball Prospectus.
Gardner made just $2.85 million last year, his second year of arbitration eligibility, and he more or less doubled it for 2014, agreeing to a $5.6 million salary back in January. This deal, which doesn’t take effect until 2015, includes a $12.5 million option and a $2.0 million buyout for 2019. By extending him now, the Yankees will take a bit of a luxury tax hit this year since the average annual value of the years for which he’s under contract jumps from $5.6 million to $11.72 million ($58.6 million divided by five). That matters less now that they’ve gone past the $189 million tax threshold that influenced so many decisions for the past two winters. On the other hand, that $11.72 million is less than the $13 million AAV that would have been in place had this deal not been agreed to until next winter, and by signing him now, the Yankees are avoiding the likelihood that he could command more with another good season under his belt.
Indeed, Gardner probably would have netted a contract worth at least $15 million per year had he reached free agency given his ability to cover center, and possibly around $20 million per year. Despite never having an offensive breakout as big as Ellsbury’s 32-homer, 39-steal 2011, his defense has put him on par with his new neighbor in terms of total value. In fact, he’s been the more valuable of the two in terms of WAR if one goes as far back as 2009 (18.0 to 17.5) or 2010 (15.7 to 14.8), though that has a whole lot to do with the timing of each player’s injuries. Still, their similarity in value is unmistakeable; on a per-600 PA basis since 2010, Gardner has been worth 5.2 WAR, Ellsbury 5.0. If he’s worth half that going forward, the Yankees will more or less break even on the contract given the market rate of $5.45 million per win.
http://mlb.si.com/2014/02/23/brett-gardner-new-york-yankees-extension/
Lenny Green (or, I should say, the IMMORTAL Lenny Green)
Gil Coan
DEION SANDERS
Endy Chavez
Yes, Deion Sanders. I don't care if guys are going for this kind of money. You can find this type of player anywhere. And when you already have a CF and Lead off guy, why take the poor man's version? If you wanted to do this, why sign Ellsbury? The whole thing smacks of Hal trying to show that he wants homegrown talent. I'd rather he spent the extra $52 mill on Cano and found a nice power platoon in LF. Hell, let Ichiro play LF if you're worried about it being too big for other fielders. You don't pay $13 million a year to a low on base, steals are your only benefit, good fielding LF. So, while their infield deteriorates completely, we have a nice fielding LFer who can steal bases (though not really all that well % wise - you do realize he was caught 25% of the time last year, right?).
He is a nice OF if you can have him for a couple mill like they do now. Once you start paying market rate, there's other better ways to spend that money. Like on a difference making 2B.
Quite frankly, why not sign Drew for 3/$27 instead? Not that he's great or you can't find a decent replacement. But he's cheaper and not duplicative to what you already have. To me there was no rush to locking Gardner up. He's nothing special. A nice complementary piece.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
He thought the Mariners could trade him as soon as spring training opened, theyd pay 80% of his salary like the Vernon Wells thing, and he'd be back in NY by May.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
X(
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Can you imagine how fat he would look in pinstripes?
Didn't he lose weight this year?
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Good god. That looks like a completely different person.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14