I just don't think we should affiliate ourselves with anything that has a history of dishonesty and manipulation if we are trying to point people to god. If there ever was a 'Jesus' as depicted in the scriptures, then the church has done well in ruining his reputation. It's a matter of principle. If you want a club to attend to and exchange social graces and good works then call it that, don't call it church where god is meant to be sought [not just given lip-service] and yeshua followed.
Wow. So many words, so many hearts here that speak them.
This is an interesting thread. I never thought that Ed's spirituality was ambiguous. He's on a journey like the rest of us. Whether that is toward or away from God I do not know, and I don't really have to know. He's a human being, and that brings with it a certain amount of joy and pain, trial and victory. It's nice to have companionship through all of that in a world that quite frankly craps on everyone. Perhaps that companionship is in the form of a savior, or in the community of a church, or in the camaraderie of a shared musical experience, or in beer (and I've plenty of those stories too!). It is different for everyone. Life's tapestry is much more fulfilling when shared with others. Others that in some way connect with one another. If I don't know anything else, I know that.
I'm a believer myself. And I don't say that with one shred of pomposity. I've walked the path of Christianity, of Paganism, of Thelema, of Buddhism, of Agnosticism and all of that has led me where I am today - still growing and still learning, still screwing up and still loving life. Personally, I cannot look at my husband, or my 4 beautiful children without being completely awestruck of what God has created. I cannot hike a mountain, traipse through a forest, or dance in the rain without wonder or see human kindness at work without admiration. All of that comes from love, and that is the essence of God.
I'm ok with not knowing exactly how it all came to be or how it will all end. I am comforted in knowing that there is something much bigger than I. Which often brings a hell of a lot more responsibility than not. If there is an absolute in life, here on Earth, then it's LOVE.
If there is an absolute in life, here on Earth, then it's LOVE.
I agree!!!! Absolutely . . .
I haven't read all the responses here, but essentially I think religion can be seen as a framework, a set of man-made rules with which people engage with the wonder of existence. And I think for some people that strict framework is exactly what they need. Exactly. It makes them feel safe and it gives them guidelines and rituals through which to express their spirituality. And they can be incredibly beautiful, these rituals and rules. When they're not oppressing or hurting people, or perpetuating hatred and fear, or claiming to be the 'only way' then they are beautiful. And let's face it, some of the messages are amazing . . . Christ: love your enemy. I mean wow, that's a pretty special idea. Pretty bloody groundbreaking!
But while I don't think EV adheres to a particular framework to be spiritual, I think he's definitely a spiritual person. I remember hearing him say on some concert footage, while quoting Oscar Wilde was it? 'I don't believe in 'God', I believe in something much bigger than that'. So I think he believes in something! Absolutely! The fact that he doesn't want to express his beliefs through a man-made construct doesn't mean he's not spiritual. No one should expect others to engage with existence and spirituality according to the set of rules or the books that work for them.
I personally don't like the word 'God' to describe the consciousness of the Universe (if there is one). Only because the 'God' of the old testament didn't appeal to me as a child. It didn't ring true. So I don't particularly like that name. But I don't begrudge anyone else who wants to use that word . . .
I was talking to my grown-up nephew about this the other day, who at 21 was telling me there is nothing, but science. Nothing else. No afterlife, nor anything but what we can see and hear etc etc. Which I'm not sure even most scientists believe these days, as they unravel just how incredible the building blocks of our reality are . . . but anyway, so I told him that I believe 100% in evolution, and in the perfect laws of physics which created our reality, I believe 100% in the big bang and in science, but just because I believe in all those things, in the physical laws on which our reality is built, that doesn't in any way tell me why the big bang happened! Or why the fuck those laws of physics exist in the first place!!!!! And it made him stop and think, which I thought was nice.
Personally I think the actual fact of existence is A COMPLETE MIRACLE. I mean this reality, where 1 + 1 = 2, and we have gravity, this isn't chaos is it. It works. The laws of physics and mathematics work extremely well. I think the very fact of a reality that is built around these incredibly complicated but beautiful logical laws, in which conscious being such as ourselves can exist, is such a goddam miracle, that anything is possible! ANYTHING. And I think our human minds probably aren't built to be able to understand it completely . . . or we can, but it takes hard work and an EXTREMELY open and flexible mind to get our heads around it.
Sometimes I take issue with Atheism because I see it as another strict set of rules with no flexibility, i.e. 'nothing happens when you die, there is no god etc' because it's like 'you're not dead mate, seriously, how the fuck do you know?' . . . But then at the same time I respect that opinion, I have to don't I? For people to respect mine?
I think when it comes to spirituality, we all have to respect eachother's frameworks and forms of expression, but we should never propose that someone is wrong because they don't adhere to the same set of rules that we do. Spirituality is much deeper and greater and more intangible than that.
So. Ummm. My post was so bloody inspiring that it inspired BinFrog to go and make a Yoda meme about how this fucking thread won't die!!!! Hahaha, awesome!! Thanks BinFrog
Okay, but before I let this thread die a natural death, just let me share a moment where I was struck by the beauty of a religious ritual. I was travelling around Turkey years ago with my best friend, and we were on this yacht trip with some other randoms . . . So one day we stopped in this coastal town for lunch and the call to prayer started up. Well the first thing I noticed was that this particular prayer singer had a GORGEOUS tenor voice, really bloody beautiful, then a few moments later another call to prayer starts up on the other side of the town, and this other guy has an equally amazing voice.
So they're each singing a separate call to prayer from their mosque's miranet, miles from eachother (a common occurance, you'll hear it 5 times a day in Turkey) but with these two singers it's like they're singing in perfect harmony. They're improvising a beautiful duet, an incredible musical dance, between themselves, from opposite sides of the city, over the top of the city. And it was so musical, and I could hear so much joy in it, that it was a moment of true beauty for me. It was fucking magical. And the thing is, they would do the same thing every single day. They would improvise this stunning duet of worship for the whole town 5 times a day.
So yeah, I thought that was pretty fucking cool . . .
Okay, now the thread can die! But only because Yoda is THE SHIZ
So. Ummm. My post was so bloody inspiring that it inspired BinFrog to go and make a Yoda meme about how this fucking thread won't die!!!! Hahaha, awesome!! Thanks BinFrog
Okay, but before I let this thread die a natural death, just let me share a moment where I was struck by the beauty of a religious ritual. I was travelling around Turkey years ago with my best friend, and we were on this yacht trip with some other randoms . . . So one day we stopped in this coastal town for lunch and the call to prayer started up. Well the first thing I noticed was that this particular prayer singer had a GORGEOUS tenor voice, really bloody beautiful, then a few moments later another call to prayer starts up on the other side of the town, and this other guy has an equally amazing voice.
So they're each singing a separate call to prayer from their mosque's miranet, miles from eachother (a common occurance, you'll hear it 5 times a day in Turkey) but with these two singers it's like they're singing in perfect harmony. They're improvising a beautiful duet, an incredible musical dance, between themselves, from opposite sides of the city, over the top of the city. And it was so musical, and I could hear so much joy in it, that it was a moment of true beauty for me. It was fucking magical. And the thing is, they would do the same thing every single day. They would improvise this stunning duet of worship for the whole town 5 times a day.
So yeah, I thought that was pretty fucking cool . . .
Okay, now the thread can die! But only because Yoda is THE SHIZ
Elmo -- I think YOU are THE SHIZ! I truly love your posts. They always put a smile on my face. I have not read back too far in this thread either. And I agree, I was brought up in a protestant church, and although I don't attend regularly, I still try to live my life by the teachings of Jesus. Things like, "love your enemy. I mean wow," really is a special idea. And the really interesting thing is that so many religions hold several of those tenets in common. The whole "do unto others" bit has a similar belief in so many other religions. I read a book in the past 2 or 3 years called, and don't judge a book by its cover, Heaven is for Real. It interested me because it involved a very young boy, 3 at the time, who was really acutely ill. My younger child was really sick starting about age 4, (the cause of which has since been identified and treated, hopefully for good this time.) The family lived in a neighboring state, and came to visit a town very nearby, and went to an insect zoo that my children and I have been to. All of those things made me want to read the book. But in it, the boy talks to his father about family members that died before the boy was born, & he talks to his mother about a child she lost in a miscarriage that he couldn't possibly have known about. He says he met them while he was near death on the operating table. As a nurse, near death experiences fascinate me for a multitude of reasons. Especially recently, because I have lost so many family members in the recent past. So let the thread die if it must. Elmo I would be happy to discuss this further, anytime. You know where I am.
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
Elmo -- I think YOU are THE SHIZ! I truly love your posts. They always put a smile on my face. I have not read back too far in this thread either. And I agree, I was brought up in a protestant church, and although I don't attend regularly, I still try to live my life by the teachings of Jesus. Things like, "love your enemy. I mean wow," really is a special idea. And the really interesting thing is that so many religions hold several of those tenets in common. The whole "do unto others" bit has a similar belief in so many other religions. I read a book in the past 2 or 3 years called, and don't judge a book by its cover, Heaven is for Real. It interested me because it involved a very young boy, 3 at the time, who was really acutely ill. My younger child was really sick starting about age 4, (the cause of which has since been identified and treated, hopefully for good this time.) The family lived in a neighboring state, and came to visit a town very nearby, and went to an insect zoo that my children and I have been to. All of those things made me want to read the book. But in it, the boy talks to his father about family members that died before the boy was born, & he talks to his mother about a child she lost in a miscarriage that he couldn't possibly have known about. He says he met them while he was near death on the operating table. As a nurse, near death experiences fascinate me for a multitude of reasons. Especially recently, because I have lost so many family members in the recent past. So let the thread die if it must. Elmo I would be happy to discuss this further, anytime. You know where I am.
I agree! The life after death stuff is so bloody fascinating! It's FULL ON! There was this article in The Age (Melbourne's best, or most reputable paper) about two years ago, about how out of body experiences of people are being tested in various hospitals around the world. So they're doing stuff like writing things on the floor that can ONLY be seen from a birds eye view before a surgery.....and yeah, these patients who have been under anaesthetic are able to tell the surgery staff what was written because apparently they could see the whole surgery from their vantage point ABOVE the operating table . . . They left their body and could see it all. I mean holy hell. This shit is incredible!
I love all this stuff Ocean, could talk about it for hours. One day we will!! Waiting in line together for a pj concert! That would be ace!!
Haha....so do i Staysea! So do I. I believe in two, small, infinitely talented miracles. Oh whoops, i believe in three miracles. I forgot about my husband
Elmo -- I think YOU are THE SHIZ! I truly love your posts. They always put a smile on my face. I have not read back too far in this thread either. And I agree, I was brought up in a protestant church, and although I don't attend regularly, I still try to live my life by the teachings of Jesus. Things like, "love your enemy. I mean wow," really is a special idea. And the really interesting thing is that so many religions hold several of those tenets in common. The whole "do unto others" bit has a similar belief in so many other religions. I read a book in the past 2 or 3 years called, and don't judge a book by its cover, Heaven is for Real. It interested me because it involved a very young boy, 3 at the time, who was really acutely ill. My younger child was really sick starting about age 4, (the cause of which has since been identified and treated, hopefully for good this time.) The family lived in a neighboring state, and came to visit a town very nearby, and went to an insect zoo that my children and I have been to. All of those things made me want to read the book. But in it, the boy talks to his father about family members that died before the boy was born, & he talks to his mother about a child she lost in a miscarriage that he couldn't possibly have known about. He says he met them while he was near death on the operating table. As a nurse, near death experiences fascinate me for a multitude of reasons. Especially recently, because I have lost so many family members in the recent past. So let the thread die if it must. Elmo I would be happy to discuss this further, anytime. You know where I am.
I agree! The life after death stuff is so bloody fascinating! It's FULL ON! There was this article in The Age (Melbourne's best, or most reputable paper) about two years ago, about how out of body experiences of people are being tested in various hospitals around the world. So they're doing stuff like writing things on the floor that can ONLY be seen from a birds eye view before a surgery.....and yeah, these patients who have been under anaesthetic are able to tell the surgery staff what was written because apparently they could see the whole surgery from their vantage point ABOVE the operating table . . . They left their body and could see it all. I mean holy hell. This shit is incredible!
I love all this stuff Ocean, could talk about it for hours. One day we will!! Waiting in line together for a pj concert! That would be ace!!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :wave: :wave:
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
Maybe that is why my mind went nuts. I was stressed out and listening to my ipod and I heard this and I remembered why it happened. I heard the original first.... years prior. the melody trips me out.
I really wish I could post why she wrote it, who it's about or even the lyrics. Seek it if you want. It's not for everyone. Very Sad.
Staysea I might have had an out of body experience with that song too!!! At an underground rave in London in 1996, after a tab . . . No just joking. That wasn't an our of body experience, just a mind f*ck! (And I have no idea what song was playing at the time) . . .
That song by Tori Amos is amazing though . . . FULL ON. But amazing. I can see why you had a strange experience . . .
Back to out of body experiences though, Southhampton University is doing a study at the moment, in various hospitals around the world . . . it's called AWARE (AWAreness during REsuscitation) . . . so hopefully they will be able to prove that the concsiousness is something separate from the body. I'm not sure exactly what good that would do for humanity, but at the least it might console people who have had loved ones who have died?
Staysea I might have had an out of body experience with that song too!!! At an underground rave in London in 1996, after I had my first tab . . . No just joking. That wasn't an our of body experience, just a mind f*ck! (And I have no idea what song was playing at the time) . . .
That song by Tori Amos is amazing though . . . FULL ON. But amazing. I can see why you had a strange experience . . .
Back to out of body experiences though, Southhampton University is doing a study at the moment, in various hospitals around the world . . . it's called AWARE (AWareness during REsuscitation) . . . so hopefully they will be able to prove that the concsiousness is something separate from the body. I'm not sure exactly what good that would do for humanity, but at the least it might console people who have had loved ones who have died?
I had read that too Elmo, some little blip in the paper or something. OOB experiences have always fascinated me. As a nurse, with nurse anesthetists friends, I have heard lots of stories about patients who have been under anesthesia, with their eyes, closed, all signs pointing to them being out and yet they felt the sensations of being operated on, to put it nicely. There is also a book out by a doctor, I believe, who had such an OOB experience and he had been a skeptic prior to his experience.
I worked on an oncology floor for a few years in my early 20's. Cancer and death really are no respecter of persons. I took care of adult people of all ages. One young man, 18 or 19 who went to the ER with a sore throat - and really had leukemia. He had sex with his girlfriend in his hospital bed and the older nurses nearly had kittens. And all I could think was "Good for them" He died within a year's time. A middle-aged man who worked at Wal-Mart and had no insurance. The nurses threw a luau wedding anniversary celebration for him and his wife. He had a bone-marrow transplant, but never left the hospital alive again. And the elderly lady with no family to call when her time was near, so I sat with her while she passed. And I wonder about those people and is it really over. Was she watching me hold her hand while she went on to greet her loved ones?
As far as Jesus and Eddie though, have you heard about the then 8 year old art prodigy Akiane Kramarik, who told her then atheist mother that she was getting visions from God. She painted a picture that she calls the Prince of Peace. When the boy, whose OOB experience led him to say heaven is real looked at paintings of Jesus, he said none of them were right. And then one day, he saw Akiane's painting. His eyes got big, and his dad asked him what was wrong with this one, and he whispered "Nothing".
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
As far as Jesus and Eddie though, have you heard about the then 8 year old art prodigy Akiane Kramarik, who told her then atheist mother that she was getting visions from God. She painted a picture that she calls the Prince of Peace. When the boy, whose OOB experience led him to say heaven is real looked at paintings of Jesus, he said none of them were right. And then one day, he saw Akiane's painting. His eyes got big, and his dad asked him what was wrong with this one, and he whispered "Nothing".
Is everyone else thinking what I'm thinking????
That if this Akiane prodigy is right, then Jesus was actually a complete MEGABABE!!!!!! Jesus, Jesus!!! Looking good there!!! I can see you wouldn't have had much problem converting the LADIES!!!
I think Jesus was most likely a pretty spectacular person, with some ground-breaking and truly wonderful ideas. But I think the powers that be no doubt exploited his name and teachings, and interwove his ideas with ideas of their own, i.e. for instruments of control such as 'the only way to god or salvation is through Jesus', i.e. anyone who isn't Christian is going to burn in hell. Which is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. If there is a consciousness of our overarching existence, then I don't think it would give a SHIT what particular set of teachings you follow, or if you're an atheist, as long as you have love in your heart and treat your fellow humans with love and compassion.
I think for any religious person, it's important to question some of the more illogical aspects of their religion, and understand that there is a very human element to human religions! So they can't possibly be perfect! So it's worth taking everything, apart from the most truly beautiful and luminous of ideas, with a decent grain of salt.
I see the fact of existence as being rooted in something vast, infinite and complete. But because we live on a finite planet, and have a finite life span, it's difficult for humans to comprehend something that transcends time and space. It's hard to comprehend infinity, or why an infinite source of love and possibilities would exist in the first place. It's weird.
So anyway I see human religions as various attempts to describe the indescribable. They're like big rafts sitting on the top of an infinite ocean. By grabbing on to these rafts, you might be better able to feel the ocean underneath you, because the raft is something you can understand, it's physical and tangible, and is heading in a specific direction. But in relation to the greatness and mystery of existence, the raft is limited and inflexible. It's man-made, not organic, so it doesn't grow and change with the infinite ocean, it stays the same.
So while I think religion can be a BEAUTIFUL way to engage with existence, for those people who feel safest on the raft, I do think that it should be questioned. Everything should be questioned.
That's not to say people shouldn't believe in the power and beauty of Jesus, Mohammed or Buddha for example, or that they shouldn't feel a special connection with these men and their teachings, just that they should understand that each of these spiritual guides was preaching within the confines of his era, his beliefs, and through the prism of his particular understanding. And not only that, that the original ideas of these great men have no doubt been corrupted and misrepresented along the way too . . .
Whoops, shit. Sorry for the rant!! I'm not even sure I've added ANYTHING at all to the discussion!
But at least we all now know the Jesus was HOT!!! Thanks Ocean!
religious? No. spiritual? Yes Christian? HELL NO! if you think eddie could be christian you have not been listening.
Im a hater. Jesus wasn't white and the Bible is a blasphemy by it's own standard. Your good works and good life won't get you into Heaven, only submission to the will of The Church. Sounds like a bad line from a used car salesman. Hatin done.
Hatin revived. Being aware under anesthesia is an unverified aneceote AT BEST, and it is base drivel in 99% of stated cases. Out of 300 or so anesthetists I know, none of them believe in a legitmate case so far.
Hatin fully expelled.
I love you all and hope you have a great day and a very minor irritation in your comfortability with believing in filth.
Ed has a religion of his own, he said it at a show... The only rule, don't be an asshole. Otherwise you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want. He's pretty critical of religion in the Lightning Bolt album.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,652
Exactly --- the Church of Pearl Jam -- don't be an asshole!
Ed has a religion of his own, he said it at a show... The only rule, don't be an asshole. Otherwise you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want. He's pretty critical of religion in the Lightning Bolt album.
Ed has a religion of his own, he said it at a show... The only rule, don't be an asshole. Otherwise you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want. He's pretty critical of religion in the Lightning Bolt album.
Haha, that was Columbus 2010 \m/
05/06/2010. It was that years national day of prayer and Ed pontificated a bit about it.
Church is in your heart son, you don't always need a steeple. ~ Cross Canadian Ragweed
I'm a christian, born and raised, believe in God, and try to do good in this world and be a good person, but I fully believe that statement above, I don't attend church, because I feel like church is a ridiculous three ring circus anymore....I'll have my relationship with my God, and do my thing myself...I'm also Buddhist....well, a noob at Buddhism, but I've been reading about it and beginning to practice it and I think it will also make me a better christian....my next book I want to read is actually called "Without Buddhism, I could not be a Christian"....I just don't remember who the Author is...anywho, I don't have any issue with anyone from any religion so long as they don't force their's down my throat, as I won't do that to them either...
And I'll gladly attend the church of Pearl Jam!
Music is my Religion and Pearl Jam, my Savior! Tattooed Dissident!
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ratmando
Outside of Portland, or somewhere like that Posts: 347
Uh oh.....I AM a big scary atheist.......beware the wrath of my........ER.....Uh...... ukulele and puppy!!!!!( wish I was joking, but it was the one thing I could say to a neighbor who felt my life as her call of duty to change reality.) If I believe in myself, that's faith enough...I believe in music so I am double...Uh....blessed.
When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest.
I think that after Milton Keynes, Ed may at least start believing in miracles... 'cause the weather we had that evening was a (small) miracle ... : ) Anyway, PJ are so authentic and honest with their human experience that, in fact, I don't care too much about their religious "option"... in fact, in their authenticity i'm somehow confirmed in what i call God (that is the answer to human heart and human infinite desire and thirst of happiness...)
Shouldn't we just be open enough to accept others regardless of their faith or non-faith? I don't care what people believe, I only care about what I believe. And so should everyone else. The problem with man-made religion, or perhaps it's just a human nature thing, is that we push our personal beliefs on others. Let's stop doing that. Love is about acceptance of others regardless of what they may believe or not believe. I believe in Love.
Comments
This is an interesting thread. I never thought that Ed's spirituality was ambiguous. He's on a journey like the rest of us. Whether that is toward or away from God I do not know, and I don't really have to know. He's a human being, and that brings with it a certain amount of joy and pain, trial and victory. It's nice to have companionship through all of that in a world that quite frankly craps on everyone. Perhaps that companionship is in the form of a savior, or in the community of a church, or in the camaraderie of a shared musical experience, or in beer (and I've plenty of those stories too!). It is different for everyone. Life's tapestry is much more fulfilling when shared with others. Others that in some way connect with one another. If I don't know anything else, I know that.
I'm a believer myself. And I don't say that with one shred of pomposity. I've walked the path of Christianity, of Paganism, of Thelema, of Buddhism, of Agnosticism and all of that has led me where I am today - still growing and still learning, still screwing up and still loving life. Personally, I cannot look at my husband, or my 4 beautiful children without being completely awestruck of what God has created. I cannot hike a mountain, traipse through a forest, or dance in the rain without wonder or see human kindness at work without admiration. All of that comes from love, and that is the essence of God.
I'm ok with not knowing exactly how it all came to be or how it will all end. I am comforted in knowing that there is something much bigger than I. Which often brings a hell of a lot more responsibility than not. If there is an absolute in life, here on Earth, then it's LOVE.
2013 Wrigley
2013 Dallas
2013 Oklahoma City
2013 Seattle
How I choose to feel is how I am.
There's just one word I still believe...and it's LOVE.
"Take care of one another..." -EV
I agree!!!! Absolutely . . .
I haven't read all the responses here, but essentially I think religion can be seen as a framework, a set of man-made rules with which people engage with the wonder of existence. And I think for some people that strict framework is exactly what they need. Exactly. It makes them feel safe and it gives them guidelines and rituals through which to express their spirituality. And they can be incredibly beautiful, these rituals and rules. When they're not oppressing or hurting people, or perpetuating hatred and fear, or claiming to be the 'only way' then they are beautiful. And let's face it, some of the messages are amazing . . . Christ: love your enemy. I mean wow, that's a pretty special idea. Pretty bloody groundbreaking!
But while I don't think EV adheres to a particular framework to be spiritual, I think he's definitely a spiritual person. I remember hearing him say on some concert footage, while quoting Oscar Wilde was it? 'I don't believe in 'God', I believe in something much bigger than that'. So I think he believes in something! Absolutely! The fact that he doesn't want to express his beliefs through a man-made construct doesn't mean he's not spiritual. No one should expect others to engage with existence and spirituality according to the set of rules or the books that work for them.
I personally don't like the word 'God' to describe the consciousness of the Universe (if there is one). Only because the 'God' of the old testament didn't appeal to me as a child. It didn't ring true. So I don't particularly like that name. But I don't begrudge anyone else who wants to use that word . . .
I was talking to my grown-up nephew about this the other day, who at 21 was telling me there is nothing, but science. Nothing else. No afterlife, nor anything but what we can see and hear etc etc. Which I'm not sure even most scientists believe these days, as they unravel just how incredible the building blocks of our reality are . . . but anyway, so I told him that I believe 100% in evolution, and in the perfect laws of physics which created our reality, I believe 100% in the big bang and in science, but just because I believe in all those things, in the physical laws on which our reality is built, that doesn't in any way tell me why the big bang happened! Or why the fuck those laws of physics exist in the first place!!!!! And it made him stop and think, which I thought was nice.
Personally I think the actual fact of existence is A COMPLETE MIRACLE. I mean this reality, where 1 + 1 = 2, and we have gravity, this isn't chaos is it. It works. The laws of physics and mathematics work extremely well. I think the very fact of a reality that is built around these incredibly complicated but beautiful logical laws, in which conscious being such as ourselves can exist, is such a goddam miracle, that anything is possible! ANYTHING. And I think our human minds probably aren't built to be able to understand it completely . . . or we can, but it takes hard work and an EXTREMELY open and flexible mind to get our heads around it.
Sometimes I take issue with Atheism because I see it as another strict set of rules with no flexibility, i.e. 'nothing happens when you die, there is no god etc' because it's like 'you're not dead mate, seriously, how the fuck do you know?' . . . But then at the same time I respect that opinion, I have to don't I? For people to respect mine?
I think when it comes to spirituality, we all have to respect eachother's frameworks and forms of expression, but we should never propose that someone is wrong because they don't adhere to the same set of rules that we do. Spirituality is much deeper and greater and more intangible than that.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
So. Ummm. My post was so bloody inspiring that it inspired BinFrog to go and make a Yoda meme about how this fucking thread won't die!!!! Hahaha, awesome!! Thanks BinFrog
Okay, but before I let this thread die a natural death, just let me share a moment where I was struck by the beauty of a religious ritual. I was travelling around Turkey years ago with my best friend, and we were on this yacht trip with some other randoms . . . So one day we stopped in this coastal town for lunch and the call to prayer started up. Well the first thing I noticed was that this particular prayer singer had a GORGEOUS tenor voice, really bloody beautiful, then a few moments later another call to prayer starts up on the other side of the town, and this other guy has an equally amazing voice.
So they're each singing a separate call to prayer from their mosque's miranet, miles from eachother (a common occurance, you'll hear it 5 times a day in Turkey) but with these two singers it's like they're singing in perfect harmony. They're improvising a beautiful duet, an incredible musical dance, between themselves, from opposite sides of the city, over the top of the city. And it was so musical, and I could hear so much joy in it, that it was a moment of true beauty for me. It was fucking magical. And the thing is, they would do the same thing every single day. They would improvise this stunning duet of worship for the whole town 5 times a day.
So yeah, I thought that was pretty fucking cool . . .
Okay, now the thread can die! But only because Yoda is THE SHIZ
I believe in miracles...
Elmo -- I think YOU are THE SHIZ! I truly love your posts. They always put a smile on my face. I have not read back too far in this thread either. And I agree, I was brought up in a protestant church, and although I don't attend regularly, I still try to live my life by the teachings of Jesus. Things like, "love your enemy. I mean wow," really is a special idea. And the really interesting thing is that so many religions hold several of those tenets in common. The whole "do unto others" bit has a similar belief in so many other religions. I read a book in the past 2 or 3 years called, and don't judge a book by its cover, Heaven is for Real. It interested me because it involved a very young boy, 3 at the time, who was really acutely ill. My younger child was really sick starting about age 4, (the cause of which has since been identified and treated, hopefully for good this time.) The family lived in a neighboring state, and came to visit a town very nearby, and went to an insect zoo that my children and I have been to. All of those things made me want to read the book. But in it, the boy talks to his father about family members that died before the boy was born, & he talks to his mother about a child she lost in a miscarriage that he couldn't possibly have known about. He says he met them while he was near death on the operating table. As a nurse, near death experiences fascinate me for a multitude of reasons. Especially recently, because I have lost so many family members in the recent past. So let the thread die if it must. Elmo I would be happy to discuss this further, anytime. You know where I am.
I agree! The life after death stuff is so bloody fascinating! It's FULL ON! There was this article in The Age (Melbourne's best, or most reputable paper) about two years ago, about how out of body experiences of people are being tested in various hospitals around the world. So they're doing stuff like writing things on the floor that can ONLY be seen from a birds eye view before a surgery.....and yeah, these patients who have been under anaesthetic are able to tell the surgery staff what was written because apparently they could see the whole surgery from their vantage point ABOVE the operating table . . . They left their body and could see it all. I mean holy hell. This shit is incredible!
I love all this stuff Ocean, could talk about it for hours. One day we will!! Waiting in line together for a pj concert! That would be ace!!
Haha....so do i Staysea! So do I. I believe in two, small, infinitely talented miracles. Oh whoops, i believe in three miracles. I forgot about my husband
actually happened to me. I was really tired and someone put on this trance CD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKBIIjZvUQ
the Cd I heard was extended. Six remixes of it.
I came out of it, and said no more lost screaming babies! Please turn it off!
Apparently I had been talking in my sleep before I woke up also.
Wish I had drugs to explain that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYUpli3ZADc
I think it was digweed or sasha. But mixing RITM's OBE, and they copied Tori.
The original is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZusY_UfXdwg
Maybe that is why my mind went nuts. I was stressed out and listening to my ipod and I heard this and I remembered why it happened. I heard the original first.... years prior. the melody trips me out.
I really wish I could post why she wrote it, who it's about or even the lyrics. Seek it if you want. It's not for everyone. Very Sad.
That song by Tori Amos is amazing though . . . FULL ON. But amazing. I can see why you had a strange experience . . .
Back to out of body experiences though, Southhampton University is doing a study at the moment, in various hospitals around the world . . . it's called AWARE (AWAreness during REsuscitation) . . . so hopefully they will be able to prove that the concsiousness is something separate from the body. I'm not sure exactly what good that would do for humanity, but at the least it might console people who have had loved ones who have died?
I worked on an oncology floor for a few years in my early 20's. Cancer and death really are no respecter of persons. I took care of adult people of all ages. One young man, 18 or 19 who went to the ER with a sore throat - and really had leukemia. He had sex with his girlfriend in his hospital bed and the older nurses nearly had kittens. And all I could think was "Good for them" He died within a year's time. A middle-aged man who worked at Wal-Mart and had no insurance. The nurses threw a luau wedding anniversary celebration for him and his wife. He had a bone-marrow transplant, but never left the hospital alive again. And the elderly lady with no family to call when her time was near, so I sat with her while she passed. And I wonder about those people and is it really over. Was she watching me hold her hand while she went on to greet her loved ones?
As far as Jesus and Eddie though, have you heard about the then 8 year old art prodigy Akiane Kramarik, who told her then atheist mother that she was getting visions from God. She painted a picture that she calls the Prince of Peace. When the boy, whose OOB experience led him to say heaven is real looked at paintings of Jesus, he said none of them were right. And then one day, he saw Akiane's painting. His eyes got big, and his dad asked him what was wrong with this one, and he whispered "Nothing".
miracles abound!
Has anyone tried it?
Supposedly you can experience the "Out Of Body" sensation.
Is everyone else thinking what I'm thinking????
That if this Akiane prodigy is right, then Jesus was actually a complete MEGABABE!!!!!! Jesus, Jesus!!! Looking good there!!!
I think Jesus was most likely a pretty spectacular person, with some ground-breaking and truly wonderful ideas. But I think the powers that be no doubt exploited his name and teachings, and interwove his ideas with ideas of their own, i.e. for instruments of control such as 'the only way to god or salvation is through Jesus', i.e. anyone who isn't Christian is going to burn in hell. Which is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. If there is a consciousness of our overarching existence, then I don't think it would give a SHIT what particular set of teachings you follow, or if you're an atheist, as long as you have love in your heart and treat your fellow humans with love and compassion.
I think for any religious person, it's important to question some of the more illogical aspects of their religion, and understand that there is a very human element to human religions! So they can't possibly be perfect! So it's worth taking everything, apart from the most truly beautiful and luminous of ideas, with a decent grain of salt.
I see the fact of existence as being rooted in something vast, infinite and complete. But because we live on a finite planet, and have a finite life span, it's difficult for humans to comprehend something that transcends time and space. It's hard to comprehend infinity, or why an infinite source of love and possibilities would exist in the first place. It's weird.
So anyway I see human religions as various attempts to describe the indescribable. They're like big rafts sitting on the top of an infinite ocean. By grabbing on to these rafts, you might be better able to feel the ocean underneath you, because the raft is something you can understand, it's physical and tangible, and is heading in a specific direction. But in relation to the greatness and mystery of existence, the raft is limited and inflexible. It's man-made, not organic, so it doesn't grow and change with the infinite ocean, it stays the same.
So while I think religion can be a BEAUTIFUL way to engage with existence, for those people who feel safest on the raft, I do think that it should be questioned. Everything should be questioned.
That's not to say people shouldn't believe in the power and beauty of Jesus, Mohammed or Buddha for example, or that they shouldn't feel a special connection with these men and their teachings, just that they should understand that each of these spiritual guides was preaching within the confines of his era, his beliefs, and through the prism of his particular understanding. And not only that, that the original ideas of these great men have no doubt been corrupted and misrepresented along the way too . . .
Whoops, shit. Sorry for the rant!! I'm not even sure I've added ANYTHING at all to the discussion!
But at least we all now know the Jesus was HOT!!! Thanks Ocean!
Have never tried it! But would love to . . .
Anyway, I don't believe in God or Jesus or Budda or whatever, and I couldn't care less about the religious inclination of Eddie and the band
Buddha was a real person? A historical figure? What do you mean you don't believe in him?
Christian? HELL NO! if you think eddie could be christian you have not been listening.
Im a hater.
Jesus wasn't white and the Bible is a blasphemy by it's own standard. Your good works and good life won't get you into Heaven, only submission to the will of The Church. Sounds like a bad line from a used car salesman.
Hatin done.
Being aware under anesthesia is an unverified aneceote AT BEST, and it is base drivel in 99% of stated cases. Out of 300 or so anesthetists I know, none of them believe in a legitmate case so far.
Hatin fully expelled.
I love you all and hope you have a great day and a very minor irritation in your comfortability with believing in filth.
This thread is done
\m/
I'm a christian, born and raised, believe in God, and try to do good in this world and be a good person, but I fully believe that statement above, I don't attend church, because I feel like church is a ridiculous three ring circus anymore....I'll have my relationship with my God, and do my thing myself...I'm also Buddhist....well, a noob at Buddhism, but I've been reading about it and beginning to practice it and I think it will also make me a better christian....my next book I want to read is actually called "Without Buddhism, I could not be a Christian"....I just don't remember who the Author is...anywho, I don't have any issue with anyone from any religion so long as they don't force their's down my throat, as I won't do that to them either...
And I'll gladly attend the church of Pearl Jam!
Tattooed Dissident!
Henry David Thoreau
Anyway, PJ are so authentic and honest with their human experience that, in fact, I don't care too much about their religious "option"... in fact, in their authenticity i'm somehow confirmed in what i call God (that is the answer to human heart and human infinite desire and thirst of happiness...)
LK
Shouldn't we just be open enough to accept others regardless of their faith or non-faith? I don't care what people believe, I only care about what I believe. And so should everyone else. The problem with man-made religion, or perhaps it's just a human nature thing, is that we push our personal beliefs on others. Let's stop doing that. Love is about acceptance of others regardless of what they may believe or not believe. I believe in Love.