Jesus and Eddie: someone has to say it

Alsa

Seek My Part wrote:

Why does everything have to be religious? Let me ask it again, why does everything have to be religious? Religion is an absolute. People who say they are one religion or another have just reached the point of never questioning anything or themselves again. They have already hit the end of the journey and have said that I am "this" or I am "that," and they want everyone else in the world to make a decision right now or else. They have to know. For what reason do they have to know. If it is out of curiosity than ok, but it never is. It is about "Are you with me or are you not?" The funny thing that with almost every religion (especially Christianity) the basis for that religion is accepting everyone and love. Religion should be personal and the whole community aspect of it causes people to feel a need to categorize themselves. Well, I personally think that deep down inside, Eddie and the rest of PJ are still on the journey. They have accepted some things as true in their minds, but have not made any absolute answers and have not categorized themselves. They respect the process of continuously added to their ideas of religion, spirituality, etc. What I think they do know for sure is that typical religious people are so set in their ways that they never evolve and are now so far behind reality . Yet, they accept you and don't categorize you. However, they are categorized for that as atheists or ant-religious. Well, if continuing to better yourself and to follow love and to never reach an absolute ending truth is anti-religious then "LETS' CATEGORIZE THEM AS ANTI-RELIGIOUS" and I be the first one to join them. Anti-religion is the new religion and we don't need anyone praying for us. Why don't you do something that is harder then praying for us and just accept us and try to challenge yourself to evolve.

Religious people are so afraid about how the world will end and if they are ready, when in fact they are the ones who may cause the world to end.

You couldnt have described things better mate, and Ill join the anti-religion group too ;p

Ms. Haiku

Well, it's interesting - if you had a chance to talk with a bandmember what would the first question be? Maybe the OPs would be questions about self-identity, maybe mine would be about the floating feeling in Given to Fly. There is so much beauty, and on the flipside so much pain within the world. I've let go trying to know so many answers that have no relevance to my life, even though Pearl Jam has affected my life incredibly. I mean I don't buy records the day they come out for any other artist Also, there was definitely a time when I would have wanted the time to talk on deeper issues with the bandmembers. It's just gone.

Over the years the more I wanted to know about the bandmembers became more and more relevant to the words and music of the songs, the guts and glory of Pearl Jam, and possibly less about the path to those songs. After a good concert I would want to know more about them, more about how they think etc, but after my first excellent PJ concert, which was about 12 years into PJ fandom, I wanted to know when I could see them again Ohhhhwheeeee I have a one-track mind, now.

The Camaros Hood

october22 wrote:

walkthehemisphere wrote:

But the cells were not happy just being cells, so they decided to become plants, trees, fish, animals and even people. I just want people to realize that the atheist view of creation sounds as much of a fairy tale as my belief in a supreme God who designed and created everything for a reason and purpose.

Again, to repeat, I think you're probably a well meaning guy. However, I have zero respect for your ideas or belief system because I believe you are an adult and not a child. Therefor, I must point out the absurdities of your ignorant and simple wish-thinking. I don't have all night to do so and there are much smarter men then I who've been writing rebuttals to the weak-minded for thousands of years on this topic so I'll just mention a few things that come to mind.

Firstly, in response to your quote above, cells were not unhappy being cells and so just "decided to become plants". This shows your ignorance towards science. You are probably one of those creationists who think science claims we "came from monkeys" (which is not what evolution claims at all). One of the beautiful facts of my argument is that I've studied yours and I can use your claims against you. You, however (and most of your ilk) are so sadly ignorant (a default position you would have to be in to allow yourself to be subjected to irrational belief) that you have no idea what you are arguing against. This is the first sign of the unprepared, anti-intellectual.

And so I ask you, what is more plausible; that single cells, through the use of DNA and RNA by way of the recombination of code understood in four parts A,T,C and G, EVOLVED over millions of years into other, more complex organisms or that a god, an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being created ONE man and didn't have the fucking foresight to realize he would get LONELY and thus created him a woman to keep him company? So this all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful god's first plan was a fucking failure?

"Oh shit! I put this ONE guy in a garden with all this fruit and knowledge and other cool animals for him to hang out with but I never REALIZED he might get lonely! No, sweat, I'm god. I'll just take a rib and create a 'woman' for him to hang out with. I'm sure that will go well! What?! They ate the fucking fruit?! Shit! Didn't see that coming. But maybe I should have because after-all, I did give them free-will! Dammit, I knew that was going to bite me in the ass. Well, you know what, now you two are banned, that's right, get the fuck out. You've ruined it for everyone. What, the snake (aka Devil) made you do it? Hmmm, that's odd because the Devil is Lucifer, a soul I banished and sent to Hell, but wait a minute; if you two are the first souls I've created, then how the hell (pardon me) can there have been the life lived and then condemned of Lucifer's in the first place?!! Arg! This whole universe (although I never bothered to mention anything about a universe in the subsequent writings of the profits) I've created get's soooo dammed confusing sometimes!! And wait a minute. Bend over for a second, you two. What the fuck is that?! Are those assholes?! Who put those there?! I created you in my image! What are you doing with orafices meant to expel digested waste?! I don't "eat" and I most certainly do not "shit". But then again, I did REST (I get TIRED?) on that seventh day, which would imply the expulsion and therefor the reconstitution of energy so maybe I do consume and defecate. Oh, this is all becoming too much! Holy fuck, are those coccyx, appendicis and wisdom teeth as well?! Not to mention, Adam, why the hell do you have nipples?!!!"

I wonder if you laughed at this. You see, I used satire (the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize) to completely deflate your god. I did this while drunk and half asleep. Should I thank Him for the free will or should I thank Ms. Zing, my eight-grade English teacher? I'll let you decide that. In the mean time, I challenge you to argue cohesively (or incohesiveIy or non-cohesively, if you'd like) to satirize the scientific point of view with an ounce of humor. I bet you can't. In fact, I know you can't. And not ONLY because you probably don't know anything about it, but because there is nothing FUNNY about it. You see, all the silliness was thrown out of it. What science proves wrong about itself, it has the courage to expel. Understand that religion gave way to science. Just as alchemy gave way to chemistry and astrology gave way to astronomy. It is your belief system that can be mocked, not because it is just to pick on the weak but because it is right to expose the liar.

And therefor, I'm not tooting my own horn here by admitting the above rant of a rambling drunk is funny because afteral, it's not my story, it's yours.


Post Script: In your last post, you called evolution "the theory that couldn't become fact because nobody has ever proven it". Yet again you expose your ignorance to your opposition. You see, in science, we prefer the word "theory" because we hold the belief that an idea is only "fact" until it has been disproved. That is the beauty of the system. Nothing is absolute. There is still a chance, however remote, that the apple may fall UP. This is not to discount what we hold as theories to be weak or unsupported. In fact, it is quite the opposite. A theory only becomes so after much scrutiny and is always replaceable in the face of new evidence. If you were clever enough, you might see in such open-mindedness the opportunity for god to reveal himself to the atheist or person of science and in that case convert him or her. The beauty of science is that should such a "miracle" occur, our deductive reasoning would have no choice but to make of us converts. The problem with your argument (which is an argument man's been working on for thousands of years) is that it, as of yet, holds up quite poorly to the scrutiny of deductive reasoning, just as do the stories of Zeus, Isis, Humpty Dumpty and Three Little Pigs.

Good night.

Fucking hilarious!!

EddieLedBetter

Gern Blansten wrote:

Devote Myself wrote:

"I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor. [5]

I pulled this from the article given : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosit ... telligence

And sadly enough, I find it true these days. I used to be a part of that crowd. I believed that I was too smart to believe in a myth. After all, I was valedictorian of my high school class and a biology major. (raised catholic, too, which really destroyed any notions I had of a real God.) I figured Mary probably got knocked up by Joseph and made up the whole angel visiting story to avoid certain death for premarital sex. I believed that a series of random genetic mutations caused bacterium to grow into plants and animals; first reptiles, then amphibians, then birds, then mammals. (although there is some confusion regarding birds descending from reptiles, too). I ate all it up and regurgitated it with straight A's. I could do whatever I wanted, not to be tied down by dogmatic morals. I ended up dropping out of college the first time around, so I could party full time. Spent almost 3 years drunk and high. And unfortunately empty. Nothing filled the emptiness.

Not until I faced my own pride and admitted defeat. Saw through the lies. Saw the world I had bought into and tried to create for myself.

They say christianity is the easiest religion to belong to. All you have to do is believe in your heart that Jesus was the son of God, died to make you right with God, and rose from the dead. And invite him to live through you and change you from the inside out.

In this intellectually driven world, this is one of the HARDEST things to do!
People assume you're unintelligent and simpleminded. (wrong) They think you blindly accept whatever the religious community tells you. (Which is also wrong) And they think that christians never question anything, which is also ridiculous. There are plenty of things in the Bible that I don't agree with. But I talk about it with God and ask him to show me why. There are plenty of things that I still haven't heard back about!


But I can accept that He/She is there. And if anything, my intelligence has improved without the beer and pot!

No one will know who was right and who was wrong until we die or the end comes, so there really isn't anymore I can say. I just encourage anyone who reads this to not be afraid to go against the grain. Search for truth. It has a way of revealing itself to those who aren't afraid to lay down their self images and start anew.

good stuff....I remember sitting in church when I first started having doubts (probably 15-16) and thinking..."couldn't there have been a better way for god to get the word out instead of torturing poor Jesus?" I mean come on....all it would take is some messages in the clouds or hell come down to earth and stomp a few people and we'll believe your story man!!

Where would the love of offering man free will be in that? If God straight up showed up at your door and told you he made you and performed miracles right in front of your eyes how could you not believe? There is no free will in that. That is being forced. Instead his message is subtle and unchanging leaving room for doubt so you can decide for yourself to have faith. Definitely a hard message to grasp but coming to know something like God isnt easy.

Gern Blansten

that isn't being forced....that is being given an informed decision to make

Without a face to face offer I have received nothing from god.

Have fun with that...

BinauralJam

Jesus was a black dude
a very special man
Jesus was a black dude
not some white guy
with a tan
Jesus was a black dude
as everybody knows
Jesus, ah ha, called everybody bro.

u have to sing this!!!

Brain of Dave

Evergreen wrote:

I think Eddie stated his beliefs in a recent interview...

"Is there one book that you have read that has been life-changing for you?
Jennifer Coppertino, New York

One that jumps to mind is Cat’s Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut. He talks about being a humanist, about it being a little different from being an atheist, which had a profound effect on me. I ended up reading pretty much everything he wrote after that, two, three, four, five times. The only other author who’s had a similar effect has been Charles Bukowski, who opens your eyes to the fact that there’s beauty in everybody’s life. The life of someone on the lowest rung of the ladder is as colourful and meaningful, if not more, as some character in an F Scott Fitzgerald novel. So it makes you realize that we are all individuals and we all have something going on that is worthy of introspection and respect."

and


"You’ve been lined with David Lynch’s Transcendental Meditation movement; you’ve worn an Aleister Crowley t-shirt and you’ve stated that you’re an atheist. What do you personally believe in and how did you get there?
Stephan Rott, Germany

Well it changes! And I think we have to be flexible. Any belief system that is inflexible, closed off to other belief systems, is profoundly unhealthy. I also think that if you look at life as a long line of evolutionary changes that started billions of years ago, from little things crawling in the mud, and the you realise where we’ve got to now, that is a remarkable set of circumstances. There is more magic in that, for me, than someone creating the planet in six days and taking a day off. When you realize how long humanity has taken to get to this point, it makes you respect another person’s life in a deeper and broader sense. I wouldn’t’ think of killing anybody because their lineage goes back to the primordial seas, not because there’s some eye in the sky, looking out for how many commandments you’re going to break."

After skimming through all this debate bull shit, this seems to be the only poast that has anything to with the topic asked so I thank you!

I remember watching the Iconoclasts episode featuring Ed with Laid Hamilton when they went up in the helicopter. They saw two circular rainbows when up in the skies of Hawaii. When they got back into the ground, a star struck Ed said to the camera that the pilot and Laird had just introduced him to God.

Who is the "Love Boat Captain"? Ed is crying out, "God, what do you say?" in Marker In the Sand, but also says, "God is nowhere to be found".

The video for "Do the Evolution" shows the world being created through the evolutionary process and not that of intelligent design.

"Faithfull" I think speaks against organized religion, the two F's in "full" like "full of shit", buts thats just my opinion.

eric75surf

I beleive people are spiritual sometimes, but some deny the existence of any type of diety. Some people beleive in a supreme being on good days...and perhaps the same individual won't beleive in a higher being the nex, cuz of a bad day. Pearl Jam was young in 1998...and it is possible some members are religiousor spiritual (a bit of differnce between the too, I think) . How much difference does it make if they are or aren't...I myself love the music, and beleive it comes from a spritual source because as mentioned earlier people are spiritual beings. Einstein claimed to be an atheist all his life...until the end of his life where he said "everything works out too perfect in the universe"....The elegance of an atom...or photoflourescent light from a deep sea fish. I myself find it easy to be spiritual and beleive in concepts such as evolutin etc...I studied science and know what's going on at the level of the DNA and mutation. At this very moment mutations are occuring in billions of people all over the world..one may be beneficial..and if he/she reproduces a new special, hopefully good, type of human (same species) is born...Ok sorry about the ramble

pandora

Well I couldn't tell you if Eddie believes in Jesus but I know Jesus believes in Eddie
an amazing spirit Ed is

drebin76

walkthehemisphere wrote:

In reference to the above post, the interview with Jeanine Garafalo is the one I had mentioned as the only reference I've found, and its 11 years old. I'm wondering if there is any updated info, or a more accurate discussion with Ed about the topic. I haven't found a quote by Ed claiming outright to be an atheist, a christian, agnostic, or whatever. Back in 1998, he seemed to have a lot of questions about God. And its hard to not be turned off to force fed faith. But I'm wondering what answers he's gotten since then and how his views have evolved. Especially since having children. I don't think you can appreciate the mystery and miracle of life until you help to create one and see it enter the world. And see that it has its own soul.

I also think that is why "everything has to be religious". (Well, i hate the term religious, actually. it simply conjurs up images of hypocrites and rules). But I think it has to do with our souls. This is my theory. As human beings, we are born with souls that are connected to God. But when we "lose our innocence" or make that first deliberate decision to break the basic moral code (that all humans seem to inexplicably have), that connection is severed. And we spend the rest of our lives either trying to find our way back, running away from, or just filling the hole with whatever we can: work, pleasure, objects, etc
So every human has to deal with this faith issue throughout their lives. A lot of PJ lyrics remind me of wrestling with those issues.

You seem to mix up religion and faith. Someone can have faith, but not feel the need to apply it to any book. religion is ...er... holy litterature, for lack of a better expression.
I have faith, but will never, ever shackle it to one book or another. Claiming you're Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever you may be, just adds that feel of righteousness to something that should be so simple.

And as for Pearl Jam and their faith, let it be theirs, we're here for their music, their songs, and the feeling we all get when they play for us... The rest, is theirs...

dougfloyd

walkthehemisphere wrote:

I think this is one of the questions that keeps me listening and anticipating. The first things i notice in the lyrics are christian references.(i don't want to list them all, but there are plenty ex: the first six songs on Yield). I often forget and get lost in the fact that PJ is a cultural/political force in this country. To be painted into a corner or be labeled as this or that is something they have made every effort to avoid. Now when some one asks, what is PJ? The answer isn't a grunge band or an alternative band it's one of the most influential rock and roll bands ever. What is rock and roll? well that's what ever you make it to be. Sounds really corny, but that's the only conclusion i can come to.

I would just add (regarding the songs on Yield) that the lyrics on that album were influenced by Ed reading Daniel Quinn's book Ishmael. You should check it out, it's a good read.

As for Ed's religious beliefs, I guess only he knows but here's what on says on the 7/8/03 bootleg at the end of Faithful:

"I said faith in something bigger I don't know about that,
It's faith that it's all going to work out"

theoceansmademe

dougfloyd wrote:

walkthehemisphere wrote:

I think this is one of the questions that keeps me listening and anticipating. The first things i notice in the lyrics are christian references.(i don't want to list them all, but there are plenty ex: the first six songs on Yield). I often forget and get lost in the fact that PJ is a cultural/political force in this country. To be painted into a corner or be labeled as this or that is something they have made every effort to avoid. Now when some one asks, what is PJ? The answer isn't a grunge band or an alternative band it's one of the most influential rock and roll bands ever. What is rock and roll? well that's what ever you make it to be. Sounds really corny, but that's the only conclusion i can come to.

I would just add (regarding the songs on Yield) that the lyrics on that album were influenced by Ed reading Daniel Quinn's book Ishmael. You should check it out, it's a good read.

As for Ed's religious beliefs, I guess only he knows but here's what on says on the 7/8/03 bootleg at the end of Faithful:

"I said faith in something bigger I don't know about that,
It's faith that it's all going to work out"

Ishmael and My Ishmael are great books and I agree Yield was greatly influenced by the work of Mr. Quinn.

You are also right about Ed's comments after faithful. That's the DVD show. He was clear about his questions with of a there being a God.

onawizardonawhale

One of the biggest reasons I connect with this band is the fact that they, and Eddie in particular, aren't afraid to question their "beliefs." Osho said "Doubt is not a sin, it is a sign of your intelligence." It seems like typical Christian arrogance to try and take religious meaning from the lyrics. My understanding from the collective lyrics, is that Ed trancends either believing or not believing in god. There's no need to label it. By saying one believes in god, aren't you inferring that it's possible for god to not exist? It doesn't really matter in the end. One believing or not believing has no effect on what "is." It's an entirely personal journey, and all about perspective.

Religion divides, spirituality unites. There's a higher spiritual plane when you get past so-called beliefs. From the lyrics and interviews, it seems like Ed is at that place, and it is beautiful. Peace, love, and Pearl Jam.

MK1980

'Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends. You are my friends...'

Pearl Jam has often helped me through tough times in life...and will continue to. Their music is uplifting, beautiful and haunting all at the same time.

'...yet I'm still holding tight, to this distant dream of light, and that somehow I'll survive, but this night has been a long one, waiting on a word (sun),.. that never (just don't) comes...'

Believers (my-self included) should think about the present tense more often, because it 'seems to me it's getting harder to find an approach and a way to live...' rather than either ' re-digesting past regrets' or wishing for something that will happen when it happens.

philthehip

I really don't want to get into this debate but have a question for the op. What scientific community are you talking about here? I am a atheist and I don't know many who support creationism. Just wanted some evidence.

pandora

MK1980 wrote:

'Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends. You are my friends...'

Pearl Jam has often helped me through tough times in life...and will continue to. Their music is uplifting, beautiful and haunting all at the same time.

'...yet I'm still holding tight, to this distant dream of light, and that somehow I'll survive, but this night has been a long one, waiting on a word (sun),.. that never (just don't) comes...'

Believers (my-self included) should think about the present tense more often, because it 'seems to me it's getting harder to find an approach and a way to live...' rather than either ' re-digesting past regrets' or wishing for something that will happen when it happens.

I like your post, Pearl Jam helps me to live in the present tense. To appreciate my life, my love and God's world. I think it grounds me to here instead of the longing I have had in the past to know "there". As a believer that can be all encompassing to the point of missing the wonderful here God gave us. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Oceans 98

"I'd like to thank God, but I don't believe in it, for all of his love and support." -- Eddie Vedder
June 24, 2008, Madison Square Garden, New York, NY

Gern Blansten

"....and there is no God with a plan, it's sad"......Eddie "Sad"

morello

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread but was listening to one of the Philly shows the other night & at one point Ed said somehting about God...... 'if there is one'.... So there ya go. That was his stance as of October last year.

Oceans 98

morello wrote:

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread but was listening to one of the Philly shows the other night & at one point Ed said somehting about God...... 'if there is one'.... So there ya go. That was his stance as of October last year.

So Eddie is an agnostic, who cares, he writes good music.