Is this getting out of hand now?

PJStatTracker

Ryan_WFC wrote:

Eduardo Veduardo. wrote:

If there is a false rumor out there, just say, "this rumor is false. details will be announced at the proper time. please discuss."

That's completely reasonable, but I think them reacting/responding to this kind of stuff would do more harm than good. Pissing into the wind.

deleting threads is reacting/responding to this kind of stuff. and that does WAY more harm than good, IMO.

QuarterToTen

Eduardo Veduardo. wrote:

If there is a false rumor out there, just say, "this rumor is false. details will be announced at the proper time. please discuss." We are your biggest fans, your base, and we come here specifically to discuss these little things that excite us that nobody else cares about. Like 20 seconds of poorly recorded new material. Handling things in this manner only serves to alienate us, and cause a tiny situation to balloon into a tornado of bitching.

exactly.

Very well said.

Ryan_WFC

Eduardo Veduardo. wrote:

deleting threads is reacting/responding to this kind of stuff. and that does WAY more harm than good, IMO.

I understand, and you might be right. But I think them officially speaking/responding to these kinds of rumors would encourage more of them, and that there's nothing they could say that would satisfy people.

Kat

Ryan_WFC wrote:

Eduardo Veduardo. wrote:

If there is a false rumor out there, just say, "this rumor is false. details will be announced at the proper time. please discuss."

That's completely reasonable, but I think them reacting/responding to this kind of stuff would do more harm than good. Pissing into the wind.

One can't come out and say this rumor is false when part of it is true but it's not time yet to confirm anything because the arrangements haven't been completed and, and, and...

It's just not possible, I'm sorry...I really am. Again, Patience is Good.

HeavyHands

redrock wrote:

HeavyHands wrote:

I think this is the first time I've seen it acknowledged that there will not be exclusive distribution by Target. Anyone else or am I alone in how I read this?

Nope.. Curtis said so in his interview.

Sorry I should have clarified. I meant exclusive distribution by big box retailers. I understand that independent record stores are not going to be shut out on this one and never were. I am probably splitting hairs here but the sentence "including Target as the "big box" retail partner" doesn't actually exclude other big box partners. To me it just means that the PJ organization is going to make a joint marketing push with Target instead of others, where people will still be able to buy the new album. I know I'm probably wrong but it is something that just occurred to me.

"Kelly Curtis, who has managed Pearl Jam since day one, conducted a wide-ranging interview with Billboard on Sunday night, confirming that the band's next release - rumored to be called "Backspacer" and currently scheduled for an early fall release - would come without a U.S. label, but a consortium of partners, including Target as the "big box" retail partner."
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/exclusive-pearl-jam-confirms-target-tie-1003978374.story

mrvedderson

Kat wrote:

It always comes but it comes when it's ready and it shouldn't come sooner. You don't eat an apple pie that's half-baked, do you? The fruit must first be gently washed and peeled and lovingly sliced and diced and the dough created with the perfect ratio of ingredients so that it will be a flaky masterpiece cradling the fruit and complimenting each tasty bite. It's art...like anyone's job can be if we try.

And you know that everyone involved wants you all to enjoy and savor every tasty morsel for as long as it can last.

xo

mmmmmm apple pie,

slightofjeff

HeavyHands wrote:

redrock wrote:

HeavyHands wrote:

I think this is the first time I've seen it acknowledged that there will not be exclusive distribution by Target. Anyone else or am I alone in how I read this?

Nope.. Curtis said so in his interview.

Sorry I should have clarified. I meant exclusive distribution by big box retailers. I understand that independent record stores are not going to be shut out on this one and never were. I am probably splitting hairs here but the sentence "including Target as the "big box" retail partner" doesn't actually exclude other big box partners. To me it just means that the PJ organization is going to make a joint marketing push with Target instead of others, where people will still be able to buy the new album. I know I'm probably wrong but it is something that just occurred to me.

"Kelly Curtis, who has managed Pearl Jam since day one, conducted a wide-ranging interview with Billboard on Sunday night, confirming that the band's next release - rumored to be called "Backspacer" and currently scheduled for an early fall release - would come without a U.S. label, but a consortium of partners, including Target as the "big box" retail partner."
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/exclusive-pearl-jam-confirms-target-tie-1003978374.story

I read that as Target will be the only big-box retailer to carry the album.

redrock

HeavyHands wrote:

I understand that independent record stores are not going to be shut out on this one and never were. I am probably splitting hairs here but the sentence including Target as the "big box" retail partner"

'the' not 'a'....

Yep... seems we are splitting hairs

QuarterToTen

Kat wrote:

Patience is Good.

indeed it is.

and in this instantaneous internet world we live in, it truly has become a virture we have lost.

PJStatTracker

Ryan_WFC wrote:

I understand, and you might be right. But I think them officially speaking/responding to these kinds of rumors would encourage more of them, and that there's nothing they could say that would satisfy people.

It is definitely tricky, and I'm glad it's not my job. It's easy to criticize from my living room..hahaha...plus I'm sure hind sight is 20/20 in a lot of these cases. There are many different ways to address the situation, but banning talking about something does several things - it validates the rumor, it causes more people to talk about it more than they would have otherwise, and it alienates the people that love Pearl jam most.

pdalowsky

Blimey, the mods and the band have had it proved without question this year that they are faced with an impossible task.

Kat comes here in an attempt to quell the storm and put out the official word, and does it do any good at all? Nope we just get a new spin on the sell out bullshit, the Eddie was fat bullshit, the eddies vocal's are terrible bullshit, the bullshit that Eddie's voice is no longer up to it, The band are trying to copy KOL bullshit, the band are corporate whores bullshit, the band have changed their politics bullshit over the years, the band are a business bullshit, the band have deserted their fanbase bullshit, the band dont care about us because they have money bullshit, the band dont put out information bullshit, the band owe us something as fans bullshit,.

I'm all for a discussion, but take a step back, spend 30 mins on these forums of late, and the penny will drop that the smae old rubbish is going back and forth over and over again. Its boring, its tedious, can we please drop it, and start being a bit more positive towards the release of a new record and a tour. A little bit of constructive posting would be great here for a change

Its been great being a PJ fan this year (otherthan the slight winge I may have had about the deluxe shipping) - we have lots to celebrate, and it irks me that we are still questionning whether Eddie can sing, whether he's put on weight and worst of all, how dare PJ sell out and try and sell their album. Shock fucking horror.

Seriously if you are that anti PJ perhaps you are posting in the wrong place

vduboise

Eduardo Veduardo. wrote:

Ryan_WFC wrote:

I understand, and you might be right. But I think them officially speaking/responding to these kinds of rumors would encourage more of them, and that there's nothing they could say that would satisfy people.

It is definitely tricky, and I'm glad it's not my job. It's easy to criticize from my living room..hahaha...plus I'm sure hind sight is 20/20 in a lot of these cases. There are many different ways to address the situation, but banning talking about something does several things - it validates the rumor, it causes more people to talk about it more than they would have otherwise, and it alienates the people that love Pearl jam most.

the problem is that people are about immediacy. they want things now and are unwilling to just wait for things. yes, they could have handled things differently. but whats done is done and all that is left is the aftermath.

HeavyHands

redrock wrote:

'the' not 'a'....

Yep... seems we are splitting hairs

Yeah, I read that too, but I really enjoy dissecting the English language and how much it can be manipulated. Especially by marketing and advertising. It's funny that there's almost always several ways that a single sentence can be read when emphasis is placed on different parts because the meaning of the sentence changes with the emphasis.

But you're right... I'm just reading too much into it.

Cosmo

einatshaul wrote:

Both sides must respect and learn to live at peace with the other, no one really wants to cross the lines, could you imagine the pressure the band is going through and has been going through for 19 years?

...
That's it... mutual respect. No... mutual EARNED respect. If the band respects the fans... the fans should respect the band. Pretty simple. And part of that respect means the fan does not expect to be part of the band... even when done with good intentions, such as celebrating new music with a posted sampling. If the band's management tells you to take it down... you take it down.. out of mutual respect.

vduboise

pdalowsky wrote:

Blimey, the mods and the band have had it proved without question this year that they are faced with an impossible task.

Kat comes here in an attempt to quell the storm and put out the official word, and does it do any good at all? Nope we just get a new spin on the sell out bullshit, the Eddie was fat bullshit, the eddies vocal's are terrible bullshit, the bullshit that Eddie's voice is no longer up to it, The band are trying to copy KOL bullshit, the band are corporate whores bullshit, the band have changed their politics bullshit over the years, the band are a business bullshit, the band have deserted their fanbase bullshit, the band dont care about us because they have money bullshit, the band dont put out information bullshit, the band owe us something as fans bullshit,.

I'm all for a discussion, but take a step back, spend 30 mins on these forums of late, and the penny will drop that the smae old rubbish is going back and forth over and over again. Its boring, its tedious, can we please drop it, and start being a bit more positive towards the release of a new record and a tour. A little bit of constructive posting would be great here for a change

Its been great being a PJ fan this year (otherthan the slight winge I may have had about the deluxe shipping) - we have lots to celebrate, and it irks me that we are still questionning whether Eddie can sing, whether he's put on weight and worst of all, how dare PJ sell out and try and sell their album. Shock fucking horror.

Seriously if you are that anti PJ perhaps you are posting in the wrong place

+1

decides2dream

Jeanwah wrote:

Kat wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Thank you for the info Kat.
Now can we have what you said as a sticky, to stop all of this? And can we have better communication so it doesn't get to this point in the future? It's not an unrealistic thing to ask for. Please?

It always comes but it comes when it's ready and it shouldn't come sooner. You don't eat an apple pie that's half-baked, do you? The fruit must first be gently washed and peeled and lovingly sliced and diced and the dough created with the perfect ratio of ingredients so that it will be a flaky masterpiece cradling the fruit and complimenting each tasty bite. It's art...like anyone's job can be if we try.

And you know that everyone involved wants you all to enjoy and savor every tasty morsel for as long as it can last.

xo

I agree, we should/could wait until the finished product is ready. All I'm asking is for better and possibly more communication. That's all. There's no harm in communicating.

this is what i don't understand.
they DO communicate, when THEY want to. it does not, nor should not, 'have' to be on our terms, when we want the information. they have their reasons for waiting - i think that is clear.


as to this whole blog thing, i had no idea....just read this entire thread this morning.... :?
have to say, as many already have....yea, she was wrong. plain and simple. and this is NOT about fan taping policy out the window or any such thing. this was an illegally made recording. this wasn't some fan at the show (paid extras with non-disclosure statements makes that clear, and also shows how hush-hush pj wanted it)......this was a fan going against the bands wishes, illegally taping the song, and then someone publicising this shitty recording all over the internet. THAt is disrespectful. so imo, 'great fan' or not....she came at it from a point of disrespect, even unmeaningly. would YOU want YOUR WORK fiirst exposure to the public to be some shit recording? i'd think not. i am no musician, but an artist...and if any of my unfinished and/or poorly copied imagery were released w/o my permission......as the first exposure to my new work....you bet i would be pissed. absolutely from a legal standpoint it's wrong...but beyond that.....it's just not the exposure i, or anyone would truly desire. you want your BEST out there FIRST. this isn't about controlling fan-made boots of shows, it's about illegal activity, and the respect - especially a fan - should exist for the band, and the law too. sounds like 15 minutes of fame to me........

as to the 'shitty blog' comment.....out of context hard to judge fully. unprofessional? sure...but not knowing the jist of the conversation, etc.....i can only guess it was a mistaken, regretted, off-the-cuff comment. if this blogger has been contacted by lawyers now and in the past....seems almost 'more important' to have an exclusive thing, than real respect for the bands she admires. uncool imo.

i think, especially with the internet, *expectations* are all needs met, all communications when desired, etc.....and that is simply unrealistic, unfair.....and not how pj has EVEr operated. it has always been about coming at things THEIR way, on their OWN terms. i do not see that changed here, at all. they may grow and change, mature....but their core values still seem quite as before, even if how they go about it may appear quite different. and this is not to say i too don't always want 'more'.....but i don't expect the band, or 10c, to jump at my every whim and my every request for info. they'll get to it in their own good time, on their own terms....and i can accept or reject that. my choice.

*edited b/c i posted right in the middle of what i quoted initially.... :oops:

sward

While I have been critical of this situation as well, I do think some pause is needed to remember why we (most of us) come on here. And that is the music. This other stuff is the business side of the industry, that we the fans helped create. A lot of us download on here...a lot of us distribute material, whether official releases or otherwise, and we do so with no regard to the ramifications of it. And as Kat alluded to, information getting out that is false, will still circulate even when the whole story is known. But for me..this topic isn't about the Target information...I could care less about that..in fact I applaud the band for doing the multi partner thing...its forward thinking and I believe the way it should be done. But micro managing the blogosphere for fan recorded material is a little out character, and I think unnecessary. Nowadays, something going viral is the key to getting material out there, and for that to happen, you need the fans to seed it. Personally, I think that whenever the first single is prepped for release, the band should plant it at various sites as though it got out early..and let the fanbase throw it around...it creates buzz, excitement, the feeling that we stumbled upon some news that we spend way to much time poking around for anyway. Do it on your own terms and what is out of control can be somewhat 'in control' if you know what I mean. So don't crap on a blog for hosting a crappy fan recorded mp3 of a song that is building excitement and word of mouth. Embrace it and then you will see the true value of what a rabid fanbase can provide. Otherwise, don't do a video for target and hire in anyone but workers for the band who have been strip searched...because nowadays..its going to get out there.

PJStatTracker

Kat wrote:

Ryan_WFC wrote:

One can't come out and say this rumor is false when part of it is true but it's not time yet to confirm anything because the arrangements haven't been completed and, and, and...

It's just not possible, I'm sorry...I really am. Again, Patience is Good.

well, you got me there...I don't have any good rebuttal to that, I'll have to think on it awhile. Unfortunately, you are faced with the impossible task of trying to control information in 2009. It's simply not possible. There has to be a way to embrace the leakage of information rather than fight it. That is a losing battle.

But I hear you. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. It is good to have some dialogue on this. There are always many sides to every story.

Kat

Eduardo Veduardo. wrote:

Ryan_WFC wrote:

I understand, and you might be right. But I think them officially speaking/responding to these kinds of rumors would encourage more of them, and that there's nothing they could say that would satisfy people.

It is definitely tricky, and I'm glad it's not my job. It's easy to criticize from my living room..hahaha...plus I'm sure hind sight is 20/20 in a lot of these cases. There are many different ways to address the situation, but banning talking about something does several things - it validates the rumor, it causes more people to talk about it more than they would have otherwise, and it alienates the people that love Pearl jam most.

Maybe next time and good god I hope there isn't a next time, people could trust a little bit and have faith that there is something wrong with the information...deleting it is a hint that there is a problem. See Posting Guidelines.

xo

HeavyHands

Kat wrote:

...deleting it is a hint that there is a problem. See Posting Guidelines.

please stop making sense.