Obama Health Plan to tax the rich

Gern Blansten

scb wrote:

JB811 wrote:

I've said before that I would be for some type of system for our poor. However there must be guarantees that illegal aliens will not be able to participate.

That reminds me of a story: We had a patient where I work who gave birth to her 3rd child and wanted her tubes tied. We couldn't do it because she's undocumented and therefore has no access to insurance. So she was put on a less expensive, less effective method of birth control. Fast forward a few years and she comes back - pregnant. She had an extremely complicated pregnancy and ended up having a c-section and a baby with lots of problems. She is told that it would be very dangerous for her to ever have another baby. Again, she wants her tubes tied and we can't do it because undocumented immigrants are not able to participate in our health system for the poor.

Now I know it would be absolutely outrageous for any of our hard-earned American dollars to be used for providing health care for another human being who... *gasp*... hasn't completed the proper paperwork. :roll: But guess who is now paying WAY, WAY more money to cover her complicated pregnancy & childbbirth - not to mention healthcare for her unintended child for rest of its life - when they could have just forked out much less for a tubal to begin with? That's right... us and our hard-earned American dollars.

good story...

the same situation pops up with all uninsured Americans....they WILL get the care they need at some point and we will pay for it...but if we paid for preventative care NOW we would pay less in the long run

socialize health care NOW

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

what's really scary is that health care costs exceed 8% of a businesses payroll anyway....I would immediately cease health insurance benefits and pay the 8% gladly

our gov't at work....health care is a right....socialized care now

is eating a right?

soulsinging

Gern Blansten wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

This bill will hurt small businesses.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124759535535340189.html

Small Business Faces Big Bite

House Health Bill Penalizes All but Tiniest Employers for Not Providing Insurance

WASHINGTON -- House Democrats on Tuesday unveiled sweeping health-care legislation that would hit all but the smallest businesses with a penalty equal to 8% of payroll if they fail to provide health insurance to workers.

This, on the other hand is appalling, and a perfect illustration of why national health care is a good idea... we should stop burdening businesses with taking on the health care costs of their workers.

what's really scary is that health care costs exceed 8% of a businesses payroll anyway....I would immediately cease health insurance benefits and pay the 8% gladly

our gov't at work....health care is a right....socialized care now

You need to stop posting. All these health care professionals and small business owners offering personal experience on the matter and saying national heatlh care would benefit them... it's making it increasingly hard for the boys-who-cry-socialism to keep making their faux-arguments that this would kill health care and small businesses.

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

nope, the money you pay is stolen as well. the vast majority of us are over taxed.

great, let's stop paying taxes and disband the government...those fuckers keep stealing from me...

overreact much?

I'll take lower taxes and less government anyday

typical...you're the one claiming money paid in taxes is "stolen" money, then go on to say I'm overreacting...

I'm simply following your flawed logic...funny how that doesn't work for you...

inmytree

prfctlefts wrote:

Well maybe so But I for one dont want Obama care and you people are nuts if you think our healthcare system wont be in the shitter if this passes.

Don't get me wrong I realize that healthcare cost are thru the roof for some people,take my moms for instance she pays $400.00 a month through her employer she's 59 doesn't smoke and is in good health.

I guess the free-market system is working just fine for your Mom...right...?

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

typical...you're the one claiming money paid in taxes is "stolen" money, then go on to say I'm overreacting...

I'm simply following your flawed logic...funny how that doesn't work for you...

my logic isnt flawed. the funding for Obama's healthcare plan is being stolen from the rich. if people were taxed across the board, then yea if might be a little more fair. typical response from you though as you rarely provide actual debate. just little hit and run sarcastic one liners.

Gern Blansten

soulsinging wrote:

You need to stop posting. All these health care professionals and small business owners offering personal experience on the matter and saying national heatlh care would benefit them... it's making it increasingly hard for the boys-who-cry-socialism to keep making their faux-arguments that this would kill health care and small businesses.

heh....I'm a small business owner and a business advisor....it's amazing how many right winger clients I have that are starting to see the light...

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

typical...you're the one claiming money paid in taxes is "stolen" money, then go on to say I'm overreacting...

I'm simply following your flawed logic...funny how that doesn't work for you...

my logic isnt flawed. the funding for Obama's healthcare plan is being stolen from the rich. if people were taxed across the board, then yea if might be a little more fair. typical response from you though as you rarely provide actual debate. just little hit and run sarcastic one liners.

the rich pay more in our system....they always have because they have the "wherewithal to pay"

you'd better get off here and go listen to Rush Limbaugh before you start to learn something

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

typical...you're the one claiming money paid in taxes is "stolen" money, then go on to say I'm overreacting...

I'm simply following your flawed logic...funny how that doesn't work for you...

my logic isnt flawed. the funding for Obama's healthcare plan is being stolen from the rich. if people were taxed across the board, then yea if might be a little more fair. typical response from you though as you rarely provide actual debate. just little hit and run sarcastic one liners.

oh, it is flawed...plain and simple...let's look at it...you clam taxes = stolen money...I didn't say that, you did...how many paragraphs do I need to write to explain that your wrong in your line of thinking...I know you're using the word "stolen" to emphasize some silly notion you have...I understand it may be frustrating to you when I take your flawed logic and apply it to other things...If you say money is being stolen by way of paying taxes then why not do away with the gov't...after all, you say they are criminals, because criminals steal money, right?...

also, you imply that when the "rich" pay taxes the money is "stolen"...so, I would assume that when the "non-rich" pay taxes that money is also stolen money...right...?

and I don't want to fund criminals...do you...?

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

the rich pay more in our system....they always have because they have the "wherewithal to pay"

so everytime we need something, we should just take it from the rich?

Gern Blansten wrote:

you'd better get off here and go listen to Rush Limbaugh before you start to learn something

not sure what this even means, but maybe you should not start out with personal attacks.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

typical...you're the one claiming money paid in taxes is "stolen" money, then go on to say I'm overreacting...

I'm simply following your flawed logic...funny how that doesn't work for you...

my logic isnt flawed. the funding for Obama's healthcare plan is being stolen from the rich. if people were taxed across the board, then yea if might be a little more fair. typical response from you though as you rarely provide actual debate. just little hit and run sarcastic one liners.

Stealing is taking without consent. The rich consent by availing themselves of the advantages of American life and law and casting votes for representatives that make these decisions. They know this. You can call it what you want, but stealing is a cheap emotional ploy and you know it.

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

oh, it is flawed...plain and simple...let's look at it...you clam taxes = stolen money...I didn't say that, you did...

no I didnt. I said the MORE taxes the rich have to pay for this particular plan is being stolen. they, and only they, are being forced to pay for this.

inmytree wrote:

how many paragraphs do I need to write to explain that your wrong in your line of thinking...I know you're using the word "stolen" to emphasize some silly notion you have...I understand it may be frustrating to you when I take your flawed logic and apply it to other things...If you say money is being stolen by way of paying taxes then why not do away with the gov't...after all, you say they are criminals, because criminals steal money, right?...

because I never said I want to do away with government. you did. what I do want is government and taxation to be fair.

inmytree wrote:

also, you imply that when the "rich" pay taxes the money is "stolen"...so, I would assume that when the "non-rich" pay taxes that money is also stolen money...right...?

no, not right. stop assuming.

inmytree wrote:

and I don't want to fund criminals...do you...?

its seriously like debating with a child. grow up

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

Stealing is taking without consent. The rich consent by availing themselves of the advantages of American life and law and casting votes for representatives that make these decisions. They know this. You can call it what you want, but stealing is a cheap emotional ploy and you know it.

I'd bet most of the rich in this country vote republican or libertarian. so no, they are not consenting to having more and more money taken from them.

were the rich asked if they would fund health care?

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

the rich pay more in our system....they always have because they have the "wherewithal to pay"

so everytime we need something, we should just take it from the rich?

No, but when we as a society deem that for our social stability we need the government to provide certain services, the burden of those services should be allocated in a manner that fairly burdens this to the extent they can bear it. Thus, the poor pay nothing, the middle class pay something, and the wealthy pay more. If you don't like it, you can move back to feudal England where the rich paid nothing and the taxes were borne entirely by the poor... that worked pretty well I hear.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Stealing is taking without consent. The rich consent by availing themselves of the advantages of American life and law and casting votes for representatives that make these decisions. They know this. You can call it what you want, but stealing is a cheap emotional ploy and you know it.

I'd bet most of the rich in this country vote republican or libertarian. so no, they are not consenting to having more and more money taken from them.

were the rich asked if they would fund health care?

So you're actually saying that anytime an elected official enacts a law that harms me, and I didn't vote for them, that person is a criminal?

The rich have republican reps in congress to represent their views, and they can always vote the people they don't like out by persuading their fellow citizens it's in their best interests. They consent when they choose to remain here and subject themselves to American law. Furthermore, they consent when they take advantage of American law to form corporations and increase the profits and buy stock and any other of the hundreds of advantages being American gave them that helped the GET rich. So don't cry to me when they're asked to give something back for the benefits they received.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

So you're actually saying that anytime an elected official enacts a law that harms me, and I didn't vote for them, that person is a criminal?

damn well should be. I sure hope we never have elected officials enact laws that actually harm you.

soulsinging wrote:

The rich have republican reps in congress to represent their views, and they can always vote the people they don't like out by persuading their fellow citizens it's in their best interests.

not quite. dems have a super majority. the right or anyone, have virtually NO voice in this country right now.

soulsinging wrote:

They consent when they choose to remain here and subject themselves to American law. Furthermore, they consent when they take advantage of American law to form corporations and increase the profits and buy stock and any other of the hundreds of advantages being American gave them that helped the GET rich. So don't cry to me when they're asked to give something back for the benefits they received.

lol, yea ok. lets just spread the wealth around. its only fair. and the America way!

inmytree

oh, the irony..you said stolen

jlew24asu wrote:

ok course you are. you aren't one of those who will have (more) money stolen from them

oh well... :roll:

jlew24asu

inmytree wrote:

oh, the irony..you said stolen

jlew24asu wrote:

ok course you are. you aren't one of those who will have (more) money stolen from them

oh well... :roll:

stolen, taken, forced. call it what you will.

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

were the rich asked if they would fund health care?

wait, what...? now the "rich" need to "asked" if they want to pay taxes....my, aren't they special...

to elaborate...I find it disheartening that someone would support the idea that a special class of folks need to be asked to pay taxes simply based on there net worth...it's a shame that something as important as health care turns into a debate about how special the wealthy are...for the record, I have never been asked whether or not I'd be willing to pay taxes...perhaps you have, and if so, could I get the contact information of the person you spoke to...I'd like to have a conversation with them, as well...thanks for your help...

inmytree

jlew24asu wrote:

inmytree wrote:

oh, the irony..you said stolen

jlew24asu wrote:

ok course you are. you aren't one of those who will have (more) money stolen from them

oh well... :roll:

stolen, taken, forced. call it what you will.

I call it "paying taxes"...