Is this getting out of hand now?

covered in bliss

HeavyHands wrote:

covered in bliss wrote:

She's a talented writer and it's great that she loves music so much.

With that said, why did she put the info up in the first place? Really. When they demanded that the first 2 mp3's be yanked immediately... don't you think twice about putting up a 3rd? thinking that PJ somehow "owes" her something is laughable and nothing will ever happen. If it does, everyone and their mother would start posting illegally taped audio and blogging about it.

I agree with your point... She should've known better and she did let excitement cloud her judgment when she chose to post that stuff.

And while I agree and don't think that the organization owes her anything, an apology for denigrating her work would be the right thing to give her.

Didn't she say that they said "sorry how things went down?" Sounds like an apology...

Blogs are blogs. Some of them are nothing but advertisement and marketing tools for new bands/artists... bands that turn around and give bloggers perks and whatnot. Does she post about shittty music or just how great stuff is? Someone above me mentioned traffic... I'm sure the hits are skyrocketing....

sward

Yeah, this sort of stuff is putting a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I get the need to manage copyright material, but come on boys. While you are trying to reinvent how it is you distribute your music, you need to consider how the fanbase furthers your cause. I have defended a lot of things to do with PJ, but name calling and micro managing isn't something I'm fond of. For the first time in my long, long time following this band, I have a bad taste in my mouth and I don't like it. I'm hoping there was some miscommunication going on, but it seems like this is par for the recent course.

Gremmie03

Information moves quickly. The best way to control it is to put it out there first. 10c fuels the fire and run around trying to put it out.

They could have announced their intentions with the new album here first instead of with billboard and that would have been the end of it.

10c needs to learn from the silly mistake concerning band news. Generally we find out the news through other 10c members and that isnt one of the reasons I belong to the 10c.

Just hope they finally figure this out.

Zoso

FW46778 wrote:

It is only a band. people need to relax.

tvery true but this is what forums are for no? Discussing PJ and everything PJ related. I know if I got a call and someone at 10c said my blog was shitty or whatever I would be pissed. I do understand the fact that they want to control the leaks and the bad quality ones at that..

Wilco (The Album) was leaked a few weeks ago so what did Wilco HQ do?? They streamed the whole album online for a week. Why wouldn't PJ do something like this instead of what went down here?

melva02

Zoso wrote:

Wilco (The Album) was leaked a few weeks ago so what did Wilco HQ do?? They streamed the whole album online for a week. Why wouldn't PJ do something like this instead of what went down here?

Yes, Wilco was totally cool about it, and Pearl Jam has been totally uptight lately. One difference, I guess, is that within 12 hours of the Wilco leak, tons and tons of people were excitedly downloading it. Pearl Jam has been around longer and isn't as "hot" (still good and popular, just not trending so to speak), so I could see why they feel they need a coordinated media blitz involving Target, which is probably hotter than Pearl Jam right now in terms of public awareness.

But as I said on another thread, I went ahead and spent some of my summer concert money on a big trip to Red Rocks to see Wilco in a cooler place than where I live. Thinking twice about PJ out west if it's the Key Arena, not the Gorge, but that's just personal preference of course. And of course I'll always see them if they come nearby.

Melissa

ARazorbackguy1

IMO Pearl Jam doesn't owe her anything. Cry me a river!

I'd be pissed if I was trying my best to keep everything under wraps and some piss ant took her little MacBook Air and wrote all about it. Much less, STEAL and promote a song that isn't released yet.

Don't give this blogger the time of day. I sure don't

KalEl31

This whole argument essentially boils down to the legal/illegal downloading of music. Some bands dig it, others don't.

As was written on the blog... "Their New York City lawyers contacted me today, telling me to remove the fan-recorded file of a new song below, which was captured outside the venue door at a recent secret show." http://www.fuelfriendsblog.com/2009/05/31/pearl-jams-got-something-new-going-on/

So someone stood outside a venue door and taped a show. I'm the first to admit a lot of my live PJ collection is because of the bootleggers (bless all of you). But standing outside something you didn't pay to get into, and then posting it for the world to hear? That borders slightly on theft. Slightly. The previous posts about TenClub asking she remove the songs is lame, but not knowing the whole story, I really don't care.

At some point, the band has to protect their craft. The Christmas-present analogy isn't a bad one, but what would have been better is if they said, "You're looking at artwork that hasn't totally been finished. We'd like you to hear it once it's done correctly."

drsluggo

KalEl31 wrote:

At some point, the band has to protect their craft. The Christmas-present analogy isn't a bad one, but what would have been better is if they said, "You're looking at artwork that hasn't totally been finished. We'd like you to hear it once it's done correctly."

I'd agree if it was a studio demo floating around. The MP3 that is going around of the Showbox performance is barely listenable AT BEST. So they are harassing websites/suppressing discussion of an MP3 that is only going to be listened to by those who would be preordering from the TC anyway. Its not like this MP3 is making the rounds and turning people off- you can barely make anything out from it.

Just seems like its beyond overboard. I could understand blocking studio leaks or even a solid bootleg performance... that Christmas present analogy just doesn't really work for me.

Zoso

ARazorbackguy1 wrote:

IMO Pearl Jam doesn't owe her anything. Cry me a river!

I'd be pissed if I was trying my best to keep everything under wraps and some piss ant took her little MacBook Air and wrote all about it. Much less, STEAL and promote a song that isn't released yet.

Don't give this blogger the time of day. I sure don't

if someone at the 10c was THAT rude to you it wouldn't bother you? I d/l that leak also as well as many other around here. Whoever it was at 10c went too far I feel.

vedderfreak12

When they demanded that the first 2 mp3's be yanked immediately... don't you think twice about putting up a 3rd?

These weren't just ordinary mp3s. These were live recordings converted into an mp3, which was encouraged in the old generation of tape trading.

Instead Target, Rock Band, and other bullshit corporations shove the remaining hard-core fans out of the way.

I'm on Heather's side.

This was my comment on Heather's AWESOME blog:

Heather,
"I am saddened to hear Pearl Jam taking big business’ side over the fans. I too am having difficulties with them right now but on a much smaller scale.

My problem lies within fan club seating. My membership expires in three days. I’ll be seeing Eddie in 18 days in Memphis. Call me a crybaby, call me whatever, but if my seats are not in the first 1/3 of the concert hall I will not be renewing my membership. If I’m seated anywhere else I refuse to believe there are that many Ten Club fans who have lower numbers than I, and are at the same show as me, especially at such a small venue.

Stand up for what you think is right, and if they become corporate sellouts as it’s suspected, we’ll walk hand in hand away from the mess because we know better."

skyeriverwinter

I would like to say a few things on this subject....I do understand and accept that, Pearl Jam as a business, has a right to do with their art as they will...I haven't an ounce of knowledge on what goes into protecting your work or what it takes to send it to the masses. Sounds as though it's a daunting task. As someone who touches on creative things...if my artistic endeavors were passed around without my knowledge...I'd be a bit ANGRY to say the least...



Also...regardless of your position in Public Relations or not...when the pressure comes down on you...I am sure it might make it a little bit easier to crack. Can anyone say they've never said something they wish they could take back? I know I have...and there were many instances over the past three days...I can not back space over them...I can only imagine the kind of stress the band and it's whole company have been under over the past few days. For my part in upsetting them...I am utterly sorry...and I hope I have not lost the respect and love that the band gives...These people are a big part of my life and have been since 1991 or 1992...I can't remember, I am getting old ...I feel as though I've hurt a very good friend and they may never forgive me... this breaks my heart tremendously...

Zoso

vedderfreak12 wrote:

When they demanded that the first 2 mp3's be yanked immediately... don't you think twice about putting up a 3rd?

These weren't just ordinary mp3s. These were live recordings converted into an mp3, which was encouraged in the old generation of tape trading.

Instead Target, Rock Band, and other bullshit corporations shove the remaining hard-core fans out of the way.

I'm on Heather's side.

This was my comment on Heather's AWESOME blog:

Heather,
"I am saddened to hear Pearl Jam taking big business’ side over the fans. I too am having difficulties with them right now but on a much smaller scale.

My problem lies within fan club seating. My membership expires in three days. I’ll be seeing Eddie in 18 days in Memphis. Call me a crybaby, call me whatever, but if my seats are not in the first 1/3 of the concert hall I will not be renewing my membership. If I’m seated anywhere else I refuse to believe there are that many Ten Club fans who have lower numbers than I, and are at the same show as me, especially at such a small venue.

Stand up for what you think is right, and if they become corporate sellouts as it’s suspected, we’ll walk hand in hand away from the mess because we know better."

I love her blog also and she makes A LOT of good points here... You could almost say I agree.

LoveBoatAdmiral

sward wrote:

Yeah, this sort of stuff is putting a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I get the need to manage copyright material, but come on boys. While you are trying to reinvent how it is you distribute your music, you need to consider how the fanbase furthers your cause. I have defended a lot of things to do with PJ, but name calling and micro managing isn't something I'm fond of. For the first time in my long, long time following this band, I have a bad taste in my mouth and I don't like it. I'm hoping there was some miscommunication going on, but it seems like this is par for the recent course.

I agree with this word for word. And don't anyone say "if you don't like it, leave". I have to sit through Ed talk about whatever the fuck he wants to in between songs and I don't complain. I listen to him advocate for felons, I listen to his rants about the war, I even listen to goddamn bushleaguer, so they should turn around and listen to the fans for once. I guess we'll open our Christmas presents on the 4th of July, again :roll:

Zoso

LoveBoatAdmiral wrote:

sward wrote:

Yeah, this sort of stuff is putting a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I get the need to manage copyright material, but come on boys. While you are trying to reinvent how it is you distribute your music, you need to consider how the fanbase furthers your cause. I have defended a lot of things to do with PJ, but name calling and micro managing isn't something I'm fond of. For the first time in my long, long time following this band, I have a bad taste in my mouth and I don't like it. I'm hoping there was some miscommunication going on, but it seems like this is par for the recent course.

I agree with this word for word. And don't anyone say "if you don't like it, leave". I have to sit through Ed talk about whatever the fuck he wants to in between songs and I don't complain. I listen to him advocate for felons, I listen to his rants about the war, I even listen to goddamn bushleaguer, so they should turn around and listen to the fans for once. I guess we'll open our Christmas presents on the 4th of July, again :roll:

I get a bad taste in my mouth when 10c people attack fans.. PJ have become a business way before anything to do with music.

ARazorbackguy1

Zoso wrote:

ARazorbackguy1 wrote:

IMO Pearl Jam doesn't owe her anything. Cry me a river!

I'd be pissed if I was trying my best to keep everything under wraps and some piss ant took her little MacBook Air and wrote all about it. Much less, STEAL and promote a song that isn't released yet.

Don't give this blogger the time of day. I sure don't

if someone at the 10c was THAT rude to you it wouldn't bother you? I d/l that leak also as well as many other around here. Whoever it was at 10c went too far I feel.

I'm sure that isn't the first blogger they have had to deal with. Aren't you pissed that someone stole from the band? To me, this is the issue that should piss all you LOYAL fans off.

Zoso

ARazorbackguy1 wrote:

Zoso wrote:

ARazorbackguy1 wrote:

IMO Pearl Jam doesn't owe her anything. Cry me a river!

I'd be pissed if I was trying my best to keep everything under wraps and some piss ant took her little MacBook Air and wrote all about it. Much less, STEAL and promote a song that isn't released yet.

Don't give this blogger the time of day. I sure don't

if someone at the 10c was THAT rude to you it wouldn't bother you? I d/l that leak also as well as many other around here. Whoever it was at 10c went too far I feel.

I'm sure that isn't the first blogger they have had to deal with. Aren't you pissed that someone stole from the band? To me, this is the issue that should piss all you LOYAL fans off.

Yeah true to a point - but no one is going to profit from that shitty recording and PJ aren't going to lose money from that recording. if it was official quality than maybe.

ARazorbackguy1

Bands, any bands don't make music for their fans. They make their Art and Music because they enjoy doing it. Fans come and they go. Why should PJ give a rats ass what the fans want?

It's like if I owned a bar and there was a new way to sell tap beer and I just did it. It's the same product, just a different way of getting it there. Did I consult my customers?? hell no, it was better for me and my business. Does the customer care?? nope, they are still drunk off my product.

They work their asses off to put out something new, they tour, solo tour, give pre-order tickets to fan club. Do they have to do these things? Hell no. But they do.

ARazorbackguy1

Zoso wrote:

Yeah true to a point - but no one is going to profit from that shitty recording and PJ aren't going to lose money from that recording. if it was official quality than maybe.

Awww, but you are quickly forgetting that I could go out tomorrow and create a song just like it and patent it before they do. extreme example, but it could happen.

Cosmo

my take on all of this...
We are fans. That's all we are. We like the music, so we buy it... or, at least, we SHOULD buy it. And yes, the musician needs the fan in order to keep from having to go back to his day job.
But... we are not entitled to anything other than what we pay for, right? What makes us that special? Nothing.
Just because we buy CDs or concert tickets or fan club subscriptions doesn't mean we are part owners in the band. We are customers... just like the way we are customers at the 'In and Out Burger'. I give them money.. they give me a burger, fries and a coke. I don't think I deserve to take a bite out of a burger or grab a handful of fries because I have bought several burgers in the past... i just buy it because... well, I happen to like the 'In and Out Burgers'. They run a business and just because i go there a lot... it doesn't mean they owe me anything other that what they have offered for sale.
...
Anyway... I think as fans... too many of us feel like we should be treated special... that whole, 'The band depends on us for their livlihood, man... without us... they'd be nothing' thing is silly and selfish. Without that type of fan, Pearl Jam would STILL be in business. Why? Because of the music... and the GREAT Live performances. And if you are one of those fans that don't like Pearl Jam of today because they are not the Pearl Jam of yesterday (that didn't handle the business aspect of being a band because the Sony Corporation was taking care of that) then, I feel bad for you. You can go if you like... just like you can not go to the In And Out anymore. You are a consumer... you already got what you paid for.
...
and... as a footnote.. RESPECT works both ways. Yeah, calling it a Shitty Blog is disrespectful... but, so is going out and crying to anyone who would listen because you were told you couldn't do something. You earn respect... it is not automatically granted... if it is granted freely... it ain't worth having.

Jeanwah

LoveBoatAdmiral wrote:

You make a great point in that they owe her some sort of exclusive. Much of the hardcore fan base's rabidness (and 10C or PJ can't afford to be alienating any of their fan base at this point) stems from the fact that the band and the 10C have been so tight lipped on EVERYTHING. If we got information from them, no matter how vague or trite, instead of having to hunt it down and be told from 3rd, 4th or 5th party sources, or were given a heads up as in "hey guys, album news in a couple of weeks!", there would not be such a furvor created or would the rumors get wild and out of hand quickly. PJ and 10C have the right to protect their product, but they need to realize they feed into their problem as much as anyone. I think that's why some fans think, perhaps correctly, that they band is more interested in keeping Target happy rather than the fans at this point.

This is basically it. Things have become so secretive and controlling, rather than open and transparent, that basically TC has asked for this kind of retribution from the fans. All we want is to know what's up with the band. We get nothing and then this happens to a fan blogger. Will the lesson be learned?