Not looking to complain or criticize, I'm just curious if this bothers anybody else. I love the album, have listened to it nonstop since Friday, and the more I listen, the more I like the ENTIRE record from start to finish.
But as that process goes on, and i familiarize myself with the lyrics, Eddie's apparent new willingness to include religious (even Christian) messages in the music is a turn off to me. I don't mind anybody's religion, I just don't like it in my rock music. That's called Christian rock, and it's something I don't get into. I am glad that Ed is happy with his current life situation, and if that includes being born again or just more comfortable writing about his faith, great for him. For me as a listener, that's the one thing I would change about Backspacer. Too many soul saving and prayer references for my taste.
Ummm, last I checked Eddie was vocally non-religious and constantly jabbed at religion in his show banter. C'mon now....you're reaching.
The day Pearl Jam turns into a Christian Rock band is the day I find a new favorite band. Period.
+1
I think "a soul that has been saved" is more about his own attitude and outlook (probably has to do with becoming a family man, etc) and not so much about religion, even though soul-saving is usually a religious reference. Also, people who are non-religious can still pray, and hope there's something up there listening... I don't think these words imply it's a christian message.
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
i just don't want it included in my rock music. religion is pretty much responsible for a large portion of the suffering that has taken place throughout the course of history. still, i don't "hate" it.
HAHAHAHAHAHA....
"I don't HATE religion... it's just the cause of all the world's problems and if it was gone we'd be in a utopia. But I don't HATE it..."
It's OK to go off about war, Bush, abortion, etc... but a vague mention of religion and its a turn off?
And, btw.. just putting "I don't mind anybody's religion, I just don't like it in my rock music." doesn't just make the rest of your statements all of the sudden less abrasive.
"I admire the life Ted Kennedy had but wow he was a murdering douchebag who got away with killing a woman."
(would anyone say that I really admired Ted Kennedy? Didn't think so)
still, i didn't say anything even bordering on "hatred" of religion.
i'm convinced that many of you have serious reading comprehension deficiencies. i don't have a problem with Ed using the word soul, because that's not exclusively a religious word. i'm not going to repeat everything i've typed. go back and re-read it if you don't understand.
I re-read your first post. A few veiled references to religion that were not religious and were sung by someone who despises religion caused you to make a post about how you didn't like that in the album. Only someone who hates religion would post about this. And even if you do hate religion, these lines aren't meant to be religious, so get over it.
Just imagine not wanting fetuses to die, and then listen to Pearl Jam's music. Then you'll have something to be offended about. Me, I don't want fetuses to die, but I still can listen to Pearl Jam's music without being a douche.
i just don't want it included in my rock music. religion is pretty much responsible for a large portion of the suffering that has taken place throughout the course of history. still, i don't "hate" it.
HAHAHAHAHAHA....
"I don't HATE religion... it's just the cause of all the world's problems and if it was gone we'd be in a utopia. But I don't HATE it..."
I think that Ed's religion is some sort of connection with nature, especially the ocean. the only song here that i can see any religious connection would be amongst the waves, and I think this is ed connecting with the ocean on a spiritual level. when it comes to christianity, no, i don't see that at all. last thing i heard ed say about religion was at the first chicago show when he said something like "one of the greatest punk bands of all time, religion is still bad and they are bad religion..."
Further back and forth a wave will break on me, today...
Do you hate religion? If not, then why do you have a problem with a few references (weak ones) to religion that aren't meant to be religious, and are spoken by someone who despises religion? You are odd
i just don't want it included in my rock music. religion is pretty much responsible for a large portion of the suffering that has taken place throughout the course of history. still, i don't "hate" it.
i'm not sure why this strikes you as odd, it's a pretty simple conclusion.
Hmmn...you don't want religion in your music (even references that aren't meant to be religious). It makes you so angry you let it effect how you enjoy the album. You think religion is responsible for a majority of the suffering in this world.
Yeah, I don't know how to read. I can't believe I would ever think you hate religion.
i'm convinced that many of you have serious reading comprehension deficiencies. i don't have a problem with Ed using the word soul, because that's not exclusively a religious word. i'm not going to repeat everything i've typed. go back and re-read it if you don't understand.
I re-read your first post. A few veiled references to religion that were not religious and were sung by someone who despises religion caused you to make a post about how you didn't like that in the album. Only someone who hates religion would post about this. And even if you do hate religion, these lines aren't meant to be religious, so get over it.
Just imagine not wanting fetuses to die, and then listen to Pearl Jam's music. Then you'll have something to be offended about. Me, I don't want fetuses to die, but I still can listen to Pearl Jam's music without being a douche.
i don't hate religion, and this is my 3rd or 4th favorite album. i think you've misinterpreted the point of my post. your abortion analogy is pretty far off base, BTW.
still, i didn't say anything even bordering on "hatred" of religion.
Anyone who starts a thread like this to complain about 3-4 vague religious references from EV who has never had a nice thing to say about religion must mean you really dislike/hate it to an unhealthy degree. Which I guess is fair because all of the people I know that believe in god go around killing people, raping animals, picking on he poor, etc. I mean downright horrible people for believing in that horrible horrible religion.
there are more religious references on this album than any past record (that are not there to bash religion).
Now that is just r e a c h i n g. All 4 of the last album have had more references to a higher power and so on...
Riot Act: Save You, Thumbing My Way, Love Boat Captain, Can't Keep, I Am Mine all have some connection, direct or implied, to religion. The whole album is spiritual and the religion depends on your interpretation.
Yield: Do The Evolution, Wishlist (particularly with Ed's reference to belief in 'something' on the MSG DVD), Jeff's LowLight, Given To Fly, fucking Pilate...
Yes, you have a point that there is implied religion throughout this album, depending on your interpretation as a listener, but it is less than previous albums.
i just don't want it included in my rock music. religion is pretty much responsible for a large portion of the suffering that has taken place throughout the course of history. still, i don't "hate" it.
HAHAHAHAHAHA....
"I don't HATE religion... it's just the cause of all the world's problems and if it was gone we'd be in a utopia. But I don't HATE it..."
yeah, i didn't say that.
Well, duh. i was just paraphrasing what you were really saying but don't have the guts to just come out and say while you try to act above it all.
still, i didn't say anything even bordering on "hatred" of religion.
Anyone who starts a thread like this to complain about 3-4 vague religious references from EV who has never had a nice thing to say about religion must mean you really dislike/hate it to an unhealthy degree. Which I guess is fair because all of the people I know that believe in god go around killing people, raping animals, picking on he poor, etc. I mean downright horrible people for believing in that horrible horrible religion.
Now be fair. Religous people also kill babies. Oh wait, no, dangerous liberals do. My bad.
still, i didn't say anything even bordering on "hatred" of religion.
Anyone who starts a thread like this to complain about 3-4 vague religious references from EV who has never had a nice thing to say about religion must mean you really dislike/hate it to an unhealthy degree. Which I guess is fair because all of the people I know that believe in god go around killing people, raping animals, picking on he poor, etc. I mean downright horrible people for believing in that horrible horrible religion.
lol "to an unhealthy degree". my grasp on religion and it's impact on the world is accurate and much more healthy than the millions of people who buy into a fairy tale.
however, if that makes people feel better, i support them doing it - and i have no problem with ANYBODY, including eddie, having faith in any sort of God. In fact, I could even believe that there is a higher power - it's organized religion that I see as the problem.
you seem incapable of having a mature discussion though, so I'll leave this topic alone - if you want to believe that I hate religion, that's fine. it's not true, but it's fine.
having the soul isn't Christian exclusively, or even religious. Having your soul SAVED is a religious or faith based ideal. If not for religion or faith, what would your soul need to be saved FROM?
again, i'll ask you, if not for religion, what does a soul need to be saved from? i believe that human beings may have a spirit (soul), but that doesn't mean that they requiring SAVING. soul saving is something that religious brainwashers cooked up to herd the sheep. this is pretty simply a religious lyric.
A lost soul that needs saving could be someone addicted to drugs or someone considering suicide? If this person is helped does it mean they go to heaven? No it means they will live to see another day? Does it mean that the person helping them goes to heaven? No they just did the right thing..the humane thing. It seems to me that YOU are making this a religious thing to which you obviously have serious issue with. I am blown away that you are this unnerved by this? If lyrics to music set you back like this maybe you should give this band a break and step away for a while..wow.
still, i didn't say anything even bordering on "hatred" of religion.
Anyone who starts a thread like this to complain about 3-4 vague religious references from EV who has never had a nice thing to say about religion must mean you really dislike/hate it to an unhealthy degree. Which I guess is fair because all of the people I know that believe in god go around killing people, raping animals, picking on he poor, etc. I mean downright horrible people for believing in that horrible horrible religion.
Now be fair. Religous people also kill babies. Oh wait, no, dangerous liberals do. My bad.
actually, religious people (even conservatives) do kill many more babies than abortion ever will. they just wait until they are born and either starve them or drop bombs on their heads.
still, i didn't say anything even bordering on "hatred" of religion.
Anyone who starts a thread like this to complain about 3-4 vague religious references from EV who has never had a nice thing to say about religion must mean you really dislike/hate it to an unhealthy degree. Which I guess is fair because all of the people I know that believe in god go around killing people, raping animals, picking on he poor, etc. I mean downright horrible people for believing in that horrible horrible religion.
lol "to an unhealthy degree". my grasp on religion and it's impact on the world is accurate and much more healthy than the millions of people who buy into a fairy tale.
however, if that makes people feel better, i support them doing it - and i have no problem with ANYBODY, including eddie, having faith in any sort of God. In fact, I could even believe that there is a higher power - it's organized religion that I see as the problem.
you seem incapable of having a mature discussion though, so I'll leave this topic alone - if you want to believe that I hate religion, that's fine. it's not true, but it's fine.
You are losing this debate. Give up. I can't believe I am delaying my golf round for this. I gotta go!
actually, religious people (even conservatives) do kill many more babies than abortion ever will. they just wait until they are born and either starve them or drop bombs on their heads.
actually, religious people (even conservatives) do kill many more babies than abortion ever will. they just wait until they are born and either starve them or drop bombs on their heads.
Again...
Even wars based on religion wouldn't have bombs to drop on heads unless you're going to say WW1/WW2/Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan are 'religious wars.'
And starving them? Are you kidding me? Do you not know how much money/time/aid/service religions give towards the poor? They do food pantries, missionary work, food drops to other countries.
Apparently your knowledge isn't that great since its apparently coming from some really, really angry sources. But hey, you don't hate religion, right? I mean after all, a few references to it didn't make you come on here to complain about it, right?
And I'm a person who wouldn't mind it if they were there.
EDIT: Just to tackle one of these ... "I'll say your prayers." It's not "I'll say MY prayers." The point of that bridge is "I'll do anything you want me to, in order to 'fix' this." HE's saying I'll say your prayers EVEN IF I DON'T BELIEVE THEM, if that will make you happy. It kind of reminds me of a lesser lyric from a Green Day song: "I'll go with you to church on Sunday, if you'll come with me on Friday night."
So, no, not Christian rock.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Okay, I'm from West Virginia, the closest thing to living in the Bible Belt without living there. I am also Buddhist.
All this discussion and argumentative back-and-forth about religious lyrics seems a bit silly on a Pearl Jam message board. The band and, more specifically, Eddie know that their fans run the gamut from Hindu to Christian and make the lyrics intentionally subdued and non-selective.
Csickels says organized religion is bad. I agree. He says there are religious lyrics on Backspacer. I agree. Does it turn me away from the songs? Hell no! (You like what I did there?)
Csickels, it does seem like you are against religion altogether or else just as close-minded as most West Virginians. Forget what man has done in the name of "God" because man does not truly understand the teachings of their prophets. Humans long ago lost touch with their true nature. That is why NOW they use religion as an excuse to control the chaos. Personally, I look at any religious story and see beyond the bullshit and dogma. I try to live my life based on the morals of these books.
My mom does not understand Buddhism, therefore she doesn't like it. Even after I throw out some of the correlations between Jesus and Buddha, she looks at me like I am lost. She doesn't get it because she has been blinded by the dogma of Christianity and the fallacy of man's understanding of the teachings of Jesus.
The stories of the Bible and the Koran and all the other various "tales", and I use that word with utmost reverence, are cores of behavior by which to live. These parables are meant to uplift, not fill you with hatred. They were meant to elicit fellowship amongst all men.
You are really stretching here. I find it funny. You do know that Ed doesn't believe in god.
how do you know? save the Garafolo article. I realize he DIDN'T. There's know way for either of us to know if he DOESN"T. Unless you are his wife or something.
"I'd like to thank God, who I don't believe in, for giving me this award."
"The real question isn't, how long did it take God to create man, but how long did it take man to create God."
"I thought I thought the world. Turns out the world thought me."
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Are there two people posting under the name csickels? I've never seen a thread with more contradictions by the same poster. It was almost comical. It was like someone was adapting the "Brutus is an honorable man" speech from Julius Caesar in forum form.
Plus, I don't like the racist overtones of the name "csickels". Sounds too much like "sickle cell". Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" racists, I just think they should all die a horrible painful death and burn in hell for eternity. But I'm not religious, so I don't even believe in hell. My head hurts!
Comments
+1
I think "a soul that has been saved" is more about his own attitude and outlook (probably has to do with becoming a family man, etc) and not so much about religion, even though soul-saving is usually a religious reference. Also, people who are non-religious can still pray, and hope there's something up there listening... I don't think these words imply it's a christian message.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
"I don't HATE religion... it's just the cause of all the world's problems and if it was gone we'd be in a utopia. But I don't HATE it..."
still, i didn't say anything even bordering on "hatred" of religion.
I re-read your first post. A few veiled references to religion that were not religious and were sung by someone who despises religion caused you to make a post about how you didn't like that in the album. Only someone who hates religion would post about this. And even if you do hate religion, these lines aren't meant to be religious, so get over it.
Just imagine not wanting fetuses to die, and then listen to Pearl Jam's music. Then you'll have something to be offended about. Me, I don't want fetuses to die, but I still can listen to Pearl Jam's music without being a douche.
yeah, i didn't say that.
Hmmn...you don't want religion in your music (even references that aren't meant to be religious). It makes you so angry you let it effect how you enjoy the album. You think religion is responsible for a majority of the suffering in this world.
Yeah, I don't know how to read. I can't believe I would ever think you hate religion.
i don't hate religion, and this is my 3rd or 4th favorite album. i think you've misinterpreted the point of my post. your abortion analogy is pretty far off base, BTW.
Now that is just r e a c h i n g. All 4 of the last album have had more references to a higher power and so on...
Riot Act: Save You, Thumbing My Way, Love Boat Captain, Can't Keep, I Am Mine all have some connection, direct or implied, to religion. The whole album is spiritual and the religion depends on your interpretation.
Yield: Do The Evolution, Wishlist (particularly with Ed's reference to belief in 'something' on the MSG DVD), Jeff's LowLight, Given To Fly, fucking Pilate...
Yes, you have a point that there is implied religion throughout this album, depending on your interpretation as a listener, but it is less than previous albums.
Now be fair. Religous people also kill babies. Oh wait, no, dangerous liberals do. My bad.
lol "to an unhealthy degree". my grasp on religion and it's impact on the world is accurate and much more healthy than the millions of people who buy into a fairy tale.
however, if that makes people feel better, i support them doing it - and i have no problem with ANYBODY, including eddie, having faith in any sort of God. In fact, I could even believe that there is a higher power - it's organized religion that I see as the problem.
you seem incapable of having a mature discussion though, so I'll leave this topic alone - if you want to believe that I hate religion, that's fine. it's not true, but it's fine.
I may be crazy, really, I might be crazy, but there are a lot of references to religion in this thread. It is kinda rubbing me the wrong way.
A lost soul that needs saving could be someone addicted to drugs or someone considering suicide? If this person is helped does it mean they go to heaven? No it means they will live to see another day? Does it mean that the person helping them goes to heaven? No they just did the right thing..the humane thing. It seems to me that YOU are making this a religious thing to which you obviously have serious issue with. I am blown away that you are this unnerved by this? If lyrics to music set you back like this maybe you should give this band a break and step away for a while..wow.
actually, religious people (even conservatives) do kill many more babies than abortion ever will. they just wait until they are born and either starve them or drop bombs on their heads.
You are losing this debate. Give up. I can't believe I am delaying my golf round for this. I gotta go!
How is Christianity responsible for starvation?
Is Iraq a religious war? No. It is about oil.
Is this a rhetorical question? LOLZ
Even wars based on religion wouldn't have bombs to drop on heads unless you're going to say WW1/WW2/Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan are 'religious wars.'
And starving them? Are you kidding me? Do you not know how much money/time/aid/service religions give towards the poor? They do food pantries, missionary work, food drops to other countries.
Apparently your knowledge isn't that great since its apparently coming from some really, really angry sources. But hey, you don't hate religion, right? I mean after all, a few references to it didn't make you come on here to complain about it, right?
And I'm a person who wouldn't mind it if they were there.
EDIT: Just to tackle one of these ... "I'll say your prayers." It's not "I'll say MY prayers." The point of that bridge is "I'll do anything you want me to, in order to 'fix' this." HE's saying I'll say your prayers EVEN IF I DON'T BELIEVE THEM, if that will make you happy. It kind of reminds me of a lesser lyric from a Green Day song: "I'll go with you to church on Sunday, if you'll come with me on Friday night."
So, no, not Christian rock.
for the least they could possibly do
All this discussion and argumentative back-and-forth about religious lyrics seems a bit silly on a Pearl Jam message board. The band and, more specifically, Eddie know that their fans run the gamut from Hindu to Christian and make the lyrics intentionally subdued and non-selective.
Csickels says organized religion is bad. I agree. He says there are religious lyrics on Backspacer. I agree. Does it turn me away from the songs? Hell no! (You like what I did there?)
Csickels, it does seem like you are against religion altogether or else just as close-minded as most West Virginians. Forget what man has done in the name of "God" because man does not truly understand the teachings of their prophets. Humans long ago lost touch with their true nature. That is why NOW they use religion as an excuse to control the chaos. Personally, I look at any religious story and see beyond the bullshit and dogma. I try to live my life based on the morals of these books.
My mom does not understand Buddhism, therefore she doesn't like it. Even after I throw out some of the correlations between Jesus and Buddha, she looks at me like I am lost. She doesn't get it because she has been blinded by the dogma of Christianity and the fallacy of man's understanding of the teachings of Jesus.
The stories of the Bible and the Koran and all the other various "tales", and I use that word with utmost reverence, are cores of behavior by which to live. These parables are meant to uplift, not fill you with hatred. They were meant to elicit fellowship amongst all men.
"I'd like to thank God, who I don't believe in, for giving me this award."
"The real question isn't, how long did it take God to create man, but how long did it take man to create God."
"I thought I thought the world. Turns out the world thought me."
for the least they could possibly do
To rainy for golf. Um, how is Christianity responsible for starving? Not a rhetorical question, but an actual question to you.
Plus, I don't like the racist overtones of the name "csickels". Sounds too much like "sickle cell". Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" racists, I just think they should all die a horrible painful death and burn in hell for eternity. But I'm not religious, so I don't even believe in hell. My head hurts!
I think they should cover Jesus Don't Want Me For a Sunbeam, which was also covered by the noted Christian rock band Nirvana.
for the least they could possibly do