Christian version of Darwin's Origin of Species

haffajappa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9zpf5c ... r_embedded

What if atheists published a 50 page introduction to the bible?
Why can't Christians let people have their beliefs?

Gern Blansten

wow....I can't fathom the lack of brain function required to believe that crap

gimmesometruth27

haffajappa wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9zpf5cT0M&feature=player_embedded

What if atheists published a 50 page introduction to the bible?
Why can't Christians let people have their beliefs?

they feel it is their duty to "save" people.

man kirk cameron is such a douche.

i like how it said "due to the number of atheists not being cordial in their responses, all comments have been disabled." lol, they can present their side of things but refuse to allow criticism of their message....how typical...what a joke...

haffajappa

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9zpf5cT0M&feature=player_embedded

What if atheists published a 50 page introduction to the bible?
Why can't Christians let people have their beliefs?

they feel it is their duty to "save" people.

man kirk cameron is such a douche.

i like how it said "due to the number of atheists not being cordial in their responses, all comments have been disabled." lol, they can present their side of things but refuse to allow criticism of their message....how typical...what a joke...

that it is.
Can you actually do that to written work, or did any copyright laws exist when Darwin published his works? Certainly anything in modern times you wouldn't be able to legally publish a person's work in an instance such as this without having permissions and copyrights?

tvismyfriend

I totally agree with him that people should hear both sides of the issue. Although, I've got a feeling they wouldn't appreciate it if people went to churches and started handing out copies of the original Origin of Species.

Songburst

As much of a whacked out idea it is to add a religious preface to the Origin of Species, it's totally OK to present this garbage to young adults who for the most part have the capacity to make a semi-informed decision for themselves. My problem is with people or groups like this who force religion on their young children who know no better than to trust that what adults tell them is true.

I only wish that I could live long enough to see the obsolesence of religion. Not that I think that people will treat each other any better but all the dogmatic brainwashing has got to go. People like Kirk Cameron really are scary. I can't help but wonder what his agenda really is. What benefit is it to peddle fundamentalist Christian beliefs to people?

Prince Of Dorkness

tvismyfriend wrote:

I totally agree with him that people should hear both sides of the issue. Although, I've got a feeling they wouldn't appreciate it if people went to churches and started handing out copies of the original Origin of Species.

OK, here's both sides of the issue...

1) Evolution is scientific fact. It's real. No two ways about it. It's not a "theory" and it's not a "side of the issue."

2) Creationism, "Intelligent design" and Adam & Eve is horse shit. It's also not a "theory," it's just made up horse shit.

The only reason there is an "issue" is because some people are too scared to admit that God didn't make the rivers, the lakes or, for that matter, anything.

South of Seattle

So who's gonna post a video response of Zeitgeist?

catefrances

tvismyfriend wrote:

I totally agree with him that people should hear both sides of the issue. Although, I've got a feeling they wouldn't appreciate it if people went to churches and started handing out copies of the original Origin of Species.

but both sides already know the other side. some may choose to totally ignore it cause it offends their sensibilities. but nonetheless they are aware that 'the other side' exists.

Gern Blansten

Jasunmark wrote:

tvismyfriend wrote:

I totally agree with him that people should hear both sides of the issue. Although, I've got a feeling they wouldn't appreciate it if people went to churches and started handing out copies of the original Origin of Species.

OK, here's both sides of the issue...

1) Evolution is scientific fact. It's real. No two ways about it. It's not a "theory" and it's not a "side of the issue."

2) Creationism, "Intelligent design" and Adam & Eve is horse shit. It's also not a "theory," it's just made up horse shit.

The only reason there is an "issue" is because some people are too scared to admit that God didn't make the rivers, the lakes or, for that matter, anything.

yeah that's pretty much it

haffajappa

Jasunmark wrote:

The only reason there is an "issue" is because some people are too scared to admit that God didn't make the rivers, the lakes or, for that matter, anything.

I've often wondered - and in regards to the 61% of university professors being atheists or whatever - how much of my lecture hall or class are christians, and how they feel about being taught about things that go against the bible in classes like archaeology or geography or any other subject that might teach the age of the earth and the civilizations and species before us...

Gern Blansten

yeah my first question would be "why do 61% of professors reject religion?"

I went to college convinced to either strenghten my religious beliefs or reject them....after a few courses in Philosophy, Anthropology and especially Astronomy I was able to reject them completely.

Astronomy is like religion repellant...mind blowing shit

he still stands

Gern Blansten wrote:

Astronomy is like religion repellant...mind blowing shit

I really got into astronomy a few years ago and, paradoxically, it gave me MORE evidence for the existence of "god." But yes, a thorough knowledge of astronomy or any other hard science sort of throws mud in the face of western religion.

Gern Blansten

he still stands wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

Astronomy is like religion repellant...mind blowing shit

I really got into astronomy a few years ago and, paradoxically, it gave me MORE evidence for the existence of "god." But yes, a thorough knowledge of astronomy or any other hard science sort of throws mud in the face of western religion.

please share this evidence as you are the only one that apparently holds it

VINNY GOOMBA

he still stands wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

Astronomy is like religion repellant...mind blowing shit

I really got into astronomy a few years ago and, paradoxically, it gave me MORE evidence for the existence of "god."

I'm with ya. I believe it simply broadens the definition of GOD to be more like "The Force" that gets mentioned in Star Wars, rather than an old dude with a beard (but hey, why not? Maybe He / She / It takes on different forms to different people?). I think there is probably greater dispute over what to call our creator than the fact that we were all created by something, and that we all really come from the same place. It's like the concept of "infinity." You know it exists, but it just blows your mind to think about it.

Cosmo

One possible outcome could be... Science leads Mankind to the existance of God, not religion.
Maybe God wants us to use the fruit of the tree of knowledge to find Him.
...
P.S. 'Intelligent Design' is to Science... as Astrology is to Astronomy.
If 'Intelligent Design' is accepted as Science, so should Astrology.

he still stands

My evidence? Just a few:

A detailed understanding of the big bang theory shows us that it only provides information after the "bang" and before it scientists call it a "singularity" or infinitive gravity, density, and heat. This "singularity" just appeared with no scientific explanation and it seems to have been created. We still have no idea how everything came into being.

What we see as "reality" is just one of many realities and possibly infinite dimensions of space and time. Not only are we infinitely small, we are infinitely big, and have infinitely possible other lives existing simulataneously in other universes. Really try to grasp this and then try to take yourself seriously.

I have seen what I call the "cosmic vibration" and have witnessed at least one or two alternate universes. I absolutely trust my senses, and while I was "hallucinating," these experiences were witnessed by my friends exactly as I remember them. We all came away from the first experience thinking that -somehow- was pretty good evidence for the existence of a "god."

Spend a day looking at those deep field view pictures of space. Look at the beauty of everything. In fact, spend a day outside in the woods just walking and talking with a loved one. Get lost in the woods. Look at the beauty of everything.

Now, I probably have more evidence to support god NOT existing, but that would be a drag to think about all day. What we think we become.

Gern Blansten

he still stands wrote:

I probably have more evidence to support god NOT existing

exactly....I don't think it's a "drag" to dismiss the idea that tooth fairies and invisible people exist

To me true beauty is the belief that they do not

he still stands

Gern Blansten wrote:

he still stands wrote:

I probably have more evidence to support god NOT existing

exactly....I don't think it's a "drag" to dismiss the idea that tooth fairies and invisible people exist

To me true beauty is the belief that they do not

Tooth fairies? Might that be a bit of a hyperbole?

Why do you "believe" that god doesn't exist? Do you have proof? If not, isn't that "belief" just as ignorant as a religious person's "faith" that god does exist? If not, why?

I believe in everything, nothing is sacred
I believe in nothing, everything is sacred

Gern Blansten

he still stands wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

he still stands wrote:

I probably have more evidence to support god NOT existing

exactly....I don't think it's a "drag" to dismiss the idea that tooth fairies and invisible people exist

To me true beauty is the belief that they do not

Tooth fairies? Might that be a bit of a hyperbole?

Why do you "believe" that god doesn't exist? Do you have proof? If not, isn't that "belief" just as ignorant as a religious person's "faith" that god does exist? If not, why?

I believe in everything, nothing is sacred
I believe in nothing, everything is sacred

people originally believed that god's were responsible for thunder and lightening...for floods, rain, snow, etc.

We have pushed god back into the furthest corners of space....I can offer no proof that god does not exist because I can offer no proof that blue monkeys don't live beneath the ocean floor and exert mind control over human beings.

he still stands

Gern Blansten wrote:

people originally believed that god's were responsible for thunder and lightening...for floods, rain, snow, etc.

We have pushed god back into the furthest corners of space....I can offer no proof that god does not exist because I can offer no proof that blue monkeys don't live beneath the ocean floor and exert mind control over human beings.

It is obvious that you think the concept of "god(s)" is silly, asinine, and inconceivable. Maybe it is...

But it is also silly (and dogmatic) to strictly adhere to a belief for which there is no proof nor could there ever be proof, since you cannot prove something does not exist.

That is my only point; be careful about "believing" in things and then spending the rest of your life dismissing the other viewpoint. As I've said on here before - atheists tend to be equally dogmatic and fanatical as fundamentalist christians about their beliefs. Sometimes it is more honest to just say, "I don't know."

Random_Wookie

he still stands wrote:

But it is also silly (and dogmatic) to strictly adhere to a belief for which there is no proof nor could there ever be proof, since you cannot prove something does not exist.

It's up to you to prove that god exists, not for us to prove that god does not exists.

As for the big bang there are some holes in that theory in my view with relation to what caused the singularity. But this can also be applied to the existance of god, because how did god come into existance.

Back to that video and Intelligent Design has been proven wrong as far as I am concerned, all you need to do is take a look at the data that supports evolution. There without even knowing about evoulition you should be able to see a species natural progression into its current form.

soulsinging

he still stands wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

people originally believed that god's were responsible for thunder and lightening...for floods, rain, snow, etc.

We have pushed god back into the furthest corners of space....I can offer no proof that god does not exist because I can offer no proof that blue monkeys don't live beneath the ocean floor and exert mind control over human beings.

It is obvious that you think the concept of "god(s)" is silly, asinine, and inconceivable. Maybe it is...

But it is also silly (and dogmatic) to strictly adhere to a belief for which there is no proof nor could there ever be proof, since you cannot prove something does not exist.

That is my only point; be careful about "believing" in things and then spending the rest of your life dismissing the other viewpoint. As I've said on here before - atheists tend to be equally dogmatic and fanatical as fundamentalist christians about their beliefs. Sometimes it is more honest to just say, "I don't know."

Yet you claim to know, and then discount atheists claiming the same knowledge. You can't have it both ways. You are right that atheists cannot prove a negative, but that doesn't make their belief totally irrational. If you want to prove the existence of God, you have to provide the evidence. And you can't do that. The total lack of such evidence is a powerful argument in itself. As someone mentioned the tooth fairy, the fact that nobody has any evidence of a tooth fairy tips the scales a whole lot more towards the "no tooth fairy" end of things than the existence of a tooth fairy. So the lack of any evidence on God points a lot more to atheism than religion. The reason atheists are "dogmatic" is becos you're trying to convince them without any evidence. If you handed an atheist a smoking gun piece of evidence for God, most of the ones I knew would accept it. But you don't have that, so you tell yourself they're just dogmatic and close-minded, when the real problem is that your argument holds no water. And it's a double standard to say that such atheists should then claim to "not know" while you claim such certainty of a less convincing prospect.

he still stands

Random_Wookie wrote:

he still stands wrote:

But it is also silly (and dogmatic) to strictly adhere to a belief for which there is no proof nor could there ever be proof, since you cannot prove something does not exist.

It's up to you to prove that god exists, not for us to prove that god does not exists.

As for the big bang there are some holes in that theory in my view with relation to what caused the singularity. But this can also be applied to the existance of god, because how did god come into existance.

Back to that video and Intelligent Design has been proven wrong as far as I am concerned, all you need to do is take a look at the data that supports evolution. There without even knowing about evoulition you should be able to see a species natural progression into its current form.

I can't prove god exists (i.e. I haven't met god and gotten the dna sample)... but then again I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sheesh........ Beliefs are the death of intelligence. If I don't believe in non-theism then I must be a theist... if I don't believe in capitalism then I must be a communist... if I don't believe everything the government tells me then I must be a conspiracy theorist.

Prove god exists? Shit, sometimes I have a hard time proving that I exist!

Random_Wookie

he still stands wrote:

but then again I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry missunderstood your previous couple of posts

he still stands wrote:

but then again I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Beliefs are the death of intelligence. If I don't believe in non-theism then I must be a theist... if I don't believe in capitalism then I must be a communist... if I don't believe everything the government tells me then I must be a conspiracy theorist.

Only if i was force to choose would I call my self an atheist, I dont belive anything my governmet tells me without doing some research first.

soulsinging wrote:

The reason atheists are "dogmatic" is becos you're trying to convince them without any evidence. If you handed an atheist a smoking gun piece of evidence for God, most of the ones I knew would accept it.

but if an atheist was to prove that god(s) did not exists, would religous people be able to accept that or would we get a return to the days of burning people for being heritcs,witches etc?

he still stands

but if an atheist was to prove that god(s) did not exists, would religous people be able to accept that or would we get a return to the days of burning people for being heritcs,witches etc?

well like I've said a couple dozen times in this thread, logically, you cannot prove that anything does not exist, including god.

It may be said that "a leprechaun does not exist in my present location in space and time (in this room at this moment)" but one cannot prove that leprechauns do not exist in all other locations of space and time, which are almost infinite. Same goes with god.

soulsinging

he still stands wrote:

but if an atheist was to prove that god(s) did not exists, would religous people be able to accept that or would we get a return to the days of burning people for being heritcs,witches etc?

well like I've said a couple dozen times in this thread, logically, you cannot prove that anything does not exist, including god.

It may be said that "a leprechaun does not exist in my present location in space and time (in this room at this moment)" but one cannot prove that leprechauns do not exist in all other locations of space and time, which are almost infinite. Same goes with god.

that sounds like academia/pothead philosophy. you could easily take that one further and say you don't know if a leprechaun does not exist in your present location... maybe you can't see one, but how do you know they don't exist right now in your room in a form you don't recognize? at that point, you jump to the most absurd and irrelevant arguments.

you don't KNOW that if you step out the window you will fall. and you can't prove the negative that human beings can't fly. but you and i both know you won't step out of a 30 story window because for all your academic posturing, you DO know exactly what will happen because you know that nobody on this earth has ever done something like that and not fallen. similarly, nobody on this planet has ever seen or captured a leprechaun, or seen and spoken to god (outside the delusional). so it's a pretty safe bet to say 'there are no leprechauns in this world' and 'there is no god in this world.' if you want to get into your psych-crap mumbo jumob, sure it's not 100% certain, nothing is. but i'd say it's just as sound an argument as saying you can't fly out your window... i can't prove that you can't fly out your window, but anyone with half a brain can look at the world and history and everything we know about both and pretty readily say... no, you can't.

decides2dream

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

he still stands wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

Astronomy is like religion repellant...mind blowing shit

I really got into astronomy a few years ago and, paradoxically, it gave me MORE evidence for the existence of "god."

I'm with ya. I believe it simply broadens the definition of GOD to be more like "The Force" that gets mentioned in Star Wars, rather than an old dude with a beard (but hey, why not? Maybe He / She / It takes on different forms to different people?). I think there is probably greater dispute over what to call our creator than the fact that we were all created by something, and that we all really come from the same place. It's like the concept of "infinity." You know it exists, but it just blows your mind to think about it.

that truly made me laugh!


however, i do truly *get* your analogy. i think if were to believe in 'god' - and i am still on the fence about it, this whole 'life force' idea is more akin to my line of thinking.

as to christians 'dealing with' the inconsistencies of their faith against science....i think a LOT of them do NOT follow a strict, literal adherence to the bible in regards to timelines, age of the planet, etc. i know my own mother, quite a religious catholic, has never seemingly taken issue with any of being taught about evolution, the existence of dinosaurs, etc. i think perhaps that christians may well realize that even within their beliefs of god/jesus, it is certainly possible to believe in evolution as well. that perhaps the bible is meant as a guide, more illustrative, than cold, hard facts. perhaps they believe it was beyond understanding to delve into it"all" when the bible first came about, and that it was meant to discover the full truth, in time, with great human knowledge and understanding. i do believe intelligence and faith can coexist, as can religious belief and scientific belief.

soulsinging

decides2dream wrote:

as to christians 'dealing with' the inconsistencies of their faith against science....i think a LOT of them do NOT follow a strict, literal adherence to the bible in regards to timelines, age of the planet, etc. i know my own mother, quite a religious catholic, has never seemingly taken issue with any of being taught about evolution, the existence of dinosaurs, etc. i think perhaps that christians may well realize that even within their beliefs of god/jesus, it is certainly possible to believe in evolution as well. that perhaps the bible is meant as a guide, more illustrative, than cold, hard facts. perhaps they believe it was beyond understanding to delve into it"all" when the bible first came about, and that it was meant to discover the full truth, in time, with great human knowledge and understanding. i do believe intelligence and faith can coexist, as can religious belief and scientific belief.

hell, the pope came right out and said there's nothing wrong with teaching evolution and it's probably very accurate. there was also a vatican astronomer quoted as saying he's almost certain there is other life out there in the universe. odd that that kind of embrace of science is coming from historically the most traditional and tyrannical sect!

the creationism thing is a much smaller segment of the population than it seems, i believe. the problem is, it's a very large minority and they're very vocal and well organized and insular. it makes them almost impervious to any outside ideas to even get in. that's why it's such a force in american politics... it's a goldmine bedrock voting base that you know you can easily manipulate and guarantee at the polls.

Random_Wookie

he still stands wrote:

but if an atheist was to prove that god(s) did not exists, would religous people be able to accept that or would we get a return to the days of burning people for being heritcs,witches etc?

well like I've said a couple dozen times in this thread, logically, you cannot prove that anything does not exist, including god.

It may be said that "a leprechaun does not exist in my present location in space and time (in this room at this moment)" but one cannot prove that leprechauns do not exist in all other locations of space and time, which are almost infinite. Same goes with god.

true but does religion not state that god created the universe? if that is the case then god would have to had to existed at some point for him to create the universe (perhaps god was responsible for the big bang). Otherwise religion would be based on a falsehood and that would then bring that whole religion into question. This would be the same for any scientific theory if it was disproven then it would be ignored.

WaveCameCrashin

All the legitimate alternatives should be presented in the classroom. For a professor to say you can't mention or discuss intelligent design is fascism. Im not saying turn to Christianity, but it should be discussed,and also that there are more believers than non believers.

I believe in creative design and I believe in evolution,but I think it was over seen by a Higher Power. The problem I have with Science is that it doesn't advance the human condition in any moralistic way,and jesus did.If everybody Followed his teachings we would have Peace On Earth. Would we not ? I think everyone would love one another and we'd almost be an idllic civilization.

Im not 100% sure that Jesus God,but I choose to believe that because the man was so extraordinary in what he did in his 33 yrs on earth, an it still resonates to this day.

I know I'll get branded and get looked down upon for being a christian on here bcos that's what most atheist do.