Is this getting out of hand now?

Cosmo

Jeanwah wrote:

You and Cosmo need to take some business courses to understand the relationship between the business and the customer. There's a HUGE relationship between the two, and without the customer, there is no business at all. How do you expect to make money if no one likes what you're selling? It's a give and take, supply and demand, balance that makes or breaks your business. There's that saying "the customer is always right". Now, I'm not trying to relate that to the music industry, but that saying is what keeps a company in business. The fans make the band profitable. End of story, as there's a huge relationship of balancing each other out. No us? No YOU. And I'm not saying that out of entitlement (because I'm certainly not for that), I'm saying that because it's the truth.

...
I do understand that... the business/customer relationship. Without the customers... the business fails. I get that.
In order to get a fanbase... you, FIRST, need to make good music. Otherwise, you end up keeping your day job. But, just because the fan (customer) buys your music (product), it does not mean they are entitled to anything other than the music. If people don't like Pearl jam because they think their music sucks... that is on the consumer and he or she can go to the artist who's music is to their liking. But, to say you will no longer support Pearl jam because they are not catering to YOUR specific needs... gives others some insight on where you are coming from. It would be the same thing for me if i decided to stop going to the 'In and Out' because they didn't let me in the front of the line... because i have been such a loyal customer.
ALL fans want to be in the first 1/3 of the venue... but, it is physically impossible to please everyone. Someone has to get the back 2/3s of the seating... who gets to decide who is a 'bigger or better' fan than the others? I know many fans that have sat in the rafters and still enjoyed the show.
As for the 'taped' recording. The kids at 'In and out' would not let me 'sample' their burgers or fries to see if I want to buy another one.. i just buy it because i like it. If they yelled at me for sampling at the Coke machine before paying for it.. i would not go out to the street and complain that they told me to stop. Also, it is one thing making cassettes and passing them out and another thing posting it one the internet. Try passing out 100 copies of a copy on a cassette versus posting it on a website that millions can access, worldwide. Huge difference.
Businesses should not cater to the needs of every customer's desires... if that were the case, I would want Costco to sell me that flat screen T.V. for 5 bucks. In that case, I, the customer, am NOT right. And losing my business would not matter because there are still going to be those people (customers) who like Costco because they provide a great service (product). All they have to do is provide a good service... just like a company that makes cars needs to make good cars and a band or singer has to make good music.
When Pearl Jam starts making country western music or change into a Boy band... then, yeah.... i'll leave. Not because of what they tell me what i can and can't do... but, because their product would not fit my tastes. Just like if the 'In and Out' decided to go with turd patties in their cheesburgers.

Solat13

YieldToNothing wrote:

stupid bitches who love the drama .com


you're a star now, girl. enjoy your 15 minutes of pearl jam message board notoriety.

don't forget to tear your eyes it on youtube and blame it on the tenclub.

Actually, it's because of her that many of us got to hear Pearl Jam Rarities Unreleased Cuts so she's been around a little bit longer than 15 minutes.

http://fuelfriends.blogspot.com/2007/07 ... atman.html

YieldToNothing

Solat13 wrote:

YieldToNothing wrote:

stupid bitches who love the drama .com


you're a star now, girl. enjoy your 15 minutes of pearl jam message board notoriety.

don't forget to tear your eyes it on youtube and blame it on the tenclub.

Actually, it's because of her that many of us got to hear Pearl Jam Rarities Unreleased Cuts so she's been around a little bit longer than 15 minutes.

http://fuelfriends.blogspot.com/2007/07 ... atman.html

i'm sure she "broke" that story. i found those on another site...whatever. it is just a "shitty blog". the problem with bloggers is that a lot of them grow to think that they are important. they aren't. she isn't. her comments about wiping tears after talking to the 10c rep literally made me sick.

LoveBoatAdmiral

Eduardo Veduardo. wrote:

I think all of this is just silliness, from both sides.

Pearl Jam management completely has their head up their asses, and completely doesn't get how to deal with leaks and the internet in 2009. First of all, they need a reality check. None of this shit matters. Anyone who is going to go out of their way to listen to twenty seconds of poorly recorded audio is a big fan, and is a lock to buy the album. Leaks only fuel the excitement for those people, the rest of the world doesn't give a shit and will make their decision on whether to buy the album based on the upcoming media blitz or a song on the radio, etc.

So why spend money paying attorneys to get this stuff taken down? The sales won't be affected in any way. It sucks for PJ that they weren't able to contain the leak, but it's 2009. It's out there. Once it's out, it's out. They are wasting money and resources trying to fight it, and only making people MORE interested in hearing some shitty 20 second audio clip by their actions. With the added bonus that they are alienating some of their hardcore fans. They need to learn to roll with these punches and act accordingly. There is a way to embrace this kind of stuff. They need to find it.

As for this blogger, you got caught posting stuff that hasn't been released yet. Take it down and move on. No need to make a federal case. Pearl Jam's gripe in this is legitimate, even though they are shortsighted, behind the times, and apparently short tempered.

Correct.
End of thread.
Next topic.

Kilgore_Trout

as if i wasnt already at my boiling point with 10C... wtf... really??

these "shitty bloggers" have been the people sticking with the band throughout their weakest album sales and feigning popularity... buying $140 reissue packages and every available concert posters...

im disgusted right now... but sadly, not surprised

Kilgore_Trout

Eduardo Veduardo. wrote:

I think all of this is just silliness, from both sides.

Pearl Jam management completely has their head up their asses, and completely doesn't get how to deal with leaks and the internet in 2009. First of all, they need a reality check. None of this shit matters. Anyone who is going to go out of their way to listen to twenty seconds of poorly recorded audio is a big fan, and is a lock to buy the album. Leaks only fuel the excitement for those people, the rest of the world doesn't give a shit and will make their decision on whether to buy the album based on the upcoming media blitz or a song on the radio, etc.

So why spend money paying attorneys to get this stuff taken down? The sales won't be affected in any way. It sucks for PJ that they weren't able to contain the leak, but it's 2009. It's out there. Once it's out, it's out. They are wasting money and resources trying to fight it, and only making people MORE interested in hearing some shitty 20 second audio clip by their actions. With the added bonus that they are alienating some of their hardcore fans. They need to learn to roll with these punches and act accordingly. There is a way to embrace this kind of stuff. They need to find it.

As for this blogger, you got caught posting stuff that hasn't been released yet. Take it down and move on. No need to make a federal case. Pearl Jam's gripe in this is legitimate, even though they are shortsighted, behind the times, and apparently short tempered.

good points

its no wonder trent reznor doesnt hold PJ in high regard... its so weird for me to see my 2 favorite bands operate on such completely different wave lengths when it comes to the business aspects of the industry... one is just completely logical and adaptable for the 21st century and the other is just plain backassward... i was hoping for PJ to pick up the slack while NIN is on hiatus... not turn into bizarro pearl jam

usamamasan1

Pearl Jam kicks ass.

They play incredible shows.

Make great times.

Make money.


they sell their product for what it is worth. That price for me is an incredible bargain.

shut the fuck up already.

vedderfan10

It sucks when your romantic fantasy cannot reconcile with reality... If you continue to idealizing this band, they will never meet your expectations and then you will resent them...and for some reason, you take it personally...

such harsh criticisms when only one side of the story has been told...

oh, and if you only do things because PJ does, you really need to start thinking for yourself and stand up for what YOU believe in, not what a rock band believes in...

usamamasan1

vedderfan10 :arrow: truth

Kilgore_Trout

Vedderfan10 wrote:

It sucks when your romantic fantasy cannot reconcile with reality... If you continue to idealizing this band, they will never meet your expectations and then you will resent them...and for some reason, you take it personally...

well said... i think thats probably what it is for me... ive been into them since i was 13 years old... can remember first hearing them when i was 4... it has been a long time affair with the band, the music, the fans, the shirts, the posters, etc etc etc... all of which for the majority of my major fandom has stood for something much bigger than the music alone... they were what i based my scale of integrity on (obviously with some other influences)... its like kids from my dads generation realising john wayne was just a chain smoking racist... worst case scenario of course... im still holding out some hope

guess all our childhood heroes are bound to tarnish sooner or later

usamamasan1

try not to forget about the charity.

the band gives back. a lot.

Kilgore_Trout

usamamasan1 wrote:

try not to forget about the charity.

the band gives back. a lot.

i know i know

im just being dramatic... getting caught up in a particular low point in the bands long, spotless history

this too shall pass... ive already got tickets for both chicago shows so i have to be a fan at least til then

Cosmo

sgossard3 wrote:

Vedderfan10 wrote:

It sucks when your romantic fantasy cannot reconcile with reality... If you continue to idealizing this band, they will never meet your expectations and then you will resent them...and for some reason, you take it personally...

well said... i think thats probably what it is for me... ive been into them since i was 13 years old... can remember first hearing them when i was 4... it has been a long time affair with the band, the music, the fans, the shirts, the posters, etc etc etc... all of which for the majority of my major fandom has stood for something much bigger than the music alone... they were what i based my scale of integrity on (obviously with some other influences)... its like kids from my dads generation realising john wayne was just a chain smoking racist... worst case scenario of course... im still holding out some hope

guess all our childhood heroes are bound to tarnish sooner or later

...
I have seen many of my heroes turn out bad...
I was a big fan of the Faces and Rod Stewart in the early 70s. They were great... and their music still stands as a testament. But, that disco shit in 1975... okay, i'm out. Still love Ronnie Wood, Ronnie Lane (R.I.P.), Kenny Jones and Ian McLagan... can't stand Rod.
Paul McCartney was an other. Love the Beatles and even forgave him for the Silly Love Songs. But in 1977... okay, enough. Then, Ebony and Ivory, that horrid duet with Michael Jackson and the Death Blow... wanting to change the credits on some of the Beatles' songs to McCartney/lennon... long after John's murder... Let it Be, Paul. Elton John was GREAT.. ref. 'Yellow Brick Road'... but, the fucking guy is impossible to stomach these days.
And John Wayne... as a kid, I loved movies that glorified war like the 'Sands Of Iwo Jima'... then, I got to know Viet Nam veterans and discovered there is no glory in war, just acts of heroism and cowardice, humanity and inhumanity and death and destruction.
My teachers lied to me about George Washington and the apple tree... Cowboys and Indians and World War II.
...
I'm holding out for Ol' Neil Young... who i believe will always follow his own drummer... the one that no one else can hear.
And Pearl Jam. If Eddie does a reality show, a duet with Miley Cyrus or a judge on 'American Idol'... I'm out.

einatshaul

I wonder who it was she spoke to?

Seems they are going a bit mad there lately, no? Deleting frenzy and fighting to control leaks and rumors... I always enjoy that blog so I can get to know new music that's out there - then I go buy it. But I can see how it damages the business with the thousands out there who don't, and, well, it's basically illegal...

She is a fan though; I know she must feel awful right now for being spoken to that way by a rep. of the band. They should know every contact they have reflects on the band and be a bit more sensitive.

Danimal

Wow....someone from Pearl Jam criticized you...

Doesn't feel good does it?

Let's start another "Hey Ed looks fat thread' or the 'music sounded like shit' thread....

When did we all become such big pussies?

einatshaul

Well, she did not start an "Ed looks fat" thread, so that's beside the point, no?
She wrote very favorable reviews of the band from a fan's standpoint and brought many music lovers together to know and fall in love through her writing with the band and it's music.

There is a whidening grey area in the music business since the rise of the internet and new game rules must be applied, as public demand has changed - music industry should change with it, can't be fighting it to death.

pdalowsky

jimed14 wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

I think they had every right to say her blog was shitty. She basically reported a bunch of rumors and sold PJ down the river, no?

It just doesn't have to be done like that, she's a fan first and foremost ... a little respect goes a long way.

I cant say I'm any better as I jumped at the chance to hear this thing when it first hit, but lets be honest hear, we are talking about respect right? did she really respect PJ by posting this all over the internet - a sub par terrible recording of something they are understandly pretty proud of??

and as for the blog, i think its kinda sad, 'hey look at me, Pj contacted me and all'.....then again I'm not entirely intune with all this blogging and social networking shit. People need to get real again

pdalowsky

einatshaul wrote:

Well, she did not start an "Ed looks fat" thread, so that's beside the point, no?
She wrote very favorable reviews of the band from a fan's standpoint and brought many music lovers together to know and fall in love through her writing with the band and it's music.

There is a whidening grey area in the music business since the rise of the internet and new game rules must be applied, as public demand has changed - music industry should change with it, can't be fighting it to death.

so that makes it all alright?

apathy changes nothing.

respect the artists is the message here and an important one. Of course PJ are already set for life so maybe it doesnt seem important to you. But I for one can hold up my hands and say i have never downloaded an album illegally on the internet. or legally for that matter. Music is about the physical medium for me.

IGotShit76

I can understand PJ wants to protect their material as much as possible (even though this mp3 has the worst quality I've ever heard). I also think that PJ don't owe us anything. But in this case, what bothers me the most, is the disrespect from PJ representative towards the blogger. Calling it a shitty blog is just a plain stupid move. If this guy didn't treat her like rubbish just with this simple sentence, this story would have already been put to an end.

einatshaul

pdalowsky wrote:

so that makes it all alright?

apathy changes nothing.

respect the artists is the message hear and an important one. Of course PJ are already set for life so maybe it doesnt seem important to you. But I for one can hold up my hands and say i have never downloaded an album illegally on the internet. or legally for that matter. Music is about the physical medium for me.

No, I did not say that, in fact on my first post here I said this was basically illegal. I am just trying to form an opinion on the matter, as this is, as you've said, something we all struggle with (you too listened to the leaked recording) and for a good reason.

Society is dynamic, ways of listening, buying, sharing music have changed tremendously and capitalist corporations along with the backing legal system must acknowledge and re-deploy.

This is not to take back from the fact that on the micro level, posting unreleased material for the world to see and share was wrong.

It must be acknowledged though that these forces are bigger than one little excited blogger, and on a macro level – there is simply no way to enforce them.