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farewell to Ten Club (long)
joeroberts
Posts: 13
Good afternoon Ten Club,
I’m Riccardo Marcante, a 42-year old member of the club and I’m back from London where I’ve attended the show yesterday evening.
The purpose of this email is the description of how I’ve been treated by Karen (I don’t know her surname), one of your representatives and the explanation of my disappointment.
The story begins around 10 days ago, when a great friend of mine, Stefano Mattiozzi (not only one of the old Italian members of the club, but also a customer who has ordered a lot of items from the club including tickets for USA shows, as you may easily check looking at his account) broke his leg. He called me and told me he bought 2 tickets for the London show through the Club but he couldn’t attend. So he asked whether I’d like attending the show in his place, and of course I said yes.
Then he called the club on Aug. 15th asking how to manage the issue. The answer has been that a proxy letter and copies of credit card and ID card would have been enough for me to collect the tickets in his name. By the way, that sounded fair enough to his ears since the same procedure was valid for U2 shows last week, in London as well. Furthermore, back in 2007, some friends of ours had adopted the same policy for Pearl Jam show at Wembley Arena!
So yesterday me and my girlfriend, we took our flight from Italy and went directly to the O2 Arena in order to collect our tickets.
But first a man, than a woman from the venue said that they were not authorized to give me the tickets since I was not the person whose name was on the envelop and those were the rules set by Ten Club. I showed them the proxy letter, together with the copies of ID and credit cards, the lady even spoke with my friend Stefano on the phone but there has been no way: she seems to understand our frustration but Ten Club was not authorizing the collection. So I asked to speak with a representative of the club and this girl, Karen, came to the window.
Wearing a fake smile she didn’t even really listen to my story, nor she gave a look to the proxy letter but simply said “I don’t believe you, we have a precise procedure for such issues, and I don’t have here any email announcing me the change of the name, so I won’t give you the tickets.” Then, when I asked to her whether my friend (it was 3PM and he was still on the phone) could have sent an email thus amending the errors we may have done, she replied “No, it’s too late now. This conversation is over”. I tried to explain to her what a proxy letter means but she claimed that “no matter what the law may say, this is the policy of the club.”
So, at the end I asked to the box office whether at least they still had 2 tickets to sell, since I was there only to attend the show (I left London right after it). The same lady said that they were available and I had to move to a different window. I went to that window, nobody before me, and asked for 2 tickets. “I’m sorry, no availability at the moment” the answer was. “What?!? But that lady one minute ago said you still have tickets!?!?” So the first man came on a side of the operator (he thought I was not seeing him) and nodded. All of a sudden 2 tickets became available (and they were good tickets indeed) and I could buy them!!!
So far the story, now the lessons coming from it.
First thing I’ve learned is that Ten Club is a place where the law doesn’t apply. In the real world, a proxy letter is enough even to vote in a shareholders meeting of a company but not to collect tickets for a Pearl Jam show. Let me briefly remind you what does the USA law say about Proxies.
Proxy is defined by supreme courts as "an authority or power to do a certain thing." A person can confer on his proxy any power which he himself possesses. Where the proxy is duly appointed and he acts within the scope of the proxy, the person authorizing the proxy is bound by his appointee's acts, including his errors or mistakes (source: Wikipedia). So, yesterday, not taking into account the proxy letter, Ten Club has finally broken the law.
Second point, you should keep in mind, and make sure that your representatives around the world understand, that WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS, WE ARE THE REASON FOR YOU TO BE THERE, YOU’RE THERE TO PROVIDE A SERVICE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS, NOT DESPITE THEM.
When you do your job, you must consider that a number of inconveniences can occur (maybe Karen has not received any email due to a technical failure? Maybe her co-worker forgot to follow the right procedure? Maybe simply Stefano didn’t understand it?). You should try and find a way to solve the problems, not being bound to a policy that should protect fans more than anybody else (why was it too late to receive the appropriate email when it was only 3PM and she had her laptop with her?). You should find an alternative way to solve the issues, showing interested to suggestions by your customer, especially when you’re in front of persons who have flight especially for the show (my friend was on the phone, she could talk to him and get sure nobody of us was cheating or, at least, she could allow me the collection only 10 minutes before the show in order to be even more sure).
Even more, you can’t talk to a customer without listening to him. I was asking to her why we should have not followed the right procedure if we knew it and she was saying the same old story about Ten Club rules.
We might have not followed the right rule but it’s not a reason for treating us that bad. There was plenty of time to do anything. The most disgusting part of it all is that, although I had the copy of my friend’s documents in my hand and he was on the phone and he was not complaining about any theft, Karen simply didn’t want to find a solution to help two members of the fan club for which she works and treated us as the worst of the cheaters she might had found on her road.
Finally, you can’t finish a discussion simply saying “this conversation is over.” Never! Believe me, if we weren’t in such a situation and my target was not attending a show for which I’d flied overnight, maybe the conversation would have been finished but Karen surely would have left with the mark of my hand on her cheek, since I don’t admit even from my parents to shut my mouth this way. How can you take such a liberty? Who do you think you are only because you wear a backstage pass and have a walkie-talkie?!?
Third point, the tickets. I attend shows of many different artists all around the world, I’m a member of several fan clubs (U2, R.E.M. and others) and sometimes it happens to me to buy tickets through them. But never ever I paid twice any tickets! Yesterday this is what happened: I’ve paid twice my tickets, like if I’d bought them from the worst of the scalpers I may have found on the boardwalk outside the arena. And if those 2 magic tickets wouldn’t have appeared, I had probably to look for some scalpers or get simply back home. And what about the “strange and sudden” availability of tickets? I’m really curious to know how many other tickets were “available but hidden”. And what if I ask where have my original tickets gone? Have they been re-selled to someone?
Fourth and final point. I’d never thought that a band like Pearl Jam, always claiming their commitment next to their fans vs. Ticketmaster and other companies could allow their employees treating their fans this way, like the worst of cheaters. Yesterday I’ve paid my last 100 pounds to anything linked with Pearl Jam. I hope you’re getting richer with those money, surely I won’t get any poorer. An old rule of marketing, probably the oldest one, says that it’s even better to lose money than a customer. Well, yesterday sure you’ve not lost any money (damn, you got the double!), but you’ve lost more than a customer. You’ve lost credibility in front of an old fan.
My friend is still at the hospital; he will raise his voice in the next few days when he’ll be back home. And you’ll have two disappointed die-hard fans.
As uncle Bob (Dylan) says, goodbye’s too good a word, so I’ll just say fare thee well!
Riccardo
I’m Riccardo Marcante, a 42-year old member of the club and I’m back from London where I’ve attended the show yesterday evening.
The purpose of this email is the description of how I’ve been treated by Karen (I don’t know her surname), one of your representatives and the explanation of my disappointment.
The story begins around 10 days ago, when a great friend of mine, Stefano Mattiozzi (not only one of the old Italian members of the club, but also a customer who has ordered a lot of items from the club including tickets for USA shows, as you may easily check looking at his account) broke his leg. He called me and told me he bought 2 tickets for the London show through the Club but he couldn’t attend. So he asked whether I’d like attending the show in his place, and of course I said yes.
Then he called the club on Aug. 15th asking how to manage the issue. The answer has been that a proxy letter and copies of credit card and ID card would have been enough for me to collect the tickets in his name. By the way, that sounded fair enough to his ears since the same procedure was valid for U2 shows last week, in London as well. Furthermore, back in 2007, some friends of ours had adopted the same policy for Pearl Jam show at Wembley Arena!
So yesterday me and my girlfriend, we took our flight from Italy and went directly to the O2 Arena in order to collect our tickets.
But first a man, than a woman from the venue said that they were not authorized to give me the tickets since I was not the person whose name was on the envelop and those were the rules set by Ten Club. I showed them the proxy letter, together with the copies of ID and credit cards, the lady even spoke with my friend Stefano on the phone but there has been no way: she seems to understand our frustration but Ten Club was not authorizing the collection. So I asked to speak with a representative of the club and this girl, Karen, came to the window.
Wearing a fake smile she didn’t even really listen to my story, nor she gave a look to the proxy letter but simply said “I don’t believe you, we have a precise procedure for such issues, and I don’t have here any email announcing me the change of the name, so I won’t give you the tickets.” Then, when I asked to her whether my friend (it was 3PM and he was still on the phone) could have sent an email thus amending the errors we may have done, she replied “No, it’s too late now. This conversation is over”. I tried to explain to her what a proxy letter means but she claimed that “no matter what the law may say, this is the policy of the club.”
So, at the end I asked to the box office whether at least they still had 2 tickets to sell, since I was there only to attend the show (I left London right after it). The same lady said that they were available and I had to move to a different window. I went to that window, nobody before me, and asked for 2 tickets. “I’m sorry, no availability at the moment” the answer was. “What?!? But that lady one minute ago said you still have tickets!?!?” So the first man came on a side of the operator (he thought I was not seeing him) and nodded. All of a sudden 2 tickets became available (and they were good tickets indeed) and I could buy them!!!
So far the story, now the lessons coming from it.
First thing I’ve learned is that Ten Club is a place where the law doesn’t apply. In the real world, a proxy letter is enough even to vote in a shareholders meeting of a company but not to collect tickets for a Pearl Jam show. Let me briefly remind you what does the USA law say about Proxies.
Proxy is defined by supreme courts as "an authority or power to do a certain thing." A person can confer on his proxy any power which he himself possesses. Where the proxy is duly appointed and he acts within the scope of the proxy, the person authorizing the proxy is bound by his appointee's acts, including his errors or mistakes (source: Wikipedia). So, yesterday, not taking into account the proxy letter, Ten Club has finally broken the law.
Second point, you should keep in mind, and make sure that your representatives around the world understand, that WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS, WE ARE THE REASON FOR YOU TO BE THERE, YOU’RE THERE TO PROVIDE A SERVICE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS, NOT DESPITE THEM.
When you do your job, you must consider that a number of inconveniences can occur (maybe Karen has not received any email due to a technical failure? Maybe her co-worker forgot to follow the right procedure? Maybe simply Stefano didn’t understand it?). You should try and find a way to solve the problems, not being bound to a policy that should protect fans more than anybody else (why was it too late to receive the appropriate email when it was only 3PM and she had her laptop with her?). You should find an alternative way to solve the issues, showing interested to suggestions by your customer, especially when you’re in front of persons who have flight especially for the show (my friend was on the phone, she could talk to him and get sure nobody of us was cheating or, at least, she could allow me the collection only 10 minutes before the show in order to be even more sure).
Even more, you can’t talk to a customer without listening to him. I was asking to her why we should have not followed the right procedure if we knew it and she was saying the same old story about Ten Club rules.
We might have not followed the right rule but it’s not a reason for treating us that bad. There was plenty of time to do anything. The most disgusting part of it all is that, although I had the copy of my friend’s documents in my hand and he was on the phone and he was not complaining about any theft, Karen simply didn’t want to find a solution to help two members of the fan club for which she works and treated us as the worst of the cheaters she might had found on her road.
Finally, you can’t finish a discussion simply saying “this conversation is over.” Never! Believe me, if we weren’t in such a situation and my target was not attending a show for which I’d flied overnight, maybe the conversation would have been finished but Karen surely would have left with the mark of my hand on her cheek, since I don’t admit even from my parents to shut my mouth this way. How can you take such a liberty? Who do you think you are only because you wear a backstage pass and have a walkie-talkie?!?
Third point, the tickets. I attend shows of many different artists all around the world, I’m a member of several fan clubs (U2, R.E.M. and others) and sometimes it happens to me to buy tickets through them. But never ever I paid twice any tickets! Yesterday this is what happened: I’ve paid twice my tickets, like if I’d bought them from the worst of the scalpers I may have found on the boardwalk outside the arena. And if those 2 magic tickets wouldn’t have appeared, I had probably to look for some scalpers or get simply back home. And what about the “strange and sudden” availability of tickets? I’m really curious to know how many other tickets were “available but hidden”. And what if I ask where have my original tickets gone? Have they been re-selled to someone?
Fourth and final point. I’d never thought that a band like Pearl Jam, always claiming their commitment next to their fans vs. Ticketmaster and other companies could allow their employees treating their fans this way, like the worst of cheaters. Yesterday I’ve paid my last 100 pounds to anything linked with Pearl Jam. I hope you’re getting richer with those money, surely I won’t get any poorer. An old rule of marketing, probably the oldest one, says that it’s even better to lose money than a customer. Well, yesterday sure you’ve not lost any money (damn, you got the double!), but you’ve lost more than a customer. You’ve lost credibility in front of an old fan.
My friend is still at the hospital; he will raise his voice in the next few days when he’ll be back home. And you’ll have two disappointed die-hard fans.
As uncle Bob (Dylan) says, goodbye’s too good a word, so I’ll just say fare thee well!
Riccardo
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Comments
I do appreciate you eating the airfare and expenses, I would've hated for that to have happened to me, but I think I would have had something more concrete than a proxy letter the day of the event at the will-call window which more than likely increased congestion of traffic and probably slowed down everyone else trying to get their tickets and get in to the show...I understand the point you are (trying to) make here, but this is a highly unusual circumstance being thrown at a 10C staffer without any prior notice...so, now we all know what to do if this situation arrises for us, your lesson becomes ours...
So unusual that Karen should have sided with the side of reason and not the hard line, unreasonable stance of "rules are rules". I guarantee people don't try to steal other people's ten club tickets with proxy letters and other evidence that was presented on a regular basis, something was set up here and someone dropped the ball with the follow through. Seems really strange that this went down this way though, if it did the way it was described.
Seattle Key Arena 9-21-2009
Seattle Key Arena 9-22-2009
You are fine, my friend...this guy had photocopies of ID's and Credit cards that were not his....
Kinda what I meant by 'highly unusual'...not an everyday thing, and, yes, seemingly, someone on one end or the other obviously 'dropped the ball'
Having dealt with concert promoters both as a fan and as an insider, I am shocked by the arrogance that is often displayed. Whoever the representative in London was, she was surely of the mindset that concert-goers are not entitled to any type of customer service although they are the ones paying ridiculous amounts of money to support the artists and management.
If I had flown to a concert, I definitely would not have settled for a simple "this conversation is over" type response from anyone.
I'll just post this before someone else does for the 6,876,564th time...
Tickets are not mailed in advance. Tickets are distributed at the venue on the day of the show. The Ten Club member must collect the tickets with a valid photo identification.
By opting to purchase tickets, you agree to all Ten Club policies. All ticket sales are final. No refunds, exchanges or transfers. Please visit here http://www.pearljam.com/ten-club/tickets for a full description of the Ten Club ticketing policy and procedure.
Yah but the friend broke his leg and the 10 club said they could transfer the tickets when he called em after it happened! This was planned out and its pretty low they wouldn't honor that.
Seattle Key Arena 9-21-2009
Seattle Key Arena 9-22-2009
That's great you put that up all bold like but ask anyone who's been around here for a while, every tour the ten club accommodates ticket transfers. I know of them happening at least the past three tours.
I think before we get to where you are seemingly going with this, we should hear the other side of this story
We are reading one person's version of what happened...I am not 'siding' with 10C, but we all know the rules inside and out at this point, especially the long-term fanclub members
And that will never happen.
Ultimately it is none of anyone's business, it is between the ten club, the OP and original ticket holder. Perhaps the ten club can reach out and try and make it right. But for everyone of these stories out there is there is another talking about how a ten club employee came through for them. I have experienced this myself. The Ten Club employees are only people... we all fuck up from time to time.
DISTRIBUTION
* Tickets will be distributed at the venue box office on the day of the show only. We will not mail your tickets in advance of the show.
* Tickets are pre-determined so arriving at the box office early will not increase your chances of better seats.
* You must show a government-issued photo ID (driver's license, passport, school ID) to collect your tickets at the box office. No exceptions. It is also helpful, but not necessary, to have your Ten Club member number available for additional verification.
* The Ten Club member whose account was used to purchase the tickets must be present to collect the tickets on the day of the show. No exceptions.
Not being privy to the conversation that said a proxy would be enough, I can't say whether this is what was meant or acknowledged. But I have to look at it from "Karen's" side - if someone produces a letter and a photocopy of someone's ID, and she had not been made aware prior that this person would be coming to do this, I can see her skepticism. These are not things that would be hard to procure. And a voice on the phone is just that, a voice on the phone.
None of us were there except the parties involved, but I think the OP is barking up the wrong tree to call out the band or even 10C for the situation he found himself in. Maybe the situation could have been handled differently as well, possibly from both sides, as we don't know how he or she actually handled the situation. And it sounds like they may have helped him get some (by his account) good tickets, so he wasn't left entirely high and dry.
And how many 10C members had no trouble getting their tickets that day ? You can't take this one person's take on the situation he found himself in to color the entire organization. That's ridiculous.
Dude you know Ed and Jeff were back there saying "A fucking proxy letter!? Fuck that and fuck that guy!" "No fucking way dude!"
Dude,
STFU!
Seriously OP, you got great seats and you are still butt hurt? Man I was in the middle on this one too! Not anymore.
Yes I am because:
1) there were still tickets available at the box office but somehow they were hidden. Can someone explain me that?
2) I was not cheating anybody but I've paid twice the price to get regular tickets; probably I could have found a chepear scalper out there.
And, by the way, I won't ever STFU!
R
Has it occurred to you that box offices might have tickets tucked away for such occasions, and that you might not have been as dicked over as you think you were? Has that thought crossed your mind for a second?
Section 111, Row Z seats 350-351
And no, this option has not crossed my mind since rules are rules and shit never happens, I've been taught by Karen.
Hmmm, those look like they suck. Good seats? I think they got you twice!
2nd section (3rd if you count side stage section) from the stage, closer than half the arena.
To me they still sound good.
3rd level or nosebleed seats would have been worse, how fool I am.
Prior to post it, I sent the message to 3 addresses of the fan club. Should you're interested, I'll keep you updated on their reply, although I won't bet a dime on a reasonable one.
First off... August 15th... kinda short notice, yeah? I mean, I know the whole thing came up out of the blue, with the broken leg and all... being completely out of anyone's control... but, that short of a lead time does not allow for much confirmation/authorization... especially when they are already out on the road. There's a lot of stuff that goes on with a tour... let alone an overseas tour. I am certain you understand that, too.
Also... I am glad that the Ten Club is strict with their tickets. It limits access to the tickets, especially from the general public. Some of those other fan clubs allow members to 'swap' tickets... which many do... swap tickets for cash and at a hefty profit.
We have all gone through this ticket buying pre-sale here, right? Imagine if it were easy to transfer tickets... wouldn't that mean i could buy tickets for London... while living in L.A... with no intentions of going, rather, buying them with the sole purpose to sell them at a premium to pay for the local shows I plan on attending. And anyone living anywhere could do the same. Why not buy enough tickets to finance a free ride to a few shows?
...
Again, I understand your plight... and i understand the Ten/VHC's side of the arguement. I am trying to look at it as objectively as I can.
Hail, Hail!!!
The 'Hidden' tickets are normally No-Shows. Tickets set aside for promoters, band friends and family, etc... If they don't show up, the tickets are up for grabs.
Hail, Hail!!!
You should have waited for a response, they might have made it right.