I would like to say a few things on this subject....I do understand and accept that, Pearl Jam as a business, has a right to do with their art as they will...I haven't an ounce of knowledge on what goes into protecting your work or what it takes to send it to the masses. Sounds as though it's a daunting task. As someone who touches on creative things...if my artistic endeavors were passed around without my knowledge...I'd be a bit ANGRY to say the least...
Also...regardless of your position in Public Relations or not...when the pressure comes down on you...I am sure it might make it a little bit easier to crack. Can anyone say they've never said something they wish they could take back? I know I have...and there were many instances over the past three days...I can not back space over them...I can only imagine the kind of stress the band and it's whole company have been under over the past few days. For my part in upsetting them...I am utterly sorry...and I hope I have not lost the respect and love that the band gives...These people are a big part of my life and have been since 1991 or 1992...I can't remember, I am getting old ...I feel as though I've hurt a very good friend and they may never forgive me... this breaks my heart tremendously...
When they demanded that the first 2 mp3's be yanked immediately... don't you think twice about putting up a 3rd?
These weren't just ordinary mp3s. These were live recordings converted into an mp3, which was encouraged in the old generation of tape trading.
Instead Target, Rock Band, and other bullshit corporations shove the remaining hard-core fans out of the way.
I'm on Heather's side.
This was my comment on Heather's AWESOME blog:
Heather,
"I am saddened to hear Pearl Jam taking big business’ side over the fans. I too am having difficulties with them right now but on a much smaller scale.
My problem lies within fan club seating. My membership expires in three days. I’ll be seeing Eddie in 18 days in Memphis. Call me a crybaby, call me whatever, but if my seats are not in the first 1/3 of the concert hall I will not be renewing my membership. If I’m seated anywhere else I refuse to believe there are that many Ten Club fans who have lower numbers than I, and are at the same show as me, especially at such a small venue.
Stand up for what you think is right, and if they become corporate sellouts as it’s suspected, we’ll walk hand in hand away from the mess because we know better."
I love her blog also and she makes A LOT of good points here... You could almost say I agree.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Yeah, this sort of stuff is putting a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I get the need to manage copyright material, but come on boys. While you are trying to reinvent how it is you distribute your music, you need to consider how the fanbase furthers your cause. I have defended a lot of things to do with PJ, but name calling and micro managing isn't something I'm fond of. For the first time in my long, long time following this band, I have a bad taste in my mouth and I don't like it. I'm hoping there was some miscommunication going on, but it seems like this is par for the recent course.
I agree with this word for word. And don't anyone say "if you don't like it, leave". I have to sit through Ed talk about whatever the fuck he wants to in between songs and I don't complain. I listen to him advocate for felons, I listen to his rants about the war, I even listen to goddamn bushleaguer, so they should turn around and listen to the fans for once. I guess we'll open our Christmas presents on the 4th of July, again :roll:
2006- Boston I
2008- Boston I+II
2009- Toronto, Philly III+IV
2010- Bristow, Hartford, Boston, Newark
Yeah, this sort of stuff is putting a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I get the need to manage copyright material, but come on boys. While you are trying to reinvent how it is you distribute your music, you need to consider how the fanbase furthers your cause. I have defended a lot of things to do with PJ, but name calling and micro managing isn't something I'm fond of. For the first time in my long, long time following this band, I have a bad taste in my mouth and I don't like it. I'm hoping there was some miscommunication going on, but it seems like this is par for the recent course.
I agree with this word for word. And don't anyone say "if you don't like it, leave". I have to sit through Ed talk about whatever the fuck he wants to in between songs and I don't complain. I listen to him advocate for felons, I listen to his rants about the war, I even listen to goddamn bushleaguer, so they should turn around and listen to the fans for once. I guess we'll open our Christmas presents on the 4th of July, again :roll:
I get a bad taste in my mouth when 10c people attack fans.. PJ have become a business way before anything to do with music.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
IMO Pearl Jam doesn't owe her anything. Cry me a river!
I'd be pissed if I was trying my best to keep everything under wraps and some piss ant took her little MacBook Air and wrote all about it. Much less, STEAL and promote a song that isn't released yet.
Don't give this blogger the time of day. I sure don't
if someone at the 10c was THAT rude to you it wouldn't bother you? I d/l that leak also as well as many other around here. Whoever it was at 10c went too far I feel.
I'm sure that isn't the first blogger they have had to deal with. Aren't you pissed that someone stole from the band? To me, this is the issue that should piss all you LOYAL fans off.
Straight down the center for a hot chicken dinner!
IMO Pearl Jam doesn't owe her anything. Cry me a river!
I'd be pissed if I was trying my best to keep everything under wraps and some piss ant took her little MacBook Air and wrote all about it. Much less, STEAL and promote a song that isn't released yet.
Don't give this blogger the time of day. I sure don't
if someone at the 10c was THAT rude to you it wouldn't bother you? I d/l that leak also as well as many other around here. Whoever it was at 10c went too far I feel.
I'm sure that isn't the first blogger they have had to deal with. Aren't you pissed that someone stole from the band? To me, this is the issue that should piss all you LOYAL fans off.
Yeah true to a point - but no one is going to profit from that shitty recording and PJ aren't going to lose money from that recording. if it was official quality than maybe.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Bands, any bands don't make music for their fans. They make their Art and Music because they enjoy doing it. Fans come and they go. Why should PJ give a rats ass what the fans want?
It's like if I owned a bar and there was a new way to sell tap beer and I just did it. It's the same product, just a different way of getting it there. Did I consult my customers?? hell no, it was better for me and my business. Does the customer care?? nope, they are still drunk off my product.
They work their asses off to put out something new, they tour, solo tour, give pre-order tickets to fan club. Do they have to do these things? Hell no. But they do.
Straight down the center for a hot chicken dinner!
Yeah true to a point - but no one is going to profit from that shitty recording and PJ aren't going to lose money from that recording. if it was official quality than maybe.
Awww, but you are quickly forgetting that I could go out tomorrow and create a song just like it and patent it before they do. extreme example, but it could happen.
Straight down the center for a hot chicken dinner!
my take on all of this...
We are fans. That's all we are. We like the music, so we buy it... or, at least, we SHOULD buy it. And yes, the musician needs the fan in order to keep from having to go back to his day job.
But... we are not entitled to anything other than what we pay for, right? What makes us that special? Nothing.
Just because we buy CDs or concert tickets or fan club subscriptions doesn't mean we are part owners in the band. We are customers... just like the way we are customers at the 'In and Out Burger'. I give them money.. they give me a burger, fries and a coke. I don't think I deserve to take a bite out of a burger or grab a handful of fries because I have bought several burgers in the past... i just buy it because... well, I happen to like the 'In and Out Burgers'. They run a business and just because i go there a lot... it doesn't mean they owe me anything other that what they have offered for sale.
...
Anyway... I think as fans... too many of us feel like we should be treated special... that whole, 'The band depends on us for their livlihood, man... without us... they'd be nothing' thing is silly and selfish. Without that type of fan, Pearl Jam would STILL be in business. Why? Because of the music... and the GREAT Live performances. And if you are one of those fans that don't like Pearl Jam of today because they are not the Pearl Jam of yesterday (that didn't handle the business aspect of being a band because the Sony Corporation was taking care of that) then, I feel bad for you. You can go if you like... just like you can not go to the In And Out anymore. You are a consumer... you already got what you paid for.
...
and... as a footnote.. RESPECT works both ways. Yeah, calling it a Shitty Blog is disrespectful... but, so is going out and crying to anyone who would listen because you were told you couldn't do something. You earn respect... it is not automatically granted... if it is granted freely... it ain't worth having.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You make a great point in that they owe her some sort of exclusive. Much of the hardcore fan base's rabidness (and 10C or PJ can't afford to be alienating any of their fan base at this point) stems from the fact that the band and the 10C have been so tight lipped on EVERYTHING. If we got information from them, no matter how vague or trite, instead of having to hunt it down and be told from 3rd, 4th or 5th party sources, or were given a heads up as in "hey guys, album news in a couple of weeks!", there would not be such a furvor created or would the rumors get wild and out of hand quickly. PJ and 10C have the right to protect their product, but they need to realize they feed into their problem as much as anyone. I think that's why some fans think, perhaps correctly, that they band is more interested in keeping Target happy rather than the fans at this point.
This is basically it. Things have become so secretive and controlling, rather than open and transparent, that basically TC has asked for this kind of retribution from the fans. All we want is to know what's up with the band. We get nothing and then this happens to a fan blogger. Will the lesson be learned?
my take on all of this...
We are fans. That's all we are. We like the music, so we buy it... or, at least, we SHOULD buy it. And yes, the musician needs the fan in order to keep from having to go back to his day job.
But... we are not entitled to anything other than what we pay for, right? What makes us that special? Nothing.
Just because we buy CDs or concert tickets or fan club subscriptions doesn't mean we are part owners in the band. We are customers... just like the way we are customers at the 'In and Out Burger'. I give them money.. they give me a burger, fries and a coke. I don't think I deserve to take a bite out of a burger or grab a handful of fries because I have bought several burgers in the past... i just buy it because... well, I happen to like the 'In and Out Burgers'. They run a business and just because i go there a lot... it doesn't mean they owe me anything other that what they have offered for sale.
...
Anyway... I think as fans... too many of us feel like we should be treated special... that whole, 'The band depends on us for their livlihood, man... without us... they'd be nothing' thing is silly and selfish. Without that type of fan, Pearl Jam would STILL be in business. Why? Because of the music... and the GREAT Live performances. And if you are one of those fans that don't like Pearl Jam of today because they are not the Pearl Jam of yesterday (that didn't handle the business aspect of being a band because the Sony Corporation was taking care of that) then, I feel bad for you. You can go if you like... just like you can not go to the In And Out anymore. You are a consumer... you already got what you paid for.
...
and... as a footnote.. RESPECT works both ways. Yeah, calling it a Shitty Blog is disrespectful... but, so is going out and crying to anyone who would listen because you were told you couldn't do something. You earn respect... it is not automatically granted... if it is granted freely... it ain't worth having.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Bands, any bands don't make music for their fans. They make their Art and Music because they enjoy doing it. Fans come and they go. Why should PJ give a rats ass what the fans want?
It's like if I owned a bar and there was a new way to sell tap beer and I just did it. It's the same product, just a different way of getting it there. Did I consult my customers?? hell no, it was better for me and my business. Does the customer care?? nope, they are still drunk off my product.
They work their asses off to put out something new, they tour, solo tour, give pre-order tickets to fan club. Do they have to do these things? Hell no. But they do.
...
I agree. A person who creates art... whether visual or audio... should NEVER cater to the likings of the fans. They should create what they feel... what they experience... and WHO they are. Catering to the fans is what the Pop Stars do... which is the reason why Pop Music is so shitty.
If the music is good.. the fans will listen. Art is subjective... if the subject viewing it or listening to it isn't moved by it... it does not change the art, itself.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
When they demanded that the first 2 mp3's be yanked immediately... don't you think twice about putting up a 3rd?
These weren't just ordinary mp3s. These were live recordings converted into an mp3, which was encouraged in the old generation of tape trading.
Instead Target, Rock Band, and other bullshit corporations shove the remaining hard-core fans out of the way.
I'm on Heather's side.
This was my comment on Heather's AWESOME blog:
Heather,
"I am saddened to hear Pearl Jam taking big business’ side over the fans. I too am having difficulties with them right now but on a much smaller scale.
My problem lies within fan club seating. My membership expires in three days. I’ll be seeing Eddie in 18 days in Memphis. Call me a crybaby, call me whatever, but if my seats are not in the first 1/3 of the concert hall I will not be renewing my membership. If I’m seated anywhere else I refuse to believe there are that many Ten Club fans who have lower numbers than I, and are at the same show as me, especially at such a small venue.
Stand up for what you think is right, and if they become corporate sellouts as it’s suspected, we’ll walk hand in hand away from the mess because we know better."
Seating isn't by senority. Consider yourself lucky you're even in the building through 10c for the non-PJ show.
I would like to say a few things on this subject....I do understand and accept that, Pearl Jam as a business, has a right to do with their art as they will...I haven't an ounce of knowledge on what goes into protecting your work or what it takes to send it to the masses. Sounds as though it's a daunting task. As someone who touches on creative things...if my artistic endeavors were passed around without my knowledge...I'd be a bit ANGRY to say the least...
Also...regardless of your position in Public Relations or not...when the pressure comes down on you...I am sure it might make it a little bit easier to crack. Can anyone say they've never said something they wish they could take back? I know I have...and there were many instances over the past three days...I can not back space over them...I can only imagine the kind of stress the band and it's whole company have been under over the past few days. For my part in upsetting them...I am utterly sorry...and I hope I have not lost the respect and love that the band gives...These people are a big part of my life and have been since 1991 or 1992...I can't remember, I am getting old ...I feel as though I've hurt a very good friend and they may never forgive me... this breaks my heart tremendously...
THIS
Straight down the center for a hot chicken dinner!
Bands, any bands don't make music for their fans. They make their Art and Music because they enjoy doing it. Fans come and they go. Why should PJ give a rats ass what the fans want?
It's like if I owned a bar and there was a new way to sell tap beer and I just did it. It's the same product, just a different way of getting it there. Did I consult my customers?? hell no, it was better for me and my business. Does the customer care?? nope, they are still drunk off my product.
They work their asses off to put out something new, they tour, solo tour, give pre-order tickets to fan club. Do they have to do these things? Hell no. But they do.
...
I agree. A person who creates art... whether visual or audio... should NEVER cater to the likings of the fans. They should create what they feel... what they experience... and WHO they are. Catering to the fans is what the Pop Stars do... which is the reason why Pop Music is so shitty.
If the music is good.. the fans will listen. Art is subjective... if the subject viewing it or listening to it isn't moved by it... it does not change the art, itself.
Just look at U2 as an example for catering to the fans.
Post edited by ARazorbackguy1 on
Straight down the center for a hot chicken dinner!
When they demanded that the first 2 mp3's be yanked immediately... don't you think twice about putting up a 3rd?
These weren't just ordinary mp3s. These were live recordings converted into an mp3, which was encouraged in the old generation of tape trading.
Instead Target, Rock Band, and other bullshit corporations shove the remaining hard-core fans out of the way.
I'm on Heather's side.
This was my comment on Heather's AWESOME blog:
Heather,
"I am saddened to hear Pearl Jam taking big business’ side over the fans. I too am having difficulties with them right now but on a much smaller scale.
My problem lies within fan club seating. My membership expires in three days. I’ll be seeing Eddie in 18 days in Memphis. Call me a crybaby, call me whatever, but if my seats are not in the first 1/3 of the concert hall I will not be renewing my membership. If I’m seated anywhere else I refuse to believe there are that many Ten Club fans who have lower numbers than I, and are at the same show as me, especially at such a small venue.
Stand up for what you think is right, and if they become corporate sellouts as it’s suspected, we’ll walk hand in hand away from the mess because we know better."
Good, now I can move up one seat for the next PJ Show. Move along
Straight down the center for a hot chicken dinner!
I still think alot of people around here suffer from a sense of ENTITLEMENT
I am not taking anyones side on this one either way, but to some of the things that have been said, this has and always will be a problem. Too many people that come here or buy their product feel that they are owed something. We as fans has become so entangled in the "My band" "our band" mentality that they forget, at the end of the day it is and always will be a business. Yes, PJ has fought the good fight for us many times and tried to do the best they can in several arenas. Some have been great, and some have failed. They continually strive (imho) listen to what we have to say, improve on what they have done, and still in some ways they will always fail because there is no way they can please us all no matter their intentions. If Tim(and we are assuming this at this point I believe) loses it now and again(what is it 2 times now) I can see his point as well and forgive him. He is protecting his friends at the end of the day, right wrong or indifferent. We as fans also tend to jump on the band and each other way too easily without thinking sometimes(Heather..who I can see where she is coming from to a point as well), and we are called out on it as well by policing ourselves to a point, but again with the 1000's of negative comments coming out I get why it happens now and again. People snap.
I dont care what anyone says, again, my opinion. I think at the end of the day, they still have us as fans as a top priority, and while it may not always be the first thing on their minds, you have to look out for number one first, number one being themselves. If they feel that this is the best way to go for them and us, I trust them because at the end of the day, does it REALLY matter? flame on...have a good night...:-)
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
I still think alot of people around here suffer from a sense of ENTITLEMENT
I am not taking anyones side on this one either way, but to some of the things that have been said, this has and always will be a problem. Too many people that come here or buy their product feel that they are owed something. We as fans has become so entangled in the "My band" "our band" mentality that they forget, at the end of the day it is and always will be a business. Yes, PJ has fought the good fight for us many times and tried to do the best they can in several arenas. Some have been great, and some have failed. They continually strive (imho) listen to what we have to say, improve on what they have done, and still in some ways they will always fail because there is no way they can please us all no matter their intentions. If Tim(and we are assuming this at this point I believe) loses it now and again(what is it 2 times now) I can see his point as well and forgive him. He is protecting his friends at the end of the day, right wrong or indifferent. We as fans also tend to jump on the band and each other way too easily without thinking sometimes(Heather..who I can see where she is coming from to a point as well), and we are called out on it as well by policing ourselves to a point, but again with the 1000's of negative comments coming out I get why it happens now and again. People snap.
I dont care what anyone says, again, my opinion. I think at the end of the day, they still have us as fans as a top priority, and while it may not always be the first thing on their minds, you have to look out for number one first, number one being themselves. If they feel that this is the best way to go for them and us, I trust them because at the end of the day, does it REALLY matter? flame on...have a good night...:-)
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Bands, any bands don't make music for their fans. They make their Art and Music because they enjoy doing it. Fans come and they go. Why should PJ give a rats ass what the fans want?
It's like if I owned a bar and there was a new way to sell tap beer and I just did it. It's the same product, just a different way of getting it there. Did I consult my customers?? hell no, it was better for me and my business. Does the customer care?? nope, they are still drunk off my product.
They work their asses off to put out something new, they tour, solo tour, give pre-order tickets to fan club. Do they have to do these things? Hell no. But they do.
You and Cosmo need to take some business courses to understand the relationship between the business and the customer. There's a HUGE relationship between the two, and without the customer, there is no business at all. How do you expect to make money if no one likes what you're selling? It's a give and take, supply and demand, balance that makes or breaks your business. There's that saying "the customer is always right". Now, I'm not trying to relate that to the music industry, but that saying is what keeps a company in business. The fans make the band profitable. End of story, as there's a huge relationship of balancing each other out. No us? No YOU. And I'm not saying that out of entitlement (because I'm certainly not for that), I'm saying that because it's the truth.
Bands, any bands don't make music for their fans. They make their Art and Music because they enjoy doing it. Fans come and they go. Why should PJ give a rats ass what the fans want?
It's like if I owned a bar and there was a new way to sell tap beer and I just did it. It's the same product, just a different way of getting it there. Did I consult my customers?? hell no, it was better for me and my business. Does the customer care?? nope, they are still drunk off my product.
They work their asses off to put out something new, they tour, solo tour, give pre-order tickets to fan club. Do they have to do these things? Hell no. But they do.
You and Cosmo need to take some business courses to understand the relationship between the business and the customer. There's a HUGE relationship between the two, and without the customer, there is no business at all. How do you expect to make money if no one likes what you're selling? It's a give and take, supply and demand, balance that makes or breaks your business. There's that saying "the customer is always right". Now, I'm not trying to relate that to the music industry, but that saying is what keeps a company in business. The fans make the band profitable. End of story, as there's a huge relationship of balancing each other out. No us? No YOU. And I'm not saying that out of entitlement (because I'm certainly not for that), I'm saying that because it's the truth.
Again...Not trying to ruffle feathers, this is MY OPINION..I deal with customers EVERYDAY and while the saying you speak of is a stronghold on a lot of business, I have had to FIRE customers on more than one occasion. Even though they are the people who keep you in business, they too can cross a line to a point where it is not in your best interest to continue to sell them. Sometimes I think abuse can go too far, but it does go both ways. A certain amount of RESPECT is needed on both sides, and in our case, I think we as fans cross that line all too often. :-)
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
Again...Not trying to ruffle feathers, this is MY OPINION..I deal with customers EVERYDAY and while the saying you speak of is a stronghold on a lot of business, I have had to FIRE customers on more than one occasion. Even though they are the people who keep you in business, they too can cross a line to a point where it is not in your best interest to continue to sell them. Sometimes I think abuse can go too far, but it does go both ways. A certain amount of RESPECT is needed on both sides, and in our case, I think we as fans cross that line all too often. :-)
and... as a footnote.. RESPECT works both ways. Yeah, calling it a Shitty Blog is disrespectful... but, so is going out and crying to anyone who would listen because you were told you couldn't do something. You earn respect... it is not automatically granted... if it is granted freely... it ain't worth having.
Yes, that respect goes both ways. I've lost respect in the band that inspired me to stand up, speak out, be true to myself, don't buy into the corporate world and greed, think for myself, help out my neighbor, be a good person, and be good to the planet. Because they've done a 180 and are now on the other side of that fence.
and... as a footnote.. RESPECT works both ways. Yeah, calling it a Shitty Blog is disrespectful... but, so is going out and crying to anyone who would listen because you were told you couldn't do something. You earn respect... it is not automatically granted... if it is granted freely... it ain't worth having.
Yes, that respect goes both ways. I've lost respect in the band that inspired me to stand up, speak out, be true to myself, don't buy into the corporate world and greed, think for myself, help out my neighbor, be a good person, and be good to the planet. Because they've done a 180 and are now on the other side of that fence.
they always were on the other side of the fence. Name me any band that isn't in it for the money. Hell even bands like fugazi and the ramones were in it to make money. I just feel bad for people like you that bought into the act of pj being anti-corporate band.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
and... as a footnote.. RESPECT works both ways. Yeah, calling it a Shitty Blog is disrespectful... but, so is going out and crying to anyone who would listen because you were told you couldn't do something. You earn respect... it is not automatically granted... if it is granted freely... it ain't worth having.
Yes, that respect goes both ways. I've lost respect in the band that inspired me to stand up, speak out, be true to myself, don't buy into the corporate world and greed, think for myself, help out my neighbor, be a good person, and be good to the planet. Because they've done a 180 and are now on the other side of that fence.
they always were on the other side of the fence. Name me any band that isn't in it for the money. Hell even bands like fugazi and the ramones were in it to make money. I just feel bad for people like you that bought into the act of pj being anti-corporate band.
Don't try and patronize me, dude. Let's see, No Code, Yield, Binaural, Riot Act...Those albums weren't with any multiple "singles", the band weren't playing to the masses or to be commercial, and didn't sell millions because that was not the objective of those albums. Ring a bell?
so what you're saying is that ed and the boys have been misleading us over the years?
yup I am. Weather it be letterman or anything else its bout promoation and making money. If this band really cared bout therew values then why be with a major label for all these year. I see no problem with them being partners target its what's best for them and there families, now that they have no one to kiss ass to.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I think all of this is just silliness, from both sides.
Pearl Jam management completely has their head up their asses, and completely doesn't get how to deal with leaks and the internet in 2009. First of all, they need a reality check. None of this shit matters. Anyone who is going to go out of their way to listen to twenty seconds of poorly recorded audio is a big fan, and is a lock to buy the album. Leaks only fuel the excitement for those people, the rest of the world doesn't give a shit and will make their decision on whether to buy the album based on the upcoming media blitz or a song on the radio, etc.
So why spend money paying attorneys to get this stuff taken down? The sales won't be affected in any way. It sucks for PJ that they weren't able to contain the leak, but it's 2009. It's out there. Once it's out, it's out. They are wasting money and resources trying to fight it, and only making people MORE interested in hearing some shitty 20 second audio clip by their actions. With the added bonus that they are alienating some of their hardcore fans. They need to learn to roll with these punches and act accordingly. There is a way to embrace this kind of stuff. They need to find it.
As for this blogger, you got caught posting stuff that hasn't been released yet. Take it down and move on. No need to make a federal case. Pearl Jam's gripe in this is legitimate, even though they are shortsighted, behind the times, and apparently short tempered.
Don't try and patronize me, dude. Let's see, No Code, Yield, Binaural, Riot Act...Those albums weren't with any multiple "singles", the band weren't playing to the masses or to be commercial, and didn't sell millions because that was not the objective of those albums. Ring a bell?
yea they do ring a bell. but does letterman all these years ring a bell and the yield commercial or the radio push they got with i am mine or the 72 bootlegs for the 00 tour that sold millions of dollarss or the 03 tour that sold millions of dollars. does all that ring a bell. oh and don't ever tell me what do, cause i'm sure as fuck ain't gonna listen to someone like you and others who fell for the pj act all these years,
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
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Also...regardless of your position in Public Relations or not...when the pressure comes down on you...I am sure it might make it a little bit easier to crack. Can anyone say they've never said something they wish they could take back? I know I have...and there were many instances over the past three days...I can not back space over them...I can only imagine the kind of stress the band and it's whole company have been under over the past few days. For my part in upsetting them...I am utterly sorry...and I hope I have not lost the respect and love that the band gives...These people are a big part of my life and have been since 1991 or 1992...I can't remember, I am getting old
I love her blog also and she makes A LOT of good points here... You could almost say I agree.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I agree with this word for word. And don't anyone say "if you don't like it, leave". I have to sit through Ed talk about whatever the fuck he wants to in between songs and I don't complain. I listen to him advocate for felons, I listen to his rants about the war, I even listen to goddamn bushleaguer, so they should turn around and listen to the fans for once. I guess we'll open our Christmas presents on the 4th of July, again :roll:
2008- Boston I+II
2009- Toronto, Philly III+IV
2010- Bristow, Hartford, Boston, Newark
I get a bad taste in my mouth when 10c people attack fans.. PJ have become a business way before anything to do with music.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I'm sure that isn't the first blogger they have had to deal with. Aren't you pissed that someone stole from the band? To me, this is the issue that should piss all you LOYAL fans off.
Yeah true to a point - but no one is going to profit from that shitty recording and PJ aren't going to lose money from that recording. if it was official quality than maybe.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
It's like if I owned a bar and there was a new way to sell tap beer and I just did it. It's the same product, just a different way of getting it there. Did I consult my customers?? hell no, it was better for me and my business. Does the customer care?? nope, they are still drunk off my product.
They work their asses off to put out something new, they tour, solo tour, give pre-order tickets to fan club. Do they have to do these things? Hell no. But they do.
Awww, but you are quickly forgetting that I could go out tomorrow and create a song just like it and patent it before they do. extreme example, but it could happen.
We are fans. That's all we are. We like the music, so we buy it... or, at least, we SHOULD buy it. And yes, the musician needs the fan in order to keep from having to go back to his day job.
But... we are not entitled to anything other than what we pay for, right? What makes us that special? Nothing.
Just because we buy CDs or concert tickets or fan club subscriptions doesn't mean we are part owners in the band. We are customers... just like the way we are customers at the 'In and Out Burger'. I give them money.. they give me a burger, fries and a coke. I don't think I deserve to take a bite out of a burger or grab a handful of fries because I have bought several burgers in the past... i just buy it because... well, I happen to like the 'In and Out Burgers'. They run a business and just because i go there a lot... it doesn't mean they owe me anything other that what they have offered for sale.
...
Anyway... I think as fans... too many of us feel like we should be treated special... that whole, 'The band depends on us for their livlihood, man... without us... they'd be nothing' thing is silly and selfish. Without that type of fan, Pearl Jam would STILL be in business. Why? Because of the music... and the GREAT Live performances. And if you are one of those fans that don't like Pearl Jam of today because they are not the Pearl Jam of yesterday (that didn't handle the business aspect of being a band because the Sony Corporation was taking care of that) then, I feel bad for you. You can go if you like... just like you can not go to the In And Out anymore. You are a consumer... you already got what you paid for.
...
and... as a footnote.. RESPECT works both ways. Yeah, calling it a Shitty Blog is disrespectful... but, so is going out and crying to anyone who would listen because you were told you couldn't do something. You earn respect... it is not automatically granted... if it is granted freely... it ain't worth having.
Hail, Hail!!!
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I agree. A person who creates art... whether visual or audio... should NEVER cater to the likings of the fans. They should create what they feel... what they experience... and WHO they are. Catering to the fans is what the Pop Stars do... which is the reason why Pop Music is so shitty.
If the music is good.. the fans will listen. Art is subjective... if the subject viewing it or listening to it isn't moved by it... it does not change the art, itself.
Hail, Hail!!!
Seating isn't by senority. Consider yourself lucky you're even in the building through 10c for the non-PJ show.
THIS
Just look at U2 as an example for catering to the fans.
Good, now I can move up one seat for the next PJ Show. Move along
I am not taking anyones side on this one either way, but to some of the things that have been said, this has and always will be a problem. Too many people that come here or buy their product feel that they are owed something. We as fans has become so entangled in the "My band" "our band" mentality that they forget, at the end of the day it is and always will be a business. Yes, PJ has fought the good fight for us many times and tried to do the best they can in several arenas. Some have been great, and some have failed. They continually strive (imho) listen to what we have to say, improve on what they have done, and still in some ways they will always fail because there is no way they can please us all no matter their intentions. If Tim(and we are assuming this at this point I believe) loses it now and again(what is it 2 times now) I can see his point as well and forgive him. He is protecting his friends at the end of the day, right wrong or indifferent. We as fans also tend to jump on the band and each other way too easily without thinking sometimes(Heather..who I can see where she is coming from to a point as well), and we are called out on it as well by policing ourselves to a point, but again with the 1000's of negative comments coming out I get why it happens now and again. People snap.
I dont care what anyone says, again, my opinion. I think at the end of the day, they still have us as fans as a top priority, and while it may not always be the first thing on their minds, you have to look out for number one first, number one being themselves. If they feel that this is the best way to go for them and us, I trust them because at the end of the day, does it REALLY matter? flame on...have a good night...:-)
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
You and Cosmo need to take some business courses to understand the relationship between the business and the customer. There's a HUGE relationship between the two, and without the customer, there is no business at all. How do you expect to make money if no one likes what you're selling? It's a give and take, supply and demand, balance that makes or breaks your business. There's that saying "the customer is always right". Now, I'm not trying to relate that to the music industry, but that saying is what keeps a company in business. The fans make the band profitable. End of story, as there's a huge relationship of balancing each other out. No us? No YOU. And I'm not saying that out of entitlement (because I'm certainly not for that), I'm saying that because it's the truth.
Again...Not trying to ruffle feathers, this is MY OPINION..I deal with customers EVERYDAY and while the saying you speak of is a stronghold on a lot of business, I have had to FIRE customers on more than one occasion. Even though they are the people who keep you in business, they too can cross a line to a point where it is not in your best interest to continue to sell them. Sometimes I think abuse can go too far, but it does go both ways. A certain amount of RESPECT is needed on both sides, and in our case, I think we as fans cross that line all too often. :-)
"Free Shipping" SPEEDY MCCREADY
My friend was going to see Eddie last night. Since he was in Vegas, I gave him 5 Grand to gamble with. I told him I wanted it all to go on Black. Bastard! PhillyCrownOfThorns-11-2-12
very smart man right here
you're a star now, girl. enjoy your 15 minutes of pearl jam message board notoriety.
don't forget to tear your eyes it on youtube and blame it on the tenclub.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Pearl Jam management completely has their head up their asses, and completely doesn't get how to deal with leaks and the internet in 2009. First of all, they need a reality check. None of this shit matters. Anyone who is going to go out of their way to listen to twenty seconds of poorly recorded audio is a big fan, and is a lock to buy the album. Leaks only fuel the excitement for those people, the rest of the world doesn't give a shit and will make their decision on whether to buy the album based on the upcoming media blitz or a song on the radio, etc.
So why spend money paying attorneys to get this stuff taken down? The sales won't be affected in any way. It sucks for PJ that they weren't able to contain the leak, but it's 2009. It's out there. Once it's out, it's out. They are wasting money and resources trying to fight it, and only making people MORE interested in hearing some shitty 20 second audio clip by their actions. With the added bonus that they are alienating some of their hardcore fans. They need to learn to roll with these punches and act accordingly. There is a way to embrace this kind of stuff. They need to find it.
As for this blogger, you got caught posting stuff that hasn't been released yet. Take it down and move on. No need to make a federal case. Pearl Jam's gripe in this is legitimate, even though they are shortsighted, behind the times, and apparently short tempered.
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