Obama Health Plan to tax the rich

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

illegal aliens DO pay taxes. They buy food, cars, services....all of which are TAXED. Also, many of them work shitty, low paying jobs BUT since they are illegal many don't file any taxes so they don't get a refund as an american who worked the same job and filed his/her taxes would get all of their taxes paid given back to them

the very high majority of taxes come from payroll taxes...which they do not pay. I'm all for illegal aliens becoming legal. I dont want to kick anyone out for wanting to work. lets make them legal, even the playing field. what I dont want to do is pick up the majority of their tab for using public services and healthcare.

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

or, they can pay taxes like everyone else. there's a novice idea eh?

and they do, everything they buy is taxed as well as their pay checks, unless they are paid under the table, in which case they still pay sales tax

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

illegal aliens DO pay taxes. They buy food, cars, services....all of which are TAXED. Also, many of them work shitty, low paying jobs BUT since they are illegal many don't file any taxes so they don't get a refund as an american who worked the same job and filed his/her taxes would get all of their taxes paid given back to them

the very high majority of taxes come from payroll taxes...which they do not pay. I'm all for illegal aliens becoming legal. I dont want to kick anyone out for wanting to work. lets make them legal, even the playing field. what I dont want to do is pick up the majority of their tab for using public services and healthcare.

actually tons of them work and receive paychecks/W-2's using false Social security numbers....then they never file tax returns because the IRS can pick up on the false SSN so the IRS gets to keep all the money they paid in since they can't file a return to get a refund

Pepe Silvia

ajedigecko wrote:

or here is another idea...........have the elected officials from both parties pay their taxes.

they do, don't they?

we should stop giving tax payer money to companies like Halliburton and Kellog, Brown & Root when they never pay any taxes

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

actually tons of them work and receive paychecks/W-2's using false Social security numbers....then they never file tax returns because the IRS can pick up on the false SSN so the IRS gets to keep all the money they paid in since they can't file a return to get a refund

define "tons"

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

or here is another idea...........have the elected officials from both parties pay their taxes.

they do, don't they?

we should stop giving tax payer money to companies like Halliburton and Kellog, Brown & Root when they never pay any taxes

what taxpayer money do they get?

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

or here is another idea...........have the elected officials from both parties pay their taxes.

they do, don't they?

we should stop giving tax payer money to companies like Halliburton and Kellog, Brown & Root when they never pay any taxes

what taxpayer money do they get?

how were those no bid contracts paid for? how were their bonuses (AFTER they were proven to have committed fraud in billing, feeding out troops spoiled meat and dirty water...) paid for?

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

how were those no bid contracts paid for? how were their bonuses (AFTER they were proven to have committed fraud in billing, feeding out troops spoiled meat and dirty water...) paid for?

O i see what you mean. well yes that is taxpayer money. but its not "given" to them. they are paid in return for whatever work they do.

should we only do business with companies that file taxes in America?

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

how were those no bid contracts paid for? how were their bonuses (AFTER they were proven to have committed fraud in billing, feeding out troops spoiled meat and dirty water...) paid for?

O i see what you mean. well yes that is taxpayer money. but its not "given" to them. they are paid in return for whatever work they do.

ok, the wording of 'given' was incorrect slightly. but the military has proven they have fraudulently billed us and lots of other infractions and yet they still receive bonuses for their work? the fraud, spoiled meat, dirty water, not doing the work they were supposed to....should cause them to be fired, not rewarded!

isn't this like your and JBB11's take on illegals? these receive far more money than illegals do and never pay any taxes because their headquarters are in the Caymans or elsewhere. Halliburton's stock more than doubled for a few years after they received all these no-bid contracts (then the stock split and i have no clue what it's at now)

i say it was slightly incorrect because of it being no-bid contracts to the VP's old company and the administrations investors on top of the shitty work

also, i think i recall reading they have even received some sort of rebates

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

actually tons of them work and receive paychecks/W-2's using false Social security numbers....then they never file tax returns because the IRS can pick up on the false SSN so the IRS gets to keep all the money they paid in since they can't file a return to get a refund

define "tons"

I can tell you that my experience is that the majority of "illegals" pay taxes. I live in Indiana though....not a border state.

Here "illegal" means that they come to town...get a job....use a false SSN when filling out the employer's paperwork (they get picture ID's, false SSN cards...there is a major black market for that stuff) and it generally takes the IRS a few years to notify the employer that "SSN does not match the name provided". By that time the worker has already moved on.

Around here they generally work for a few years to make some $$$ and then go back to Mexico and buy a house with that $$$

and yes if the worker filed a tax return the IRS would jump on it immediately....since they would most likely be asking for a refund the IRS would do an SSN match....they don't do those matches as efficiently when posting employer payroll taxes

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

I can tell you that my experience is that the majority of "illegals" pay taxes. I live in Indiana though....not a border state.

how do you know?

Gern Blansten wrote:

Here "illegal" means that they come to town...get a job....use a false SSN when filling out the employer's paperwork (they get picture ID's, false SSN cards...there is a major black market for that stuff) and it generally takes the IRS a few years to notify the employer that "SSN does not match the name provided". By that time the worker has already moved on.

Around here they generally work for a few years to make some $$$ and then go back to Mexico and buy a house with that $$$

and yes if the worker filed a tax return the IRS would jump on it immediately....since they would most likely be asking for a refund the IRS would do an SSN match....they don't do those matches as efficiently when posting employer payroll taxes

wonderful. I would rather everyone on the same playing field. the guest worker program sounded like a great idea to me. not sure what happen to that.

_

JB811 wrote:

The medical bill should be sent to whatever country she is from. The taxpayers of this country should not have to pay for this criminal. Undocumented immigrants? That is like calling the street corner drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist.

Her delivery is covered by EMSA (Emergency Medical Services for Aliens), which I believe is a federal program through Medicaid. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have such a program to treat people with medical emergencies?

Her child is a United States citizen, and therefore entitled to the same healthcare coverage as any of us - except it will likely be a lifetime of coverage due to his/her disabilities.

I completely disagree with your comparison between undocumented immigrants and drug dealers. Drug dealers harm others for personal gain. Most undocumented immigrants are merely trying to provide for their families. What loving parent would turn down an opportunity to feed their children so as to not upset a portion of people in the richest country in the world (which arguably became that way through the exploitation of other people/countries... but that's another discussion)?

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

I can tell you that my experience is that the majority of "illegals" pay taxes. I live in Indiana though....not a border state.

how do you know?

I looked at a map

_

Gern Blansten wrote:

heh....I'm a small business owner and a business advisor....it's amazing how many right winger clients I have that are starting to see the light...

I have a good friend who's been a conservative ever since I've known him (since high school). He moved to England for work a couple of years ago and recently came back to visit for the first time. After experiencing both systems, he actually said the words... and I had to ask him to repeat himself 3 times to be sure I heard him correctly..... "socialism is the only way to go".

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

I can tell you that my experience is that the majority of "illegals" pay taxes. I live in Indiana though....not a border state.

how do you know?

[/quote]


not trying to answer for Gern but I have known a few people that were here illegally and they all had jobs and received pay checks, so their checks were taxed with no dependents to which they never received a refund as they never filed taxes and all the goods and services they bought were obviously taxed.

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

I can tell you that my experience is that the majority of "illegals" pay taxes. I live in Indiana though....not a border state.

how do you know?

I looked at a map

thank you for the sarcasm. quite the mouth on you. I mean, how do you know the "majority" of illegals pay taxes in your area. do you ask them? do you take polls?

ajedigecko

does anyone know the ramifications at to why the government does not go after the businesses that employ the illegal immigrants?

i can understand why illegal immigrants want to work..........and i am thankful for the work they do, i just want them and the business owners to follow the laws that are in place. we do not need to create more law, just follow the law that we already have.

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

thank you for the sarcasm. quite the mouth on you. I mean, how do you know the "majority" of illegals pay taxes in your area. do you ask them? do you take polls?

dude I said "in my experience"....I work with many small business owners...many of which hire the hispanics that have moved into town

they are very hard workers...one landscaping guy will hire nothing but friends of his hispanic workers that get vouched for because they
1. always show up for work
2. they don't bitch about work
3. they do good work

the media has convinced you that the majority of employers hire "illegals" but I'm guessing that isn't accurate from what I've seen

Gern Blansten

ajedigecko wrote:

does anyone know the ramifications at to why the government does not go after the businesses that employ the illegal immigrants?

i can understand why illegal immigrants want to work..........and i am thankful for the work they do, i just want them and the business owners to follow the laws that are in place. we do not need to create more law, just follow the law that we already have.

I think they do go after them but since there is no reporting of their wages/compensation there is no "trail" back to the employer

There are two different scenarios here
1. Business knowingly hires an illegal
2. Business unknowingly hires an illegal

#1 I describe above

For #2, the IRS will notify the employer of a bad SSN but by then the worker is long gone. THe employer hasn't done anything wrong here because he/she was presented with false documents...most of those hispanic guys come to the USA to make $40,000 that they can take back home and buy a real nice house.

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

dude I said "in my experience"....I work with many small business owners...many of which hire the hispanics that have moved into town

I know what you said. but you didnt say you work with many small business owners. calm down.

Gern Blansten wrote:

they are very hard workers...one landscaping guy will hire nothing but friends of his hispanic workers that get vouched for because they
1. always show up for work
2. they don't bitch about work
3. they do good work

ok so? whats your point? no one is disputing hispanics work ethic

Gern Blansten wrote:

the media has convinced you that the majority of employers hire "illegals" but I'm guessing that isn't accurate from what I've seen

LOL the media convinced me? what is it with you are your attitude?

my most estimates there are about 20 million illegal immigrants in this country. how many of them work and pay income tax is unclear because the fed does not keep tallies, for obvious reasons.

its safe to say that millions of them work and get paid cash. I'm all for every single immigrant working and making a better life. but they should do so legally. its even in their best interest to to this as they would then become eligible to social security.

Gern Blansten

Gern Blansten wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

You need to stop posting. All these health care professionals and small business owners offering personal experience on the matter and saying national heatlh care would benefit them... it's making it increasingly hard for the boys-who-cry-socialism to keep making their faux-arguments that this would kill health care and small businesses.

heh....I'm a small business owner and a business advisor....it's amazing how many right winger clients I have that are starting to see the light...

I guess you didn't see it...

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

You need to stop posting. All these health care professionals and small business owners offering personal experience on the matter and saying national heatlh care would benefit them... it's making it increasingly hard for the boys-who-cry-socialism to keep making their faux-arguments that this would kill health care and small businesses.

heh....I'm a small business owner and a business advisor....it's amazing how many right winger clients I have that are starting to see the light...

I guess you didn't see it...

no I didnt. now lose the fucking attitude, seriously.

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

no I didnt. now lose the fucking attitude, seriously.

ok

gimmesometruth27

Gern Blansten wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

no I didnt. now lose the fucking attitude, seriously.

ok

in case you are new around here , be careful. jlew is the Board Lord.

Gern Blansten

he does have an impressive post count

jlew24asu

are you done yet?


here is a good comments from doctors showing both sides.

http://familydoctormag.com/doctors-offi ... -cons.html

ajedigecko

everyone around here is ok in my book.........we may not all agree on each topic, but that is what makes it cool.

you may say fuck off in one topic..........and then give hugs in another.

i like it around here.

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

are you done yet?


here is a good comments from doctors showing both sides.

http://familydoctormag.com/doctors-offi ... -cons.html

I actually don't favor Obama's plan....I think he sold us short

I advocate universal coverage. The World Health Organization ranks the USA 37th as far as our health care system is concerned. France is ranked #1....England and Canada are both ranked higher than the USA.

My argument is way too involved to be posted here but if you look at all of the profit levels that exist in our current system you would see billions of dollars being run through our system that doesn't belong there if the objective is to provide health care to human beings.

The capitalists would argue that those profits are necessary to create tens of thousands of jobs (billing clerks, insurance agents, non medical staff, etc.) and that is true but it prevents us from providing affordable care.

I refuse to accept that a general practitioner (I have them as clients) can make $450,000 per year by doing little more than writing prescriptions. No surgery, no emergency medicine, just going office to office diagnosing aches and pains. One client is my doctor and I find it very disturbing that I receive absolutely no advice from him at all. I've been trained to only go see him when I need to....I've been left to fend for myself as to what types of preventative care I should receive.

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

I actually don't favor Obama's plan....I think he sold us short

I advocate universal coverage. The World Health Organization ranks the USA 37th as far as our health care system is concerned. France is ranked #1....England and Canada are both ranked higher than the USA.

those rankings are almost a decade old. did you know that? they stopped doing these rankings in 2000.

Gern Blansten wrote:

My argument is way too involved to be posted here but if you look at all of the profit levels that exist in our current system you would see billions of dollars being run through our system that doesn't belong there if the objective is to provide health care to human beings.

unfortunately people don't work from free. and if the government ran things you'd probably see trillions of dollars that dont belong there. because once the government starts something, they rarely stop. much more money will be wasted.

Gern Blansten wrote:

The capitalists would argue that those profits are necessary to create tens of thousands of jobs (billing clerks, insurance agents, non medical staff, etc.) and that is true but it prevents us from providing affordable care.

well thats only partly true. It's mostly because we pay hospitals and doctors more than most other countries do. We rely more on costly specialists, who overuse advanced technologies, like CT scans and M.R.I. machines, and who resort to costly surgical or medical procedures a lot more than doctors in other countries do. We are a wealthy nation and act like it.

Gern Blansten wrote:

I refuse to accept that a general practitioner (I have them as clients) can make $450,000 per year by doing little more than writing prescriptions. No surgery, no emergency medicine, just going office to office diagnosing aches and pains.

the average salary of a general practitioner in this country is around $100k. sounds perfectly fair to me considering the amount of schooling that is required.

Gern Blansten wrote:

One client is my doctor and I find it very disturbing that I receive absolutely no advice from him at all.

so find a new doctor

Gern Blansten wrote:

I've been trained to only go see him when I need to....I've been left to fend for myself as to what types of preventative care I should receive.

good! do some research. preventative care is not too hard to figure out. you can probably find it in a quick google search or wedMD.com

Gern Blansten

average salaries for RN's are approaching $80K...where are you getting this $100K number?