Obama Health Plan to tax the rich

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

So you're actually saying that anytime an elected official enacts a law that harms me, and I didn't vote for them, that person is a criminal?

damn well should be. I sure hope we never have elected officials enact laws that actually harm you.

soulsinging wrote:

The rich have republican reps in congress to represent their views, and they can always vote the people they don't like out by persuading their fellow citizens it's in their best interests.

not quite. dems have a super majority. the right or anyone, have virtually NO voice in this country right now.

I'm gonna use that one on the bar. Shit, I should've used it when I got busted for drunk driving... no your honor, I broke no laws, THEY robbed ME of my right to drive drunk when they passed the law criminalizing it... cos I never voted for that guy.

The dems would not have a super majority if the republicans hadn't done such a shit job of responding to the needs and desires of the American people that they got voted out en masse. This is what the rich never understand... you're outnumbered. It's in your best interest to be generous and logical and share just enough power and wealth to keep the masses docile. Otherwise, you end up here... since you won't share, we'll get our numbers together and take it... at least we do it now by voting and taxing instead of violent revolution. You may lose your house in the Hamptons, but you keep your head.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

since you won't share, we'll get our numbers together and take it...

or something like this...

since you won't share, we'll get our numbers together and steal it...


count me out. I'm all for people keeping the money they earn.

ajedigecko

it will be interesting to hear the voices of the hollywood elite and their views on paying more taxes..........

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

since you won't share, we'll get our numbers together and take it...

or something like this...

since you won't share, we'll get our numbers together and steal it...

count me out. I'm all for people keeping the money they earn.

It's only stealing if it's illegal. You're starting to sound like onelongsong.

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

since you won't share, we'll get our numbers together and take it...

or something like this...

since you won't share, we'll get our numbers together and steal it...

count me out. I'm all for people keeping the money they earn.

It's only stealing if it's illegal. You're starting to sound like onelongsong.

doesn't matter. I still think its a scary notion and statement....and completely unfair and unamerican. if you work hard, innovate, create, and become wealthy...you shouldn't be forced to give it to a bunch of people who "banded together and took it"

RIP OLS

ajedigecko

or here is another idea...........have the elected officials from both parties pay their taxes.

Pepe Silvia

prfctlefts wrote:

why dont you folks that are for Obama care go and ask some Canadians how its working out for them ? Im really shocked why some people would want the gov. running health care.

And If I choose not to get health Insurance I'll get fined :evil: WTF kinda shit is that. You call that freedom? :roll: I call it socialism..

aren't there more uninsured americans than the entire population of Canada?

here's some stats about Canada's health care
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0qPYkfN ... r_embedded

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

Commy wrote:

JB811 wrote:

For everyone that wants government run health care ask the Vets how theirs works for them.

I am against this.

think i'll ask the French, that's how it SHOULD be done.

first of all, France and America are two VERY different countries. 60 mil vs 300 mil. also, does France have millions of illegal aliens living within its borders? I really dont know but I doubt it. In America, tax payers are and will be forced to pick up their tab as well. most importantly, we can not afford UHC. taxs will eventually have to go up across the board. the rich can not fund us forever...they don't have enough money.

secondly, I wouldnt call France's system perfect or a model by which we should follow.

http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04 ... ld-france/

this would most certainly have to happen here...

Funding. Most of the funding is from a 13.55% payroll tax (employers pay 12.8%, individuals pay 0.75%). There is a 5.25% general social contribution tax on income as well. Thus, there is an approximately a 18.8% on employees for health insurance. There are also dedicated taxes which are assessed on tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceutical company revenues.

...the program is threatened by increasing costs and may be forced to resort to rationing in the future.”

illegal aliens DO pay taxes. They buy food, cars, services....all of which are TAXED. Also, many of them work shitty, low paying jobs BUT since they are illegal many don't file any taxes so they don't get a refund as an american who worked the same job and filed his/her taxes would get all of their taxes paid given back to them

Pepe Silvia

prfctlefts wrote:

Well the consequences that the elderly are feeling from their program are this, limited colonoscopies have led to a 25% higher rate of colon cancer and a ban on the use of two best chemotherapies are part of the reason why 42% of canadians die with colon cancer die while 31% of americans who have access to these 2 medications survive the disease.

Honestly I don't know what the answer is but I do know this much.Today 80,000 doctors struggle to treat adequately the 250 million americans who have insurance .Obama will add 50 million more to their case load with no expansion the number of doctors and nurses . His plan will reduce their numbers by lowering reimbursement rates and imposing bureaucrats above them who will force medical decisions down their throats. fewer doctors will have to treat more patients . The inevitable result will be rationing

wait....42% of Canadians die and 31% of Americans live....doesn't that mean 69% of Americans die from it? and isn't 69 more than 42??

Pepe Silvia

soulsinging wrote:

My biggest beef with the current legislation is it looks like a hugely expensive bandaid that will solve none of the underlying problems because it cowtows too much to entrenched interests. It's a piecemeal plan with tons of holes that will take years of patchwork fixing to administer effectively, and the most problematic areas of current problems will not be touched by it.

isn't this politics 101?

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

illegal aliens DO pay taxes. They buy food, cars, services....all of which are TAXED. Also, many of them work shitty, low paying jobs BUT since they are illegal many don't file any taxes so they don't get a refund as an american who worked the same job and filed his/her taxes would get all of their taxes paid given back to them

the very high majority of taxes come from payroll taxes...which they do not pay. I'm all for illegal aliens becoming legal. I dont want to kick anyone out for wanting to work. lets make them legal, even the playing field. what I dont want to do is pick up the majority of their tab for using public services and healthcare.

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

or, they can pay taxes like everyone else. there's a novice idea eh?

and they do, everything they buy is taxed as well as their pay checks, unless they are paid under the table, in which case they still pay sales tax

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

illegal aliens DO pay taxes. They buy food, cars, services....all of which are TAXED. Also, many of them work shitty, low paying jobs BUT since they are illegal many don't file any taxes so they don't get a refund as an american who worked the same job and filed his/her taxes would get all of their taxes paid given back to them

the very high majority of taxes come from payroll taxes...which they do not pay. I'm all for illegal aliens becoming legal. I dont want to kick anyone out for wanting to work. lets make them legal, even the playing field. what I dont want to do is pick up the majority of their tab for using public services and healthcare.

actually tons of them work and receive paychecks/W-2's using false Social security numbers....then they never file tax returns because the IRS can pick up on the false SSN so the IRS gets to keep all the money they paid in since they can't file a return to get a refund

Pepe Silvia

ajedigecko wrote:

or here is another idea...........have the elected officials from both parties pay their taxes.

they do, don't they?

we should stop giving tax payer money to companies like Halliburton and Kellog, Brown & Root when they never pay any taxes

jlew24asu

Gern Blansten wrote:

actually tons of them work and receive paychecks/W-2's using false Social security numbers....then they never file tax returns because the IRS can pick up on the false SSN so the IRS gets to keep all the money they paid in since they can't file a return to get a refund

define "tons"

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

or here is another idea...........have the elected officials from both parties pay their taxes.

they do, don't they?

we should stop giving tax payer money to companies like Halliburton and Kellog, Brown & Root when they never pay any taxes

what taxpayer money do they get?

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

or here is another idea...........have the elected officials from both parties pay their taxes.

they do, don't they?

we should stop giving tax payer money to companies like Halliburton and Kellog, Brown & Root when they never pay any taxes

what taxpayer money do they get?

how were those no bid contracts paid for? how were their bonuses (AFTER they were proven to have committed fraud in billing, feeding out troops spoiled meat and dirty water...) paid for?

jlew24asu

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

how were those no bid contracts paid for? how were their bonuses (AFTER they were proven to have committed fraud in billing, feeding out troops spoiled meat and dirty water...) paid for?

O i see what you mean. well yes that is taxpayer money. but its not "given" to them. they are paid in return for whatever work they do.

should we only do business with companies that file taxes in America?

Pepe Silvia

jlew24asu wrote:

I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

how were those no bid contracts paid for? how were their bonuses (AFTER they were proven to have committed fraud in billing, feeding out troops spoiled meat and dirty water...) paid for?

O i see what you mean. well yes that is taxpayer money. but its not "given" to them. they are paid in return for whatever work they do.

ok, the wording of 'given' was incorrect slightly. but the military has proven they have fraudulently billed us and lots of other infractions and yet they still receive bonuses for their work? the fraud, spoiled meat, dirty water, not doing the work they were supposed to....should cause them to be fired, not rewarded!

isn't this like your and JBB11's take on illegals? these receive far more money than illegals do and never pay any taxes because their headquarters are in the Caymans or elsewhere. Halliburton's stock more than doubled for a few years after they received all these no-bid contracts (then the stock split and i have no clue what it's at now)

i say it was slightly incorrect because of it being no-bid contracts to the VP's old company and the administrations investors on top of the shitty work

also, i think i recall reading they have even received some sort of rebates

Gern Blansten

jlew24asu wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

actually tons of them work and receive paychecks/W-2's using false Social security numbers....then they never file tax returns because the IRS can pick up on the false SSN so the IRS gets to keep all the money they paid in since they can't file a return to get a refund

define "tons"

I can tell you that my experience is that the majority of "illegals" pay taxes. I live in Indiana though....not a border state.

Here "illegal" means that they come to town...get a job....use a false SSN when filling out the employer's paperwork (they get picture ID's, false SSN cards...there is a major black market for that stuff) and it generally takes the IRS a few years to notify the employer that "SSN does not match the name provided". By that time the worker has already moved on.

Around here they generally work for a few years to make some $$$ and then go back to Mexico and buy a house with that $$$

and yes if the worker filed a tax return the IRS would jump on it immediately....since they would most likely be asking for a refund the IRS would do an SSN match....they don't do those matches as efficiently when posting employer payroll taxes