The ONLY thing I don't love about BS....

South of Seattle

csickels wrote:

South of Seattle wrote:

csickels wrote:

ok, i'll go song by song on the religious references:

Gonna see my friend: "Gonna take me an Astral Plane"

The Fixer: "I'll say your prayers. I'll take your side. I'll find us a way to make light"

Johnny Guitar: references the original sin "Foriginal sin". Clearly a Christian reference.

Just Breathe: "Hold me till I die, I'll meet you on the other side"

ATW: "I can feel like I have a soul that has been saved" Soul saving? seriously, this is not a gray area

Speed of Sound: "And yet I’m still holding tight to this dream of distant light" this is debateable, but worth considering

like i said, i love this album, and yes, i did like marker in the sand. tell me which ones you think are reaching - other than the Speed of Sound one. Every other one is clearly a religious reference.

I'd say a few of those are reaching.

Did you like Marker in the Sand from the last album?

Just Breathe and Johnny Guitar.

Just Breathe has a death/moody/relationship vibe. The other side makes sense. He's not gonna right a lyric "Hold me till I die, I'll meet you in the dirt"

And the Johnny Guitar is about what the Pimp Johnny Guitar, most people would think that having many women/being adulterous is a Sin. Nothing more than that really.

If he was writing these songs as an Eddie Vedder Autobiography then I'd agree with you . . . maybe.

JonnyPistachio

ohm y gosh...what's this...ouch...there's monkeys flying outta my butt, and Pearl Jam is a christian rock band. damn, I knew this day would come. :P

bootlegger10

csickels wrote:

having the soul isn't Christian exclusively, or even religious. Having your soul SAVED is a religious or faith based ideal. If not for religion or faith, what would your soul need to be saved FROM?

Well, in your first sentence you say that a soul is not religious, so in turn then you must admit that having it saved must also not necessarily be religious. You can save my spot in line. A spot in line is not religious, just like you said a soul isn't necessarily religious.

What if Ed is talking about a soul that was destined for loneliness, anger, and unhappiness. Now he's happy and he feels like his soul has been saved. Also, where do you get that anyone other than a girl saved his soul? The type of saving you are referencing is by a higher power. Amongst the Waves sounds like a girl restoring his soul.

CranMalReign

csickels wrote:

ok, i'll go song by song on the religious references:

Killer. Let's rock!

csickels wrote:

Gonna see my friend: "Gonna take me an Astral Plane"

This song is about, well, drugs. Sure, religion could be a drug, but I think that Astral Plane is more along the lines of chemical highs.

csickels wrote:

The Fixer: "I'll say your prayers. I'll take your side. I'll find us a way to make light"

Prayers are obviously religious in nature. But this song is about doing anything and everything to fix something perceived to be broken. I think this is more along the lines of "I'll do anything it takes".

csickels wrote:

Johnny Guitar: references the original sin "Foriginal sin". Clearly a Christian reference.

Obvious reference to Genesis from the Bible, sure. The context of the song however is merely that this chick can lure a guy into doing whatever she wants. He's using religious analogy to exemplify a lusty individual. It's actually a common literary technique to reference well-known works to make analogies. Please see "Satan's Bed". I don't think Ed is actually referring to the fallen angel.

csickels wrote:

Just Breathe: "Hold me till I die, I'll meet you on the other side"

Why is referring to the hope of reuniting in some form of afterlife automatically Christian/born again? It's a common theme in almost any religion. It's a source of hope. They have a song *called* "Other Side" for Christ's sake (no, I'm not Christian or born-again).

csickels wrote:

ATW: "I can feel like I have a soul that has been saved" Soul saving? seriously, this is not a gray area

As someone already mentioned, "soul" is not necessarily religious, although saving typically is. Yes, religious reference, but another common phrase is writing that, to me at least, does not indicate any particular religious leaning of the writer.

csickels wrote:

Speed of Sound: "And yet I’m still holding tight to this dream of distant light" this is debateable, but worth considering

Really? Light has so many meanings that this isn't even debatable.

Backspacer_Backer

bootlegger10 wrote:

csickels wrote:

having the soul isn't Christian exclusively, or even religious. Having your soul SAVED is a religious or faith based ideal. If not for religion or faith, what would your soul need to be saved FROM?

Well, in your first sentence you say that a soul is not religious, so in turn then you must admit that having it saved must also not necessarily be religious. You can save my spot in line. A spot in line is not religious, just like you said a soul isn't necessarily religious.

What if Ed is talking about a soul that was destined for loneliness, anger, and unhappiness. Now he's happy and he feels like his soul has been saved. Also, where do you get that anyone other than a girl saved his soul? The type of saving you are referencing is by a higher power. Amongst the Waves sounds like a girl restoring his soul.

again, i'll ask you, if not for religion, what does a soul need to be saved from? i believe that human beings may have a spirit (soul), but that doesn't mean that they requiring SAVING. soul saving is something that religious brainwashers cooked up to herd the sheep. this is pretty simply a religious lyric.

Yellow Ledbelly

Irregardless of anyone's religious views I didn't realize that being anti-christianity earned someone some kind of medal of honor.
And, no, I don't find anything particularly religious about any of the lyrics....aside from maybe the reference to the other side, but the afterlife is something that has been referenced in his lyrics on several occasions.

CranMalReign

csickels wrote:

again, i'll ask you, if not for religion, what does a soul need to be saved from? i believe that human beings may have a spirit (soul), but that doesn't mean that they requiring SAVING. soul saving is something that religious brainwashers cooked up to herd the sheep. this is pretty simply a religious lyric.

Sure, sure, I'm going to grant you that "soul that has been saved" is a phrase that would not exist in our language if not for religion. Happy?

Now on to the actual context of the lyrics:

He feels as though he has a soul that has been saved. It's a way of describing the feeling of relief, of redemption, of feeling like his worries have been lifted off of him and he can breathe. Like other references, he simply uses a well known (arguably overused) concept of "soul saving" to provide a simile with his overall ellation.

Riot_Mac

You are really stretching here. I find it funny. You do know that Ed doesn't believe in god.

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Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

Irregardless of anyone's religious views I didn't realize that being anti-christianity earned someone some kind of medal of honor.
And, no, I don't find anything particularly religious about any of the lyrics....aside from maybe the reference to the other side, but the afterlife is something that has been referenced in his lyrics on several occasions.

who said anything about a medal of honor? i like my music better if it doesn't make me feel like i'm in church, that's all.

Backspacer_Backer

Riot_Mac wrote:

You are really stretching here. I find it funny. You do know that Ed doesn't believe in god.

how do you know? save the Garafolo article. I realize he DIDN'T. There's know way for either of us to know if he DOESN"T. Unless you are his wife or something.

bootlegger10

csickels wrote:

bootlegger10 wrote:

csickels wrote:

ok, i'll go song by song on the religious references:

Gonna see my friend: "Gonna take me an Astral Plane"

The Fixer: "I'll say your prayers. I'll take your side. I'll find us a way to make light"

Johnny Guitar: references the original sin "Foriginal sin". Clearly a Christian reference.

Just Breathe: "Hold me till I die, I'll meet you on the other side"

ATW: "I can feel like I have a soul that has been saved" Soul saving? seriously, this is not a gray area

Speed of Sound: "And yet I’m still holding tight to this dream of distant light" this is debateable, but worth considering

What frame of mind are you in where you can't handle these lyrics? What would be atheist lyrics? How depressing those most be.

it's not about atheism. i like all of pearl jam's music (as do, i assume, you.) The vast majority have no religious references.

90% of PJ's music is full of social and political b.s. I still enjoy it all. I don't necessarily like the speeches at the concerts. Why do a couple songs with questionable religious references throw you off like this? Is tolerance a word liberals preach but never use?

Backspacer_Backer

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

Irregardless of anyone's religious views I didn't realize that being anti-christianity earned someone some kind of medal of honor.
And, no, I don't find anything particularly religious about any of the lyrics....aside from maybe the reference to the other side, but the afterlife is something that has been referenced in his lyrics on several occasions.

Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

cobber44

Let him write what he wants, a lot of people didn't like his political lyrics but its his song his feelings. So if its religious so what.

Diggy381

csickels wrote:

ok, i'll go song by song on the religious references:

Gonna see my friend: "Gonna take me an Astral Plane"

The Fixer: "I'll say your prayers. I'll take your side. I'll find us a way to make light"

Johnny Guitar: references the original sin "Foriginal sin". Clearly a Christian reference.

Just Breathe: "Hold me till I die, I'll meet you on the other side"

ATW: "I can feel like I have a soul that has been saved" Soul saving? seriously, this is not a gray area

Speed of Sound: "And yet I’m still holding tight to this dream of distant light" this is debateable, but worth considering

I think pretty much all of these are reaching in respects to being very "Christian" lyrics or sentiments. This is definitely not the first time taht Ed has referenced a life beyond this one. . . such notions certainly don't make this a christian rock album.

BinFrog

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

Irregardless of anyone's religious views I didn't realize that being anti-christianity earned someone some kind of medal of honor.
And, no, I don't find anything particularly religious about any of the lyrics....aside from maybe the reference to the other side, but the afterlife is something that has been referenced in his lyrics on several occasions.

(Pet peeve, sorry: Irregardless is not a word)

JordyWordy

Do references to death and spirituality equate to Religion?

Not in my book they don't. these songs are about living life, not "Religion" in the organised, blinkered-vision sense. People believing in a faith is fine by me, i dont personally.

But i sure wouldnt consider any of the lines highlighted above to Religion. Its not like the Church has a copyright over spirituality or the "afterlife"/what happens after death. Lyrics about those things come from inside everyone, not from scripture or dogma.

Backspacer_Backer

BinFrog wrote:

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

Irregardless of anyone's religious views I didn't realize that being anti-christianity earned someone some kind of medal of honor.
And, no, I don't find anything particularly religious about any of the lyrics....aside from maybe the reference to the other side, but the afterlife is something that has been referenced in his lyrics on several occasions.

(Pet peeve, sorry: Irregardless is not a word)

actually, if you look at my post above, it is a word according to miriam webster, although they recommend using regardless in its place.

Backspacer_Backer

mh184572 wrote:

csickels wrote:

ok, i'll go song by song on the religious references:

Gonna see my friend: "Gonna take me an Astral Plane"

The Fixer: "I'll say your prayers. I'll take your side. I'll find us a way to make light"

Johnny Guitar: references the original sin "Foriginal sin". Clearly a Christian reference.

Just Breathe: "Hold me till I die, I'll meet you on the other side"

ATW: "I can feel like I have a soul that has been saved" Soul saving? seriously, this is not a gray area

Speed of Sound: "And yet I’m still holding tight to this dream of distant light" this is debateable, but worth considering

I think pretty much all of these are reaching in respects to being very "Christian" lyrics or sentiments. This is definitely not the first time taht Ed has referenced a life beyond this one. . . such notions certainly don't make this a christian rock album.

again, THE ORIGINAL SIN is directly from Genesis in the Bible. That is not a stretch. Saving the Soul is definitely religious, and likely Judeo-Christian.

Backspacer_Backer

bootlegger10 wrote:

Soul saving? seriously, this is not a gray area

Speed of Sound: "And yet I’m still holding tight to this dream of distant light" this is debateable, but worth considering

What frame of mind are you in where you can't handle these lyrics? What would be atheist lyrics? How depressing those most be.[/quote]

it's not about atheism. i like all of pearl jam's music (as do, i assume, you.) The vast majority have no religious references.[/quote]

90% of PJ's music is full of social and political b.s. I still enjoy it all. I don't necessarily like the speeches at the concerts. Why do a couple songs with questionable religious references throw you off like this? Is tolerance a word liberals preach but never use?[/quote]

angry Christian guy: it's not "throwing me off" at all. go back and read my original post. more than half of the songs on the album contain religious references. why does it "throw you off" so much that I'm pointing it out?

JD Sal

csickels wrote:

BinFrog wrote:

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

Irregardless of anyone's religious views I didn't realize that being anti-christianity earned someone some kind of medal of honor.
And, no, I don't find anything particularly religious about any of the lyrics....aside from maybe the reference to the other side, but the afterlife is something that has been referenced in his lyrics on several occasions.

(Pet peeve, sorry: Irregardless is not a word)

actually, if you look at my post above, it is a word according to miriam webster, although they recommend using regardless in its place.

ir·re·gard·less (ĭr'ĭ-gärd'lĭs)
adv. Nonstandard
Regardless.

[Probably blend of irrespective and regardless.]

Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

Oh, and it's Merriam