so what you are saying is that god keeps us just the right distance from the sun....yes I believe that
...
Nope.
Just that at this time, in this space... the Earth is just the right distance from the Sun to sustain life. It wasn't always that situation... and it won't always be that situation. Eventually, the planet will no longer exist and life here will cease to exist.
Is this what God 'designed' for us? No. This is simply what happened... the Earth formed... the right conditions existed... life flourished... we evolved. Eventually, it will all be gone, most likely when the Sun cools and consumes us (unless another asteroid takes us out, like the one that did the dinosaurs in).
Where's the 'Intelligence' in that design?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm just saying at the end of the day, we don't really know how the universe began.
So just to be safe we better throw in "it also could have been made by a lonely God in a big white dress so someone would worship him."
Fucking Christ.
That is the popular way to visualize God. I don't think that is the case. I think God wears a black bodysuit with turtleneck with a soul patch just like yours. Just like Jesus was surely not a fair haired, blue eyed surfer dude like depicted in most paintings. Maybe God really is Alanis Morrissette. Nobody really knows. And of course you're right, maybe he doesn't exist. But I believe he does.
How fucking closed-minded do you have to be in order to believe our world/universe is here just by an accidental set of circumstances.
About as delusional as you have to believe that a big human being in the sky that loves only humans made this all up 5000 years ago and is just throwing a bunch of tragedy at us to test our faith in him.
That was the predictable response I was expecting.
Ask a stupid, ignorant, stereotypical question, you're going to get a stupid, ignorant, stereotypical response.
"Agnosticism (Greek: α- a-, without + γνώσις gnōsis, knowledge; after Gnosticism) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, spiritual beings, or even ultimate reality — are unknown or, in some forms of agnosticism, unknowable.[1] It is not a religious declaration in itself, and an agnostic may also be a theist or an atheist.[2]" - wikipedia
a bad place to end the definition and so...
An agnostic atheist is atheistic because he or she does not believe in the existence of any deity and is also agnostic because he or she does not claim to have definitive knowledge that a deity does not exist. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who does believe that one or more deities exist but does not claim to have definitive knowledge of this.
I guess agnostic in the sense that I will not claim to understand the first second of the universe and while I do not feel any superior being is involved until science discovers the cause I am willing to leave a window open for the invisible man.
but I don't think it is likely
and thats where we differ. for me there is no possibility that God exists. and the door is not only closed but locked and deadbolted. i do believe richard dawkins calls that being level 7 degree atheist. he himself classes himself as a level 6 atheist... which means he is as agnostic only to the extent that he is agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden.
i thought when i was young that i believed in God but looking abck i think i was agnostic. then i stopped believing in the possibility of Gods existence. i was 11 years old. nothing since has made me change my mind or even sway from my conviction.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
How fucking closed-minded do you have to be in order to believe our world/universe is here just by an accidental set of circumstances.
About as delusional as you have to believe that a big human being in the sky that loves only humans made this all up 5000 years ago and is just throwing a bunch of tragedy at us to test our faith in him.
That was the predictable response I was expecting.
HAHA... closed minded.
I find that hilarious... since usually the opposite side would argue being close-minded...
just as close minded as the church who condemned a man who suggested the earth wasn't the center of the universe? and dinosaurs were just placed here by intelligent design just to trick us like bill hicks mentions ever so comically! oh yes and all the good points soulsinging brought up...
some people are just too afraid to believe man was not the ultimate product the universe was destined for.
i have some news for you, after we're gone the earth and the universe will be here for a lot longer.
Maybe God really is Alanis Morrissette. Nobody really knows. And of course you're right, maybe he doesn't exist. But I believe he does.
So to cover all the basis, why don't we also make sure school kids also know he words to "You Oughta Know" as well?
You are pretty much a text book example of why kids are dumb. "Oh... I don't know... I believe God might have been... you know... like... maybe he made the universe... so maybe we should allow both points of view in science class... doesn't seem like it would hurt..."
How fucking closed-minded do you have to be in order to believe our world/universe is here just by an accidental set of circumstances.
Yes, I'd rather believe in a guy who could raise the dead, walk on water, turn said water into wine and fill baskets with fish but couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post.
Maybe God really is Alanis Morrissette. Nobody really knows. And of course you're right, maybe he doesn't exist. But I believe he does.
So to cover all the basis, why don't we also make sure school kids also know he words to "You Oughta Know" as well?
You are pretty much a text book example of why kids are dumb. "Oh... I don't know... I believe God might have been... you know... like... maybe he made the universe... so maybe we should allow both points of view in science class... doesn't seem like it would hurt..."
religion is not science and sceince is not religion
intelegent design is not science it assumes that these animals magically apearred from now where
sceince is the quest for knowledge and understanding
religion is the surpression of knowledge and could if you want to see it a form of control
Rod Laver Arena - Feb 18, 2003
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
How fucking closed-minded do you have to be in order to believe our world/universe is here just by an accidental set of circumstances.
Yes, I'd rather believe in a guy who could raise the dead, walk on water, turn said water into wine and fill baskets with fish but couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post.
I dont think ive laughed so hard in a while.
"tacking him to a post" LOL
Maybe God really is Alanis Morrissette. Nobody really knows. And of course you're right, maybe he doesn't exist. But I believe he does.
So to cover all the basis, why don't we also make sure school kids also know he words to "You Oughta Know" as well?
You are pretty much a text book example of why kids are dumb. "Oh... I don't know... I believe God might have been... you know... like... maybe he made the universe... so maybe we should allow both points of view in science class... doesn't seem like it would hurt..."
My point, Mr. Wise Ass, is that you don't know just like I don't know. I don't think creationism should be taught in public schools. I believe in an absolute separation of church and state. Being an atheist doesn't make you smarter. Too many atheists, especially on this board, have a over-inflated sense of intelligence and enlightenment. :roll: Get over yourself.
Maybe God really is Alanis Morrissette. Nobody really knows. And of course you're right, maybe he doesn't exist. But I believe he does.
So to cover all the basis, why don't we also make sure school kids also know he words to "You Oughta Know" as well?
You are pretty much a text book example of why kids are dumb. "Oh... I don't know... I believe God might have been... you know... like... maybe he made the universe... so maybe we should allow both points of view in science class... doesn't seem like it would hurt..."
My point, Mr. Wise Ass, is that you don't know just like I don't know. I don't think creationism should be taught in public schools. I believe in an absolute separation of church and state. Being an atheist doesn't make you smarter. Too many atheists, especially on this board, have a over-inflated sense of intelligence and enlightenment. :roll: Get over yourself.
well said. I keep saying that atheists are equally fanatical and dogmatic about their beliefs as fundamental christians and moslems, and all you have to do is look at this board for confirmation of that.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Um... I'm not an atheist. But I keep my beliefs to myself and I don't think they belong in school.
agreed...when I was a believer I always considered it very personal...not something to broadcast...mainly because there are so many different beliefs
It amazes me now on Facebook how many people will post stuff about thanking Jesus for mundane things or asking for prayers for their kids football games, etc.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Hardly....to us it seems silly....kind of like saying..."boy those people that believe in gravity are really dogmatic about their beliefs"
sorry but you sound silly....
Thanks for illustrating my point. You have it all figured out, don't you? :roll:
"Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" -- or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel -- "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised." In terms of the history of science and knowledge in general, this appears absurd and arrogant to me, and I am perpetually astonished that so many people still manage to live with such a medieval attitude." - Robert A Wilson
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
oh well if Robert A Wilson said it I'll change my mind
:roll: :roll:
The message is what is important, not who said it. Hell... last night my buddy quoted Rush Limbaugh and I agreed with the statement.
I'm certainly not trying to proselytize my agnostisicm... I just feel like I'm screaming "I don't know" in this argument and you're screaming "I know" and we're debating who is right. We're all just robots, maybe my robot contains a little more mysticism than most.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
"Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" -- or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel -- "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised." In terms of the history of science and knowledge in general, this appears absurd and arrogant to me, and I am perpetually astonished that so many people still manage to live with such a medieval attitude." - Robert A Wilson
...
Isn't Mr. Wilson referring to Religion, here?
Science has changed since Medieval times... Religion has not. Knowledge adjusts to new discoveries... Belief (dogma) does not. Science texts are updated... the Bible remains unchanged.
...
I do agree with you when you say you don't know... I know that is the truth. No one knows. Anyone who claims to know the truth about God's existance (or non-existance) is not speaking the truth. They may BELIEVE it with all of their heart... but, no matter how much emotion or passion you throw into belief... it still does not make it truth.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
"Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" -- or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel -- "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised." In terms of the history of science and knowledge in general, this appears absurd and arrogant to me, and I am perpetually astonished that so many people still manage to live with such a medieval attitude." - Robert A Wilson
...
Isn't Mr. Wilson referring to Religion, here?
Science has changed since Medieval times... Religion has not. Knowledge adjusts to new discoveries... Belief (dogma) does not. Science texts are updated... the Bible remains unchanged.
...
I do agree with you when you say you don't know... I know that is the truth. No one knows. Anyone who claims to know the truth about God's existance (or non-existance) is not speaking the truth. They may BELIEVE it with all of their heart... but, no matter how much emotion or passion you throw into belief... it still does not make it truth.
No... my interpretation is that Wilson is saying that any belief or certitude about the universe/god/reality is delusional. It doesn't matter if it is theistic or atheistic. He goes on to point out that if you look at history, what we "knew" at one point in time is rarely the same at a latter point in time.
Model agnosticism seems to be the right term: no one model is 100% correct but no model is 100% incorrect either. Every model is in some sense true, some sense false, some sense meaningless, some true/false, some true/meaningless, some false/meaningless, and some true/false/meaningless.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I was just thinking about this topic, and I see the word Christian used a lot. Often times in a derogatory manner. My favorite being "idiot Christians". Why don't you guys ever include Muslims in your criticisms? Islam does hold many of the same basic beliefs. Why is it always Christians? I realize that the original topic of this thread was talking about Christian views on evolution, but that was derailed a while back. To the phuckstick who said Jesus "couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post"....what do you have to say about Muhammad? Do you guys just have a chip on your shoulder regarding Christians, or are you just too chickenshit to bash Islam as well?
I was just thinking about this topic, and I see the word Christian used a lot. Often times in a derogatory manner. My favorite being "idiot Christians". Why don't you guys ever include Muslims in your criticisms? Islam does hold many of the same basic beliefs. Why is it always Christians? I realize that the original topic of this thread was talking about Christian views on evolution, but that was derailed a while back. To the phuckstick who said Jesus "couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post"....what do you have to say about Muhammad? Do you guys just have a chip on your shoulder regarding Christians, or are you just too chickenshit to bash Islam as well?
I live in America. The people trying to fuck with me and my life and freedoms are Christians. Muslims don't have enough political clout here to cause me problems. If they ever get to that point, I'll give them even more shit than I give Christians. Promise.
I was just thinking about this topic, and I see the word Christian used a lot. Often times in a derogatory manner. My favorite being "idiot Christians". Why don't you guys ever include Muslims in your criticisms? Islam does hold many of the same basic beliefs. Why is it always Christians? I realize that the original topic of this thread was talking about Christian views on evolution, but that was derailed a while back. To the phuckstick who said Jesus "couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post"....what do you have to say about Muhammad? Do you guys just have a chip on your shoulder regarding Christians, or are you just too chickenshit to bash Islam as well?
I feel your pain man. That is some pretty inconsiderate shit... if someone was blasting my belief system (if I had one) I'd be pissed too. But to be clear... if you read my posts I usually write "fundamental Christians or Moslems" as an example. And I think, to most people, christianity is the religion that is most prevalent in their neck of the woods and the religion they take offense to because it is proselytized at home/school/church/whatever and they don't agree with it.
Also, in order to be "hipster" I think a prerequisite is that you have be a cynical atheist who trashes everyone elses beliefs, or in my case, strict adherence to non-belief in either direction.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I was just thinking about this topic, and I see the word Christian used a lot. Often times in a derogatory manner. My favorite being "idiot Christians". Why don't you guys ever include Muslims in your criticisms? Islam does hold many of the same basic beliefs. Why is it always Christians? I realize that the original topic of this thread was talking about Christian views on evolution, but that was derailed a while back. To the phuckstick who said Jesus "couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post"....what do you have to say about Muhammad? Do you guys just have a chip on your shoulder regarding Christians, or are you just too chickenshit to bash Islam as well?
I live in America. The people trying to fuck with me and my life and freedoms are Christians. Muslims don't have enough political clout here to cause me problems. If they ever get to that point, I'll give them even more shit than I give Christians. Promise.
Just curious... what specifically do christians do to "fuck with your life and freedoms?"
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I live in America. The people trying to fuck with me and my life and freedoms are Christians. Muslims don't have enough political clout here to cause me problems. If they ever get to that point, I'll give them even more shit than I give Christians. Promise.
Hahahaha....yeah.....let me know how that works out for you.
I was just thinking about this topic, and I see the word Christian used a lot. Often times in a derogatory manner. My favorite being "idiot Christians". Why don't you guys ever include Muslims in your criticisms? Islam does hold many of the same basic beliefs. Why is it always Christians? I realize that the original topic of this thread was talking about Christian views on evolution, but that was derailed a while back. To the phuckstick who said Jesus "couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post"....what do you have to say about Muhammad? Do you guys just have a chip on your shoulder regarding Christians, or are you just too chickenshit to bash Islam as well?
I live in America. The people trying to fuck with me and my life and freedoms are Christians. Muslims don't have enough political clout here to cause me problems. If they ever get to that point, I'll give them even more shit than I give Christians. Promise.
Just curious... what specifically do christians do to "fuck with your life and freedoms?"
blue laws that prevent me from buying booze when i want, genesis in classrooms that keeps the next generation at a serious disadvantage in the global economy, abstinence-only sex ed that doesn't work and thus is a drain on my society and tax dollars, lies about contraception that accomplish the same result, bans on porn, strip clubs, and prostitution, gay marriage bans in our constitutions that deprive my friends of rights i take for granted (like a nice, messy divorce), leaving bible tracts instead of tips when i wait on their tables in a restaurant, blocking critical medical research that could save the lives of many of my friends with horrible diseases, whining about people greeting them with "happy holidays" during december...
I was just thinking about this topic, and I see the word Christian used a lot. Often times in a derogatory manner. My favorite being "idiot Christians". Why don't you guys ever include Muslims in your criticisms? Islam does hold many of the same basic beliefs. Why is it always Christians? I realize that the original topic of this thread was talking about Christian views on evolution, but that was derailed a while back. To the phuckstick who said Jesus "couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post"....what do you have to say about Muhammad? Do you guys just have a chip on your shoulder regarding Christians, or are you just too chickenshit to bash Islam as well?
I've caught more shit from Christians than I have from Muslims. When I catch shit from Muslims, I make the same points
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I live in America. The people trying to fuck with me and my life and freedoms are Christians. Muslims don't have enough political clout here to cause me problems. If they ever get to that point, I'll give them even more shit than I give Christians. Promise.
Hahahaha....yeah.....let me know how that works out for you.
Couldn't hold both those one sentence thoughts in your head at the same time eh? Had to split them into 2 posts?
In the event Muslims ever gain the kind of numbers the Christian political movement has, check up on me. I'll be ranting at their bullshit too. But we both know it won't happen, so quit trying to dodge accountability for the bullshit of your fellows by pointing at Muslims and claiming they're worse. They may be, but I don't have to deal with them. I have to deal with you guys, and you're annoying enough.
I was just thinking about this topic, and I see the word Christian used a lot. Often times in a derogatory manner. My favorite being "idiot Christians". Why don't you guys ever include Muslims in your criticisms? Islam does hold many of the same basic beliefs. Why is it always Christians? I realize that the original topic of this thread was talking about Christian views on evolution, but that was derailed a while back. To the phuckstick who said Jesus "couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post"....what do you have to say about Muhammad? Do you guys just have a chip on your shoulder regarding Christians, or are you just too chickenshit to bash Islam as well?
...
Do you identify yourself with all Christians?
My guess... probably not.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
this thread has become a bit of christain bashing thread but we are talking about christianitys asualt on science with its current focus on evolution. I would not call my self an atheist but I do believe most of what they, espically about the bad points of religion. Though I do bash christians (can I lump all derivatives of this together) alot it is mainly because I dont see other religions in my part of the world trying to ram their belif system down my fucking throat. Regardless how I feel about the other religions muslim (for what they do to women), jewish (I hate what israel is doing to Palestine, but what can i do about it), etc, I am not constantly trying to have the belif system forced upon me.
Rod Laver Arena - Feb 18, 2003
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
Comments
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Nope.
Just that at this time, in this space... the Earth is just the right distance from the Sun to sustain life. It wasn't always that situation... and it won't always be that situation. Eventually, the planet will no longer exist and life here will cease to exist.
Is this what God 'designed' for us? No. This is simply what happened... the Earth formed... the right conditions existed... life flourished... we evolved. Eventually, it will all be gone, most likely when the Sun cools and consumes us (unless another asteroid takes us out, like the one that did the dinosaurs in).
Where's the 'Intelligence' in that design?
Hail, Hail!!!
That is the popular way to visualize God. I don't think that is the case. I think God wears a black bodysuit with turtleneck with a soul patch just like yours.
Ask a stupid, ignorant, stereotypical question, you're going to get a stupid, ignorant, stereotypical response.
and thats where we differ. for me there is no possibility that God exists. and the door is not only closed but locked and deadbolted. i do believe richard dawkins calls that being level 7 degree atheist. he himself classes himself as a level 6 atheist... which means he is as agnostic only to the extent that he is agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden.
i thought when i was young that i believed in God but looking abck i think i was agnostic. then i stopped believing in the possibility of Gods existence. i was 11 years old. nothing since has made me change my mind or even sway from my conviction.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
HAHA... closed minded.
I find that hilarious... since usually the opposite side would argue being close-minded...
just as close minded as the church who condemned a man who suggested the earth wasn't the center of the universe? and dinosaurs were just placed here by intelligent design just to trick us like bill hicks mentions ever so comically! oh yes and all the good points soulsinging brought up...
some people are just too afraid to believe man was not the ultimate product the universe was destined for.
i have some news for you, after we're gone the earth and the universe will be here for a lot longer.
So to cover all the basis, why don't we also make sure school kids also know he words to "You Oughta Know" as well?
You are pretty much a text book example of why kids are dumb. "Oh... I don't know... I believe God might have been... you know... like... maybe he made the universe... so maybe we should allow both points of view in science class... doesn't seem like it would hurt..."
Yes, I'd rather believe in a guy who could raise the dead, walk on water, turn said water into wine and fill baskets with fish but couldn't talk a bunch of Italians in skirts from tacking him to a post.
religion is not science and sceince is not religion
intelegent design is not science it assumes that these animals magically apearred from now where
sceince is the quest for knowledge and understanding
religion is the surpression of knowledge and could if you want to see it a form of control
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
Powered by Pearl Jam
I dont think ive laughed so hard in a while.
"tacking him to a post" LOL
My point, Mr. Wise Ass, is that you don't know just like I don't know. I don't think creationism should be taught in public schools. I believe in an absolute separation of church and state. Being an atheist doesn't make you smarter. Too many atheists, especially on this board, have a over-inflated sense of intelligence and enlightenment. :roll: Get over yourself.
well said. I keep saying that atheists are equally fanatical and dogmatic about their beliefs as fundamental christians and moslems, and all you have to do is look at this board for confirmation of that.
sorry but you sound silly....
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
agreed...when I was a believer I always considered it very personal...not something to broadcast...mainly because there are so many different beliefs
It amazes me now on Facebook how many people will post stuff about thanking Jesus for mundane things or asking for prayers for their kids football games, etc.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
"Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" -- or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel -- "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised." In terms of the history of science and knowledge in general, this appears absurd and arrogant to me, and I am perpetually astonished that so many people still manage to live with such a medieval attitude." - Robert A Wilson
:roll: :roll:
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
The message is what is important, not who said it. Hell... last night my buddy quoted Rush Limbaugh and I agreed with the statement.
I'm certainly not trying to proselytize my agnostisicm... I just feel like I'm screaming "I don't know" in this argument and you're screaming "I know" and we're debating who is right. We're all just robots, maybe my robot contains a little more mysticism than most.
Isn't Mr. Wilson referring to Religion, here?
Science has changed since Medieval times... Religion has not. Knowledge adjusts to new discoveries... Belief (dogma) does not. Science texts are updated... the Bible remains unchanged.
...
I do agree with you when you say you don't know... I know that is the truth. No one knows. Anyone who claims to know the truth about God's existance (or non-existance) is not speaking the truth. They may BELIEVE it with all of their heart... but, no matter how much emotion or passion you throw into belief... it still does not make it truth.
Hail, Hail!!!
No... my interpretation is that Wilson is saying that any belief or certitude about the universe/god/reality is delusional. It doesn't matter if it is theistic or atheistic. He goes on to point out that if you look at history, what we "knew" at one point in time is rarely the same at a latter point in time.
Model agnosticism seems to be the right term: no one model is 100% correct but no model is 100% incorrect either. Every model is in some sense true, some sense false, some sense meaningless, some true/false, some true/meaningless, some false/meaningless, and some true/false/meaningless.
I live in America. The people trying to fuck with me and my life and freedoms are Christians. Muslims don't have enough political clout here to cause me problems. If they ever get to that point, I'll give them even more shit than I give Christians. Promise.
I feel your pain man. That is some pretty inconsiderate shit... if someone was blasting my belief system (if I had one) I'd be pissed too. But to be clear... if you read my posts I usually write "fundamental Christians or Moslems" as an example. And I think, to most people, christianity is the religion that is most prevalent in their neck of the woods and the religion they take offense to because it is proselytized at home/school/church/whatever and they don't agree with it.
Also, in order to be "hipster" I think a prerequisite is that you have be a cynical atheist who trashes everyone elses beliefs, or in my case, strict adherence to non-belief in either direction.
Just curious... what specifically do christians do to "fuck with your life and freedoms?"
Hahahaha....yeah.....let me know how that works out for you.
blue laws that prevent me from buying booze when i want, genesis in classrooms that keeps the next generation at a serious disadvantage in the global economy, abstinence-only sex ed that doesn't work and thus is a drain on my society and tax dollars, lies about contraception that accomplish the same result, bans on porn, strip clubs, and prostitution, gay marriage bans in our constitutions that deprive my friends of rights i take for granted (like a nice, messy divorce), leaving bible tracts instead of tips when i wait on their tables in a restaurant, blocking critical medical research that could save the lives of many of my friends with horrible diseases, whining about people greeting them with "happy holidays" during december...
i can go on.
Couldn't hold both those one sentence thoughts in your head at the same time eh? Had to split them into 2 posts?
In the event Muslims ever gain the kind of numbers the Christian political movement has, check up on me. I'll be ranting at their bullshit too. But we both know it won't happen, so quit trying to dodge accountability for the bullshit of your fellows by pointing at Muslims and claiming they're worse. They may be, but I don't have to deal with them. I have to deal with you guys, and you're annoying enough.
Do you identify yourself with all Christians?
My guess... probably not.
Hail, Hail!!!
Rod Laver Arena - Nov 13, 2006
Adelaide Oval - Nov 17, 2009
Etihad Stadium - Nov 20, 2009
BDO Melbourne - Jan 24, 2014
New York - May 02 - 2016
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