First, the scientific community (great majority) does not support an intelligent creator. That is a thought that for whatever reason has been accepted by you but it is false.
Second, I'm not sure where you got 8% but it is much higher than that. In the USA it is more like 15% that either claim to be atheist or agnostic. In Europe this % is much higher...
Just want to clarify that:
It is widely believed, even in the scientific community it's gaining ground that there is an intelligent creator of earth and life as we know it.
"Gaining ground" doesn't mean the majority. It means that people in the scientific community are beginning to break out of the macro-evolution box that they've been forced into by others (think wealthy) who benefit financially from the belief (in macro-evolution). If you're here by accident, your life really has no purpose other than to make money to buy things. (all those in the NY stock exchange cheer wildly). So those at the head of the machine force feed this belief to the public, keeping them peacefully in ignorance and "empowered" by an , 'i can do whatever i want' attitude. Thank God some people aren't afraid to stand up to this.
2)Only about 8% of the U.S. claims atheism.
You included agnostics in your argument, but the 8% is in reference to atheists only. Agnostics do believe in something...they just don't know what to call it! :-) And the 8% is generous. Some polls say less than 5%.
Ignored in the story is the long list of scientists who hold religious views similar to Dr. Collins. Do the secularists demand an oath of atheism before people are deemed respectable scientists? We have seen the results of non-faith carried to its extreme in the Nazi laboratory of Josef Mengele and other "scientists" unconstrained by a higher authority.
(and)
Dr. Collins sees no conflict between science and faith. In 2007, he said this at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington: "...in the scientific community there is often an unwritten taboo about discussing one’s spiritual leanings, so many assume that scientists are generally godless materialists. That’s not actually true — a recent survey found that 40 percent of working scientists believe in a God to whom one may pray in expectation of an answer. And that number has changed very little over the past century."
Also, not all people who believe in God are simply afraid of death or how the world will end. I'm sure some do fit this description, but that shouldn't define a believer or their motive. Some people have simply seen the amazing complexity of life around them, realized that it couldn't have happened by chance, and humble themselves to realize there is a higher force at work than random mutation (which is a dead end anyway). Why is that so hard to believe? And why do people always want to fight it?
Ignored in the story is the long list of scientists who hold religious views similar to Dr. Collins. Do the secularists demand an oath of atheism before people are deemed respectable scientists? We have seen the results of non-faith carried to its extreme in the Nazi laboratory of Josef Mengele and other "scientists" unconstrained by a higher authority.
(and)
Dr. Collins sees no conflict between science and faith. In 2007, he said this at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington: "...in the scientific community there is often an unwritten taboo about discussing one’s spiritual leanings, so many assume that scientists are generally godless materialists. That’s not actually true — a recent survey found that 40 percent of working scientists believe in a God to whom one may pray in expectation of an answer. And that number has changed very little over the past century."
Also, not all people who believe in God are simply afraid of death or how the world will end. I'm sure some do fit this description, but that shouldn't define a believer or their motive. Some people have simply seen the amazing complexity of life around them, realized that it couldn't have happened by chance, and humble themselves to realize there is a higher force at work than random mutation (which is a dead end anyway). Why is that so hard to believe? And why do people always want to fight it?
I saw the most part, but still I was just shocked at that statement...seemed kind of ignorant to me...but, I'm not starting a heated convo or anything.
I don't really believe in Jesus, or any specific faith....I guess there is a good chance that for that I'm unintelligent. :roll:
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Ignored in the story is the long list of scientists who hold religious views similar to Dr. Collins. Do the secularists demand an oath of atheism before people are deemed respectable scientists? We have seen the results of non-faith carried to its extreme in the Nazi laboratory of Josef Mengele and other "scientists" unconstrained by a higher authority.
(and)
Dr. Collins sees no conflict between science and faith. In 2007, he said this at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington: "...in the scientific community there is often an unwritten taboo about discussing one’s spiritual leanings, so many assume that scientists are generally godless materialists. That’s not actually true — a recent survey found that 40 percent of working scientists believe in a God to whom one may pray in expectation of an answer. And that number has changed very little over the past century."
Also, not all people who believe in God are simply afraid of death or how the world will end. I'm sure some do fit this description, but that shouldn't define a believer or their motive. Some people have simply seen the amazing complexity of life around them, realized that it couldn't have happened by chance, and humble themselves to realize there is a higher force at work than random mutation (which is a dead end anyway). Why is that so hard to believe? And why do people always want to fight it?
well most of the "intelligent" believe in god because most of the people in the world believe in god but if you took the top fifth percentile of the people in the world you would find a higher proportion of atheists as if you took a similar number of people lower down on the intelligence scale.
"I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor. [5]
And sadly enough, I find it true these days. I used to be a part of that crowd. I believed that I was too smart to believe in a myth. After all, I was valedictorian of my high school class and a biology major. (raised catholic, too, which really destroyed any notions I had of a real God.) I figured Mary probably got knocked up by Joseph and made up the whole angel visiting story to avoid certain death for premarital sex. I believed that a series of random genetic mutations caused bacterium to grow into plants and animals; first reptiles, then amphibians, then birds, then mammals. (although there is some confusion regarding birds descending from reptiles, too). I ate all it up and regurgitated it with straight A's. I could do whatever I wanted, not to be tied down by dogmatic morals. I ended up dropping out of college the first time around, so I could party full time. Spent almost 3 years drunk and high. And unfortunately empty. Nothing filled the emptiness.
Not until I faced my own pride and admitted defeat. Saw through the lies. Saw the world I had bought into and tried to create for myself.
They say christianity is the easiest religion to belong to. All you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus was the son of God, died to make you right with God, and rose from the dead. And invite him to live through you and change you from the inside out.
In this intellectually driven world, this is one of the HARDEST things to do!
People assume you're unintelligent and simpleminded. (wrong) They think you blindly accept whatever the religious community tells you. (Which is also wrong) And they think that christians never question anything, which is also ridiculous. There are plenty of things in the Bible that I don't agree with. But I talk about it with God and ask him to show me why. There are plenty of things that I still haven't heard back about!
But I can accept that He/She is there. And if anything, my intelligence has improved without the beer and pot!
No one will know who was right and who was wrong until we die or the end comes, so there really isn't anymore I can say. I just encourage anyone who reads this to not be afraid to go against the grain. Search for truth. It has a way of revealing itself to those who aren't afraid to lay down their self images and start anew.
"I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor. [5]
And sadly enough, I find it true these days. I used to be a part of that crowd. I believed that I was too smart to believe in a myth. After all, I was valedictorian of my high school class and a biology major. (raised catholic, too, which really destroyed any notions I had of a real God.) I figured Mary probably got knocked up by Joseph and made up the whole angel visiting story to avoid certain death for premarital sex. I believed that a series of random genetic mutations caused bacterium to grow into plants and animals; first reptiles, then amphibians, then birds, then mammals. (although there is some confusion regarding birds descending from reptiles, too). I ate all it up and regurgitated it with straight A's. I could do whatever I wanted, not to be tied down by dogmatic morals. I ended up dropping out of college the first time around, so I could party full time. Spent almost 3 years drunk and high. And unfortunately empty. Nothing filled the emptiness.
Not until I faced my own pride and admitted defeat. Saw through the lies. Saw the world I had bought into and tried to create for myself.
They say christianity is the easiest religion to belong to. All you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus was the son of God, died to make you right with God, and rose from the dead. And invite him to live through you and change you from the inside out.
In this intellectually driven world, this is one of the HARDEST things to do!
People assume you're unintelligent and simpleminded. (wrong) They think you blindly accept whatever the religious community tells you. (Which is also wrong) And they think that christians never question anything, which is also ridiculous. There are plenty of things in the Bible that I don't agree with. But I talk about it with God and ask him to show me why. There are plenty of things that I still haven't heard back about!
But I can accept that He/She is there. And if anything, my intelligence has improved without the beer and pot!
No one will know who was right and who was wrong until we die or the end comes, so there really isn't anymore I can say. I just encourage anyone who reads this to not be afraid to go against the grain. Search for truth. It has a way of revealing itself to those who aren't afraid to lay down their self images and start anew.
good stuff....I remember sitting in church when I first started having doubts (probably 15-16) and thinking..."couldn't there have been a better way for god to get the word out instead of torturing poor Jesus?" I mean come on....all it would take is some messages in the clouds or hell come down to earth and stomp a few people and we'll believe your story man!!
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I also think that is why "everything has to be religious". (Well, i hate the term religious, actually. it simply conjurs up images of hypocrites and rules). But I think it has to do with our souls. This is my theory. As human beings, we are born with souls that are connected to God. But when we "lose our innocence" or make that first deliberate decision to break the basic moral code (that all humans seem to inexplicably have), that connection is severed. And we spend the rest of our lives either trying to find our way back, running away from, or just filling the hole with whatever we can: work, pleasure, objects, etc
So every human has to deal with this faith issue throughout their lives. A lot of PJ lyrics remind me of wrestling with those issues.
hi, what i would use instead of "religious" is sacred in the meaning that every single human being or living being has to be respected. call it soul, energy, god whatever, i call it life, it must be respected. i think the most terrible sin (i hate this word) we can ever do is not loving. no one can give a definite answer if god exists or not. but my question is: is that so important? i mean why don't we concentrate on this life? why don't we do all our efforts to enjoy it and to make the other happy or loved? just for life for, this life, not for that to come.
do you remember chris (into the wild) happiness is true only when shared...
"I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor. [5]
And sadly enough, I find it true these days. I used to be a part of that crowd. I believed that I was too smart to believe in a myth. After all, I was valedictorian of my high school class and a biology major. (raised catholic, too, which really destroyed any notions I had of a real God.) I figured Mary probably got knocked up by Joseph and made up the whole angel visiting story to avoid certain death for premarital sex. I believed that a series of random genetic mutations caused bacterium to grow into plants and animals; first reptiles, then amphibians, then birds, then mammals. (although there is some confusion regarding birds descending from reptiles, too). I ate all it up and regurgitated it with straight A's. I could do whatever I wanted, not to be tied down by dogmatic morals. I ended up dropping out of college the first time around, so I could party full time. Spent almost 3 years drunk and high. And unfortunately empty. Nothing filled the emptiness.
Not until I faced my own pride and admitted defeat. Saw through the lies. Saw the world I had bought into and tried to create for myself.
They say christianity is the easiest religion to belong to. All you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus was the son of God, died to make you right with God, and rose from the dead. And invite him to live through you and change you from the inside out.
In this intellectually driven world, this is one of the HARDEST things to do!
People assume you're unintelligent and simpleminded. (wrong) They think you blindly accept whatever the religious community tells you. (Which is also wrong) And they think that christians never question anything, which is also ridiculous. There are plenty of things in the Bible that I don't agree with. But I talk about it with God and ask him to show me why. There are plenty of things that I still haven't heard back about!
But I can accept that He/She is there. And if anything, my intelligence has improved without the beer and pot!
No one will know who was right and who was wrong until we die or the end comes, so there really isn't anymore I can say. I just encourage anyone who reads this to not be afraid to go against the grain. Search for truth. It has a way of revealing itself to those who aren't afraid to lay down their self images and start anew.
I'm not saying its dumb to believe in god i was just arguing against the point that most of the intelligent people believe in god which isn't really the case, i think dont its dumb to believe in god at all, a lot of intelligent people(like my parents) i know believe and god and i wouldn't hold it against them but i personally i just find the whole concept ridiculous and outdated
2. Ever noticed how many people turn to religion after they have fucked up either on drugs, or alcohol, or just horrible life choices. I see soooo many people being "saved" by religion. It wasn't good enough for them before they hit rock bottom - but now they have, and everyone else has turned their backs - religion is right there ready to add a few more numbers to their masses.
3. Yeah, I had two points, but now I got three. If religion is all about love and the righteous - why the hell are the churches so goddamn rich. Why do you have to continually make donations in order to be saved? What is with this bullshit!?
Religion can go to hell if you ask me. It simply manufactures hate, greed, and marginalisation.
The only creed we should be living by, is the one stated by Stefania. Quit searching for excuses to hate someone, and share the love.
2. Ever noticed how many people turn to religion after they have fucked up either on drugs, or alcohol, or just horrible life choices. I see soooo many people being "saved" by religion. It wasn't good enough for them before they hit rock bottom - but now they have, and everyone else has turned their backs - religion is right there ready to add a few more numbers to their masses.
3. Yeah, I had two points, but now I got three. If religion is all about love and the righteous - why the hell are the churches so goddamn rich. Why do you have to continually make donations in order to be saved? What is with this bullshit!?
Religion can go to hell if you ask me. It simply manufactures hate, greed, and marginalisation.
The only creed we should be living by, is the one stated by Stefania. Quit searching for excuses to hate someone, and share the love.
Peace out!
yeah i agree wholeheartedly with yea, although its not why i became atheist.
Any other Christian Jammers out there, lets pray for his heart to be opened, if it isn't already.[/quote]
I believe in Jesus Christ and am a huge fan of Pearl Jam. Very glad to know there are others in the club who share the same belief as I do. Also, Christian Jammer is a cute name!
good stuff....I remember sitting in church when I first started having doubts (probably 15-16) and thinking..."couldn't there have been a better way for god to get the word out instead of torturing poor Jesus?" I mean come on....all it would take is some messages in the clouds or hell come down to earth and stomp a few people and we'll believe your story man!!
Wow, the only reason I didn't write back to your response, Drop the leash, was because I was disturbed by your blatant anger and bitterness toward God...or is it Jesus personally?
The only hate I've seen within this thread has been towards christians and religions. What negative thing has anyone written who was arguing in favor of God?
I believe the original intent of the author of this thread was to find out if Eddie had claimed a particular faith, as he has not proclaimed himself to be an atheist. He has never said, "I deny the existence of God". Quite the contrary. (By the way, the definition of an atheist is one who denies the existence of God).
Whether Eddie believes in God or not doesn't really matter to the music. It something that spiritually minded people are curious about, thats all. Its what you get out of the lyrics. I see a lot of spiritual references, which I suppose is only natural since I do proudly believe in God. To those that don't, I would assume you wouldn't agree. Thats alright. I'm not going to attack you. I don't hate you. And I haven't acted in such a manner.
So why all the hate about God, while promoting Love? I don't get it.
Aetheist or not ~ all I ever feel at a PJ concert is LOVE. Love for the band, love for life, love for mankind. The concern and well being of the common man has always been expressed (or at least that's how I've interpreted it) by Eddie at every PJ concert I've ever been to. I have never left a PJ concert with anything but good vibes (don't know if that's God's influence or not, but truth be told - going to a PJ concert is like having a religious experience).
(BTW, raised and still practice as a RC.)
And he who forgets will be destined to remember. REMEMBER THE SPECTRUM!
might be slightly off topic and i'm not trying to be a dick but if ed believed in jesus ("christ", that is) i'd lose a lot of respect for him. i don't have time to get involved in this thread too deeply but i feel bad for guys like the o.p.
you seem like a decent dude who's not trying to use his religion to hurt anyone but it's sad to see an adult believe in children's stories for comfort in a confusing world.
if it brings you comfort, that's nice. i just hope there aren't any kids involved in or being subjected to this belief system because there is an entire universe of knowledge they won't be privy to. it is a sad thing for any human being to be born into such an exciting time of scientific discovery only to have it brainwashed away from them while they're still not of mind to see through it.
atheism is the only conclusion at this point and to deny that, is to deny the progress we've made as a species in the last few hundred years (or several million depending how you look at it).
I would respect Ed and all of his work even if he was an avid atheist. I have come to the conclusion , from searching quotes, lyrics and just about anything he's publicly said even close to the topic, as far as his belief in God goes, he may be agnostic at worst. Being that he has never publicly denied the existence of God, I can only conclude that someone made it up or knows something none of us do. It appears someone twisted his words and drew their own conclusion, and decided to report as fact.
Yes, much like the neat little story of evolution. The theory that couldn't become fact because nobody has ever proven it. One of my favorite tales is about the giant mass of matter floating in infinite space, that one day decided to explode. It formed galaxy's, stars, solar systems, and planets all on it's own. One of the planets had something we call "soup" on it. From this soup formed life, living cells. But the cells were not happy just being cells, so they decided to become plants, trees, fish, animals and even people.
I realize that the Bible may seem like stories to some. The odds of getting the chemical make up of a cell randomly together in the right proportions are so astronomical it's considered a statistical impossibility. Nothing has ever been witnessed, reported or documented evolving, and life has never been created in a lab. I just want people to realize that the atheist view of creation sounds as much of a fairy tale as my belief in a supreme God who designed and created everything for a reason and purpose.
But the cells were not happy just being cells, so they decided to become plants, trees, fish, animals and even people. I just want people to realize that the atheist view of creation sounds as much of a fairy tale as my belief in a supreme God who designed and created everything for a reason and purpose.
Again, to repeat, I think you're probably a well meaning guy. However, I have zero respect for your ideas or belief system because I believe you are an adult and not a child. Therefor, I must point out the absurdities of your ignorant and simple wish-thinking. I don't have all night to do so and there are much smarter men then I who've been writing rebuttals to the weak-minded for thousands of years on this topic so I'll just mention a few things that come to mind.
Firstly, in response to your quote above, cells were not unhappy being cells and so just "decided to become plants". This shows your ignorance towards science. You are probably one of those creationists who think science claims we "came from monkeys" (which is not what evolution claims at all). One of the beautiful facts of my argument is that I've studied yours and I can use your claims against you. You, however (and most of your ilk) are so sadly ignorant (a default position you would have to be in to allow yourself to be subjected to irrational belief) that you have no idea what you are arguing against. This is the first sign of the unprepared, anti-intellectual.
And so I ask you, what is more plausible; that single cells, through the use of DNA and RNA by way of the recombination of code understood in four parts A,T,C and G, EVOLVED over millions of years into other, more complex organisms or that a god, an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being created ONE man and didn't have the fucking foresight to realize he would get LONELY and thus created him a woman to keep him company? So this all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful god's first plan was a fucking failure?
"Oh shit! I put this ONE guy in a garden with all this fruit and knowledge and other cool animals for him to hang out with but I never REALIZED he might get lonely! No, sweat, I'm god. I'll just take a rib and create a 'woman' for him to hang out with. I'm sure that will go well! What?! They ate the fucking fruit?! Shit! Didn't see that coming. But maybe I should have because after-all, I did give them free-will! Dammit, I knew that was going to bite me in the ass. Well, you know what, now you two are banned, that's right, get the fuck out. You've ruined it for everyone. What, the snake (aka Devil) made you do it? Hmmm, that's odd because the Devil is Lucifer, a soul I banished and sent to Hell, but wait a minute; if you two are the first souls I've created, then how the hell (pardon me) can there have been the life lived and then condemned of Lucifer's in the first place?!! Arg! This whole universe (although I never bothered to mention anything about a universe in the subsequent writings of the profits) I've created get's soooo dammed confusing sometimes!! And wait a minute. Bend over for a second, you two. What the fuck is that?! Are those assholes?! Who put those there?! I created you in my image! What are you doing with orafices meant to expel digested waste?! I don't "eat" and I most certainly do not "shit". But then again, I did REST (I get TIRED?) on that seventh day, which would imply the expulsion and therefor the reconstitution of energy so maybe I do consume and defecate. Oh, this is all becoming too much! Holy fuck, are those coccyx, appendicis and wisdom teeth as well?! Not to mention, Adam, why the hell do you have nipples?!!!"
I wonder if you laughed at this. You see, I used satire (the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize) to completely deflate your god. I did this while drunk and half asleep. Should I thank Him for the free will or should I thank Ms. Zing, my eight-grade English teacher? I'll let you decide that. In the mean time, I challenge you to argue cohesively (or incohesiveIy or non-cohesively, if you'd like) to satirize the scientific point of view with an ounce of humor. I bet you can't. In fact, I know you can't. And not ONLY because you probably don't know anything about it, but because there is nothing FUNNY about it. You see, all the silliness was thrown out of it. What science proves wrong about itself, it has the courage to expel. Understand that religion gave way to science. Just as alchemy gave way to chemistry and astrology gave way to astronomy. It is your belief system that can be mocked, not because it is just to pick on the weak but because it is right to expose the liar.
And therefor, I'm not tooting my own horn here by admitting the above rant of a rambling drunk is funny because afteral, it's not my story, it's yours.
Post Script: In your last post, you called evolution "the theory that couldn't become fact because nobody has ever proven it". Yet again you expose your ignorance to your opposition. You see, in science, we prefer the word "theory" because we hold the belief that an idea is only "fact" until it has been disproved. That is the beauty of the system. Nothing is absolute. There is still a chance, however remote, that the apple may fall UP. This is not to discount what we hold as theories to be weak or unsupported. In fact, it is quite the opposite. A theory only becomes so after much scrutiny and is always replaceable in the face of new evidence. If you were clever enough, you might see in such open-mindedness the opportunity for god to reveal himself to the atheist or person of science and in that case convert him or her. The beauty of science is that should such a "miracle" occur, our deductive reasoning would have no choice but to make of us converts. The problem with your argument (which is an argument man's been working on for thousands of years) is that it, as of yet, holds up quite poorly to the scrutiny of deductive reasoning, just as do the stories of Zeus, Isis, Humpty Dumpty and Three Little Pigs.
I should probably wait until I'm fully awake to write this, as its 5am and I should be getting ready for work, but I can't just be silent October 22.
I don't want to make this personal, so I won't tell you what your rant made you look like to me, but I will tell you that it didn't give much information in regards to your scientific postion. It really just sounded like a lot of cocky hate spewed onto the page.
Also, I agree with walkthehemisphere that I wouldn't lose respect for Ed over his beliefs. Now if he said things like you do or acted like you, thats a different story. Fortunately he doesn't. He seems to really believe in Love.
I just want to clear up a very ignorant stereotype that you seem to be guilty of. Not all christians are stupid or haven't studied science. In an earlier post, you suggested that, as a christian, my children would not be exposed to the scientific world and would be missing out on educational opportunities. That is SO absurd. Where did you pull that misguided thought from? Do you get all of your information about Christianity from Hollywood?
Look, if you want to convince me that the theory of macroevolution is true, show me how random mutations cause NEW INFORMATION to be created. Lets start there because most random mutations cause a LOSS of information, jumbles information, or repeats information within the genes. This is usually detrimental to the animal or cell. It also generally doesn't occur on a sex cell. The mutation can only be passed down to offspring if it occurs withing the gametes (sex cells). This lessens chances considerably of passing on mutated genes.
Also, at the biochemical level, cells function so perfectly, they are so finely tuned, that if any part isn't working correctly, the cell won't work. So while something like, lets say, the eye is evolving, how could all of the intricate parts be made (without new info) and passed down (when mutations rarely occur on gametes) and without being helpful to the animal. Cause that is the backbone of evolution, right? That the mutation helps the animal (cell or whatever) and therefore occurs more frequently.
I have to go to work, so I can't keep writing, but I leave one last point about evolution.
Microevolution is what Darwin observed and wrote about. We can see it. Changes in gene alleles that change the traits of things that they already have. Whether its causing helpful traits to dominate or supressing less helpful genes, it is changes within the type of animal. Dog breeds, plant varieties, etc.
People, and I won't just say Darwin, took a leap of faith based on this observance and claimed that it occured on a grand scale , and that a single cell evolved into all life as we know it. Yes, a leap of faith. Show me the real mechanism of macroevolution and I will believe you. I long to, to tell you the truth. I seek truth.
But you can't show me, can you? I'd have to accept it based on faith.
Aetheist or not ~ all I ever feel at a PJ concert is LOVE. Love for the band, love for life, love for mankind. The concern and well being of the common man has always been expressed (or at least that's how I've interpreted it) by Eddie at every PJ concert I've ever been to. I have never left a PJ concert with anything but good vibes (don't know if that's God's influence or not, but truth be told - going to a PJ concert is like having a religious experience).
(BTW, raised and still practice as a RC.)
Right on!!! I totally agree with you 100%. And it IS like a religious experience to see them live!!!
"Oh shit! I put this ONE guy in a garden with all this fruit and knowledge and other cool animals for him to hang out with but I never REALIZED he might get lonely! No, sweat, I'm god. I'll just take a rib and create a 'woman' for him to hang out with. I'm sure that will go well! What?! They ate the fucking fruit?! Shit! Didn't see that coming. But maybe I should have because after-all, I did give them free-will! Dammit, I knew that was going to bite me in the ass. Well, you know what, now you two are banned, that's right, get the fuck out. You've ruined it for everyone. What, the snake (aka Devil) made you do it? Hmmm, that's odd because the Devil is Lucifer, a soul I banished and sent to Hell, but wait a minute; if you two are the first souls I've created, then how the hell (pardon me) can there have been the life lived and then condemned of Lucifer's in the first place?!! Arg! This whole universe (although I never bothered to mention anything about a universe in the subsequent writings of the profits) I've created get's soooo dammed confusing sometimes!! And wait a minute. Bend over for a second, you two. What the fuck is that?! Are those assholes?! Who put those there?! I created you in my image! What are you doing with orafices meant to expel digested waste?! I don't "eat" and I most certainly do not "shit". But then again, I did REST (I get TIRED?) on that seventh day, which would imply the expulsion and therefor the reconstitution of energy so maybe I do consume and defecate. Oh, this is all becoming too much! Holy fuck, are those coccyx, appendicis and wisdom teeth as well?! Not to mention, Adam, why the hell do you have nipples?!!!"
In my first response to you I would like to comment on your "funny" and "comical" rendition of the garden. You are not funny at all. If fact you are offensive and uncouth! Why are you making fun of Creation? That was the beginning of life. Those were living and breathing people, not just a children's bedtime story.
Since you like to research and learn in order to have a good argument reflect on these verses:
Hebrews 11:3 "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible."
Isaiah 40:26 "Lif your eyes and look to the heaven: who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing."
Isaiah 45:7-12 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things. You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the Lord, have created it. It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled (or assembled) their starry hosts."
God created everything!! If you want to research more either put down the bottle and pick up the bible or go to http://www.drdino.com.
Finally, you mispelled the word prophet with referring to a person. I hope you will profit, or gain knowledge, from the scriptures.
Have a blessed day! : )
"Oh shit! I put this ONE guy in a garden with all this fruit and knowledge and other cool animals for him to hang out with but I never REALIZED he might get lonely! No, sweat, I'm god. I'll just take a rib and create a 'woman' for him to hang out with. I'm sure that will go well! What?! They ate the fucking fruit?! Shit! Didn't see that coming. But maybe I should have because after-all, I did give them free-will! Dammit, I knew that was going to bite me in the ass. Well, you know what, now you two are banned, that's right, get the fuck out. You've ruined it for everyone. What, the snake (aka Devil) made you do it? Hmmm, that's odd because the Devil is Lucifer, a soul I banished and sent to Hell, but wait a minute; if you two are the first souls I've created, then how the hell (pardon me) can there have been the life lived and then condemned of Lucifer's in the first place?!! Arg! This whole universe (although I never bothered to mention anything about a universe in the subsequent writings of the profits) I've created get's soooo dammed confusing sometimes!! And wait a minute. Bend over for a second, you two. What the fuck is that?! Are those assholes?! Who put those there?! I created you in my image! What are you doing with orafices meant to expel digested waste?! I don't "eat" and I most certainly do not "shit". But then again, I did REST (I get TIRED?) on that seventh day, which would imply the expulsion and therefor the reconstitution of energy so maybe I do consume and defecate. Oh, this is all becoming too much! Holy fuck, are those coccyx, appendicis and wisdom teeth as well?! Not to mention, Adam, why the hell do you have nipples?!!!"
In my first response to you I would like to comment on your "funny" and "comical" rendition of the garden. You are not funny at all. If fact you are offensive and uncouth! Why are you making fun of Creation? That was the beginning of life. Those were living and breathing people, not just a children's bedtime story.
Since you like to research and learn in order to have a good argument reflect on these verses:
Hebrews 11:3 "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible."
Isaiah 40:26 "Lif your eyes and look to the heaven: who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing."
Isaiah 45:7-12 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things. You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the Lord, have created it. It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled (or assembled) their starry hosts."
God created everything!! If you want to research more either put down the bottle and pick up the bible or go to http://www.drdino.com.
Finally, you mispelled the word prophet with referring to a person. I hope you will profit, or gain knowledge, from the scriptures.
Have a blessed day! : )
is this sarcasm?? cause i really hope it is, btw according to my parents 09/02/91 santa is real
No it is not sarcasm. I'm using what I believe in to refute the ideas of evolution. : ) My faith is important to me. The most important thing in my life. I am not one of those Christians who will stand by and let people walk all over what I believe in. I am going to take a strong stand. For too long people have ridiculed and made a mockery of Christianity.
No it is not sarcasm. I'm using what I believe in to refute the ideas of evolution. : ) My faith is important to me. The most important thing in my life. I am not one of those Christians who will stand by and let people walk all over what I believe in. I am going to take a strong stand. For too long people have ridiculed and made a mockery of Christianity.
btw i admire you for your beliefs its not a bad thing to have, i just find it completely illogical and his use of sarcasm highlights the main problems i have with religion and god
"Finally, you mispelled the word prophet with referring to a person. I hope you will profit, or gain knowledge, from the scriptures.
Have a blessed day! : ) [/i][/color]
Yes, I mispelled "prophet" (actually I used the wrong spelling) and yes I was pissed at myself for doing so. I blame the Guinness.
And by the way, I don't think you're going to find too much sympathy for Christian "ridicule and mockery". I'd say you guys have had a pretty good run. You just happen to be living in the wrong era and your belief system is on borrowed time.
I'll trust Eddie's own words from his Nashville solo show.
"I don't believe in a god"
Jesus isnt coming back.....find a new philosophy.
really? I didn't catch that
I'm not surprised...it is pretty evident in his writings
I'm convinced that at some point popular figures will emerge and be honest about their beliefs....this will lead to many more people doing so...atheism isn't as taboo as it used to be.
Over the years civilizations have created and worshiped many different gods....there is a famous quote that "atheists only believe in one less god than you do" which always made perfect sense to me
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Comments
that is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just no..... your first point is just plain wrong
Stand corrected then.
Have you ever looked into it? Well, hear is an article you should read:
http://www.poststar.com/articles/2009/0 ... 600610.txt
excerpt from above article:
Ignored in the story is the long list of scientists who hold religious views similar to Dr. Collins. Do the secularists demand an oath of atheism before people are deemed respectable scientists? We have seen the results of non-faith carried to its extreme in the Nazi laboratory of Josef Mengele and other "scientists" unconstrained by a higher authority.
(and)
Dr. Collins sees no conflict between science and faith. In 2007, he said this at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington: "...in the scientific community there is often an unwritten taboo about discussing one’s spiritual leanings, so many assume that scientists are generally godless materialists. That’s not actually true — a recent survey found that 40 percent of working scientists believe in a God to whom one may pray in expectation of an answer. And that number has changed very little over the past century."
Also, not all people who believe in God are simply afraid of death or how the world will end. I'm sure some do fit this description, but that shouldn't define a believer or their motive. Some people have simply seen the amazing complexity of life around them, realized that it couldn't have happened by chance, and humble themselves to realize there is a higher force at work than random mutation (which is a dead end anyway). Why is that so hard to believe? And why do people always want to fight it?
I saw the most part, but still I was just shocked at that statement...seemed kind of ignorant to me...but, I'm not starting a heated convo or anything.
I don't really believe in Jesus, or any specific faith....I guess there is a good chance that for that I'm unintelligent. :roll:
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well most of the "intelligent" believe in god because most of the people in the world believe in god but if you took the top fifth percentile of the people in the world you would find a higher proportion of atheists as if you took a similar number of people lower down on the intelligence scale.
EDIT:
and this shows my point here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosit ... telligence
I pulled this from the article given : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosit ... telligence
And sadly enough, I find it true these days. I used to be a part of that crowd. I believed that I was too smart to believe in a myth. After all, I was valedictorian of my high school class and a biology major. (raised catholic, too, which really destroyed any notions I had of a real God.) I figured Mary probably got knocked up by Joseph and made up the whole angel visiting story to avoid certain death for premarital sex. I believed that a series of random genetic mutations caused bacterium to grow into plants and animals; first reptiles, then amphibians, then birds, then mammals. (although there is some confusion regarding birds descending from reptiles, too). I ate all it up and regurgitated it with straight A's. I could do whatever I wanted, not to be tied down by dogmatic morals. I ended up dropping out of college the first time around, so I could party full time. Spent almost 3 years drunk and high. And unfortunately empty. Nothing filled the emptiness.
Not until I faced my own pride and admitted defeat. Saw through the lies. Saw the world I had bought into and tried to create for myself.
They say christianity is the easiest religion to belong to. All you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus was the son of God, died to make you right with God, and rose from the dead. And invite him to live through you and change you from the inside out.
In this intellectually driven world, this is one of the HARDEST things to do!
People assume you're unintelligent and simpleminded. (wrong) They think you blindly accept whatever the religious community tells you. (Which is also wrong) And they think that christians never question anything, which is also ridiculous. There are plenty of things in the Bible that I don't agree with. But I talk about it with God and ask him to show me why. There are plenty of things that I still haven't heard back about!
But I can accept that He/She is there. And if anything, my intelligence has improved without the beer and pot!
No one will know who was right and who was wrong until we die or the end comes, so there really isn't anymore I can say. I just encourage anyone who reads this to not be afraid to go against the grain. Search for truth. It has a way of revealing itself to those who aren't afraid to lay down their self images and start anew.
good stuff....I remember sitting in church when I first started having doubts (probably 15-16) and thinking..."couldn't there have been a better way for god to get the word out instead of torturing poor Jesus?" I mean come on....all it would take is some messages in the clouds or hell come down to earth and stomp a few people and we'll believe your story man!!
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2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
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hi, what i would use instead of "religious" is sacred in the meaning that every single human being or living being has to be respected. call it soul, energy, god whatever, i call it life, it must be respected. i think the most terrible sin (i hate this word) we can ever do is not loving. no one can give a definite answer if god exists or not. but my question is: is that so important? i mean why don't we concentrate on this life? why don't we do all our efforts to enjoy it and to make the other happy or loved? just for life for, this life, not for that to come.
do you remember chris (into the wild) happiness is true only when shared...
ciao
stefania
I'm not saying its dumb to believe in god i was just arguing against the point that most of the intelligent people believe in god which isn't really the case, i think dont its dumb to believe in god at all, a lot of intelligent people(like my parents) i know believe and god and i wouldn't hold it against them but i personally i just find the whole concept ridiculous and outdated
1. Stefania - You're awesome!!!
2. Ever noticed how many people turn to religion after they have fucked up either on drugs, or alcohol, or just horrible life choices. I see soooo many people being "saved" by religion. It wasn't good enough for them before they hit rock bottom - but now they have, and everyone else has turned their backs - religion is right there ready to add a few more numbers to their masses.
3. Yeah, I had two points, but now I got three. If religion is all about love and the righteous - why the hell are the churches so goddamn rich. Why do you have to continually make donations in order to be saved? What is with this bullshit!?
Religion can go to hell if you ask me. It simply manufactures hate, greed, and marginalisation.
The only creed we should be living by, is the one stated by Stefania. Quit searching for excuses to hate someone, and share the love.
Peace out!
ciao stefania
yeah i agree wholeheartedly with yea, although its not why i became atheist.
Stefania is dead on the money too
I believe in Jesus Christ and am a huge fan of Pearl Jam. Very glad to know there are others in the club who share the same belief as I do. Also, Christian Jammer is a cute name!
HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
I've wondered that myself so many times!!!
The only hate I've seen within this thread has been towards christians and religions. What negative thing has anyone written who was arguing in favor of God?
I believe the original intent of the author of this thread was to find out if Eddie had claimed a particular faith, as he has not proclaimed himself to be an atheist. He has never said, "I deny the existence of God". Quite the contrary. (By the way, the definition of an atheist is one who denies the existence of God).
Whether Eddie believes in God or not doesn't really matter to the music. It something that spiritually minded people are curious about, thats all. Its what you get out of the lyrics. I see a lot of spiritual references, which I suppose is only natural since I do proudly believe in God. To those that don't, I would assume you wouldn't agree. Thats alright. I'm not going to attack you. I don't hate you. And I haven't acted in such a manner.
So why all the hate about God, while promoting Love? I don't get it.
(BTW, raised and still practice as a RC.)
you seem like a decent dude who's not trying to use his religion to hurt anyone but it's sad to see an adult believe in children's stories for comfort in a confusing world.
if it brings you comfort, that's nice. i just hope there aren't any kids involved in or being subjected to this belief system because there is an entire universe of knowledge they won't be privy to. it is a sad thing for any human being to be born into such an exciting time of scientific discovery only to have it brainwashed away from them while they're still not of mind to see through it.
atheism is the only conclusion at this point and to deny that, is to deny the progress we've made as a species in the last few hundred years (or several million depending how you look at it).
Yes, much like the neat little story of evolution. The theory that couldn't become fact because nobody has ever proven it. One of my favorite tales is about the giant mass of matter floating in infinite space, that one day decided to explode. It formed galaxy's, stars, solar systems, and planets all on it's own. One of the planets had something we call "soup" on it. From this soup formed life, living cells. But the cells were not happy just being cells, so they decided to become plants, trees, fish, animals and even people.
I realize that the Bible may seem like stories to some. The odds of getting the chemical make up of a cell randomly together in the right proportions are so astronomical it's considered a statistical impossibility. Nothing has ever been witnessed, reported or documented evolving, and life has never been created in a lab. I just want people to realize that the atheist view of creation sounds as much of a fairy tale as my belief in a supreme God who designed and created everything for a reason and purpose.
Again, to repeat, I think you're probably a well meaning guy. However, I have zero respect for your ideas or belief system because I believe you are an adult and not a child. Therefor, I must point out the absurdities of your ignorant and simple wish-thinking. I don't have all night to do so and there are much smarter men then I who've been writing rebuttals to the weak-minded for thousands of years on this topic so I'll just mention a few things that come to mind.
Firstly, in response to your quote above, cells were not unhappy being cells and so just "decided to become plants". This shows your ignorance towards science. You are probably one of those creationists who think science claims we "came from monkeys" (which is not what evolution claims at all). One of the beautiful facts of my argument is that I've studied yours and I can use your claims against you. You, however (and most of your ilk) are so sadly ignorant (a default position you would have to be in to allow yourself to be subjected to irrational belief) that you have no idea what you are arguing against. This is the first sign of the unprepared, anti-intellectual.
And so I ask you, what is more plausible; that single cells, through the use of DNA and RNA by way of the recombination of code understood in four parts A,T,C and G, EVOLVED over millions of years into other, more complex organisms or that a god, an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being created ONE man and didn't have the fucking foresight to realize he would get LONELY and thus created him a woman to keep him company? So this all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful god's first plan was a fucking failure?
"Oh shit! I put this ONE guy in a garden with all this fruit and knowledge and other cool animals for him to hang out with but I never REALIZED he might get lonely! No, sweat, I'm god. I'll just take a rib and create a 'woman' for him to hang out with. I'm sure that will go well! What?! They ate the fucking fruit?! Shit! Didn't see that coming. But maybe I should have because after-all, I did give them free-will! Dammit, I knew that was going to bite me in the ass. Well, you know what, now you two are banned, that's right, get the fuck out. You've ruined it for everyone. What, the snake (aka Devil) made you do it? Hmmm, that's odd because the Devil is Lucifer, a soul I banished and sent to Hell, but wait a minute; if you two are the first souls I've created, then how the hell (pardon me) can there have been the life lived and then condemned of Lucifer's in the first place?!! Arg! This whole universe (although I never bothered to mention anything about a universe in the subsequent writings of the profits) I've created get's soooo dammed confusing sometimes!! And wait a minute. Bend over for a second, you two. What the fuck is that?! Are those assholes?! Who put those there?! I created you in my image! What are you doing with orafices meant to expel digested waste?! I don't "eat" and I most certainly do not "shit". But then again, I did REST (I get TIRED?) on that seventh day, which would imply the expulsion and therefor the reconstitution of energy so maybe I do consume and defecate. Oh, this is all becoming too much! Holy fuck, are those coccyx, appendicis and wisdom teeth as well?! Not to mention, Adam, why the hell do you have nipples?!!!"
I wonder if you laughed at this. You see, I used satire (the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize) to completely deflate your god. I did this while drunk and half asleep. Should I thank Him for the free will or should I thank Ms. Zing, my eight-grade English teacher? I'll let you decide that. In the mean time, I challenge you to argue cohesively (or incohesiveIy or non-cohesively, if you'd like) to satirize the scientific point of view with an ounce of humor. I bet you can't. In fact, I know you can't. And not ONLY because you probably don't know anything about it, but because there is nothing FUNNY about it. You see, all the silliness was thrown out of it. What science proves wrong about itself, it has the courage to expel. Understand that religion gave way to science. Just as alchemy gave way to chemistry and astrology gave way to astronomy. It is your belief system that can be mocked, not because it is just to pick on the weak but because it is right to expose the liar.
And therefor, I'm not tooting my own horn here by admitting the above rant of a rambling drunk is funny because afteral, it's not my story, it's yours.
Post Script: In your last post, you called evolution "the theory that couldn't become fact because nobody has ever proven it". Yet again you expose your ignorance to your opposition. You see, in science, we prefer the word "theory" because we hold the belief that an idea is only "fact" until it has been disproved. That is the beauty of the system. Nothing is absolute. There is still a chance, however remote, that the apple may fall UP. This is not to discount what we hold as theories to be weak or unsupported. In fact, it is quite the opposite. A theory only becomes so after much scrutiny and is always replaceable in the face of new evidence. If you were clever enough, you might see in such open-mindedness the opportunity for god to reveal himself to the atheist or person of science and in that case convert him or her. The beauty of science is that should such a "miracle" occur, our deductive reasoning would have no choice but to make of us converts. The problem with your argument (which is an argument man's been working on for thousands of years) is that it, as of yet, holds up quite poorly to the scrutiny of deductive reasoning, just as do the stories of Zeus, Isis, Humpty Dumpty and Three Little Pigs.
Good night.
I don't want to make this personal, so I won't tell you what your rant made you look like to me, but I will tell you that it didn't give much information in regards to your scientific postion. It really just sounded like a lot of cocky hate spewed onto the page.
Also, I agree with walkthehemisphere that I wouldn't lose respect for Ed over his beliefs. Now if he said things like you do or acted like you, thats a different story. Fortunately he doesn't. He seems to really believe in Love.
I just want to clear up a very ignorant stereotype that you seem to be guilty of. Not all christians are stupid or haven't studied science. In an earlier post, you suggested that, as a christian, my children would not be exposed to the scientific world and would be missing out on educational opportunities. That is SO absurd. Where did you pull that misguided thought from? Do you get all of your information about Christianity from Hollywood?
Look, if you want to convince me that the theory of macroevolution is true, show me how random mutations cause NEW INFORMATION to be created. Lets start there because most random mutations cause a LOSS of information, jumbles information, or repeats information within the genes. This is usually detrimental to the animal or cell. It also generally doesn't occur on a sex cell. The mutation can only be passed down to offspring if it occurs withing the gametes (sex cells). This lessens chances considerably of passing on mutated genes.
Also, at the biochemical level, cells function so perfectly, they are so finely tuned, that if any part isn't working correctly, the cell won't work. So while something like, lets say, the eye is evolving, how could all of the intricate parts be made (without new info) and passed down (when mutations rarely occur on gametes) and without being helpful to the animal. Cause that is the backbone of evolution, right? That the mutation helps the animal (cell or whatever) and therefore occurs more frequently.
I have to go to work, so I can't keep writing, but I leave one last point about evolution.
Microevolution is what Darwin observed and wrote about. We can see it. Changes in gene alleles that change the traits of things that they already have. Whether its causing helpful traits to dominate or supressing less helpful genes, it is changes within the type of animal. Dog breeds, plant varieties, etc.
People, and I won't just say Darwin, took a leap of faith based on this observance and claimed that it occured on a grand scale , and that a single cell evolved into all life as we know it. Yes, a leap of faith. Show me the real mechanism of macroevolution and I will believe you. I long to, to tell you the truth. I seek truth.
But you can't show me, can you? I'd have to accept it based on faith.
Right on!!! I totally agree with you 100%. And it IS like a religious experience to see them live!!!
In my first response to you I would like to comment on your "funny" and "comical" rendition of the garden. You are not funny at all. If fact you are offensive and uncouth! Why are you making fun of Creation? That was the beginning of life. Those were living and breathing people, not just a children's bedtime story.
Since you like to research and learn in order to have a good argument reflect on these verses:
Hebrews 11:3 "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible."
Isaiah 40:26 "Lif your eyes and look to the heaven: who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing."
Isaiah 45:7-12 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things. You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the Lord, have created it. It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled (or assembled) their starry hosts."
God created everything!! If you want to research more either put down the bottle and pick up the bible or go to http://www.drdino.com.
Finally, you mispelled the word prophet with referring to a person. I hope you will profit, or gain knowledge, from the scriptures.
Have a blessed day! : )
is this sarcasm?? cause i really hope it is, btw according to my parents 09/02/91 santa is real
Yes, I mispelled "prophet" (actually I used the wrong spelling) and yes I was pissed at myself for doing so. I blame the Guinness.
And by the way, I don't think you're going to find too much sympathy for Christian "ridicule and mockery". I'd say you guys have had a pretty good run. You just happen to be living in the wrong era and your belief system is on borrowed time.
Best of luck to you.
listen to faithful it pretty much somes up what eddie thinks about religion.
"I don't believe in a god"
Jesus isnt coming back.....find a new philosophy.
I saw a wino eating grapes, I said, "Dude, you have to wait"
really? I didn't catch that
I'm not surprised...it is pretty evident in his writings
I'm convinced that at some point popular figures will emerge and be honest about their beliefs....this will lead to many more people doing so...atheism isn't as taboo as it used to be.
Over the years civilizations have created and worshiped many different gods....there is a famous quote that "atheists only believe in one less god than you do" which always made perfect sense to me
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FARDDcdFaQ
http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawk ... end=1&ob=4
I saw a wino eating grapes, I said, "Dude, you have to wait"