I have no idea. I didn't sit there and do the math, I looked up his 2011 stats and found the breakdowns. If you want to know his ERA vs the AL East, I can tell you it was 3.70 but that includes Baltimore and you don't want to include them for some reason even though they're in the division.
You would be wrong. It was high against Boston this year, but his ERA against Tampa was 2.51 and against Toronto it was 3.30. Also, from 2009-2010, he was 4-2 with a 3.04 ERA against Boston.
what is his era combined against tampa, boston and toronto? ... my claim was for those 3 teams combined based on what Edson said ...
well ... if you followed the conversation - you would know why ... if his ERA is 3.70 with baltimore, i'm pretty sure it will be over 4 if we don't count them ...
either way - if you think he deserves to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball ... that's your perogative ... i don't think he's worth that much ...
I understand why the Yanks wanted to keep CC. He's perfect for them. He's not gonna twirl shutouts, but they don't need him to. He's the 7-8 inning, 2-4 run guy, and that's usually good for a win with that offense. I mean, he's a really good pitcher, but I don't think he's great. And he wouldn't be worth that money for any other team. But if you've got it, you might as well spend it I guess.
exactly ... i've said numerous times that it's the yankees so, it's fine to spend the money ... my only point is that i don't think he's worth that much on the open market ... just because some team may give him that much doesn't mean he deserves it ... is rafael soriano worth the money?
I understand why the Yanks wanted to keep CC. He's perfect for them. He's not gonna twirl shutouts, but they don't need him to. He's the 7-8 inning, 2-4 run guy, and that's usually good for a win with that offense. I mean, he's a really good pitcher, but I don't think he's great. And he wouldn't be worth that money for any other team. But if you've got it, you might as well spend it I guess.
exactly ... i've said numerous times that it's the yankees so, it's fine to spend the money ... my only point is that i don't think he's worth that much on the open market ... just because some team may give him that much doesn't mean he deserves it ... is rafael soriano worth the money?
Not sure I have much room to talk as my team has certainly thrown around some silly money in recent years. At least we don't have anyone signed through their age 42 season. (except maybe Contreras, if he turns 42 this year :? )
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I understand why the Yanks wanted to keep CC. He's perfect for them. He's not gonna twirl shutouts, but they don't need him to. He's the 7-8 inning, 2-4 run guy, and that's usually good for a win with that offense. I mean, he's a really good pitcher, but I don't think he's great. And he wouldn't be worth that money for any other team. But if you've got it, you might as well spend it I guess.
CC started 17 games this year where he gave up 2 runs or less, Roy Halladay started 20 and CC pitched 4 more innings on the year. Now I clearly don't thinK CC is Halladay but I don't get the talk of CC not being an ace. It's absurd. Johnny has never liked CC so I think he is slighly biased but to say he is not one of the better pitchers in baseball is insane.
I understand why the Yanks wanted to keep CC. He's perfect for them. He's not gonna twirl shutouts, but they don't need him to. He's the 7-8 inning, 2-4 run guy, and that's usually good for a win with that offense. I mean, he's a really good pitcher, but I don't think he's great. And he wouldn't be worth that money for any other team. But if you've got it, you might as well spend it I guess.
CC started 17 games this year where he gave up 2 runs or less, Roy Halladay started 20 and CC pitched 4 more innings on the year. Now I clearly don't thinK CC is Halladay but I don't get the talk of CC not being an ace. It's absurd. Johnny has never liked CC so I think he is slighly biased but to say he is not one of the better pitchers in baseball is insane.
My 1st-person impressions have been a Shane Victorino grand slam and a Pedro Feliz game-tying homer, so that probably has some influence. Of course, the guy was on 3-days rest both times, so gotta give him some credit.
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Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I understand why the Yanks wanted to keep CC. He's perfect for them. He's not gonna twirl shutouts, but they don't need him to. He's the 7-8 inning, 2-4 run guy, and that's usually good for a win with that offense. I mean, he's a really good pitcher, but I don't think he's great. And he wouldn't be worth that money for any other team. But if you've got it, you might as well spend it I guess.
CC started 17 games this year where he gave up 2 runs or less, Roy Halladay started 20 and CC pitched 4 more innings on the year. Now I clearly don't thinK CC is Halladay but I don't get the talk of CC not being an ace. It's absurd. Johnny has never liked CC so I think he is slighly biased but to say he is not one of the better pitchers in baseball is insane.
My 1st-person impressions have been a Shane Victorino grand slam and a Pedro Feliz game-tying homer, so that probably has some influence. Of course, the guy was on 3-days rest both times, so gotta give him some credit.
That's two bad pitches, he has definitely given up some big hits. The guy takes the ball 5 days and give the Yankees a great chance to win. That's what you need out of an ace. He has been huge for the Yankees for the past 3 years.
This was not a Cashman decision so I don't think you can really hold it against the Yankees front office.
again ... my only point initially was that i don't think CC is worth the money ... i've agreed that it's the right decision to sign him based on all the factors ...
he is definitely an ace but he's getting paid pretty much as the best pitcher in baseball of which he isn't imo
I've followed the conversation. He said Felix Hernandez wouldn't want to play in the AL East and have to face Boston, Toronto, etc. He didn't exclude anyone, he just used "et al" instead of listing every team. You're excluding Baltimore because you're trying to skew the results, which is the same reason you want to lump them all together instead of looking at each team in the division individually. Boston hammered him this year in 3 games. No other team in the division hit him that well. In the past, he's pitched well against them. Hell, he pitched well against them in his first and last starts against them this year (2.31 ERA, both games in Boston). Three rough starts against one team isn't how you judge a player.
well ... if you followed the conversation - you would know why ... if his ERA is 3.70 with baltimore, i'm pretty sure it will be over 4 if we don't count them ...
either way - if you think he deserves to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball ... that's your perogative ... i don't think he's worth that much ...
This was not a Cashman decision so I don't think you can really hold it against the Yankees front office.
again ... my only point initially was that i don't think CC is worth the money ... i've agreed that it's the right decision to sign him based on all the factors ...
he is definitely an ace but he's getting paid pretty much as the best pitcher in baseball of which he isn't imo
Fair enough. I agree that he isn't the best pitcher in baseball but that's what happens when you pitch for the Yankees, you get paid.
He's probably not the best pitcher in baseball, but he's in the top 2-4. Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball. After that it's a toss up. Verlander had an amazing year this year, but he's never come close to that level of excellence before.
This was not a Cashman decision so I don't think you can really hold it against the Yankees front office.
again ... my only point initially was that i don't think CC is worth the money ... i've agreed that it's the right decision to sign him based on all the factors ...
he is definitely an ace but he's getting paid pretty much as the best pitcher in baseball of which he isn't imo
I've followed the conversation. He said Felix Hernandez wouldn't want to play in the AL East and have to face Boston, Toronto, etc. He didn't exclude anyone, he just used "et al" instead of listing every team. You're excluding Baltimore because you're trying to skew the results, which is the same reason you want to lump them all together instead of looking at each team in the division individually. Boston hammered him this year in 3 games. No other team in the division hit him that well. In the past, he's pitched well against them. Hell, he pitched well against them in his first and last starts against them this year (2.31 ERA, both games in Boston). Three rough starts against one team isn't how you judge a player.
it has nothing to do with skewing the numbers ... it's about how he pitches against the good teams in his division ... he didn't include baltimore because that team wouldn't support his argument ... i actually included tampa even tho he pitched well against them this year to help with the numbers ...
also, i think he's on the decline ... it's not based on anything other than owning him on my keeper league in fantasy baseball ... again, if you think he's worth the money ... great ... i don't ...
Yanks cut Brackman loose. Too bad he didn't work out. He'll get another chance with someone else and hopefully he can turn it around. The Killer B's are down to two, now I have some seriously high hopes for these two..
I have no idea. I didn't sit there and do the math, I looked up his 2011 stats and found the breakdowns. If you want to know his ERA vs the AL East, I can tell you it was 3.70 but that includes Baltimore and you don't want to include them for some reason even though they're in the division.
You would be wrong. It was high against Boston this year, but his ERA against Tampa was 2.51 and against Toronto it was 3.30. Also, from 2009-2010, he was 4-2 with a 3.04 ERA against Boston.
what is his era combined against tampa, boston and toronto? ... my claim was for those 3 teams combined based on what Edson said ...
I think it's fair to include Baltimore. I think that was both our points even though I didn't include them.
What is everyone's era vs those teams? I am guessing higher than 3.70. Plus, when you have to pitch against them that many times, there's more wear and tear. That is, pitching vs. Tex then Oak, Anaheim, etc. is a lot easier than Bal, TB, Bos, Tor, back to Bos, and then get Oak. That's what makes pitching in the AL East so hard.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
He's probably not the best pitcher in baseball, but he's in the top 2-4.
Don't be ridiculous. He would be 4th in the Phillies' rotation. And he's come up fairly small in a large sample of playoff starts.
And don't give me shit about Lee's playoff game this year. He was squeezed by the umpire (after Larussa's bitch fest) and had unlucky BABIP/poor fielding. Cliffy likes his sabermetrics and should understand that.
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He's probably not the best pitcher in baseball, but he's in the top 2-4.
Don't be ridiculous. He would be 4th in the Phillies' rotation.
Since Lee was being recruited as his #2, that would be funny. He'd be 1A to Halladay. If you think Lee and Hamels are better, I think you need a new sport.
But, it is funny that Lee gets squeezed, but everyone else just sucks. Hilarious.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
He's probably not the best pitcher in baseball, but he's in the top 2-4.
Don't be ridiculous. He would be 4th in the Phillies' rotation.
Since Lee was being recruited as his #2, that would be funny. He'd be 1A to Halladay. If you think Lee and Hamels are better, I think you need a new sport.
But, it is funny that Lee gets squeezed, but everyone else just sucks. Hilarious.
I don't care what Lee was recruited to be. He is clearly a superior pitcher at this point. ERA+ for 2011 (just to keep this short): Cliff Lee 161; CC Sabathia 147. And career postseason ERA: Lee 2.52; Sabathia 4.81 in 15 starts (plus one relief appearance) - UGH.
Cole Hamels ERA+ in 2011 was 138, so maybe he would fight with CC for the #3 slot, on second thought.
This Phillies thing aside - Sabathia might be in the top 5 pitchers in the American League. I'd have to look into it a little more. He's probably in the top 15 in MLB; I'll give you that.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
He's probably not the best pitcher in baseball, but he's in the top 2-4.
Don't be ridiculous. He would be 4th in the Phillies' rotation. And he's come up fairly small in a large sample of playoff starts.
And don't give me shit about Lee's playoff game this year. He was squeezed by the umpire (after Larussa's bitch fest) and had unlucky BABIP/poor fielding. Cliffy likes his sabermetrics and should understand that.
I don't think he would be 4th in the Phillies rotation but it really is 3 aces so whatever. I would say he's two, but I am biased since I hate Cliff Lee. I don't think you can knock Lee too much for this years playoffs since it was only one game but the dude was absolutely brutal in last years world series.
There are a number of pitchers I would take over CC based on age but he is definitely one of the best pitchers in the game. I don't know about 2-4 but he is up there, depends on the year I guess.
This Phillies thing aside - Sabathia might be in the top 5 pitchers in the American League. I'd have to look into it a little more. He's probably in the top 15 in MLB; I'll give you that.
This is nonsense. Who is better than him aside from Verlander and Felix in the AL? Not Beckett or Lester after this year. Weaver, Price and Haren aren't better than him. Thats not to say I wouldn't take some of these guys moving forward based on age, but the only two you can say are better than him are Verlander and Felix.
Bringing in the NL, Halladay is better, I already said how I feel about Lee and then you have Kershaw, Johnson and Tim. I would say there are only 2 or 3 that could be said are better than him overall.
He would get slaughtered by that division. Good riddance to that guy. :twisted: Maybe he can go work for FEMA.
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He would get slaughtered by that division. Good riddance to that guy. :twisted: Maybe he can go work for FEMA.
my how quick the love vanished
Oswalt was never loved (in Philly at least). He was on the team, so you root for him to win, but he wasn't a great fit for the city. And then he hurt his back operating heavy machinery in Mississippi and blamed something or someone else every time he lost.
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Oswalt was never loved (in Philly at least). He was on the team, so you root for him to win, but he wasn't a great fit for the city. And then he hurt his back operating heavy machinery in Mississippi and blamed something or someone else every time he lost.
Sounds like he would last about 3.2 seconds with the New York media.
Comments
well ... if you followed the conversation - you would know why ... if his ERA is 3.70 with baltimore, i'm pretty sure it will be over 4 if we don't count them ...
either way - if you think he deserves to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball ... that's your perogative ... i don't think he's worth that much ...
exactly ... i've said numerous times that it's the yankees so, it's fine to spend the money ... my only point is that i don't think he's worth that much on the open market ... just because some team may give him that much doesn't mean he deserves it ... is rafael soriano worth the money?
:oops:
But I think CC is worth it.
Not sure I have much room to talk as my team has certainly thrown around some silly money in recent years. At least we don't have anyone signed through their age 42 season.
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CC started 17 games this year where he gave up 2 runs or less, Roy Halladay started 20 and CC pitched 4 more innings on the year. Now I clearly don't thinK CC is Halladay but I don't get the talk of CC not being an ace. It's absurd. Johnny has never liked CC so I think he is slighly biased but to say he is not one of the better pitchers in baseball is insane.
This was not a Cashman decision so I don't think you can really hold it against the Yankees front office.
My 1st-person impressions have been a Shane Victorino grand slam and a Pedro Feliz game-tying homer, so that probably has some influence. Of course, the guy was on 3-days rest both times, so gotta give him some credit.
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That's two bad pitches, he has definitely given up some big hits. The guy takes the ball 5 days and give the Yankees a great chance to win. That's what you need out of an ace. He has been huge for the Yankees for the past 3 years.
again ... my only point initially was that i don't think CC is worth the money ... i've agreed that it's the right decision to sign him based on all the factors ...
he is definitely an ace but he's getting paid pretty much as the best pitcher in baseball of which he isn't imo
Fair enough. I agree that he isn't the best pitcher in baseball but that's what happens when you pitch for the Yankees, you get paid.
it has nothing to do with skewing the numbers ... it's about how he pitches against the good teams in his division ... he didn't include baltimore because that team wouldn't support his argument ... i actually included tampa even tho he pitched well against them this year to help with the numbers ...
also, i think he's on the decline ... it's not based on anything other than owning him on my keeper league in fantasy baseball ... again, if you think he's worth the money ... great ... i don't ...
I think it's fair to include Baltimore. I think that was both our points even though I didn't include them.
What is everyone's era vs those teams? I am guessing higher than 3.70. Plus, when you have to pitch against them that many times, there's more wear and tear. That is, pitching vs. Tex then Oak, Anaheim, etc. is a lot easier than Bal, TB, Bos, Tor, back to Bos, and then get Oak. That's what makes pitching in the AL East so hard.
Don't be ridiculous. He would be 4th in the Phillies' rotation. And he's come up fairly small in a large sample of playoff starts.
And don't give me shit about Lee's playoff game this year. He was squeezed by the umpire (after Larussa's bitch fest) and had unlucky BABIP/poor fielding. Cliffy likes his sabermetrics and should understand that.
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Since Lee was being recruited as his #2, that would be funny. He'd be 1A to Halladay. If you think Lee and Hamels are better, I think you need a new sport.
But, it is funny that Lee gets squeezed, but everyone else just sucks. Hilarious.
I don't care what Lee was recruited to be. He is clearly a superior pitcher at this point. ERA+ for 2011 (just to keep this short): Cliff Lee 161; CC Sabathia 147. And career postseason ERA: Lee 2.52; Sabathia 4.81 in 15 starts (plus one relief appearance) - UGH.
Cole Hamels ERA+ in 2011 was 138, so maybe he would fight with CC for the #3 slot, on second thought.
This Phillies thing aside - Sabathia might be in the top 5 pitchers in the American League. I'd have to look into it a little more. He's probably in the top 15 in MLB; I'll give you that.
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I don't think he would be 4th in the Phillies rotation but it really is 3 aces so whatever. I would say he's two, but I am biased since I hate Cliff Lee. I don't think you can knock Lee too much for this years playoffs since it was only one game but the dude was absolutely brutal in last years world series.
There are a number of pitchers I would take over CC based on age but he is definitely one of the best pitchers in the game. I don't know about 2-4 but he is up there, depends on the year I guess.
This is nonsense. Who is better than him aside from Verlander and Felix in the AL? Not Beckett or Lester after this year. Weaver, Price and Haren aren't better than him. Thats not to say I wouldn't take some of these guys moving forward based on age, but the only two you can say are better than him are Verlander and Felix.
Bringing in the NL, Halladay is better, I already said how I feel about Lee and then you have Kershaw, Johnson and Tim. I would say there are only 2 or 3 that could be said are better than him overall.
old man oswalt coming to town cliffy???
ughhhhhhhhhh hope not
He would get slaughtered by that division. Good riddance to that guy. :twisted: Maybe he can go work for FEMA.
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I doubt it but you never know. I think he'll get a multi year deal somewhere and it sure as hell better not be from the Yankees.
Darvish or a trade or possibly Buherle (don't see him leaving though). Stay the fuck away from Wilson.
my how quick the love vanished
Yeah, I mean, he only had the second lowest ERA of his career this year.
Oswalt was never loved (in Philly at least). He was on the team, so you root for him to win, but he wasn't a great fit for the city. And then he hurt his back operating heavy machinery in Mississippi and blamed something or someone else every time he lost.
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Sounds like he would last about 3.2 seconds with the New York media.
ya ... but what was his era since august? ... i'm gonna say north of 4 ... that would be the last 2.5 months if we include the playoffs ...
edit: added "months"
The guy had a bad 6 weeks, it happens in baseball. He gained weight and they went with a 6 man rotation. I think he'll be fine.