i merely find it amusing how surprised, up in arms, wanting hand-holding some come by when they don't follow the rules, and there are consequences.
god forbid, people should be responsible for their actions...
now, now...don't be boring.......;)
seriously tho, getting back on topic :shock: - if one removes the whole 'shitty blog' comment.......would anyone really *fault* 10c/pj for all this? and it's NOT about following the rules, gawd forbid, tho they are there for a legit reason...but it's about RESPECTing the band, their music, their art, their chosen delivery, you know.....THEIR WANTS for their own intellectual property. beyond that......all the rest of it, totally 'debateble'....and hey, if anyone wants to get *upset* over them partnering with target or whomever else, how they choose to run their own message board, how/where/when they release info, etc...more power to em! as i've said, i see it ALL as pj being pj, as ever, doing things their way, their choice. respect intact there. c'est la vie!
i merely find it amusing how surprised, up in arms, wanting hand-holding some come by when they don't follow the rules, and there are consequences.
god forbid, people should be responsible for their actions...
now, now...don't be boring.......;)
seriously tho, getting back on topic :shock: - if one removes the whole 'shitty blog' comment.......would anyone really *fault* 10c/pj for all this? and it's NOT about following the rules, gawd forbid, tho they are there for a legit reason...but it's about RESPECTing the band, their music, their art, their chosen delivery, you know.....THEIR WANTS for their own intellectual property. beyond that......all the rest of it, totally 'debateble'....and hey, if anyone wants to get *upset* over them partnering with target or whomever else, how they choose to run their own message board, how/where/when they release info, etc...more power to em! as i've said, i see it ALL as pj being pj, as ever, doing things their way, their choice. respect intact there. c'est la vie!
saying shitty blog is immature and frankly not a good pr move
seriously tho, getting back on topic :shock: - if one removes the whole 'shitty blog' comment.......would anyone really *fault* 10c/pj for all this? and it's NOT about following the rules, gawd forbid, tho they are there for a legit reason...but it's about RESPECTing the band, their music, their art, their chosen delivery, you know.....THEIR WANTS for their own intellectual property. beyond that......all the rest of it, totally 'debateble'....and hey, if anyone wants to get *upset* over them partnering with target or whomever else, how they choose to run their own message board, how/where/when they release info, etc...more power to em! as i've said, i see it ALL as pj being pj, as ever, doing things their way, their choice. respect intact there. c'est la vie!
saying shitty blog is immature and frankly not a good pr move
agreed.
do notice that i said "if one removes the whole 'shitty blog' comment".........
bottomline....pj/10c were/are in the *right* here......even if someone made the unprofessional/immature gaffe of 'shitty blog'.......how's that for a *human element* to 10c eh?
anyhoooooooo...i'm out for the evening.....catch all you crazed fans tomorrow..........
i merely find it amusing how surprised, up in arms, wanting hand-holding some come by when they don't follow the rules, and there are consequences.
god forbid, people should be responsible for their actions...
now, now...don't be boring.......;)
seriously tho, getting back on topic :shock: - if one removes the whole 'shitty blog' comment.......would anyone really *fault* 10c/pj for all this? and it's NOT about following the rules, gawd forbid, tho they are there for a legit reason...but it's about RESPECTing the band, their music, their art, their chosen delivery, you know.....THEIR WANTS for their own intellectual property. beyond that......all the rest of it, totally 'debateble'....and hey, if anyone wants to get *upset* over them partnering with target or whomever else, how they choose to run their own message board, how/where/when they release info, etc...more power to em! as i've said, i see it ALL as pj being pj, as ever, doing things their way, their choice. respect intact there. c'est la vie!
I absolutely agree. My only problem with the whole situation was the "Shitty blog" comment (if it really happened). There are always three sides to every store 1. my side 2. your side and 3. the truth. Everything else is totally debatable and at the end of the day I'm happy knowing that I'll have a new album some time in September (I don't care where they end up selling it because there are no Targets in Canada(and I'm buying it from 10c)) and at the very least I'll see them once in the summer here in Toronto.
Enjoy the rest of the conversation and I'm now going back into official lurker status.
It always comes but it comes when it's ready and it shouldn't come sooner. You don't eat an apple pie that's half-baked, do you? The fruit must first be gently washed and peeled and lovingly sliced and diced and the dough created with the perfect ratio of ingredients so that it will be a flaky masterpiece cradling the fruit and complimenting each tasty bite. It's art...like anyone's job can be if we try.
And you know that everyone involved wants you all to enjoy and savor every tasty morsel for as long as it can last.
xo
I had an image of Nigella Lawson in a swimsuit, saying that reaaaaaaaaaally slowly.
Thank you for the info Kat.
Now can we have what you said as a sticky, to stop all of this? And can we have better communication so it doesn't get to this point in the future? It's not an unrealistic thing to ask for. Please?
It always comes but it comes when it's ready and it shouldn't come sooner. You don't eat an apple pie that's half-baked, do you? The fruit must first be gently washed and peeled and lovingly sliced and diced and the dough created with the perfect ratio of ingredients so that it will be a flaky masterpiece cradling the fruit and complimenting each tasty bite. It's art...like anyone's job can be if we try.
And you know that everyone involved wants you all to enjoy and savor every tasty morsel for as long as it can last.
xo
Kat, would you mind sharing your apple pie recipe? I'm a sucker for apple pie, and just this description made me salivate.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
i am sick o' pussies, and that includes fans and the band management...
fans, leave the management alone, they are trying their best and do a great fucking job in my opinion... management, stop yelling at the fans, they are the reason you can feed your family and they are allowed to have opinions, good and bad
I hate when people think they're the teacher and tell people on a message board to "discuss."
I hate it when people hate a thread so much they have to post in it. Kind of counterproductive don't you think?
Maybe the person that called the blog "shitty" should get banned again?
I'm gonna have to agree with the 10c here though. I listened to the crappy recording once, it was so crappy I thought it was the same song from Conan after I had heard that one.
They didn't want the audio out there, so they asked her to remove it. If I have to ask a stranger something for the 3rd time, I just might say something like "Hey Shithead, take it down" Maybe she needed a little nudge for her to realize that this is a big deal. I mean she posted Ed recordings that she knew would not be approved of right?
and... as a footnote.. RESPECT works both ways. Yeah, calling it a Shitty Blog is disrespectful... but, so is going out and crying to anyone who would listen because you were told you couldn't do something. You earn respect... it is not automatically granted... if it is granted freely... it ain't worth having.
Yes, that respect goes both ways. I've lost respect in the band that inspired me to stand up, speak out, be true to myself, don't buy into the corporate world and greed, think for myself, help out my neighbor, be a good person, and be good to the planet. Because they've done a 180 and are now on the other side of that fence.
they always were on the other side of the fence. Name me any band that isn't in it for the money. Hell even bands like fugazi and the ramones were in it to make money. I just feel bad for people like you that bought into the act of pj being anti-corporate band.
You can be in it for the money and be in it for your art/craft/values as well. If PJ was just about the money they'd play 1.5 hour long shows and never change the setlist like 80% of today's popular touring bands.
Obviously every band is in it for the money, if not, they would not be able to exist.
Maybe the person that called the blog "shitty" should get banned again?
HA!
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
some have mentioned the 3 times thing... the way I read it, this was the 3rd incident, they didn't ask her to take it down 3 times. Number one was a few months ago -- an EV solo snippet... don't know what number 2 was.
beating a dead horse at this point but there is a difference in asking 3 times for one thing or 3/3 different things. Much higher frustration in the latter... which could account for the negative comment.
It is absolutely out of hand, From the whole verizon sponsorship thing, rockband, and the dumb superduper sensational deluxe exclusive ten reissue bullcrap, to lawyers now threatening fans for a crappy recording of a live song because some huge corporation has Pearl Jam on their jock all of the sudden? For some bands this is normal practice and not surprising, but Pearl Jam has railed against these sort of things in the past. I find their new direction to be hypocritical at best. I will not renew my membership or purchase the new album. Instead I will pirate it and share it with the other 2 people who I know that might even listen to it once. And in response to the people who are going to flame me, I could care less, I have spent the last 5 plus years defending the band, hoping that there were valid reasons, other than greed, for their actions. I am done and finally willing to see the band for what they are, SELLOUTS, just like 99.50 percent of all "artists". It is a shame, considering they have inspired many people growing up to stick true to your beliefs and speak your mind, Now they remove posts from their forum and have lawyers threaten people to remove things from websites? I call bullshit, I guess their fan first mentality was just a clever marketing ploy that millions of people fell for. SCREW PEARL JAM, bought everything since ten and defended them tirelessly, until now.
"Don't you think you've got enough?" maybe not
"I had a false belief, I thought I came here to stay" -e.v.
Sorry, Zeus - you have no idea how the music biz has changed and what artists must do to promote their products. Of course the band isn't the same as it was five years ago - neither is the music biz, and I'm guessing neither are you...Wake up and realize the rules have changed...Thank the inventors of MP3s if you want to mad at anyone!.
PS. Can I have all your Pearl Jam stuff? For free? Or are you gonna sell it to pay off your bills?
I am just expecting the band to live up to standards they themselves set. I am blessed to not have to worry about my bills but thanks for asking. If I still knew any hardcore pj fans I would give them my stuff, but they are a dying breed. I would understand their "change" if they had not had enormous commercial success already, but fact of the matter is they could distribute their album solely through their website via download or shipping. I refuse to believe they need to whore themselves to corporations. The only motivating factor is greed. Again which is normal for most bands but Pearl Jam has always taken the stance of being against unnecessary greed. I am not naive enough to think that people aren't dishonest about their intentions, I am just saddened that the band I considered my favorite for more than half my life, are the same as any other corporate sellouts. Kurt was right. And if the band wants to reattain commercial success, maybe they should write a hit song instead of making mediocre music for the last half decade. People who are casual listeners won't support the band no matter what they put out. And that mp3 argument is the same one Record companies made against the cassette tape 30 plus years ago. And I guess I should blame the internet for being there when bands try to censor it. Get real, I don't care how the industry has changed. Yes I have changed but my principles have not, I still wouldn't kill or rob somebody, maybe I would do work I wouldn't have done five years ago, OUT OF NECESSITY, and if I did sell everything I had to pay my bills it would be OUT OF NECESSITY, not greed. There is a difference. I doubt the band is whoring itself because their electricity bill is past due. Please respond with relevance. It's ok, I too was once in denial. They are sellouts.
P.S.- I will listen to the new album to see if there are any surprises, I will just no longer pay for anything the band produces. To quote Ed " your a consumer, you vote everyday"
"I had a false belief, I thought I came here to stay" -e.v.
So, you get paid to do your job, right? And as you hone better skills and abilities, you probably deserve a raise, right? I don't see a rock band as any different.
Also - if you had a product that you wanted to get to as many people as possible, at an affordable price, wouldn't you try to get a fair amount of distributorship? You would need to get that product into the marketplace in order to be successful, right? And as opportunities present themselves, you'd choose the ones that would give you the most bang for your buck...but still have higher-end versions for people who can afford such things....
Anyhow this album isn't going to be sold through Target only...it will be available through all other previous avenues. The Ten reissue (and price) wasn't up to the band, but was solely the responsiblity of Sony (they're a HUGE conglomerate that nobdy had issues with, certainly much bigger than Target)...
So, I don't think anything I say is going to convince you to look at the other side of this, you've obviously made up your mind to hate a band because of how they run their business instead of how good their music is...whatever. That's your choice...I hope it makes you happy....
Hate is a strong word, I wouldn't say I hate anyone. If the band wanted to maximize profit and exposure, they have gone about it the wrong way in the past. (no videos, no ticketmaster for awhile) Why was it they did that again? I don't recall saying Target was the only place to get the cd, and have no problem with target selling the cd. I have a problem with a band that claims to be against greed, whoring themselves in a target commercial. It's as simple as that, no more, no less. I really don't understand why you feel the need to try to change my mind or opinion. This forum is hear for me to voice my opinion on the band. I've done just that and I am happy with my decision. I assume you try to change others minds to convince yourself they can do no wrong, again, been there and done that. Wake up.
P.S.- regarding the whole Sony thing, an unsigned, unknown band signs a long record deal with a major label because MAYBE it's their only shot at doing their "job", could argue it's out of necessity. The Band doesn't know if they will make it or not, I have no problem with a band trying to become successful. A band that has been successful for almost 20 years and still sells out concerts all over the world, whoring themselves on a target ad?
That is GREED, which is the norm, but i have a problem with the hypocrisy. (which this is)
the 2 reasons I have always liked the band(18 years) was their music and the way they conducted their business.
In the last half decade, both have become questionable at best.
"I had a false belief, I thought I came here to stay" -e.v.
Hate is a strong word, I wouldn't say I hate anyone. If the band wanted to maximize profit and exposure, they have gone about it the wrong way in the past. (no videos, no ticketmaster for awhile) Why was it they did that again? I don't recall saying Target was the only place to get the cd, and have no problem with target selling the cd. I have a problem with a band that claims to be against greedy corporations whoring themselves in a target commercial. It's as simple as that, no more, no less. I really don't understand why you feel the need to try to change my mind or opinion. This forum is hear for me to voice my opinion on the band. I've done just that and I am happy with my decision. I assume you try to change others minds to convince yourself they can do no wrong, again, been there and done that. Wake up.
P.S.- regarding the whole Sony thing, an unsigned, unknown band signs a long record deal with a major label because MAYBE it's their only shot at doing their "job", could argue it's out of necessity. The Band doesn't know if they will make it or not, I have no problem with a band trying to become successful. A band that has been successful for almost 20 years and still sells out concerts all over the world, whoring themselves on a target ad?
GREED, which is the norm, but i have a problem with hypocrisy. (which this is)
What's wrong with money? The more money Pearl Jam makes the more money they have at their disposal to donate to just causes. To me Pearl Jam's ideals are more about helping and affecting lives. That can be difficult to do on a large scope without any $$$
Target allows them to reach the casual fan. Like many have said, Pearl Jam is not a household name among the average Joe in the US. Rock radio and casual listeners are more worried about Nickelback and Green Day.
Radiohead released their album for what you wanted to pay. They also released it via large chains. I know I bought my physical copy at best buy.
zeusbagoose:
As someone wrote in another tread, you believed in the image and not the music.
Not saying that its bad, but you drank the cool aid.
And the Ticketmaster thing... they lost, ticketmaster still lives and you just have to pick your battles. As Kat wrote- they give a lot of money to a lot of charities. They use the money they make for good causes. Just because they are USING Target, does not mean that they are selling out their values. They are just choosing a different way of getting their message across.
It takes millions of dollars to get a record out- one that they are producing for themselves- and true, their fan base is not the same as it was 20 years ago- they got to make that money back someway. Would you want to pay 20, 30, or even 40 for a cd. No, your just going to download it.
I have nothing against money, I have nothing against Target selling their CD. as for drinking the Kool Aid, I was ten years old when I started listening to the band. I did take a lot of things they said to heart when I was growing up, I grew to understand a lot of it is Image related. I have a problem with the band promoting themselves in such a whorish way when they use to take stabs at others for doing the same thing. Blatant hypocrisy. That's all. It might be easier to defend if they would put out a great album once in awhile. Instead, they wait 3 or 4 years in between mediocre albums and wonder why their irrelevant. It's puzzling.
I also think it's great all they have done for different causes, however, I would say exposing yourself to new fans through new means doesn't mean squat if you continue to turn existing fans off.
And yes I have purchased every album, excluding ten, the day it was released to retail.
I also have downloaded copies in case the cd becomes scratched or lost. I even have most of their vinyl.
I have been a very loyal fan and I choose to no longer support this band. Deal with it.
Post edited by zeusbagoose on
"I had a false belief, I thought I came here to stay" -e.v.
I have nothing against money, I have nothing against Target selling their CD. as for drinking the Kool Aid, I was ten years old when I started listening to the band. I did take a lot of things they said to heart when I was growing up, I grew to understand a lot of it is Image related. I have a problem with the band promoting themselves in such a whorish way when they use to take stabs at others for doing the same thing. Blatant hypocrisy. That's all. It might be easier to defend if they would put out a great album once in awhile. Instead, they wait 3 or 4 years in between mediocre albums and wonder why their irrelevant. It's puzzling.
I have been a fan for many years, and while I don't like everything they have put out, I'm still about the music. Do you enjoy listening to them? does the music make you feel?
To me, what they do outside of the music is not relevant to me. Its great that they contribute to the betterment of life though their various charities, but that is not why I listen to them.
Look at the otherside of what they do, not just the image.
If you continue to idealize the band, you will always be disappointed in them.
They've said they're going to try something different this time around - "it's an experiment"... maybe it won't work.
And since we don't know that the Target commercial (which is still hearsay at this moment) is going to be for anything other than promoting their record or their tour, we might want to wait and see what transpires. If it's to sell deoderant, then I guess a whole pile of people will be angry if you want. Right now it's all speculation...
Somewhere you said that they USED to take stabs at other for selling songs for commercials...yeah, they USED to. I believe they have really softened their stance on that in the last couple of years. Anyway, I don't see it as "whoring" themselves out...
I did not say that they could do no wrong. That would be an assumption on your part. Anyway, since you were ten years old, you've never made a mistake or changed your mind about how you feel about something? Maybe when you were 8 you thought girls/guys had "cooties"...Because you may have said that then, does that mean your friends or co-workers can hold you to that now? Is it fair to assume you still feel the same way?
All I'm saying is that I think it's really unfair to hold the band to stupid or uninformed things they may have said or done in the early 1990s - most of that doesn't even apply now...esp. in the past couple of years.
And since they are an unsigned band, they have to pay for their entire tour themselves - Tours cost millions. Should they not have the opportunity to recoup those costs, even if it means doing a commercial possibly to sell their product?
It is absolutely out of hand, From the whole verizon sponsorship thing, rockband, and the dumb superduper sensational deluxe exclusive ten reissue bullcrap, to lawyers now threatening fans for a crappy recording of a live song because some huge corporation has Pearl Jam on their jock all of the sudden? For some bands this is normal practice and not surprising, but Pearl Jam has railed against these sort of things in the past. I find their new direction to be hypocritical at best. I will not renew my membership or purchase the new album. Instead I will pirate it and share it with the other 2 people who I know that might even listen to it once. And in response to the people who are going to flame me, I could care less, I have spent the last 5 plus years defending the band, hoping that there were valid reasons, other than greed, for their actions. I am done and finally willing to see the band for what they are, SELLOUTS, just like 99.50 percent of all "artists". It is a shame, considering they have inspired many people growing up to stick true to your beliefs and speak your mind, Now they remove posts from their forum and have lawyers threaten people to remove things from websites? I call bullshit, I guess their fan first mentality was just a clever marketing ploy that millions of people fell for. SCREW PEARL JAM, bought everything since ten and defended them tirelessly, until now.
"Don't you think you've got enough?" maybe not
Im gonna give you the same rebuttal i gave my graphic designer friend
Unfortunately it hasn't been 94 for a long time. I'm suprised this still shocks you bro I don't think they have become media whores, i just think that their last four albums that we have all loved, didnt sell for shit. I mean its gotta suck writing a genius album like "no code" and not having it recognized even half as much as your first record. Basically we have become fans that want everything for free or close to it. We want them to make great records but not make any money. We want them to tour extensively but not have sponsors. Its almost like if you were designing an ad for a local pizza restaurant. The head of mickey d's just so happens to stumble upon your work, calls you and asks you to make a logo for mc donalds and will pay you quadruple the amount that the pizza place did. Do you say NO? I don't think so! For one, its hard earned money, two its a chance to get your work out to the masses. At least they are the band that did try to fight the man, only to find that the "man" will generally win by default in a capitalist country .
Comments
now, now...don't be boring.......;)
seriously tho, getting back on topic :shock: - if one removes the whole 'shitty blog' comment.......would anyone really *fault* 10c/pj for all this? and it's NOT about following the rules, gawd forbid, tho they are there for a legit reason...but it's about RESPECTing the band, their music, their art, their chosen delivery, you know.....THEIR WANTS for their own intellectual property. beyond that......all the rest of it, totally 'debateble'....and hey, if anyone wants to get *upset* over them partnering with target or whomever else, how they choose to run their own message board, how/where/when they release info, etc...more power to em! as i've said, i see it ALL as pj being pj, as ever, doing things their way, their choice. respect intact there. c'est la vie!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
saying shitty blog is immature and frankly not a good pr move
**ponders what she should choose.. knit or get laid??**
agreed.
do notice that i said "if one removes the whole 'shitty blog' comment".........
bottomline....pj/10c were/are in the *right* here......even if someone made the unprofessional/immature gaffe of 'shitty blog'.......how's that for a *human element* to 10c eh?
anyhoooooooo...i'm out for the evening.....catch all you crazed fans tomorrow..........
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I absolutely agree. My only problem with the whole situation was the "Shitty blog" comment (if it really happened). There are always three sides to every store 1. my side 2. your side and 3. the truth. Everything else is totally debatable and at the end of the day I'm happy knowing that I'll have a new album some time in September (I don't care where they end up selling it because there are no Targets in Canada(and I'm buying it from 10c)) and at the very least I'll see them once in the summer here in Toronto.
Enjoy the rest of the conversation and I'm now going back into official lurker status.
I had an image of Nigella Lawson in a swimsuit, saying that reaaaaaaaaaally slowly.
Anyway, back on topic ....
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I've done my reading for today
https://www.facebook.com/Bring.Pearl.Jam.To.Israel
i am sick o' pussies, and that includes fans and the band management...
fans, leave the management alone, they are trying their best and do a great fucking job in my opinion... management, stop yelling at the fans, they are the reason you can feed your family and they are allowed to have opinions, good and bad
i almost forgot why i stopped coming here :roll:
If you play your cards right ... and have the right kind of talent ... you could probably do both.
for the least they could possibly do
i mean seriously? they have to be the most fan friendly band management on the planet...
nobody, and nothing, is perfect... except maybe "Ten" and "Vs." :ugeek:
"Empty pockets will Allow a greater Sense of wealth...." EV/ITW
Being a woman, I can multi-task!
I hate it when people hate a thread so much they have to post in it. Kind of counterproductive don't you think?
Maybe the person that called the blog "shitty" should get banned again?
I'm gonna have to agree with the 10c here though. I listened to the crappy recording once, it was so crappy I thought it was the same song from Conan after I had heard that one.
They didn't want the audio out there, so they asked her to remove it. If I have to ask a stranger something for the 3rd time, I just might say something like "Hey Shithead, take it down" Maybe she needed a little nudge for her to realize that this is a big deal. I mean she posted Ed recordings that she knew would not be approved of right?
You can be in it for the money and be in it for your art/craft/values as well. If PJ was just about the money they'd play 1.5 hour long shows and never change the setlist like 80% of today's popular touring bands.
Obviously every band is in it for the money, if not, they would not be able to exist.
HA!
PBM
Wishlist Foundation: http://wishlistfoundation.org
beating a dead horse at this point but there is a difference in asking 3 times for one thing or 3/3 different things. Much higher frustration in the latter... which could account for the negative comment.
"Don't you think you've got enough?" maybe not
PS. Can I have all your Pearl Jam stuff? For free? Or are you gonna sell it to pay off your bills?
I am just expecting the band to live up to standards they themselves set. I am blessed to not have to worry about my bills but thanks for asking. If I still knew any hardcore pj fans I would give them my stuff, but they are a dying breed. I would understand their "change" if they had not had enormous commercial success already, but fact of the matter is they could distribute their album solely through their website via download or shipping. I refuse to believe they need to whore themselves to corporations. The only motivating factor is greed. Again which is normal for most bands but Pearl Jam has always taken the stance of being against unnecessary greed. I am not naive enough to think that people aren't dishonest about their intentions, I am just saddened that the band I considered my favorite for more than half my life, are the same as any other corporate sellouts. Kurt was right. And if the band wants to reattain commercial success, maybe they should write a hit song instead of making mediocre music for the last half decade. People who are casual listeners won't support the band no matter what they put out. And that mp3 argument is the same one Record companies made against the cassette tape 30 plus years ago. And I guess I should blame the internet for being there when bands try to censor it. Get real, I don't care how the industry has changed. Yes I have changed but my principles have not, I still wouldn't kill or rob somebody, maybe I would do work I wouldn't have done five years ago, OUT OF NECESSITY, and if I did sell everything I had to pay my bills it would be OUT OF NECESSITY, not greed. There is a difference. I doubt the band is whoring itself because their electricity bill is past due. Please respond with relevance. It's ok, I too was once in denial. They are sellouts.
P.S.- I will listen to the new album to see if there are any surprises, I will just no longer pay for anything the band produces. To quote Ed " your a consumer, you vote everyday"
Also - if you had a product that you wanted to get to as many people as possible, at an affordable price, wouldn't you try to get a fair amount of distributorship? You would need to get that product into the marketplace in order to be successful, right? And as opportunities present themselves, you'd choose the ones that would give you the most bang for your buck...but still have higher-end versions for people who can afford such things....
Anyhow this album isn't going to be sold through Target only...it will be available through all other previous avenues. The Ten reissue (and price) wasn't up to the band, but was solely the responsiblity of Sony (they're a HUGE conglomerate that nobdy had issues with, certainly much bigger than Target)...
So, I don't think anything I say is going to convince you to look at the other side of this, you've obviously made up your mind to hate a band because of how they run their business instead of how good their music is...whatever. That's your choice...I hope it makes you happy....
P.S.- regarding the whole Sony thing, an unsigned, unknown band signs a long record deal with a major label because MAYBE it's their only shot at doing their "job", could argue it's out of necessity. The Band doesn't know if they will make it or not, I have no problem with a band trying to become successful. A band that has been successful for almost 20 years and still sells out concerts all over the world, whoring themselves on a target ad?
That is GREED, which is the norm, but i have a problem with the hypocrisy. (which this is)
the 2 reasons I have always liked the band(18 years) was their music and the way they conducted their business.
In the last half decade, both have become questionable at best.
What's wrong with money? The more money Pearl Jam makes the more money they have at their disposal to donate to just causes. To me Pearl Jam's ideals are more about helping and affecting lives. That can be difficult to do on a large scope without any $$$
Target allows them to reach the casual fan. Like many have said, Pearl Jam is not a household name among the average Joe in the US. Rock radio and casual listeners are more worried about Nickelback and Green Day.
Radiohead released their album for what you wanted to pay. They also released it via large chains. I know I bought my physical copy at best buy.
As someone wrote in another tread, you believed in the image and not the music.
Not saying that its bad, but you drank the cool aid.
And the Ticketmaster thing... they lost, ticketmaster still lives and you just have to pick your battles. As Kat wrote- they give a lot of money to a lot of charities. They use the money they make for good causes. Just because they are USING Target, does not mean that they are selling out their values. They are just choosing a different way of getting their message across.
It takes millions of dollars to get a record out- one that they are producing for themselves- and true, their fan base is not the same as it was 20 years ago- they got to make that money back someway. Would you want to pay 20, 30, or even 40 for a cd. No, your just going to download it.
I also think it's great all they have done for different causes, however, I would say exposing yourself to new fans through new means doesn't mean squat if you continue to turn existing fans off.
And yes I have purchased every album, excluding ten, the day it was released to retail.
I also have downloaded copies in case the cd becomes scratched or lost. I even have most of their vinyl.
I have been a very loyal fan and I choose to no longer support this band. Deal with it.
To me, what they do outside of the music is not relevant to me. Its great that they contribute to the betterment of life though their various charities, but that is not why I listen to them.
Look at the otherside of what they do, not just the image.
If you continue to idealize the band, you will always be disappointed in them.
They've said they're going to try something different this time around - "it's an experiment"... maybe it won't work.
And since we don't know that the Target commercial (which is still hearsay at this moment) is going to be for anything other than promoting their record or their tour, we might want to wait and see what transpires. If it's to sell deoderant, then I guess a whole pile of people will be angry if you want. Right now it's all speculation...
Somewhere you said that they USED to take stabs at other for selling songs for commercials...yeah, they USED to. I believe they have really softened their stance on that in the last couple of years. Anyway, I don't see it as "whoring" themselves out...
I did not say that they could do no wrong. That would be an assumption on your part. Anyway, since you were ten years old, you've never made a mistake or changed your mind about how you feel about something? Maybe when you were 8 you thought girls/guys had "cooties"...Because you may have said that then, does that mean your friends or co-workers can hold you to that now? Is it fair to assume you still feel the same way?
All I'm saying is that I think it's really unfair to hold the band to stupid or uninformed things they may have said or done in the early 1990s - most of that doesn't even apply now...esp. in the past couple of years.
And since they are an unsigned band, they have to pay for their entire tour themselves - Tours cost millions. Should they not have the opportunity to recoup those costs, even if it means doing a commercial possibly to sell their product?
Im gonna give you the same rebuttal i gave my graphic designer friend
Unfortunately it hasn't been 94 for a long time. I'm suprised this still shocks you bro