this is, by far, the best post on this thread.
i meant to comment the other day, b/c i seriously laughed my ass off when i read it...but i was running....
really good stuff.
i am sure the extra $100 a month my husband and i now have to shell out for our joint health insurance due to costs.....deductibles/premiums being raised AGAIN....will hurt out bottomline a helluva lot more than 1% on someone earning 350,000+ a year.
and yea, i get it....but they have no 'choice' in it. will neith do i fucking' do!
nor the countless people who cannot AFFORD any coverage. plenty of people who work hard every day, just happen to work for companies who don't offer ANY coverage, etc. i am just sick and tired of everyone just assuming it's the 'lazy' looking for a 'free ride'....get the fuck over it. those 44 million uninsured? yea... a LOT of em, probably most of em...work 'harder' than many of us, but a lot less fortunate. american citizens like you or i....just a lot less fortunate. yea...the MAJORITY of us are just a layoff away from being uninsured.....and gawd forbid something happned to us then....please.
A flat tax or National sales tax is horribly unfair to the poor....doesn't work in our economy
Why because then they buy what they can afford and not live above their means?
no...because they currently pay no income tax so you would force them to pay a tax that our current system says they don't make enough to warrant paying
Why because then they buy what they can afford and not live above their means?
no...because they currently pay no income tax so you would force them to pay a tax that our current system says they don't make enough to warrant paying
So they shouldn't pull their own weight?
How is working your ass off for low wages and no healthcare so others can become rich off the fruits of your labor not pulling your own weight?
Let's look at them as work animals, if you prefer, since that might fit more in line with some people's attitudes about the working poor..... If you had a mule to help plow your fields, would you not provide for its health... just, if nothing else, to help secure your own profits? Even if it doesn't make moral/humanitarian sense to some people, it should make economic sense.
But if you look at the most successful economies in history you will find progressive taxation and moderate redistribution of wealth.
such as?
G8
or if you prefer in the US, the greatest period of sustained economic growth in history occurred for the thirty years after WWII when marginal rates were at their highest
How is working your ass off for low wages and no healthcare so others can become rich off the fruits of your labor not pulling your own weight?
Let's look at them as work animals, if you prefer, since that might fit more in line with some people's attitudes about the working poor..... If you had a mule to help plow your fields, would you not provide for its health... just, if nothing else, to help secure your own profits? Even if it doesn't make moral/humanitarian sense to some people, it should make economic sense.
Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.
Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.
I'd be willing to bet you are serious here. you'd be perfectly fine with a few lazy ignorant red necks from the south being passed by for free healthcare. or were you just kidding then
Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.
I'd be willing to bet you are serious here. you'd be perfectly fine with a few lazy ignorant red necks from the south being passed by for free healthcare. or were you just kidding then
Partly. The argument that it's in the interests of the rich to keep workers healthy doesn't work, because it isn't. It's cheaper for them to replace dead workers than it is to pay to keep them healthy. From the capitalist perspective, workers are cheap, fungible goods. It's not like a mule, they're more easily replaced than a mule. Though I do agree with her contention that low-paid unskilled workers pull their weight plenty by virtue of the labor they do that makes the rich get rich, so I agree with scb that it's absurd to act like those workers aren't pulling their weight and thus should just be left without health care if they can't afford it.
As to rednecks, I take the same approach to them that I do to the urban poor... just because some are lazy or ignorant is not grounds to deny them all health care because you're hurting many people that are decent and work very hard. That's the difference between me and conservatives. I'm ok with a few douchebags getting a free ride if it ensures that the decent are taken care of. People are always going to abuse systems. But for conservatives, it really chaps their ass if even ONE loser gets a free ride... it gives them fits! And they'd rather fuck over a broad segment of good, hard-working people than ever run the risk of a loser getting a free ride. Better a hundred innocent victims than one scumbag getting a windfall. They take the same approach to criminal justice and the death penalty.
Quick point of clarification: Rednecks get their name from having red necks from working in the fields all day.... so "lazy redneck" is an oxymoron. Just sayin'....
Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.
I'd be willing to bet you are serious here. you'd be perfectly fine with a few lazy ignorant red necks from the south being passed by for free healthcare. or were you just kidding then
Ignorance and Red Necks are not exclusively Southern phenomenon....as for Mr. SS...his tongue appears to have been planted firmly in his cheek....that being said, the idea or view that he has presented is probably how many capitalists barons really view the workforce. I know this from studying our nation's history and experiencing life on the factory floor. Everyone should be required to spend some time in retail and working in a factory. It can make you a better person. :twisted:
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illnesses, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid.
Medically related bankruptcies have been rising steadily for decades. In 1981, only 8% of families filing for bankruptcy cited a serious medical problem as the reason, while a 2001 study of bankruptcies in five states by the same researchers found that illness or medical bills contributed to 50% of all filings.
This newest, nationwide study, conducted before the start of the current recession by Drs. David Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler of Harvard Medical School, Elizabeth Warren of Harvard Law School and Deborah Thorne, a sociology professor at Ohio University, found that the filers were for the most part solidly middle class before medical disaster hit. Two-thirds owned their homes, and three-fifths had gone to college.
But medically bankrupt families with private insurance reported average out-of-pocket medical bills of $17,749, while the uninsured's bills averaged $26,971. Of the families that started out with insurance but lost it during the course of illnesses, medical bills averaged $22,658.
"For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."
The study underscores President Barack Obama's arguments in calling for health care reform legislation this year. In a recent letter to Democratic Senate leaders, the president said: "Health care reform is not a luxury. It's a necessity we cannot defer. Soaring health care costs make our current course unsustainable. It is unsustainable for our families, whose spiraling premiums and out-of-pocket expenses are pushing them into bankruptcy and forcing them to go without the checkups and prescriptions they need."
The study was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and published online by The American Journal of Medicine. It will appear in the Journal's August print edition. The researchers examined the court records of a random sample of 2,314 bankruptcy filings across the nation during early 2007 and contacted those filers for written explanations. The researchers then followed up with extensive phone interviews of 1,032 of those filers.
They found that a number of medical factors contributed to a family's financial disaster. More than 90% of medically related bankruptcies were caused by high medical bills directly or medical costs that were so high the family was forced to mortgage their home. The remaining 8% went bankrupt because a medical problem caused them to lose income.
The authors were not able to track credit card defaults caused by medical bills, but a 2007 study found that, of low- and middle-income households with credit card debt, 29% used their plastic to pay off medical expenses.
Individuals with diabetes, one of the most common chronic diseases in the U.S., and those with neurological illnesses such as multiple sclerosis had the highest costs, an average of $26,971 and $34,167, respectively. Hospital bills were the largest single expense for half of all medically bankrupt families.
Woolhandler, an advocate of a single-payer health care system, said lawmakers in Washington should reconsider health care reform in light of the study.
"Covering the uninsured isn't enough," she said. "Reform also needs to help families who already have insurance by upgrading their coverage and assuring that they never lose it."
This article was reported by Catherine Arnst for BusinessWeek.
Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.
I'd be willing to bet you are serious here. you'd be perfectly fine with a few lazy ignorant red necks from the south being passed by for free healthcare. or were you just kidding then
Ignorance and Red Necks are not exclusively Southern phenomenon....as for Mr. SS...his tongue appears to have been planted firmly in his cheek....that being said, the idea or view that he has presented is probably how many capitalists barons really view the workforce. I know this from studying our nation's history and experiencing life on the factory floor. Everyone should be required to spend some time in retail and working in a factory. It can make you a better person. :twisted:
Correct. My tongue was in cheek, though I sadly think it is a pretty accurate view of the workforce from the perspective of executives. They're a business expense, not people. And I do think that everyone needs to spend some time in the trenches to truly understand how expendable you are. We all want to believe we're special, and really, none of us are. We're all very easily replaced.
As to rednecks, no doubt it's not a purely southern thing. I live in Ohio and there are plenty of rednecks here, probably more than in the south. Ditto for Indiana... that state is a worthless wasteland.
deductions among other things. I support lower taxes across the board, or a flat tax. I think the government would make more money and people would have more in their pockets.
Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.
I'd be willing to bet you are serious here. you'd be perfectly fine with a few lazy ignorant red necks from the south being passed by for free healthcare. or were you just kidding then
Partly. The argument that it's in the interests of the rich to keep workers healthy doesn't work, because it isn't. It's cheaper for them to replace dead workers than it is to pay to keep them healthy. From the capitalist perspective, workers are cheap, fungible goods. It's not like a mule, they're more easily replaced than a mule. Though I do agree with her contention that low-paid unskilled workers pull their weight plenty by virtue of the labor they do that makes the rich get rich, so I agree with scb that it's absurd to act like those workers aren't pulling their weight and thus should just be left without health care if they can't afford it.
As to rednecks, I take the same approach to them that I do to the urban poor... just because some are lazy or ignorant is not grounds to deny them all health care because you're hurting many people that are decent and work very hard. That's the difference between me and conservatives. I'm ok with a few douchebags getting a free ride if it ensures that the decent are taken care of. People are always going to abuse systems. But for conservatives, it really chaps their ass if even ONE loser gets a free ride... it gives them fits! And they'd rather fuck over a broad segment of good, hard-working people than ever run the risk of a loser getting a free ride. Better a hundred innocent victims than one scumbag getting a windfall. They take the same approach to criminal justice and the death penalty.
for me, its not so much that I care if some get a free ride. I'm fine with that. the problem is that free ride is too expensive for me to afford. in my opinion, UHC will end up costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars we dont have. we would end up being taxed close to 50% or more of our income and pay into a system that would be crap quality for no other reason then the government is running it. a single payer system would bankrupt this country as well as lower the quality of life.
scb
Dude -
(Still LOVE your Avitar). If you don't like your life.....then change it. Will it be easy? Absolutely not! Nothing worthwhile ever is. There is a lot of grant money that will become available soon (via the "Stimulous package....which I opposed.......which no one cares.) However - while these things are available- take advantage. No reason to remain so unhappy with your life. Blame never solves anything. (however. the debate is always fun.... Frustrating, but still fun..........Agreed?)
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated - Gandhi
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
scb
Dude -
(Still LOVE your Avitar). If you don't like your life.....then change it. Will it be easy? Absolutely not! Nothing worthwhile ever is. There is a lot of grant money that will become available soon (via the "Stimulous package....which I opposed.......which no one cares.) However - while these things are available- take advantage. No reason to remain so unhappy with your life. Blame never solves anything. (however. the debate is always fun.... Frustrating, but still fun..........Agreed?)
1. What on earth are you talking about??? :? :? :?
for me, its not so much that I care if some get a free ride. I'm fine with that. the problem is that free ride is too expensive for me to afford. in my opinion, UHC will end up costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars we dont have. we would end up being taxed close to 50% or more of our income and pay into a system that would be crap quality for no other reason then the government is running it. a single payer system would bankrupt this country as well as lower the quality of life.
Fair enough. I think you're wrong about those doomsday scenarios. As scb pointed out in another thread (one in which all the anti-UHC people are conspicuously absent), our current system is already bankrupting us and care quality is already shit and rationed. I don't think the consequences are anywhere near as dire as you claim they would be, and the situation currently is already dire. Something has to give soon, and I've yet to see a workable solution from any of the people that cry 'socialism' anytime any sort of health care reform is proposed.
You kinda make me want to eat my words. Wow! Perhaps you should try once in awhile to accept a compliment. If not - I'm really not qualified to deal with so much hostility. My bad. Ouch!
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated - Gandhi
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
You kinda make me want to eat my words. Wow! Perhaps you should try once in awhile to accept a compliment. If not - I'm really not qualified to deal with so much hostility. My bad. Ouch!
I must have missed the compliment (unless you mean the one about my avitar). As has been established in the other thread, I'm kinda slow.
You kinda make me want to eat my words. Wow! Perhaps you should try once in awhile to accept a compliment. If not - I'm really not qualified to deal with so much hostility. My bad. Ouch!
I must have missed the compliment (unless you mean the one about my avitar). As has been established in the other thread, I'm kinda slow.
Nah - You're not SLOW (DUDE! Ha!) I disagree with so many people here that if I took it personally - I would have driven my car into a tree by now! Ha! I come to this Forum for the debate. I truly take it in stride. It makes me laugh. I'm sure I piss many off as well - thus the ugly responses I get. I still laugh! You should, too!
The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated - Gandhi
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
Nah - You're not SLOW (DUDE! Ha!) I disagree with so many people here that if I took it personally - I would have driven my car into a tree by now! Ha! I come to this Forum for the debate. I truly take it in stride. It makes me laugh. I'm sure I piss many off as well - thus the ugly responses I get. I still laugh! You should, too!
for me, its not so much that I care if some get a free ride. I'm fine with that. the problem is that free ride is too expensive for me to afford. in my opinion, UHC will end up costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars we dont have. we would end up being taxed close to 50% or more of our income and pay into a system that would be crap quality for no other reason then the government is running it. a single payer system would bankrupt this country as well as lower the quality of life.
Fair enough. I think you're wrong about those doomsday scenarios. As scb pointed out in another thread (one in which all the anti-UHC people are conspicuously absent), our current system is already bankrupting us and care quality is already shit and rationed. I don't think the consequences are anywhere near as dire as you claim they would be, and the situation currently is already dire. Something has to give soon, and I've yet to see a workable solution from any of the people that cry 'socialism' anytime any sort of health care reform is proposed.
indeed, and many have said the same....and met with the same resistance.
bottomline, some people are simply against the idea of UHC b/c they think it leaves them with no *choice*.
try to tell them they don't really have choice now, doesn't matter. they still believe they do, most especially for opting out of having healthcare entirely, which sure...it's a choice....just not one i personally would ever understand one willing make. the doomsday predictions will always continue, even if a program were implemented and doomsday did not ensue. some people are just totally against governemtn involvement in healthcare. while i don't personally understand it, fair enough....but my biggest issue with all that is, just SAY it, and stop with the doomsday predictions and the BS that it cant' be done, or we can't afford it, and yada, yada, yada.....
Comments
this is, by far, the best post on this thread.
i meant to comment the other day, b/c i seriously laughed my ass off when i read it...but i was running....
really good stuff.
i am sure the extra $100 a month my husband and i now have to shell out for our joint health insurance due to costs.....deductibles/premiums being raised AGAIN....will hurt out bottomline a helluva lot more than 1% on someone earning 350,000+ a year.
and yea, i get it....but they have no 'choice' in it. will neith do i fucking' do!
nor the countless people who cannot AFFORD any coverage. plenty of people who work hard every day, just happen to work for companies who don't offer ANY coverage, etc. i am just sick and tired of everyone just assuming it's the 'lazy' looking for a 'free ride'....get the fuck over it. those 44 million uninsured? yea... a LOT of em, probably most of em...work 'harder' than many of us, but a lot less fortunate. american citizens like you or i....just a lot less fortunate. yea...the MAJORITY of us are just a layoff away from being uninsured.....and gawd forbid something happned to us then....please.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
So they shouldn't pull their own weight?
How is working your ass off for low wages and no healthcare so others can become rich off the fruits of your labor not pulling your own weight?
Let's look at them as work animals, if you prefer, since that might fit more in line with some people's attitudes about the working poor..... If you had a mule to help plow your fields, would you not provide for its health... just, if nothing else, to help secure your own profits? Even if it doesn't make moral/humanitarian sense to some people, it should make economic sense.
In 2003 Mexico collected 19.5% of GDP, lowest of the thirty countries surveyed by the OECD.
Compare to 24.2% in the US.
G8
or if you prefer in the US, the greatest period of sustained economic growth in history occurred for the thirty years after WWII when marginal rates were at their highest
New Deal economics
Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.
I'd be willing to bet you are serious here. you'd be perfectly fine with a few lazy ignorant red necks from the south being passed by for free healthcare. or were you just kidding then
Partly. The argument that it's in the interests of the rich to keep workers healthy doesn't work, because it isn't. It's cheaper for them to replace dead workers than it is to pay to keep them healthy. From the capitalist perspective, workers are cheap, fungible goods. It's not like a mule, they're more easily replaced than a mule. Though I do agree with her contention that low-paid unskilled workers pull their weight plenty by virtue of the labor they do that makes the rich get rich, so I agree with scb that it's absurd to act like those workers aren't pulling their weight and thus should just be left without health care if they can't afford it.
As to rednecks, I take the same approach to them that I do to the urban poor... just because some are lazy or ignorant is not grounds to deny them all health care because you're hurting many people that are decent and work very hard. That's the difference between me and conservatives. I'm ok with a few douchebags getting a free ride if it ensures that the decent are taken care of. People are always going to abuse systems. But for conservatives, it really chaps their ass if even ONE loser gets a free ride... it gives them fits! And they'd rather fuck over a broad segment of good, hard-working people than ever run the risk of a loser getting a free ride. Better a hundred innocent victims than one scumbag getting a windfall. They take the same approach to criminal justice and the death penalty.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/whats-most-likely-to-bankrupt-you.aspx?page=1
Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illnesses, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid.
Medically related bankruptcies have been rising steadily for decades. In 1981, only 8% of families filing for bankruptcy cited a serious medical problem as the reason, while a 2001 study of bankruptcies in five states by the same researchers found that illness or medical bills contributed to 50% of all filings.
This newest, nationwide study, conducted before the start of the current recession by Drs. David Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler of Harvard Medical School, Elizabeth Warren of Harvard Law School and Deborah Thorne, a sociology professor at Ohio University, found that the filers were for the most part solidly middle class before medical disaster hit. Two-thirds owned their homes, and three-fifths had gone to college.
But medically bankrupt families with private insurance reported average out-of-pocket medical bills of $17,749, while the uninsured's bills averaged $26,971. Of the families that started out with insurance but lost it during the course of illnesses, medical bills averaged $22,658.
"For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, co-payments and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse," said lead author Himmelstein. "Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy."
The study underscores President Barack Obama's arguments in calling for health care reform legislation this year. In a recent letter to Democratic Senate leaders, the president said: "Health care reform is not a luxury. It's a necessity we cannot defer. Soaring health care costs make our current course unsustainable. It is unsustainable for our families, whose spiraling premiums and out-of-pocket expenses are pushing them into bankruptcy and forcing them to go without the checkups and prescriptions they need."
The study was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and published online by The American Journal of Medicine. It will appear in the Journal's August print edition. The researchers examined the court records of a random sample of 2,314 bankruptcy filings across the nation during early 2007 and contacted those filers for written explanations. The researchers then followed up with extensive phone interviews of 1,032 of those filers.
They found that a number of medical factors contributed to a family's financial disaster. More than 90% of medically related bankruptcies were caused by high medical bills directly or medical costs that were so high the family was forced to mortgage their home. The remaining 8% went bankrupt because a medical problem caused them to lose income.
The authors were not able to track credit card defaults caused by medical bills, but a 2007 study found that, of low- and middle-income households with credit card debt, 29% used their plastic to pay off medical expenses.
Individuals with diabetes, one of the most common chronic diseases in the U.S., and those with neurological illnesses such as multiple sclerosis had the highest costs, an average of $26,971 and $34,167, respectively. Hospital bills were the largest single expense for half of all medically bankrupt families.
Woolhandler, an advocate of a single-payer health care system, said lawmakers in Washington should reconsider health care reform in light of the study.
"Covering the uninsured isn't enough," she said. "Reform also needs to help families who already have insurance by upgrading their coverage and assuring that they never lose it."
This article was reported by Catherine Arnst for BusinessWeek.
Published July 15, 2009
Correct. My tongue was in cheek, though I sadly think it is a pretty accurate view of the workforce from the perspective of executives. They're a business expense, not people. And I do think that everyone needs to spend some time in the trenches to truly understand how expendable you are. We all want to believe we're special, and really, none of us are. We're all very easily replaced.
As to rednecks, no doubt it's not a purely southern thing. I live in Ohio and there are plenty of rednecks here, probably more than in the south. Ditto for Indiana... that state is a worthless wasteland.
+1
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
for me, its not so much that I care if some get a free ride. I'm fine with that. the problem is that free ride is too expensive for me to afford. in my opinion, UHC will end up costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars we dont have. we would end up being taxed close to 50% or more of our income and pay into a system that would be crap quality for no other reason then the government is running it. a single payer system would bankrupt this country as well as lower the quality of life.
Dude -
(Still LOVE your Avitar). If you don't like your life.....then change it. Will it be easy? Absolutely not! Nothing worthwhile ever is. There is a lot of grant money that will become available soon (via the "Stimulous package....which I opposed.......which no one cares.) However - while these things are available- take advantage. No reason to remain so unhappy with your life. Blame never solves anything. (however. the debate is always fun.... Frustrating, but still fun..........Agreed?)
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
1. What on earth are you talking about??? :? :? :?
2. I'm a woman, not a dude.
3. I love my avitar too. Thanks.
Fair enough. I think you're wrong about those doomsday scenarios. As scb pointed out in another thread (one in which all the anti-UHC people are conspicuously absent), our current system is already bankrupting us and care quality is already shit and rationed. I don't think the consequences are anywhere near as dire as you claim they would be, and the situation currently is already dire. Something has to give soon, and I've yet to see a workable solution from any of the people that cry 'socialism' anytime any sort of health care reform is proposed.
You kinda make me want to eat my words. Wow! Perhaps you should try once in awhile to accept a compliment. If not - I'm really not qualified to deal with so much hostility. My bad. Ouch!
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
Sure... fair enough.
I must have missed the compliment (unless you mean the one about my avitar). As has been established in the other thread, I'm kinda slow.
Nah - You're not SLOW (DUDE! Ha!) I disagree with so many people here that if I took it personally - I would have driven my car into a tree by now! Ha! I come to this Forum for the debate. I truly take it in stride. It makes me laugh. I'm sure I piss many off as well - thus the ugly responses I get. I still laugh! You should, too!
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
indeed, and many have said the same....and met with the same resistance.
bottomline, some people are simply against the idea of UHC b/c they think it leaves them with no *choice*.
try to tell them they don't really have choice now, doesn't matter. they still believe they do, most especially for opting out of having healthcare entirely, which sure...it's a choice....just not one i personally would ever understand one willing make. the doomsday predictions will always continue, even if a program were implemented and doomsday did not ensue. some people are just totally against governemtn involvement in healthcare. while i don't personally understand it, fair enough....but my biggest issue with all that is, just SAY it, and stop with the doomsday predictions and the BS that it cant' be done, or we can't afford it, and yada, yada, yada.....
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow