The ONLY thing I don't love about BS....

Backspacer_Backer

slightofjeff wrote:

yeah, ummm, i never said any of these songs were religious there sport. I said there were religious references within the songs, which is 100% true.

This argument could go on forever. I guess it depends on what you mean by "religious references." If you just think the word "sin" and the word "soul" are religious references -- as opposed to spiritual references -- then I don't know what to tell you. If you don't understand how a religious reference can be used to convey a secular idea -- a la Soundgarden's "Jesus Christ Pose" -- then I don't know what to tell you.

I just don't agree with your entire premise. And I also wonder, given that there are many different ways to interpret lyrics, why you would willingly choose an interpretation that pisses you off.

okay, first, it's not an "argument", i stated a fact, that there are religious references within the songs. there's no need for you to be bothered by it, but there's no denying it. second, the words "sin" and "soul", by themselves, are not religious references per se. "Original Sin" and "Soul that has been Saved" are, in fact, references to religion. Original Sin is a direct Christian reference from the book of Genesis. Again, it's not that big of a deal, but I am not sure why some of you are arguing so persistently that these aren't religious references. It doesn't mean Ed is a Christian, I get that.

at no point have these references "pissed me off", nor has this discussion. it's those of you "arguing" your side who seem to be worked up.

slightofjeff

csickels wrote:

okay, first, it's not an "argument", i stated a fact, that there are religious references within the songs. there's no need for you to be bothered by it, but there's no denying it. second, the words "sin" and "soul", by themselves, are not religious references per se. "Original Sin" and "Soul that has been Saved" are, in fact, references to religion. Original Sin is a direct Christian reference from the book of Genesis. Again, it's not that big of a deal, but I am not sure why some of you are arguing so persistently that these aren't religious references. It doesn't mean Ed is a Christian, I get that.

at no point have these references "pissed me off", nor has this discussion. it's those of you "arguing" your side who seem to be worked up.

Well, you did start the thread. Something must have prompted you to do that. Secondly, the Bible is just a book. There isn't a whole hell of a lot of differences between making reference to the Bible and making a reference to, Daniel Quinn's Ishmael.

Thirdly, and this is the point you continually seem to want to ignore, you can use a religious reference to make a secular point. Such as the "original sin" line from Johnny Guitar. I suppose it's a "religious reference" (I guess), but it is used in a secular way. He's saying the lady is a temptress. That's all. I suppose he could have said "the kind of woman responsible for original sin, which is a reference to the first book of the Bible, which is a book I don't believe in but the fable kind of fits here so bear with me."

Except I don't think Ed can hold his breath that long.

The fourth thing, and another point you keep conviently ignoring, is that there is a difference between spirituality and religion. There are atheists, I'm sure, who believe they have a soul, and there are countless ways to save it. Many people, religious and non-religious alike, seem to believe that if they live th right kind of life, their soul has been redeemed. In the case of Amongst the Waves, it is a power of love -- human, girl-on-guy love, that does the redeeming.


PS -- I don't know if you remember this, but 10 pages ago you accused Pearl Jam of producing "Christian Rock." That could explain why you're getting some of the heated responses you're getting, because that statement is kind of ridiculous.

Backspacer_Backer

slightofjeff wrote:

csickels wrote:

okay, first, it's not an "argument", i stated a fact, that there are religious references within the songs. there's no need for you to be bothered by it, but there's no denying it. second, the words "sin" and "soul", by themselves, are not religious references per se. "Original Sin" and "Soul that has been Saved" are, in fact, references to religion. Original Sin is a direct Christian reference from the book of Genesis. Again, it's not that big of a deal, but I am not sure why some of you are arguing so persistently that these aren't religious references. It doesn't mean Ed is a Christian, I get that.

at no point have these references "pissed me off", nor has this discussion. it's those of you "arguing" your side who seem to be worked up.

Well, you did start the thread. Something must have prompted you to do that. Secondly, the Bible is just a book. There isn't a whole hell of a lot of differences between making reference to the Bible and making a reference to, Daniel Quinn's Ishmael.

Thirdly, and this is the point you continually seem to want to ignore, you can use a religious reference to make a secular point. Such as the "original sin" line from Johnny Guitar. I suppose it's a "religious reference" (I guess), but it is used in a secular way. He's saying the lady is a temptress. That's all. I suppose he could have said "the kind of woman responsible for original sin, which is a reference to the first book of the Bible, which is a book I don't believe in but the fable kind of fits here so bear with me."

Except I don't think Ed can hold his breath that long.

The fourth thing, and another point you keep conviently ignoring, is that there is a difference between spirituality and religion. There are atheists, I'm sure, who believe they have a soul, and there are countless ways to save it. Many people, religious and non-religious alike, seem to believe that if they live th right kind of life, their soul has been redeemed. In the case of Amongst the Waves, it is a power of love -- human, girl-on-guy love, that does the redeeming.

i'm not ignoring any points, i'm just not arguing that. Some of you just like to debate, I don't know, out of boredom or something. Let's put this one to bed. I'm not ignoring the spirituality vs. religion point, I get it completely. i consider myself and anti-religion spiritual person. i'm not sure why this is such a hot topic on here, i think some of you protest too much. i just interpreted the lyrics as more directly religious than in the past. perhaps i'm wrong. that would be OK, not the first or last time.

Wilds

csickels wrote:

Not looking to complain or criticize, I'm just curious if this bothers anybody else. I love the album, have listened to it nonstop since Friday, and the more I listen, the more I like the ENTIRE record from start to finish.

But as that process goes on, and i familiarize myself with the lyrics, Eddie's apparent new willingness to include religious (even Christian) messages in the music is a turn off to me. I don't mind anybody's religion, I just don't like it in my rock music. That's called Christian rock, and it's something I don't get into. I am glad that Ed is happy with his current life situation, and if that includes being born again or just more comfortable writing about his faith, great for him. For me as a listener, that's the one thing I would change about Backspacer. Too many soul saving and prayer references for my taste.

My thoughts are the OP went overboard just kind of shooting the shit/hearing himself type/talk. People rang in and he backed off. Then people continue to badger this guy. So he feels he must defend.

He has changed his tune from the original post, and now he is defending a position he never fully embraced.

Read through this, he bowed out gracefully at one point only to be dragged back in.

Here is the compromise.

Eddie has always used spiritual overtones in his music. He is not christian, or what you would call traditionally religious. This is no big deal, even the OP has said this a few times in this thread.

I think after the many clarifications of intent and meaning of those spiritual phrases the OP will probably be less concerned than he was when this thread started.

slightofjeff

csickels wrote:

i'm not ignoring any points, i'm just not arguing that. Some of you just like to debate, I don't know, out of boredom or something. Let's put this one to bed. I'm not ignoring the spirituality vs. religion point, I get it completely. i consider myself and anti-religion spiritual person. i'm not sure why this is such a hot topic on here, i think some of you protest too much. i just interpreted the lyrics as more directly religious than in the past. perhaps i'm wrong. that would be OK, not the first or last time.

Fair enough. Seemed a weird topic is all. I'm still not completely buying that you started a thread calling Backspacer "Christian rock" and expected no responses at all.

But whatever.

CitizenRick

csickels wrote:

Not looking to complain or criticize, I'm just curious if this bothers anybody else. I love the album, have listened to it nonstop since Friday, and the more I listen, the more I like the ENTIRE record from start to finish.

But as that process goes on, and i familiarize myself with the lyrics, Eddie's apparent new willingness to include religious (even Christian) messages in the music is a turn off to me. I don't mind anybody's religion, I just don't like it in my rock music. That's called Christian rock, and it's something I don't get into. I am glad that Ed is happy with his current life situation, and if that includes being born again or just more comfortable writing about his faith, great for him. For me as a listener, that's the one thing I would change about Backspacer. Too many soul saving and prayer references for my taste.

Uhh...What? Dude WTF are you talking about?

Backspacer_Backer

Wilds wrote:

csickels wrote:

Not looking to complain or criticize, I'm just curious if this bothers anybody else. I love the album, have listened to it nonstop since Friday, and the more I listen, the more I like the ENTIRE record from start to finish.

But as that process goes on, and i familiarize myself with the lyrics, Eddie's apparent new willingness to include religious (even Christian) messages in the music is a turn off to me. I don't mind anybody's religion, I just don't like it in my rock music. That's called Christian rock, and it's something I don't get into. I am glad that Ed is happy with his current life situation, and if that includes being born again or just more comfortable writing about his faith, great for him. For me as a listener, that's the one thing I would change about Backspacer. Too many soul saving and prayer references for my taste.

My thoughts are the OP went overboard just kind of shooting the shit/hearing himself type/talk. People rang in and he backed off. Then people continue to badger this guy. So he feels he must defend.

He has changed his tune from the original post, and now he is defending a position he never fully embraced.

Read through this, he bowed out gracefully at one point only to be dragged back in.

Here is the compromise.

Eddie has always used spiritual overtones in his music. He is not christian, or what you would call traditionally religious. This is no big deal, even the OP has said this a few times in this thread.

I think after the many clarifications of intent and meaning of those spiritual phrases the OP will probably be less concerned than he was when this thread started.

there's probably some truth to this, ie me trying to get out and getting sucked back in. that whole retard trying to win an internet argument thing, i'm a sucker for it.

anyway, if one takes a look at the thread title, that tells the main idea of my post. love the record. not accusing Ed (GOD forbid) of being Christian. just struck me more than in past albums. maybe not even the references themselves, perhaps the way I interpreted the tone.

Backspacer_Backer

slightofjeff wrote:

csickels wrote:

i'm not ignoring any points, i'm just not arguing that. Some of you just like to debate, I don't know, out of boredom or something. Let's put this one to bed. I'm not ignoring the spirituality vs. religion point, I get it completely. i consider myself and anti-religion spiritual person. i'm not sure why this is such a hot topic on here, i think some of you protest too much. i just interpreted the lyrics as more directly religious than in the past. perhaps i'm wrong. that would be OK, not the first or last time.

Fair enough. Seemed a weird topic is all. I'm still not completely buying that you started a thread calling Backspacer "Christian rock" and expected no responses at all.

But whatever.

yeah, in hindsight, probably went a little strong on that. oh well. thank God for Pearl Jam.

blondieblue227

csickels wrote:

thank God for Pearl Jam.

Amen!

________________________

I think we have to be flexible. Any belief system that is inflexible, closed off to other belief systems, is profoundly unhealthy. I also think that if you look at life as a long line of evolutionary changes that started billions of years ago, from little things crawling in the mud, and the you realize where we’ve got to now, that is a remarkable set of circumstances. There is more magic in that, for me, than someone creating the planet in six days and taking a day off. When you realize how long humanity has taken to get to this point, it makes you respect another person’s life in a deeper and broader sense. I wouldn’t’ think of killing anybody because their lineage goes back to the primordial seas, not because there’s some eye in the sky, looking out for how many commandments you’re going to break.

- Eddie Vedder thoughts on religion/spirituality etc.

mrmojorisinca

csickels wrote:

mrmojorisinca wrote:

dude who started this message...Have you every heard the word Spiritual?

Because you can be without being religious in anyway..

just curious..

yeah, in fact i used the word if you read my posts. no worries, as has been pointed out, SOME of the lyrics are overtly religious (not just spiritual) like Original Sin, etc.

I read your original post..and some pf your others between page 1 and what ever number this thread is on.

and well I'd admit a lot of lyrics are spiritual and some might even reference a god or be religious..
but to try and say they are moving to Christian Rock is well just crazy.
and I think that what spawned this long long thread..

but it got everyone talking and think that what Ed and the boys would want

sharktroubles

Eddie Veddar is a feeling/thinking man
he sees this world and himself very clearly
Things bug him, frustrate him, sadden him, challenge him
they also make him happy, encouraged, invigorated, re-vitalized
This is a man who is both burdened and liberated simultaneuosly
by what he sees and feels - by paying attention to his experiences
Writing, music and art in general, are a vital gift to him in his eyes
and he utilizes these forms of higher consciousness as relief, release
and as a service to his fellow human beings and he is fuckin' grateful
for this awesome vehicle of expression...it keeps him here
His relationship with words, music, people and life
are stated in the art he presents to us in a way that
comes directly from his heart
The heart in all of us knows no bullshit; it is genuine and sincere with
every miraculous life-giving palpitation in both one's chest and mind
Mr. Veddar knows this and it is a principle that he has
made a consciously active part of him
We can hear this in his messages in the form
of musical lyrics and melodies
As a writer, Ed knows that he is merely a conduit for ideas
and his ego is humbled by that fact, allowing him to convey
them in as un-jaded a way as possible
It is his hope (to me anyway) that those of us
who choose to listen
Will be awakened to our own personal power and to
acknowledge the paradox and shear beauty within both ourselves
and the external, physical world that we currently inhabit
That last sentiment is God, The Great Spirit, Buddha, Jah, Allah, The Force
The Universe - assign whatever title one wants to it
there is an omnipotent "Power" at work even an atheist cannot deny
and we all encapsulate it and live within its flow
Eddie Veddar is an existentialist and a philosopher and
he informs us that we all are as well
Listen and be thankful for who you are and what you have