actually tons of them work and receive paychecks/W-2's using false Social security numbers....then they never file tax returns because the IRS can pick up on the false SSN so the IRS gets to keep all the money they paid in since they can't file a return to get a refund
define "tons"
"Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal immigrants pay payroll taxes," said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security's chief actuary, using the agency's term for illegal immigration.
I wonder, if Medicaid/Medicare sucks so much, why don't the elderly and those on Medicaid go out and by private insurance....? you know, cuz private insurance is better...right...?
The medical bill should be sent to whatever country she is from. The taxpayers of this country should not have to pay for this criminal. Undocumented immigrants? That is like calling the street corner drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist.
Her delivery is covered by EMSA (Emergency Medical Services for Aliens), which I believe is a federal program through Medicaid. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have such a program to treat people with medical emergencies?
Her child is a United States citizen, and therefore entitled to the same healthcare coverage as any of us - except it will likely be a lifetime of coverage due to his/her disabilities.
I completely disagree with your comparison between undocumented immigrants and drug dealers. Drug dealers harm others for personal gain. Most undocumented immigrants are merely trying to provide for their families. What loving parent would turn down an opportunity to feed their children so as to not upset a portion of people in the richest country in the world (which arguably became that way through the exploitation of other people/countries... but that's another discussion)?
Treat an emergency, but deny them when they go to the emergency room for the sniffles, which they have a habit of doing.
The child being a citizen is a joke. That part of the 14th needs to be repealed as it is being abused and not used for it was originally intended.
They are here illegally, they are breaking the law. Is it ok for me to rob a bank because I need to feed my family? They need to get in line and do things by the law.
not only is Obama taxing the rich he intends to destroy the middle class!! :shock:
i was bringing my trashcan in earlier and could hear my neighbors radio, not sure who it was but it sounded like Rush Limbaugh....anyway, whoever it was was going on about Obama taxing the rich and all his other wasteful programs and wasteful spending and how this will only destroy the middle class and mark his words: if we have 8 years of this there will be no more middle class!!!
it's kinda funny when ya think about when people talked about the damage to the middle class under the last administration the conservatives all said how liberals were trying to incite class warfare and blah blah blah
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Here is another thing. All of these politicians, no matter the party, that want this package to go through should also be forced to accept it for their own health care. After all we are paying their salaries and benefits, they are not Kings and Queens, they should accept what they think is good enough for the American citizen.
The child being a citizen is a joke. That part of the 14th needs to be repealed as it is being abused and not used for it was originally intended.
Hey man, it's the law. I thought you were all about following the law. You can't pick & choose.
Also, your plan would mean families could be here for GENERATIONS and still be considered to be here illegally. I didn't have to go through any extra process/paperwork/expense to become a U.S. citizen when I was born here... why should anyone else?
They are here illegally, they are breaking the law. Is it ok for me to rob a bank because I need to feed my family? They need to get in line and do things by the law.
Robbing a bank means you're not working for the money you earn; to the contrary, undocumented immigrants usually work extra hard for the money they earn - and you and I both reap the benefits of their work. Robbing a bank also implies violence or the threat of violence against others, which is not nearly comparable to not completing the proper paperwork to enter the country.
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated - Gandhi
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
i am completely ok with it too.
contrary to your popular belief, i do work my ass off, but will never come close to earning that kind of income. i guarantee if i did, i would have no issues paying a highter tax bracket to help those less fortunate than myself.
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
i am completely ok with it too.
contrary to your popular belief, i do work my ass off, but will never come close to earning that kind of income. i guarantee if i did, i would have no issues paying a highter tax bracket to help those less fortunate than myself.
I'm not going to get into some kind of "We Are The World" type conversation with you - nor anyone else. I don't know anyone personally who wants people to starve, or go without the basics. But soaking the (so-called) rich is not the answer. Even before the U.S. fell onto these hard economic times. I've certainly worked with people within the community whom were just plain lazy. I don't want to support people like this...- those whom's career choice is to do nothing, with alot of support to not even try, and just decide to live off of tax-payer dollars. (And that goes for Illegals as well.) There is something wrong with THAT, too.
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated - Gandhi
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
I wonder, if Medicaid/Medicare sucks so much, why don't the elderly and those on Medicaid go out and by private insurance....? you know, cuz private insurance is better...right...?
my grandmother uses both because medicare doesnt cover 100% and its not like she has a choice to opt out of medicare anyway.
I'm not going to get into some kind of "We Are The World" type conversation with you - nor anyone else. I don't know anyone personally who wants people to starve, or go without the basics. But soaking the (so-called) rich is not the answer. Even before the U.S. fell onto these hard economic times. I've certainly worked with people within the community whom were just plain lazy. I don't want to support people like this...- those whom's career choice is to do nothing, with alot of support to not even try, and just decide to live off of tax-payer dollars. (And that goes for Illegals as well.) There is something wrong with THAT, too.
but its lazy peoples right to have free health care...or something like that
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
You are not alone.
i agree.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
You are not alone.
i agree.
Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?
And again, i disagree, for reasons i have already said.
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
i am completely ok with it too.
contrary to your popular belief, i do work my ass off, but will never come close to earning that kind of income. i guarantee if i did, i would have no issues paying a highter tax bracket to help those less fortunate than myself.
No reason to explain yourself to this "Jain" person, TA. She generalizes to the point that she *thinks* she knows our personal situations when she knows *exactly* nothing about either of us.
And Jain? Where's the ignore button? I don't have issues with you, yet you seek me out. What's your problem?
Don't worry, I won't explain my life to you (why you'd think I'd take the time to explain to you anyway is beyond me). :roll:
Since you are that type of person, as well as others who've agreed with you, who like to "generalize" others for what they agree with and what they don't, WITHOUT ANY OTHER EXPLANATION, well you can go crawl back under a rock, because it's blatantly obvious how closed-minded and completely unwilling you are to even care to understand where anyone else comes from.
I'm not going to get into some kind of "We Are The World" type conversation with you - nor anyone else. I don't know anyone personally who wants people to starve, or go without the basics. But soaking the (so-called) rich is not the answer. Even before the U.S. fell onto these hard economic times. I've certainly worked with people within the community whom were just plain lazy. I don't want to support people like this...- those whom's career choice is to do nothing, with alot of support to not even try, and just decide to live off of tax-payer dollars. (And that goes for Illegals as well.) There is something wrong with THAT, too.
Oh, because you may have had experience with SOME lazy people, you're going to generalize that everyone who doesn't think like you are lazy. Lump everyone into two categories. See, that's the problem; everything's not black and white.
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
You might want to change your signature then.....
Your statement can also work the other way, you know. Until you have worked your ass off only to remain poor and uninsured, you wouldn't understand that position. And no one should have the arbitrary right to the fruits of another's labor - especially without providing basic health care in exchange. (You may say it's not arbitrary because the employees off whose backs most of those rich people "earn" their money could just get another job if they don't like it... to which I'd say the rich people who pay taxes could just move to another country if they don't like it.)
By the way, it's my understanding that two of the richest (and, by your logic, therefore most hard-working) people in this country (Buffett & Gates) do agree with this.
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
You might want to change your signature then.....
Your statement can also work the other way, you know. Until you have worked your ass off only to remain poor and uninsured, you wouldn't understand that position. And no one should have the arbitrary right to the fruits of another's labor - especially without providing basic health care in exchange. (You may say it's not arbitrary because the employees off whose backs most of those rich people "earn" their money could just get another job if they don't like it... to which I'd say the rich people who pay taxes could just move to another country if they don't like it.)
By the way, it's my understanding that two of the richest (and, by your logic, therefore most hard-working) people in this country (Buffett & Gates) do agree with this.
good point and well said..............that is why i like this place, i am confused on this subject.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
Stealing is stealing, no matter what coat of paint you try to cover it with.
Wait - remind me again how they're stealing? Breaking the law, sure... but stealing?
There are plenty of citizens in this country that would take those jobs. Time and time again after these meatpacking plants are raided there are hundreds of citizens applying for those jobs the very next day. The employer crackdowns need to be ramped up greatly and the fines for employing illegal aliens needs to be severe, up to and including jail time for these CEO's.
This country is in a mess, we can't afford to not work for our own citizens.
Stealing is stealing, no matter what coat of paint you try to cover it with.
Wait - remind me again how they're stealing? Breaking the law, sure... but stealing?
There are plenty of citizens in this country that would take those jobs. Time and time again after these meatpacking plants are raided there are hundreds of citizens applying for those jobs the very next day. The employer crackdowns need to be ramped up greatly and the fines for employing illegal aliens needs to be severe, up to and including jail time for these CEO's.
This country is in a mess, we can't afford to not work for our own citizens.
Eh... stealing's a stretch considering that they were hired for the jobs. I'll agree that they're criminals in that they don't live here legally, but I'm pretty sure you know (and the law agrees) that there are varying degrees of severity of crime. Comparing these people to violent felons is inappropriate and I believe it's only done to dehumanize them so as to justify the attitude that they are less deserving of health care than those of us who were fortunate enough to have been born on this side of the border.
Just a comment from an outsider on the whole healthcare issue.
I see that perceived huge additional costs with providing health care to all is an issue. To that I'd say that it doesn't have to cost more than you are spending today on various Medicare/Medicaid measures plus the money you use for insurance premiums. Noone in the world spends as much money as you per capita on health. Not even "socialist Europeans" come close. Noone has as many doctors as you do per capita. That you still have millions without care is not because more money is needed. It's purely an organizational and structural issue. You get rid of the maximised profit incentive and having a state single payer system would reduce overhead by so much that millions more could get care without a single added cent. Probably all of them. The state could then use it's bargaining power to bear against the doctors and medical companies to get discounts and lower fees. (And yes, they would still make more than enough money to stay happy)
It is completely doable, and is done in many countries that are otherwise pretty comparable to the US. And these other countries spend far less on it too.
The quality is also brought up all the time. To that I'll say that for many people, if they could have the choice of 3 slightly different shitty plans, and a compulsory mediocre plan, there's no doubt which they'd want. It is about priority really. Should most people get decent care, or should some get super care on the expense of huge numbers getting none? I also feel very strongly that access to health care should be dictated by need and seriousness of the condition, not your bank account. Would mean that you'd have to wait a bit longer to deal with smaller nuisances. But I for one, dont have a problem waiting a bit to have someone look at my moderately ailing knees, if that means they treat someone's heart attack before me. Also, at some point the people who havent gotten any prior treatment turn up at the emergency room with a REALLY serious condition that must out of moral conscience be treated at once at huge expense. You may stick a bill in their pocket on their way out (if they survive), but chances are they can't really pay it, incurring a cost on the system anyway. It's not very efficient, not to mention morality.
People have a right to life, and the right to health care comes naturally along as a consequence. People have as much need for health services as they do army and police for instance. And I never hear much complaining about spending on those.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Here is another thing. All of these politicians, no matter the party, that want this package to go through should also be forced to accept it for their own health care. After all we are paying their salaries and benefits, they are not Kings and Queens, they should accept what they think is good enough for the American citizen.
and they and their families continue to receive these benefits after they leave office, don't they?
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our system...
Whose money was it before it was yours? Someone else's?
I make a decent living and of course no one likes to pay taxes but that's capitalism. The same system that allows you to make what you make and spend what you spend needs to dip into your pockets every once in awhile....that's just the way it is....I'm guessing you aren't old enough to remember the 50% income tax bracket last seen in 1986?????
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our system...
Whose money was it before it was yours? Someone else's?
I make a decent living and of course no one likes to pay taxes but that's capitalism. The same system that allows you to make what you make and spend what you spend needs to dip into your pockets every once in awhile....that's just the way it is....I'm guessing you aren't old enough to remember the 50% income tax bracket last seen in 1986?????
thats not capitalism, thats socialism. get your isms right
I'm not going to get into some kind of "We Are The World" type conversation with you - nor anyone else. I don't know anyone personally who wants people to starve, or go without the basics. But soaking the (so-called) rich is not the answer. Even before the U.S. fell onto these hard economic times. I've certainly worked with people within the community whom were just plain lazy. I don't want to support people like this...- those whom's career choice is to do nothing, with alot of support to not even try, and just decide to live off of tax-payer dollars. (And that goes for Illegals as well.) There is something wrong with THAT, too.
Oh, because you may have had experience with SOME lazy people, you're going to generalize that everyone who doesn't think like you are lazy. Lump everyone into two categories. See, that's the problem; everything's not black and white.
exactly....my right winger Rush Limbaugh disciple brother in law is the same way....yes there are lazy people who are on welfare...there are also lazy rich people who get their asses in debt and file bankruptcy...bankruptcy is the rich mans welfare
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Comments
The plan I think will be great for everyone is not the one Obama's pitching.
they would have to....
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
thanks!
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
who said they weren't?
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Treat an emergency, but deny them when they go to the emergency room for the sniffles, which they have a habit of doing.
The child being a citizen is a joke. That part of the 14th needs to be repealed as it is being abused and not used for it was originally intended.
They are here illegally, they are breaking the law. Is it ok for me to rob a bank because I need to feed my family? They need to get in line and do things by the law.
i was bringing my trashcan in earlier and could hear my neighbors radio, not sure who it was but it sounded like Rush Limbaugh....anyway, whoever it was was going on about Obama taxing the rich and all his other wasteful programs and wasteful spending and how this will only destroy the middle class and mark his words: if we have 8 years of this there will be no more middle class!!!
it's kinda funny when ya think about when people talked about the damage to the middle class under the last administration the conservatives all said how liberals were trying to incite class warfare and blah blah blah
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I'd love to see some data on that.
Hey man, it's the law. I thought you were all about following the law. You can't pick & choose.
Also, your plan would mean families could be here for GENERATIONS and still be considered to be here illegally. I didn't have to go through any extra process/paperwork/expense to become a U.S. citizen when I was born here... why should anyone else?
Robbing a bank means you're not working for the money you earn; to the contrary, undocumented immigrants usually work extra hard for the money they earn - and you and I both reap the benefits of their work. Robbing a bank also implies violence or the threat of violence against others, which is not nearly comparable to not completing the proper paperwork to enter the country.
It figures. I don't know your situation (don't want to -so please don't share it with me). In general - the only people whom agree with this - are those whom have not worked their asses off to earn this kind of income. I'm sure I stand, for the most part, alone (on this websight). However - until one earns it, and has reaped what they earn - you wouldn't understand that position. No one should ever have the arbitrary right, nor entitlement- to someone else's money.
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
contrary to your popular belief, i do work my ass off, but will never come close to earning that kind of income. i guarantee if i did, i would have no issues paying a highter tax bracket to help those less fortunate than myself.
I'm not going to get into some kind of "We Are The World" type conversation with you - nor anyone else. I don't know anyone personally who wants people to starve, or go without the basics. But soaking the (so-called) rich is not the answer. Even before the U.S. fell onto these hard economic times. I've certainly worked with people within the community whom were just plain lazy. I don't want to support people like this...- those whom's career choice is to do nothing, with alot of support to not even try, and just decide to live off of tax-payer dollars. (And that goes for Illegals as well.) There is something wrong with THAT, too.
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
my grandmother uses both because medicare doesnt cover 100% and its not like she has a choice to opt out of medicare anyway.
but its lazy peoples right to have free health care...or something like that
You are not alone.
And again, i disagree, for reasons i have already said.
And Jain? Where's the ignore button? I don't have issues with you, yet you seek me out. What's your problem?
Don't worry, I won't explain my life to you (why you'd think I'd take the time to explain to you anyway is beyond me). :roll:
Since you are that type of person, as well as others who've agreed with you, who like to "generalize" others for what they agree with and what they don't, WITHOUT ANY OTHER EXPLANATION, well you can go crawl back under a rock, because it's blatantly obvious how closed-minded and completely unwilling you are to even care to understand where anyone else comes from.
Wait - remind me again how they're stealing? Breaking the law, sure... but stealing?
You might want to change your signature then.....
Your statement can also work the other way, you know. Until you have worked your ass off only to remain poor and uninsured, you wouldn't understand that position. And no one should have the arbitrary right to the fruits of another's labor - especially without providing basic health care in exchange. (You may say it's not arbitrary because the employees off whose backs most of those rich people "earn" their money could just get another job if they don't like it... to which I'd say the rich people who pay taxes could just move to another country if they don't like it.)
By the way, it's my understanding that two of the richest (and, by your logic, therefore most hard-working) people in this country (Buffett & Gates) do agree with this.
There are plenty of citizens in this country that would take those jobs. Time and time again after these meatpacking plants are raided there are hundreds of citizens applying for those jobs the very next day. The employer crackdowns need to be ramped up greatly and the fines for employing illegal aliens needs to be severe, up to and including jail time for these CEO's.
This country is in a mess, we can't afford to not work for our own citizens.
Eh... stealing's a stretch considering that they were hired for the jobs. I'll agree that they're criminals in that they don't live here legally, but I'm pretty sure you know (and the law agrees) that there are varying degrees of severity of crime. Comparing these people to violent felons is inappropriate and I believe it's only done to dehumanize them so as to justify the attitude that they are less deserving of health care than those of us who were fortunate enough to have been born on this side of the border.
I see that perceived huge additional costs with providing health care to all is an issue. To that I'd say that it doesn't have to cost more than you are spending today on various Medicare/Medicaid measures plus the money you use for insurance premiums. Noone in the world spends as much money as you per capita on health. Not even "socialist Europeans" come close. Noone has as many doctors as you do per capita. That you still have millions without care is not because more money is needed. It's purely an organizational and structural issue. You get rid of the maximised profit incentive and having a state single payer system would reduce overhead by so much that millions more could get care without a single added cent. Probably all of them. The state could then use it's bargaining power to bear against the doctors and medical companies to get discounts and lower fees. (And yes, they would still make more than enough money to stay happy)
It is completely doable, and is done in many countries that are otherwise pretty comparable to the US. And these other countries spend far less on it too.
The quality is also brought up all the time. To that I'll say that for many people, if they could have the choice of 3 slightly different shitty plans, and a compulsory mediocre plan, there's no doubt which they'd want. It is about priority really. Should most people get decent care, or should some get super care on the expense of huge numbers getting none? I also feel very strongly that access to health care should be dictated by need and seriousness of the condition, not your bank account. Would mean that you'd have to wait a bit longer to deal with smaller nuisances. But I for one, dont have a problem waiting a bit to have someone look at my moderately ailing knees, if that means they treat someone's heart attack before me. Also, at some point the people who havent gotten any prior treatment turn up at the emergency room with a REALLY serious condition that must out of moral conscience be treated at once at huge expense. You may stick a bill in their pocket on their way out (if they survive), but chances are they can't really pay it, incurring a cost on the system anyway. It's not very efficient, not to mention morality.
People have a right to life, and the right to health care comes naturally along as a consequence. People have as much need for health services as they do army and police for instance. And I never hear much complaining about spending on those.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
and they and their families continue to receive these benefits after they leave office, don't they?
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our system...
Whose money was it before it was yours? Someone else's?
I make a decent living and of course no one likes to pay taxes but that's capitalism. The same system that allows you to make what you make and spend what you spend needs to dip into your pockets every once in awhile....that's just the way it is....I'm guessing you aren't old enough to remember the 50% income tax bracket last seen in 1986?????
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
thats not capitalism, thats socialism. get your isms right
exactly....my right winger Rush Limbaugh disciple brother in law is the same way....yes there are lazy people who are on welfare...there are also lazy rich people who get their asses in debt and file bankruptcy...bankruptcy is the rich mans welfare
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2