hey... you anti-huge corporation people who are freaking out

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  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    decides2dream wrote:
    bottomline....in this discussion
    18 years with sony
    now independent and partnering with target
    somehow i fail to see the 'difference'...and if anything, for all the reasons i previously stated, i actually think the current arrangement is 'better' for pj, for fans, and for their values.......once again shows just how differently we all can view the world...

    this
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    [/gives a shit]

    and this :mrgreen:
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    edited June 2009
    decides2dream wrote:

    jeanwah...name a big corp who doesn't outsource?
    the little guys can always stay local, simply b/c they are little.
    just as the internet, we DO live in a very global community now.
    from day ONE...pearl jam has been in bed with corps....as curtis rightly points out, 18 years with SONY. if you accepted that, i don't see what the difference is here.......

    and why does having one corp instead of all of em involved...make it any *better*...?
    i actually think they are making a BETTER statement by teaming with target, then simply allowing their music in ALL the big box retailers...b/c they are teaming with a corp well KNOWN for their community works, LOTS of em, LOTS of $$$...and also it is CLEAR they are keeping up with the indie shops...to me that sends an even BETTER message. reward the corps who are following a model you admire, or at least respect....moreso than other corp models. there are always at least 2 sides, and susually more, to every choice and decision. i fail to see how one partnership is *worse* than none really, b/c bottomline, their music either way is sold in the big bad retil giants in both cases...tho in the partnership YOU are choosing/limiting who benefits from your product.

    Every big corp outsources, and yeah, it's wrong. It's killing our economy and that's why we're losing jobs left and right...because it's too expensive to manufacture anything over here. So let's give those slave shops some business! Because they'll work for pennies a day, us corps save a ton of money and add a huge profit to our bottom line! And then, we'll stock the stores in America, because America consumes the most out of any other country in the world! And then they can throw everything they consume away, so they'll buy more. and more. and more...We'll just keep burying it in landfills and let the plastic add up in the North Pacific Gyre (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/06/eveningnews/main591770.shtml) which is bigger than the United States! Yeah, sounds like a plan.

    Like I said before, attaching one sponsor's name to anything you do, is branding. When I think of Pearl Jam, I don't want to think of Target.
    Post edited by Jeanwah on
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    edited June 2009
    norm wrote:
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    [/gives a shit]

    and this :mrgreen:


    :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:



    fins, as ever, made the best TWO posts in this thread!
    his nigella lawson fantasy over kat's apple pie description....priceless! :geek:


    jeanwah, that really didn't address my point, at all.
    eh well.
    as happens often, guess i will politely agree to disagree.....and so it goes........
    Post edited by decides2dream on
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    decides2dream wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And this is why I think you're not very socially aware, because everything is not about how cheap it is.

    not to point out the obvious, but for many....'social awareness' is the least of their worries, and being able to afford their homes and put food on their tables is. i think for most of us here, thankfully, we can afford the luxury of being socially aware, and thus selective of who and where we spend our $$$....and that's also why i choose to shop at target and not walmart, b/c i DO think they are a better corp. also why i think pj is dealing with them, b/c they too want more of their fans to have access and affordability with their music. it IS absolutely ALL related.
    It's all about ME, ME, ME!!!!
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Like I said before, attaching one sponsor's name to anything you do, is branding. When I think of Pearl Jam, I don't want to think of Target.

    Well, at this point it's a done deal. So what are you going to do?

    Boycott Pearl Jam? Whine about it for however long? Or finally accept it?

    Those seem to be your only options. Only No. 1 and 3 will really ever accomplish anything.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    edited June 2009
    Jeanwah wrote:
    decides2dream wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And this is why I think you're not very socially aware, because everything is not about how cheap it is.

    not to point out the obvious, but for many....'social awareness' is the least of their worries, and being able to afford their homes and put food on their tables is. i think for most of us here, thankfully, we can afford the luxury of being socially aware, and thus selective of who and where we spend our $$$....and that's also why i choose to shop at target and not walmart, b/c i DO think they are a better corp. also why i think pj is dealing with them, b/c they too want more of their fans to have access and affordability with their music. it IS absolutely ALL related.
    It's all about ME, ME, ME!!!!

    Yeah, you're right. People should starve before shopping at Target.

    Holy shit. I'm starting to think your are an Andy Kaufman/Borat-style put on. Are we on Candid Camera?
    Post edited by slightofjeff on
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Thorns2010 wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    decides2dream wrote:
    can someone tell me exactly HOW pearl jam *should* go about selling their music if not making deals with any evil corps?
    For starters, they could distribute like they always have...without partnering with one specific sponsor. They now have a brand attached to them. Before, they didn't (yes, I know Sony was a major player but not a marketer). When I see the words Pearl Jam, I don't want to see the word Target next to it, much like Green Day's latest commercial for 21st Century Breakdown with Verizon next to theirs.


    WTF are you talking about?? I'm trying to understand your point, I really am. But your logic doesn't make any sense to me. So from what I can gather in what you are saying is that Sony doesn't market any of the bands that are signed to their labels?

    Oh, and on every Pearl Jam album you have there is a brand attached to it. Be it Epic, or J Records, or Sony.
    Is, Seller, a better word for you? Sorry, for not being more specific. Sony makes music, Target sells it. That's basically what I mean.
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Is, Seller, a better word for you? Sorry, for not being more specific. Sony makes music, Target sells it. That's basically what I mean.


    sony does not make music...they distribute music
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    norm wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Is, Seller, a better word for you? Sorry, for not being more specific. Sony makes music, Target sells it. That's basically what I mean.


    sony does not make music...they distribute music

    Exactly. Under this new deal, Target has become Pearl Jam's new distributor.

    Target = Sony in the new arrangement.

    If you were OK with one, you should be OK with other.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    Jeanwah wrote:
    decides2dream wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And this is why I think you're not very socially aware, because everything is not about how cheap it is.

    not to point out the obvious, but for many....'social awareness' is the least of their worries, and being able to afford their homes and put food on their tables is. i think for most of us here, thankfully, we can afford the luxury of being socially aware, and thus selective of who and where we spend our $$$....and that's also why i choose to shop at target and not walmart, b/c i DO think they are a better corp. also why i think pj is dealing with them, b/c they too want more of their fans to have access and affordability with their music. it IS absolutely ALL related.
    It's all about ME, ME, ME!!!!


    OMG....
    yep, THAT's exactly what i am saying........ :roll:
    i'm actually saying the opposite...but again, see post above.
    we are not at all relating on this topic, which is a shame. i do actually quite see your points, but i am also just looking at it from a different angle....also looking at life as it IS, right now...for the world, for us and sure....for lots and lots of people who truly struggle to make the best for their families. yep, a real me, me, me scenario...... :?


    anyhoo.....don't buy your CD at target, i actually won't be either as i'll probably order thru 10c.....lament the loss of your hereos, abandon them if you feel it necessary. me, i see all of pjs evolutions thru the lens of change, and i personally still see them sticking to their ideals. perhaps in a new way, but as our world changes it dictates we change and adapt and still work towards our ideals. i still see pj doing that, you may not.....neither changes what pj chooses to do and all the more i respect them for making choices based on their OWN ideas.




    and whether one distributes the music or sells the music...wtf difference does it make?
    one huge corp is another huge copr and they are all equally *evil*...no?
    ehhhh...forget it...hahahahaha...........
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    slightofjeff wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And this is why I think you're not very socially aware, because everything is not about how cheap it is.

    And I don't think you understand how basic economics works.

    If you have two identical products, but one sells for $5 cheaper than the other, that one is going to win out.

    Every. Single. Time.

    PS -- You REALLY need to stop making assumptions about my level of social awareness. You have no idea who am I, what I do, or what causes I support or do not support. It's really not cool.
    Yet, you can tell tell people that they're not very old and that's ok. I don't know anything about you...but I do know you shop at Walmart. ;)
    And not everyone will drive from store to store to find the cheapest price. Think of all that gas you've just wasted! If you're best friend or a family member opened a business, would you not support them because they have to have prices more expensive than Walmart? Would you really go out of your way to buy the cheapest or would you help a friend/family out?
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    slightofjeff wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Like I said before, attaching one sponsor's name to anything you do, is branding. When I think of Pearl Jam, I don't want to think of Target.

    Well, at this point it's a done deal. So what are you going to do?

    Boycott Pearl Jam? Whine about it for however long? Or finally accept it?

    Those seem to be your only options. Only No. 1 and 3 will really ever accomplish anything.
    I'll let you guess what I'm going to do...it may have to do with the small independent music stores...
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    norm wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Is, Seller, a better word for you? Sorry, for not being more specific. Sony makes music, Target sells it. That's basically what I mean.


    sony does not make music...they distribute music
    You're right...but you know what I meant, smartass.
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    Jeanwah wrote:
    norm wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    Is, Seller, a better word for you? Sorry, for not being more specific. Sony makes music, Target sells it. That's basically what I mean.


    sony does not make music...they distribute music
    You're right...but you know what I meant, smartass.


    no i really don't...wasn't trying to be a smartass
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    Jeanwah wrote:
    slightofjeff wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And this is why I think you're not very socially aware, because everything is not about how cheap it is.

    And I don't think you understand how basic economics works.

    If you have two identical products, but one sells for $5 cheaper than the other, that one is going to win out.

    Every. Single. Time.

    PS -- You REALLY need to stop making assumptions about my level of social awareness. You have no idea who am I, what I do, or what causes I support or do not support. It's really not cool.
    Yet, you can tell tell people that they're not very old and that's ok. I don't know anything about you...but I do know you shop at Walmart. ;)
    And not everyone will drive from store to store to find the cheapest price. Think of all that gas you've just wasted! If you're best friend or a family member opened a business, would you not support them because they have to have prices more expensive than Walmart? Would you really go out of your way to buy the cheapest or would you help a friend/family out?

    I did not mean "you sound young" as an insult to Crazy Breed. Something about his posts and his infatuation with marijuana just made him seem like a young'un. I didn't mean it as an insult at all. If he took it that way -- not sure he did -- then I apologize.

    I'm glad you brought up the gas argument. Because it is a precious commodity. And because excessive driving is bad for the environment and causes global warming.

    Let's say I need the following items/services: Bread. Diapers. Sunscreen. A package of underwear (boxers not briefs). A new tire for my Prius. An oil change. Stamps. An Applebee's gift card. Photos developed. A haircut.

    I could either: Drive to the grocery store. Drive to the clothing store. Drive to the tire store. Drive to the oil change place. Drive to the Post Office. Drive to Applebees. Drive to the Photomat. Drive to the barber.

    OR ... I could drive to Super Target.

    I could drive around for six hours, and waste ALL THAT GAS.

    OR ... I could drive to Super Target.

    I think I'm going to Super Target. It's the socially aware thing to do.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    norm wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    norm wrote:

    sony does not make music...they distribute music
    You're right...but you know what I meant, smartass.


    no i really don't...wasn't trying to be a smartass
    Ok, sorry. I'm typing so fast, basically that's what I meant, that they distribute, they don't sell direct. The two differences.
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    edited June 2009
    slightofjeff wrote:
    I'm glad you brought up the gas argument. Because it is a precious commodity. And because excessive driving is bad for the environment and causes global warming.

    Let's say I need the following items/services: Bread. Diapers. Sunscreen. A package of underwear (boxers not briefs). A new tire for my Prius. An oil change. Stamps. An Applebee's gift card. Photos developed. A haircut.

    I could either: Drive to the grocery store. Drive to the clothing store. Drive to the tire store. Drive to the oil change place. Drive to the Post Office. Drive to Applebees. Drive to the Photomat. Drive to the barber.

    OR ... I could drive to Super Target.

    I could drive around for six hours, and waste ALL THAT GAS.

    OR ... I could drive to Super Target.

    I think I'm going to Super Target. It's the socially aware thing to do.


    :mrgreen:
    that's the thing of it, isn't it?
    doing/supporting what is the best, most socially aware choice...isn't always so cut and dry, and certainly not limited to always choosing just one option...but the best option at each time. holds true at the individual level, and certainly holds true on the level of pearl jam.


    i absolutely choose to support businesses i believe in..some happen to be small, local mom and pop shops...some also happen to be big corps. again, it's not all or none. ;)




    jeanwah - don't mean to speak for norm...but i think the actual point was....so what?
    one distributes, 1 sells...wtf is the difference if simply all corp giants are evil? why is it ok to be in bed with sony, a HUGE, multinational corp....but not ok to be with target, a national giant corp? is sony somehow *better* than target, and thus, ok? bottomline...pj was in bed with sony for 18 years..who then distributed their music to ALL those giant corps and all else, also why maintaining ownership of pjs masters. now pj is doing it on their OWN...forming their own partnerships...they are making aLL their own decisions, partnering with different manufacturers, distributors, etc....but all thru their own personal corp.....and made a deal with target, along with indie shops too, to sell em. again.....why is it *worse*...whereas i actually see it as *better* in a sense........? :| i think that is where the question lies...and correct me if i am wrong norm. :)
    Post edited by decides2dream on
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    decides2dream wrote:
    yep, THAT's exactly what i am saying........ :roll:
    i'm actually saying the opposite...but again, see post above.
    we are not at all relating on this topic, which is a shame. i do actually quite see your points, but i am also just looking at it from a different angle....also looking at life as it IS, right now...for the world, for us and sure....for lots and lots of people who truly struggle to make the best for their families. yep, a real me, me, me scenario...... :?

    anyhoo.....don't buy your CD at target, i actually won't be either as i'll probably order thru 10c.....lament the loss of your hereos, abandon them if you feel it necessary. me, i see all of pjs evolutions thru the lens of change, and i personally still see them sticking to their ideals. perhaps in a new way, but as our world changes it dictates we change and adapt and still work towards our ideals. i still see pj doing that, you may not.....neither changes what pj chooses to do and all the more i respect them for making choices based on their OWN ideas.


    and whether one distributes the music or sells the music...wtf difference does it make?
    one huge corp is another huge copr and they are all equally *evil*...no?
    ehhhh...forget it...hahahahaha...........
    I do know what you're saying...for the most part. Target does appear to be more philanthropic than many other large corps, I'll give you that.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    edited June 2009
    Jeanwah wrote:
    And this is why I think you're not very socially aware, because everything is not about how cheap it is. It's about value, it's about integrity, it's about People before Profit. You don't get this at all.

    the new pj album will cost the same as the others before it? your point?

    social awareness is all well and good if you

    a) have the time
    b) have the inclination
    c) have enough money in the bank to spend the extra


    social awareness when you are a multimillionaire rock/pop musician is quite easy... but for some Joe Schmoe in Detroit who has been laid off and he has to feed his family then his social awareness becomes "where can i get bread the cheapest" he's not thinking "oh i better use O'Hennessy's Bakers... poor O'Hennessy and his Mercedes to run"

    altruism is an ideal... not a reality for many millions of people.
    Post edited by dunkman on
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.

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