Obama Health Plan to tax the rich

soulsinging

tybird wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.

I'd be willing to bet you are serious here. you'd be perfectly fine with a few lazy ignorant red necks from the south being passed by for free healthcare. or were you just kidding then

Ignorance and Red Necks are not exclusively Southern phenomenon....as for Mr. SS...his tongue appears to have been planted firmly in his cheek....that being said, the idea or view that he has presented is probably how many capitalists barons really view the workforce. I know this from studying our nation's history and experiencing life on the factory floor. Everyone should be required to spend some time in retail and working in a factory. It can make you a better person. :twisted:

Correct. My tongue was in cheek, though I sadly think it is a pretty accurate view of the workforce from the perspective of executives. They're a business expense, not people. And I do think that everyone needs to spend some time in the trenches to truly understand how expendable you are. We all want to believe we're special, and really, none of us are. We're all very easily replaced.

As to rednecks, no doubt it's not a purely southern thing. I live in Ohio and there are plenty of rednecks here, probably more than in the south. Ditto for Indiana... that state is a worthless wasteland.

Indifference

JB811 wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

what loopholes are you referring to?

deductions among other things. I support lower taxes across the board, or a flat tax. I think the government would make more money and people would have more in their pockets.

I dream about a flat tax.

+1

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Why would you bother to do that. There are so many unskilled peasants out there that if a few of them drop dead from lack of health care, they're easily and cheaply replaced. It's far more cost effective to just replace them once you've used them up than provide for their long term health. Geez, you act like the workers have some intrinsic value as fellow humans or something. Fucking hippy.

I'd be willing to bet you are serious here. you'd be perfectly fine with a few lazy ignorant red necks from the south being passed by for free healthcare. or were you just kidding then

Partly. The argument that it's in the interests of the rich to keep workers healthy doesn't work, because it isn't. It's cheaper for them to replace dead workers than it is to pay to keep them healthy. From the capitalist perspective, workers are cheap, fungible goods. It's not like a mule, they're more easily replaced than a mule. Though I do agree with her contention that low-paid unskilled workers pull their weight plenty by virtue of the labor they do that makes the rich get rich, so I agree with scb that it's absurd to act like those workers aren't pulling their weight and thus should just be left without health care if they can't afford it.

As to rednecks, I take the same approach to them that I do to the urban poor... just because some are lazy or ignorant is not grounds to deny them all health care because you're hurting many people that are decent and work very hard. That's the difference between me and conservatives. I'm ok with a few douchebags getting a free ride if it ensures that the decent are taken care of. People are always going to abuse systems. But for conservatives, it really chaps their ass if even ONE loser gets a free ride... it gives them fits! And they'd rather fuck over a broad segment of good, hard-working people than ever run the risk of a loser getting a free ride. Better a hundred innocent victims than one scumbag getting a windfall. They take the same approach to criminal justice and the death penalty.

for me, its not so much that I care if some get a free ride. I'm fine with that. the problem is that free ride is too expensive for me to afford. in my opinion, UHC will end up costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars we dont have. we would end up being taxed close to 50% or more of our income and pay into a system that would be crap quality for no other reason then the government is running it. a single payer system would bankrupt this country as well as lower the quality of life.

PearlJain

scb
Dude -
(Still LOVE your Avitar). If you don't like your life.....then change it. Will it be easy? Absolutely not! Nothing worthwhile ever is. There is a lot of grant money that will become available soon (via the "Stimulous package....which I opposed.......which no one cares.) However - while these things are available- take advantage. No reason to remain so unhappy with your life. Blame never solves anything. (however. the debate is always fun.... Frustrating, but still fun..........Agreed?)

_

PearlJain wrote:

scb
Dude -
(Still LOVE your Avitar). If you don't like your life.....then change it. Will it be easy? Absolutely not! Nothing worthwhile ever is. There is a lot of grant money that will become available soon (via the "Stimulous package....which I opposed.......which no one cares.) However - while these things are available- take advantage. No reason to remain so unhappy with your life. Blame never solves anything. (however. the debate is always fun.... Frustrating, but still fun..........Agreed?)

1. What on earth are you talking about??? :? :? :?

2. I'm a woman, not a dude.

3. I love my avitar too. Thanks.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

for me, its not so much that I care if some get a free ride. I'm fine with that. the problem is that free ride is too expensive for me to afford. in my opinion, UHC will end up costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars we dont have. we would end up being taxed close to 50% or more of our income and pay into a system that would be crap quality for no other reason then the government is running it. a single payer system would bankrupt this country as well as lower the quality of life.

Fair enough. I think you're wrong about those doomsday scenarios. As scb pointed out in another thread (one in which all the anti-UHC people are conspicuously absent), our current system is already bankrupting us and care quality is already shit and rationed. I don't think the consequences are anywhere near as dire as you claim they would be, and the situation currently is already dire. Something has to give soon, and I've yet to see a workable solution from any of the people that cry 'socialism' anytime any sort of health care reform is proposed.

PearlJain

'Dude" applies to Females as well......

You kinda make me want to eat my words. Wow! Perhaps you should try once in awhile to accept a compliment. If not - I'm really not qualified to deal with so much hostility. My bad. Ouch!

_

PearlJain wrote:

'Dude" applies to Females as well......

Sure... fair enough.

PearlJain wrote:

You kinda make me want to eat my words. Wow! Perhaps you should try once in awhile to accept a compliment. If not - I'm really not qualified to deal with so much hostility. My bad. Ouch!

I must have missed the compliment (unless you mean the one about my avitar). As has been established in the other thread, I'm kinda slow.

PearlJain

scb wrote:

PearlJain wrote:

'Dude" applies to Females as well......

Sure... fair enough.

PearlJain wrote:

You kinda make me want to eat my words. Wow! Perhaps you should try once in awhile to accept a compliment. If not - I'm really not qualified to deal with so much hostility. My bad. Ouch!

I must have missed the compliment (unless you mean the one about my avitar). As has been established in the other thread, I'm kinda slow.

Nah - You're not SLOW (DUDE! Ha!) I disagree with so many people here that if I took it personally - I would have driven my car into a tree by now! Ha! I come to this Forum for the debate. I truly take it in stride. It makes me laugh. I'm sure I piss many off as well - thus the ugly responses I get. I still laugh! You should, too!

_

PearlJain wrote:

Nah - You're not SLOW (DUDE! Ha!) I disagree with so many people here that if I took it personally - I would have driven my car into a tree by now! Ha! I come to this Forum for the debate. I truly take it in stride. It makes me laugh. I'm sure I piss many off as well - thus the ugly responses I get. I still laugh! You should, too!

decides2dream

soulsinging wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

for me, its not so much that I care if some get a free ride. I'm fine with that. the problem is that free ride is too expensive for me to afford. in my opinion, UHC will end up costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars we dont have. we would end up being taxed close to 50% or more of our income and pay into a system that would be crap quality for no other reason then the government is running it. a single payer system would bankrupt this country as well as lower the quality of life.

Fair enough. I think you're wrong about those doomsday scenarios. As scb pointed out in another thread (one in which all the anti-UHC people are conspicuously absent), our current system is already bankrupting us and care quality is already shit and rationed. I don't think the consequences are anywhere near as dire as you claim they would be, and the situation currently is already dire. Something has to give soon, and I've yet to see a workable solution from any of the people that cry 'socialism' anytime any sort of health care reform is proposed.

indeed, and many have said the same....and met with the same resistance.
bottomline, some people are simply against the idea of UHC b/c they think it leaves them with no *choice*.
try to tell them they don't really have choice now, doesn't matter. they still believe they do, most especially for opting out of having healthcare entirely, which sure...it's a choice....just not one i personally would ever understand one willing make. the doomsday predictions will always continue, even if a program were implemented and doomsday did not ensue. some people are just totally against governemtn involvement in healthcare. while i don't personally understand it, fair enough....but my biggest issue with all that is, just SAY it, and stop with the doomsday predictions and the BS that it cant' be done, or we can't afford it, and yada, yada, yada.....